Two Tibetan monks set themselves on fire in China:

[Bill Cosby]

BEIJING (Reuters) - Two young Tibetan monks set themselves on fire to protest against government religious controls in western China on Monday, two exiled Tibetan sources said, the third such protest this year that could spark fresh tension in the unstable region.

The 18-year-old monks, Kelsang and Kunchak, belong to the Kirti monastery -- a major site of protest against Chinese policies and the scene of a harsh crackdown by security forces in May -- one India-based exiled Tibetan activist, told Reuters.

The monks' self-immolations could lead to a renewed crackdown in Aba prefecture, a heavily ethnic Tibetan part of Sichuan province that many advocates of self-rule say should form part of a larger homeland under Tibetan control.

"When they set themselves on fire, they shouted: 'We need freedom of religion,'" said the activist, who asked not to be identified, adding that he obtained his information from at least five sources in China and overseas.

Both monks immolated themselves at 10 a.m. local time (0200GMT) on Monday, he said.

The two monks suffered slight burns and were in stable condition, state news agency Xinhua said, citing doctors. The report added that "the suicide attempt is under further investigation."

When asked about the self-immolations, Hu Jiang, an official from the Aba prefecture information office, told Reuters: "I don't know anything about it, I'm not quite clear."



Calls to the police bureau in Aba prefecture went unanswered.

A Tibetan monk, Kanyag Tsering, from the sister Kirti monastery in the Indian town of Dharamsala, where Tibet's government-in-exile is based, said he had received confirmation that the Chinese military removed the bodies of the two monks.

Tsering said he got his information from at least 10 different people inside the monastery and within Aba, including eyewitness accounts of the self-immolations.

Tsering said the two monks were heard shouting several slogans as they burned themselves, including: "Long live the Dalai Lama."

The self-immolations come just six months after another Tibetan Buddhist monk, Phuntsog, 21, from the same monastery, burned himself to death. [ID:nTOE72F08I]. Kelsang is related to Phuntsog.

China last month jailed three monks for their involvement in Phuntsog's self-immolation.

His death kicked off a harsh crackdown, with security forces detaining about 300 Tibetan monks for a month.

Monks from the Kirti monastery also participated in protests that gripped Tibet and Tibetan areas of China in March 2008, when Buddhist monks and other Tibetan loyal to their exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama confronted police and troops.

Beijing has repeatedly accused the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Dalai Lama of being a separatist who supports violence, charges he denies.

The Dalai Lama and China have argued lately about what should happen when he dies. Beijing says he has to reincarnate, but the Dalai Lama has questioned whether this tradition should continue.

"Like a has-been star, he fears the loss of popularity," the official Xinhua news agency wrote in a commentary. "In pursuit of fame and power, he has deviated from the commandments of Buddhism and used his religion as a subterfuge for his personal political motives."

"The Dalai Lama ... should seriously follow the teachings of Sakyamuni, the founder of Buddhism, and seek the dharma that will liberate him from the rotation of life and death," it added.

(Additional reporting by Sabrina Mao, Editing by Ben Blanchard and Sugita Katyal)

Two Tibetan monks set themselves on fire in China: sources

Sui-Lee Wee
Reuters US Online Report World News

Sep 26, 2011 06:54 EDT

BEIJING (Reuters) - Two young Tibetan monks set themselves on fire to protest against government religious controls in western China on Monday, two exiled Tibetan sources said, the third such protest this year that could spark fresh tension in the unstable region.


The 18-year-old monks, Kelsang and Kunchak, belong to the Kirti monastery -- a major site of protest against Chinese policies and the scene of a harsh crackdown by security forces in May -- one India-based exiled Tibetan activist, told Reuters.

The monks' self-immolations could lead to a renewed crackdown in Aba prefecture, a heavily ethnic Tibetan part of Sichuan province that many advocates of self-rule say should form part of a larger homeland under Tibetan control.

"When they set themselves on fire, they shouted: 'We need freedom of religion,'" said the activist, who asked not to be identified, adding that he obtained his information from at least five sources in China and overseas.

Both monks immolated themselves at 10 a.m. local time (0200GMT) on Monday, he said.

The two monks suffered slight burns and were in stable condition, state news agency Xinhua said, citing doctors. The report added that "the suicide attempt is under further investigation."

When asked about the self-immolations, Hu Jiang, an official from the Aba prefecture information office, told Reuters: "I don't know anything about it, I'm not quite clear."

