Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Public Unions Must Go !

  1. #1

    Default Public Unions Must Go !

    Public Unions Must Go
    Jonah Goldberg


    The protesting public school teachers with fake doctor's notes swarming the Capitol building in Madison, Wis., insist that Gov. Scott Walker is hell-bent on "union busting." Walker denies that his effort to reform public-sector unions in Wisconsin is anything more than an honest attempt at balancing the state's books.

    I hope the protesters are right.

    Public unions have been a 50-year mistake.

    A crucial distinction has been lost in the debate over Walker's proposals: Government unions are not the same thing as private-sector unions.

    Traditional, private-sector unions were born out of an often-bloody adversarial relationship between labor and management. It's been said that during World War I, U.S. soldiers had better odds of surviving on the front lines than miners did in West Virginia coal mines.

    Mine disasters were frequent; hazardous conditions were the norm. In 1907, the Monongah mine explosion claimed the lives of 362 West Virginia miners. Day-to-day life often resembled serfdom, with management controlling vast swaths of the miners' lives. Before unionization and many New Deal-era reforms, Washington had little power to reform conditions by legislation
    .
    Government unions have no such narrative on their side.

    Do you recall the Great DMV cave-in of 1959?

    How about the travails of second-grade teachers recounted in Upton Sinclair's famous schoolhouse sequel to "The Jungle"? No? Don't feel bad, because no such horror stories exist.

    Government workers were making good salaries in 1962 when President Kennedy lifted, by executive order (so much for democracy), the federal ban on government unions.

    Civil service regulations and similar laws had guaranteed good working conditions for generations.

    The argument for public unionization wasn't moral, economic or intellectual.

    It was rankly political.

    Traditional organized labor, the backbone of the Democratic Party, was beginning to lose ground. As Daniel DiSalvo wrote in "The Trouble with Public Sector Unions," in the fall issue of National Affairs, JFK saw how in states such as New York and Wisconsin, where public unions were already in place, local liberal pols benefited politically and financially.

    He took the idea national.
    The plan worked perfectly -- too perfectly.

    Public union membership skyrocketed, and government union support for the party of government skyrocketed with it. From 1989 to 2004, AFSCME -- the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees -- gave nearly $40 million to candidates in federal elections, with 98.5 percent going to Democrats, according to the Center for Responsive Politics


    Why would local government unions give so much in federal elections?

    Because government workers have an inherent interest in boosting the amount of federal tax dollars their local governments get.

    Put simply, people in the government business support the party of government.

    Which is why, as the Manhattan Institute's Steven Malanga has been chronicling for years, public unions are the country's foremost advocates for increased taxes at all levels of government.

    And this gets to the real insidiousness of government unions. Wisconsin labor officials fairly note that they've acceded to many of their governor's specific demands -- that workers contribute to their pensions and health-care costs, for example. But they don't want to lose the right to collective bargaining.

    But that is exactly what they need to lose.

    Private-sector unions fight with management over an equitable distribution of profits. Government unions negotiate with friendly politicians over taxpayer money, putting the public interest at odds with union interests, and, as we've seen in states such as California and Wisconsin, exploding the cost of government.

    California's pension costs soared 2,000 percent in a decade thanks to the unions.

    The labor-politician negotiations can't be fair when the unions can put so much money into campaign spending. Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the New York City chapter of AFSCME, summed up the problem in 1975 when he boasted, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss."

    This is why FDR believed that "the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," and why even George Meany, the first head of the AFL-CIO, held that it was "impossible to bargain collectively with the government."

    As it turns out, it's not impossible; it's just terribly unwise.

    It creates a dysfunctional system where for some, growing government becomes its own reward. You can find evidence of this dysfunction everywhere. The Cato Institute's Michael Tanner notes that federal education spending has risen by 188 percent in real terms since 1970, but we've seen no significant improvement in test scores.
    The unions and the protesters in Wisconsin see Walker's reforms as a potential death knell for government unions. My response?

    If only.
    http://townhall.com/columnists/jonah...unions_must_go

  2. #2
    Administrator Bill Cosby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    State of Mind
    Posts
    52,913
    Blog Entries
    39

    Red face

    This is why FDR believed that "the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," and why even George Meany, the first head of the AFL-CIO, held that it was "impossible to bargain collectively with the government."
    You ppl always talk bad about FDR, & so now he is an expert we must listen to?? You're kidding right???

