GUT CHECK FOR AMERICA

[foxbaron]

AMERICA, remember her?

The greatest country that ever existed? The Land of the Free and the Brave? Where Freedom Rings? The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into? The Land of opportunity? The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

Rememeber her? You know, the one that waged war on other countries when it was necessary, and then rebuilt those countries afterwards? And then actually, unbelievably, forgave those countries debts to her? You know the same country that gave the conquered countries back to its citizens and didn't just keep it for themselves? The same country that then spent billions of dollars to give these conquered countries back their own national identity and then respected that identity? Yeah, that one.

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?

[MintJulep]

Don't you worry. She will be back for she is too grand for even lil tin Jesus to conquer. :thumbsup:

[Hog Trash]

AMERICA, remember her?

The greatest country that ever existed? The Land of the Free and the Brave? Where Freedom Rings? The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into? The Land of opportunity? The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

Rememeber her? You know, the one that waged war on other countries when it was necessary, and then rebuilt those countries afterwards? And then actually, unbelievably, forgave those countries debts to her? You know the same country that gave the conquered countries back to its citizens and didn't just keep it for themselves? The same country that then spent billions of dollars to give these conquered countries back their own national identity and then respected that identity? Yeah, that one.

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?You better chill foxbaron....All this patriotism is gonna piss the liberals off big time.

[Bill Cosby]

AMERICA, remember her?

The greatest country that ever existed? The Land of the Free and the Brave? Where Freedom Rings? The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into? The Land of opportunity? The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

Rememeber her? You know, the one that waged war on other countries when it was necessary, and then rebuilt those countries afterwards? And then actually, unbelievably, forgave those countries debts to her? You know the same country that gave the conquered countries back to its citizens and didn't just keep it for themselves? The same country that then spent billions of dollars to give these conquered countries back their own national identity and then respected that identity? Yeah, that one.

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?

Unlike any other country on earth..............lol

Wake up kid.......... You are living in the 50's to????

Patriotism???? That is straight up nationalism propaganda.........

Law??? Is wallstreet a law free zone???

[GetAClue]

You better chill foxbaron....All this patriotism is gonna piss the liberals off big time.

BINGO! And we have a winner!

Unlike any other country on earth..............lol

Wake up kid.......... You are living in the 50's to????

Patriotism???? That is straight up nationalism propaganda.........

Law??? Is wallstreet a law free zone???

[Bill Cosby]

I am not concerned what you think.
That is straight up propaganda of the like gobbles & them other nazi would be proud........

It is nasty assed nationalism like that that has caused so much death & destruction...........

I am gonna tell you right now that being born south of Canada & north of Mexico makes you no damn different than anyone else on earth.............

That may be a difficult TRUTH for some of the wrap myself in the flag crowd (as long as a rep is ini office anywayZ) but your asses are showing..........

[GetAClue]

I am not concerned what you think.
That is straight up propaganda of the like gobbles & them other nazi would be proud........

It is nasty assed nationalism like that that has caused so much death & destruction...........

I am gonna tell you right now that being born south of Canada & north of Mexico makes you no damn different than anyone else on earth.............

That may be a difficult TRUTH for some of the wrap myself in the flag crowd (as long as a rep is ini office anywayZ) but your asses are showing..........
Being proud of the heritage and good that our ancestors and country have done is propaganda? Apparently Obama shares your views. That would explain his World Apology tour.

I don’t understand why you are so ashamed of this country. Sure, there are a number of things that have happened here to be ashamed of, but show me any country on Earth that has not had their faults.

But while you are at it, show the good that they have done for the human race and let’s see if it even comes close to what this country has done for the advancement of the human race.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

AMERICA, remember her?

The greatest country that ever existed? The Land of the Free and the Brave? Where Freedom Rings? The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into? The Land of opportunity? The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

Rememeber her? You know, the one that waged war on other countries when it was necessary, and then rebuilt those countries afterwards? And then actually, unbelievably, forgave those countries debts to her? You know the same country that gave the conquered countries back to its citizens and didn't just keep it for themselves? The same country that then spent billions of dollars to give these conquered countries back their own national identity and then respected that identity? Yeah, that one.

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?
I am still waiting for the real America to appear again as well. One that is not run by bigoted, narrow minded backwards thinking people, where peaceful dissent is a good quality for EVERY American to have no matter what side of the aisle you fight on...where real issues such as the outrageous costs of healthcare...loss of jobs to outsourcing...etc..take the forefront over bs issues like someones bc or legal status, homo lifestyles and all the other fluff shit I see from certain people on this board...ie "where is Obama golfing today or he is vacationing in Italy when this and this and this is going on"

[Bill Cosby]

Being proud of the heritage and good that our ancestors and country have done is propaganda? Apparently Obama shares your views. That would explain his World Apology tour.

I don’t understand why you are so ashamed of this country. Sure, there are a number of things that have happened here to be ashamed of, but show me any country on Earth that has not had their faults.

But while you are at it, show the good that they have done for the human race and let’s see if it even comes close to what this country has done for the advancement of the human race.