Calls to the police bureau in Aba prefecture went unanswered.

A Tibetan monk, Kanyag Tsering, from the sister Kirti monastery in the Indian town of Dharamsala, where Tibet's government-in-exile is based, said he had received confirmation that the Chinese military removed the bodies of the two monks.

Tsering said he got his information from at least 10 different people inside the monastery and within Aba, including eyewitness accounts of the self-immolations.

Tsering said the two monks were heard shouting several slogans as they burned themselves, including: "Long live the Dalai Lama."

The self-immolations come just six months after another Tibetan Buddhist monk, Phuntsog, 21, from the same monastery, burned himself to death. [ID:nTOE72F08I]. Kelsang is related to Phuntsog.

China last month jailed three monks for their involvement in Phuntsog's self-immolation.

His death kicked off a harsh crackdown, with security forces detaining about 300 Tibetan monks for a month.

Monks from the Kirti monastery also participated in protests that gripped Tibet and Tibetan areas of China in March 2008, when Buddhist monks and other Tibetan loyal to their exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama confronted police and troops.

Beijing has repeatedly accused the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Dalai Lama of being a separatist who supports violence, charges he denies.

The Dalai Lama and China have argued lately about what should happen when he dies. Beijing says he has to reincarnate, but the Dalai Lama has questioned whether this tradition should continue.

"Like a has-been star, he fears the loss of popularity," the official Xinhua news agency wrote in a commentary. "In pursuit of fame and power, he has deviated from the commandments of Buddhism and used his religion as a subterfuge for his personal political motives."

"The Dalai Lama ... should seriously follow the teachings of Sakyamuni, the founder of Buddhism, and seek the dharma that will liberate him from the rotation of life and death," it added.

(Additional reporting by Sabrina Mao, Editing by Ben Blanchard and Sugita Katyal)

Source: Reuters US Online Report World News

[CosmicRocker]

Beijing has repeatedly accused the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Dalai Lama of being a separatist who supports violence, charges he denies.

The Dalai Lama and China have argued lately about what should happen when he dies. Beijing says he has to reincarnate, but the Dalai Lama has questioned whether this tradition should continue.

"Like a has-been star, he fears the loss of popularity," the official Xinhua news agency wrote in a commentary. "In pursuit of fame and power, he has deviated from the commandments of Buddhism and used his religion as a subterfuge for his personal political motives

DAR is better able to speak to this, i had thought the Dalai Llama was a "perfected being" when born, he is essentially another living Buddha.

the rest of the crap is Chinese hegemony talk : deviation and such", Dalai Lama has called for autonomous rule, but not Independence for Tibet.

I'm gonna wait for DAR to comment , before i say anything else.

[Darmosiel]

The Dali Lama knew this would be a problem and the Chinese government will interfere with the process of discovery in selecting his incarnation. He has already chosen a successor upon his death but the Chinese have refused to accept His Holiness' choice in the matter.

Just my personal thoughts on this. A few years after the Dali Lama's death a group of carefully chosen will seek out His reincarnated self. The boy needs to be old enough to pick out certain items and answer some basic questions. Born about 10 months after the Dali Lama has died. About 3 years old while the previous life is still strong. A Bodhisattva takes an oath not to release from the death birth cycle but vows to return to help others. There is a process to determine this but being reborn as a baby and very vulnerable makes it very dangerous.

Until then someone else needs to stand in. About 15 years ago 5 children were chosen for various reasons from several countries and have been receiving training which one exactly is to be chosen I do not know. One was selected. I do not know if this is the person referred to in the article or not. I had heard it was a ruse to protect the real selection. But the person has been chosen many years ago without notoriety for obvious reasons.

http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Suc...China_999.html

[Darmosiel]

As for the monks attempt at bringing attention to what is going on in Tibet. It is terrible and has been for a long time ever since the Dali Lama fled to avoid captured by the Chinese.

The Tibetans today are losing their culture. They are forced to marry Chinese and being told they have to speak Chinese instead of Tibetan and recognize Chinese customs instead of their own. They are ridiculed for their religious beliefs.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../war/tibet.htm

"Subsequent to 1980, the executive branch has consistently embraced the position that Tibet is part of China, rather than an independent foreign state. See Press Availability by President Clinton and President Jiang, 1998 WL 345136, at *11 (June 27, 1998) (expressing President Clinton's "agree[ment] that Tibet is a part of China, an autonomous region of China"); The President's News Conference with President Jiang Zemin of China, 2 Pub. Papers of William J. Clinton 1445, 1452 (1997) (expressing United States commitment that there will be "no attempt to sever Tibet from China"); Department of State, 105th Cong., Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 1996, at 640 (Joint Comm. Print 1997) ("The United States recognizes the Tibet Autonomous Region . . . to be part of the People's Republic of China."); Human Rights in Tibet: Hearing Before the Subcomms. on Human Rights and International Organizations, and on Asian and Pacific Affairs of the House Comm. on Foreign Affairs, 100th Cong. 33 (1987) (statement of Ambassador J. Stapleton Roy, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State) ("[T]he United States Government considers Tibet to be a part of China and does not in any way recognize the Tibetan government in exile that the Dalai Lama claims to head."); Statement on Signing the Export-Import Bank Act Amendments of 1986, 2 Pub. Papers of Ronald Reagan 1390, 1391 (1986) ("1986 Signing Statement") ("The United States recognizes Tibet as part of the People's Republic of China.").

His Holiness, the XIV Dalai Lama, met at the White House on 21 May 2001 with the President and the National Security Advisor to discuss Tibet.

The President commended the Dalai Lama's commitment to nonviolence and declared his strong support for the Dalai Lama's tireless efforts to initiate a dialogue with the Chinese government. The President said he would seek ways to encourage dialogue and expressed his hope that the Chinese government would respond favorably.

The President also reiterated the strong commitment of the United States to support the preservation of Tibet's unique religious, cultural, and linguistic identity and the protection of the human rights of all Tibetans. The President and the Dalai Lama agreed on the importance of strong and constructive U.S.-China relations.

The United States Congress, however, has at times expressed a different perspective. See Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1994 and 1995, Pub. L. No. 103-236, § 536, 108 Stat. 382, 481 (1994) ("Because Congress has determined that Tibet is an occupied sovereign country under international law," Congress has imposed a reporting requirement on the Secretary of State regarding, inter alia, the state of relations between the United States and "those recognized by Congress as the true representatives of the Tibetan people."); see also Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1992 and 1993, Pub. L. No. 102-138, § 355, 105 Stat. 647, 713 (1991) ("It is the sense of the Congress that . . . Tibet . . . is an occupied country under the established principles of international law [and] Tibet's true representatives are the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in exile as recognized by the Tibetan people . . . .")."

[Cookie Parker]

DAR is better able to speak to this, i had thought the Dalai Llama was a "perfected being" when born, he is essentially another living Buddha.

the rest of the crap is Chinese hegemony talk : deviation and such", Dalai Lama has called for autonomous rule, but not Independence for Tibet.

I'm gonna wait for DAR to comment , before i say anything else.

YOu don't have any understanding of Buddhism. Buddha is in you...you can attain your buddhahood with practice. There is NO supreme being in buddhism..that's what makes it so great and so unselfish. Buddhists are responsible for their own actions and accept such responsibility.

[CosmicRocker]

As for the monks attempt at bringing attention to what is going on in Tibet. It is terrible and has been for a long time ever since the Dali Lama fled to avoid captured by the Chinese.

The Tibetans today are losing their culture. They are forced to marry Chinese and being told they have to speak Chinese instead of Tibetan and recognize Chinese customs instead of their own. They are ridiculed for their religious beliefs.

Understood. there is the term "Hanization of Tibet".
McDonald on every corner, China is intent on not just aquiring Tibet,as they have, but their goal is to wipe out any culture.

As long as there are Tibetian Buddhists practicing in Tibet, China -in its usual hegemoic way is paranoid something will challenge the Empire.

So they they try to satiate the culture with material "improvements", to keep Buddhist contemplation repalced by desire for wealth/ material goods.

[CosmicRocker]

The Dali Lama knew this would be a problem and the Chinese government will interfere with the process of discovery in selecting his incarnation. He has already chosen a successor upon his death but the Chinese have refused to accept His Holiness' choice in the matter.

Just my personal thoughts on this. A few years after the Dali Lama's death a group of carefully chosen will seek out His reincarnated self. The boy needs to be old enough to pick out certain items and answer some basic questions. Born about the time the Dali Lama has died. About 3 years old while the previous life is still strong. A Bodhisattva takes an oath not to release from the death birth cycle but vows to return to help others. There is a process to determine this but being reborn as a baby and very vulnerable makes it very dangerous.

Until then someone else needs to stand in. About 15 years ago 5 children were chosen for various reasons from several countries and have been receiving training which one exactly is to be chosen I do not know. One was selected. I do not know if this is the person referred to in the article or not. I had heard it was a ruse to protect the real selection. But the person has been chosen many years ago without notoriety for obvious reasons.

http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Suc...China_999.html

TY. the bodihasstava concept of course, so each dalai Lama really is the same incarnation as the original Buddha, ( pefected self), who chooses not to end the birth/death cycle. Choose not the Gateway??

[CosmicRocker]

The Dali Lama knew this would be a problem and the Chinese government will interfere with the process of discovery in selecting his incarnation. He has already chosen a successor upon his death but the Chinese have refused to accept His Holiness' choice in the matter.

Just my personal thoughts on this. A few years after the Dali Lama's death a group of carefully chosen will seek out His reincarnated self. The boy needs to be old enough to pick out certain items and answer some basic questions. Born about the time the Dali Lama has died. About 3 years old while the previous life is still strong. A Bodhisattva takes an oath not to release from the death birth cycle but vows to return to help others. There is a process to determine this but being reborn as a baby and very vulnerable makes it very dangerous.

Until then someone else needs to stand in. About 15 years ago 5 children were chosen for various reasons from several countries and have been receiving training which one exactly is to be chosen I do not know. One was selected. I do not know if this is the person referred to in the article or not. I had heard it was a ruse to protect the real selection. But the person has been chosen many years ago without notoriety for obvious reasons.

http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Suc...China_999.html

Have to google and read when awake. Got the premise. TY

[Darmosiel]

YOu don't have any understanding of Buddhism. Buddha is in you...you can attain your buddhahood with practice. There is NO supreme being in buddhism..that's what makes it so great and so unselfish. Buddhists are responsible for their own actions and accept such responsibility.

CR is more advanced than he gives himself credit for since he walks the path and not just reads the words in my view.

You cannot always attain Buddha hood with practice. Some struggle and never attain it...although the Forest Dwellers (Therevada) maintain one does attain it during one's life without a Teacher. But then they live in the forest like monkeys..lol..sorry little Buddhist humor. Other schools like to tease them since theirs is the oldest one and they feel very smug about it. Heh.

Doctrines vary on this. A large part of Buddhists feel strongly against those that only read the words and don't maintain the practice.

While practice maybe involved it is intended to adjust one's mind to think differently. A certain abstraction from ordinary view is required. Others maintain a level of wisdom is the focus of practice.

Buddha hood is not within as your first statement claims...It is having reached awareness of what is there and always has been there.. After a time one eventually crosses the river..only to find it is the same river on the other side. lol

Should a Zen Master ask you where Buddha hood is.. and you had replied
"It is within" He would have hit you on the head with his Roshi stick, saying something like:
"Where are you keeping it? In your stomach? In your liver? How silly. Let it out at once!"

While Buddha hood is also referred to as one who has attained Nirvana. It depends on the School of Buddhism. While it is true there have been many other Buddhas there are levels of attainment.

Not everyone that attains Buddha hood turns the Wheel of Enlightenment as Siddhartha did in his lifetime nor have many walked the same Path and been the spiritual leader as a Dali Lama.

I consider Jesus to have been Enlightened and to have turned the Wheel since he made spiritual knowledge personal rather than purely devotional. Others consider the Dali Lama to be the embodied Buddha. Buddhists argue these points.

Many Buddhas in the Pali Canon are celestial rather than historical.

[CosmicRocker]

While practice maybe involved it is intended to adjust one's mind to think differently. A certain abstraction from ordinary view is required.

how I do it, almost like psychoanalysis, detach yourself from Ego, and look at yourself from outside p.o.v.

Look at what you do, see if it is Nobel, if not, think how to change the way you live.
Then incorporate the change into your life ways...not sure if this is valid, but seems to work.

I look at drugs, I know they will bring pleasure, but doing so, hurts me, and creats attachment to intoxicants.

Cannot think clear mind with intoxicants -don't use.

same with any atachments, do not cling to the desire for food. sex, money. etc.
Use and enjoy, but let them pass thru your hands without trying to grasp them, and keep that state.

Cannot have sex run your life, cannot have aquisition of more money constantly run your life, doing so deviates the mind from Nobel Path.


all is transitory, back to "be here now" concept?? Oy. so much to learn.........