    George Meany, I guess he is another hero??

    No one here voted for FDR or George Meany, so I don't think we are bound by their opinions from 30 or 50 years ago........

    Regardless of what they or we believe the unions are here, & they aint going anywhere........ DEAL W/ IT
    We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions.
    Howard Zinn

    We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.

    Louis D. Brandeis

  3. #3
    Senior Member Hawkeye2j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    21,276

    Default

    Government workers were making good salaries in 1962 when President Kennedy lifted, by executive order (so much for democracy), the federal ban on government unions.

    Since the ban was not put in by legislation, you would not need legislation to lift it. You say so much for democracy. The ban was not put in by democracy.
    "Our tax code shouldn’t give an advantage to companies that can afford the best-connected lobbyists. It should give an advantage to companies that invest and create jobs here in America." — President Obama

  4. #4
    Administrator Bill Cosby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    State of Mind
    Posts
    52,913
    Blog Entries
    39

    Default

    Simply amazing isn't it...........

    The folks on wallstreet crash the economy & we bail them out- they get a raise, a bonus & keep their nice job- & now some of you fools wanna grab pitch forks & go after your kids teacher................. NOT SURE IF I SHOULD LAUGH OR CRY.............

    I would think some of you smarter than to follow some fool like Franky, he might lead you right off a cliff.......... He will blame Obama & liberals all the way to the bottom.................
    We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions.
    Howard Zinn

    We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.

    Louis D. Brandeis

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye2j
    Government workers were making good salaries in 1962 when President Kennedy lifted, by executive order (so much for democracy), the federal ban on government unions.

    Since the ban was not put in by legislation, you would not need legislation to lift it. You say so much for democracy. The ban was not put in by democracy.
    Totally false.

    Up until 1962 public unions were probibited by the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.

    Who is covered by the Act?

    Most employees in the private sector are covered by the NLRA.

    However, the Act does not include coverage for all workers. It specifically excludes individuals who are:
    • employed as agricultural laborers
    • employed in the domestic service of any person or family in a home
    • employed by a parent or spouse
    • employed as an independent contractor
    • employed as a supervisor (supervisors who have been discriminated against for refusing to violate the NLRA may be covered)
    • employed by an employer subject to the Railway Labor Act, such as railroads and airlines
    • employed by Federal, state, or local government
    • employed by any other person who is not an employer as defined in the NLRA
    http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employee-rights
    Last edited by Frankg; 02-24-2011 at 06:30 AM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankg
    Public Unions Must Go
    Jonah Goldberg
    Jonah Goldberg? That fat rat?
    T-Cat - "Conservation of momentum applies to a system closed in kinetic energy, not a thermodynamically closed system."

    T-Cat on Potential Energy: "Which means that you aren't converting it all at any point until you reach the ground."

  7. #7

    Default

    Once again, unions became what any large entity tends to become in this country: power/money hungry with very little will or ability to change quickly (due to massive administrative and mindset burdens).

    Their power has been - and will continue to - diminish. The gravy train is over and make no mistake, the unions "got what they could" while it lasted(regardless of the clear long term fiscal damage their winnings were going to inflict on society). International competition is here. We cannot build walls around our society. The unions need to get their asses over to China, India and start driving up their labor rates/environmental standards.

    All this said, I do think unions will survive and actually might bounce back decades from now pending how effective and sturdy regulations prove to be. I consider them yet another check and balance that may emerge again.

  8. #8
    Administrator Bill Cosby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    State of Mind
    Posts
    52,913
    Blog Entries
    39

    Default

    I agree Mike, they are part of the checks & balance which is much needed in the corporately owned country.......

    Hell, I can't even find a good pitch fork made in America any more??? WTF??

    What will my friends think when I show up @ the school w/ one made in China???

    Is there a black market for them yet??"Ebay??

    Death to teachers, death to unions, down w/ social security, medicade, cops & firemen...............
    .
    We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions.
    Howard Zinn

    We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.

    Louis D. Brandeis

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hawkeye2j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    21,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankg
    Totally false.

    Up until 1962 public unions were probibited by the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.

    http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employee-rights
    I stand corrected! That is what I get for assuming.
    "Our tax code shouldn’t give an advantage to companies that can afford the best-connected lobbyists. It should give an advantage to companies that invest and create jobs here in America." — President Obama

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondual
    Jonah Goldberg? That fat rat?
    Great rebutal.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •