Really, when you think about it, our troops suck.

[Bill]

They've got the most money, the best weapons, armored vehicles and equipment out of science fiction, and the most costly and intensive training of any military that has ever existed.

But they can't kill the right iraqis.

So a comparitively small guerilla force operates with impunity and leads them around by the nose.

Kinda embarrassing, when you think about it.

[stefan segal]

Bill...I'm surprised at your assessment.

I'm not one to blindly wave the flag...in fact I am terrifically ashamed of our country and growing moreso every day (I listened to the Iranian UN response and feel "we've" been out manuevered in the eyes of the world and mine too). but when fighting an unidentified opponet who doesn't even bother to pull on a ski mask, it gets difficult to figure where to point these wonderful weapons.

There's a couple of other things fucking up a decent fight...one is, although when pressed, the Islam types can put together a very reasonable and cultured seeming rational for thier actions, allthough I deduce from their actions, that there must also exist a strain of insanity along with their powers of reason.

To wit: A second year college engineer with excellen grades and a fine future, having a wealthy family and living in privelged circumstances, is accosted by his cousin who asks/tells him to strap on a dynamite vest to blow up some Jews...tells him to take his time and think it over...the student thinks it over, straps on the vest and blows himself away...I assume he was hot for those seventy-odd virgins...you remember how it was when we were kids.

My point being that there is no profiling of enemy combatants...no age or sex limits on who will kill you...and if you add to this IED's penetrating power and how many vehicles on hand that can survive such a hit...coupled with each man's vested interest in not taking a chance on killing children, women, camels and goats...pissing on olive trees...as the whole world is up the soldier's ass these days, then with this in mind, I think you should give them high marks for dealing with all this shit.

Hell...I give them high marks for not stuffing butch's plastic turkey with a shit-seeking short fused IED. could have save the world and us a world of trouble.

In fact I would feel so moved by the "accident" that I would push to personaly deliver his eulogy...just thinking about it makes me tremble with a rush of patriotism...or is that laughter....whatever.

[exarmyranger]

...you remember how it was when we were kids.As for me Stefan not really.

My point being that there is no profiling of enemy combatants...no age or sex limits on who will kill you... not taking a chance on killing children, women, camels and goats...pissing on olive trees...as the whole world is up the soldier's ass these days, then with this in mind, I think you should give them high marks for dealing with all this shit. HooRah!

Hell...I give them high marks for not stuffing butch's plastic turkey with a shit-seeking short fused IED. I'd give em higher marks if they did do a "Boob Job" on the Bird...

In fact I would feel so moved by the "accident" that I would push to personaly deliver his eulogy...just thinking about it makes me tremble with a rush of patriotism...or is that laughter....whatever.[/QUOTE]Me to,I penned a short inscription for the Headstone;Here Rest's a Man Full of Truth...because it sure never came out of his mouth! t/c ex

[Bill]

I'm just sayin', isn't the lesson here, that the military talks a big game, but when push comes to shove, it can't get the job done?

All over this planet military people are looking at this war, and thinking, "Aha, so that's their weakness...".

We had to give the afghanis hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stingers and recoilless rifles and other gear before they fought the russians to a standstill.

The iraqis get their aid as small donations smuggled over the border from saudi shopkeepers, make their own bombs, and use the old guns and munitions we left laying all over iraq after the invasion.

And they're fighting our troops to a standstill. It doesn't look good. Americans might not have enough sense to see this, but the rest of the world sure does.

[stefan segal]

Bill...I don't argue that we're making a bad showing there...but I am separating apple from oranges...the captains aren't running this war...and add to that that there's no way to win such a war.

I was spealing of the boots on patrol...it seems you were commenting on our AWOL (missed that class) warrior in chief.

Stefan

[Linkster]

Bill - the situation is exactly the same as it was in Vietnam - there are no "marching orders" that the generals can give their men and women - so they just do the best they can to present an appearance of being there and fighting
When you have no "established goals" its impossible to draw up any battle plans let alone fight anyone - at least in vietnam commanders on the ground took the initiative and just blew away anyone that looked the wrong way - with this one they are too scared for their jobs and afraid they will be locked up for doing anything at all.
The patrols you see on tv are done to show that they are "in control" but even that is obviously not working

[Bill]

What if Iraq WAS a real war, and not a fake war to steal a weak little countries oil?

What if Iraq was really fighting us, rather than fighting each other?

What if they really had help, say from China, who also wanted their oil, giving them modern weapons and money? (like we did in afghanistan with the russians)

Pretty much our guys just drive thru in armor, or walk thru in armor, jerking off, axccomplishing nothing.

Iraqis are just waiting for us to get out of the way.

There's a huge gap here, between what we say we can do. and what the evidence on the ground shows we can do.

Sure, this time the war was stupid at it's root, started by incompentents who can't even knock over a defenseless little country and bring home it's loot.

But if it was real, I'm not seeing much sign things would go any better.

If you hire some carpenters to build you a garden shed, and the garden shed never gets built, but the money is gone, do you say, "Dang, those carpenters sure are nice guys.".

Or do you say, "I got screwed, those carpenters suck.".

[Bill]

Linkster, I know you know we DO have a clear cut goal for Iraq.

Just not one that the people in charge of this country will speak out loud.

Still, every single officer knows what it is.

Permanent occupation of our new slave country, in our giant brand new state-of-the-art bases, permanent basing of a regionwide middle east occupying force, and control of the oil.

It's a simple, straightforward, clearcut military objective. All the officers know it.

There's no confusion.

Our guys just don't seem to be very good at the job they've been given.

[Kinky Jones]

it just goes to show that the "America is the best at everything" propoganda is bullshit... isn't it ironic that Iraqi officials were saying "we are gonna draw you into a trap and the sands of our homeland will run red with American blood" has come true and that EVERY FUCKING THING dumbya's cabinet and the republicans have said has been COMPLETELY FUCKIN WRONG? and the saddest part is that the pro-war sheep are too stupid to figure out that they should be more pissed than anyone at the way the war has been run, it has made us the laughing stock to the rest of the world

what was that Iraqi information offical called? Baghdad Bob? everybody laughed and made fun of him but all the stuff he said came true or is coming true

[exarmyranger]

Bill - the situation is exactly the same as it was in Vietnam - there are no "marching orders" that the generals can give their men and women - so they just do the best they can to present an appearance of being there and fighting
When you have no "established goals" its impossible to draw up any battle plans let alone fight anyone - at least in vietnam commanders on the ground took the initiative and just blew away anyone that looked the wrong way - with this one they are too scared for their jobs and afraid they will be locked up for doing anything at all.
The patrols you see on tv are done to show that they are "in control" but even that is obviously not working

"Shit,LT.sir somebody popped a couple off in the air,to get thier attention so the terp could talk...tell-em we only wanna know last time Charlie came thru...ya-know... and I don't know sir...somebody got spooked,I guess. "Yeah okay Sgt.stack-em up...,I do'nt suppose there are any survi...I did'nt think so.Give me your B.C. burn-it and boggie your ass outta here!" HOORAH! True nuff Linkster I Copy...ex