I already answered to this bull shit.......... For your edification I reposted some of the propaganda just in case you never bothered to actually read what was written.......


The greatest country that ever existed

The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into?

The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?

[GetAClue]

I am still waiting for the real America to appear again as well. One that is not run by bigoted, narrow minded backwards thinking people, where peaceful dissent is a good quality for EVERY American to have no matter what side of the aisle you fight on...where real issues such as the outrageous costs of healthcare...loss of jobs to outsourcing...etc..take the forefront over bs issues like someones bc or legal status, homo lifestyles and all the other fluff shit I see from certain people on this board...ie "where is Obama golfing today or he is vacationing in Italy when this and this and this is going on"
Do you feel that it is the job of the government to change this? What about personal responsibility? If a company moves operations out of this country, do you still buy their products or services? If healthcare costs are too much, why don’t we address the real issues instead of finding ways to steal from one group of people to give to another group of people in the name of healthcare?

You have too simplistic a view of the issues. You are waiting for government to come in and save the day but you don’t even really understand the problem. The Obama proposal does nothing to lower healthcare costs, it is simply a way for the government to steal money from the wealthy and businesses to give to the healthcare providers.

Why don’t we focus on WHY healthcare costs so much? Should it? Maybe we are arguing over nothing. After all, the quality of care in the country is second to none other. Any system that they come up with that attempts to change this should be discounted out of hand.

You also talk about the outsourcing of jobs to other countries. Whose fault is that? Could it be that the American worker (Unions) are pricing themselves out of the market? If you owned a company and could cut your costs in half, would you do it? If you were honest with yourself you would. Why should other people not have the same motives? After all, the shareholders (you and me) reward those companies that do this by purchasing more of their products and their stocks.

[Binky]

AMERICA, remember her?

The greatest country that ever existed? The Land of the Free and the Brave? Where Freedom Rings? The only place on earth where people will literally risk their lives and the lives of their children to break into? The Land of opportunity? The breadbasket of the world? The one country that could be relied on to help any other country, including our enemies, in times of disaster?

Rememeber her? You know, the one that waged war on other countries when it was necessary, and then rebuilt those countries afterwards? And then actually, unbelievably, forgave those countries debts to her? You know the same country that gave the conquered countries back to its citizens and didn't just keep it for themselves? The same country that then spent billions of dollars to give these conquered countries back their own national identity and then respected that identity? Yeah, that one.

A country that sends aid anywhere in the world at anytime when it is needed, as long as the host country will allow it? Yeah, that one.

The country that was built on a belief in a God, not necessarily a specific religion? Remember her? A country that allows all religions and all forms of worship and throws in a tax deduction to boot? Boy, what a country.

A country based on equal treatment under the law? Innocent until proven guilty? Legal rights unlike any other country on earth?

A country with the mightiest military on earth that restrains its military from conquering the globe? Yeah, her.

A country that keeps the rest of the world from literally attacking each other?

A country worth dying and fighting for.

Yeah, that one. Anyone seen her lately?



Oh yeah, I remember that one. The one that allows us to sling out the hate and toss it about. The one that liberals have taken over and are in the process of wiping out parts of the constitution if not all of it and making out a whole new one to suit themselves. Oh yeah, the one where anything goes and modesty no longer exists.

Yep, I remember her well. Too damn bad my grandaughters will never have the chance to live with her until their old age.

[GetAClue]

I already answered to this bull shit.......... For your edification I reposted some of the propaganda just in case you never bothered to actually read what was written.......
No need to re-post it. I read it the first time and agree with it completely. I was just asking what part of it you disagree with? Some of it, all of it? If so, why do you continue to live in a country that you despise?

No need to answer, I already know. Because down deep, you know there is not another country on Earth that lives up to your standards like this one does.

[Surfrider]

http://www.barackobama.net/pictures/barack-obama-1.jpg
~President Barack Obama

Politicians should not use religion to insulate themselves from criticism
"I am a great admirer of our founding charter and its resolve to prevent theocracies from forming and its resolve to prevent disruptive strains of fundamentalism from taking root in this country. I think there is an enormous danger on the part of public figures to rationalize or justify their actions by claiming God’s mandate. I don’t think it’s healthy for public figures to wear religion on their sleeve as a means to insulate themselves from criticism, or dialogue with people who disagree with them.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times, “I have a deep faith” Apr 5, 2004

[The_Limit]

I don't think theres anything wrong with the lead poster expressing love for his country.

If you feel that way about your native land, then hey...more power to you.

Positive thinking never hurts amid a storm of negativity.

[Bill Cosby]

No need to re-post it. I read it the first time and agree with it completely. I was just asking what part of it you disagree with? Some of it, all of it? If so, why do you continue to live in a country that you despise?

No need to answer, I already know. Because down deep, you know there is not another country on Earth that lives up to your standards like this one does.

why do you continue to live in a country that you despise?

Funny you should ask me......... Why not ask yor friends wrapped in the flags... They are crying daily how bad it is "all of a sudden".......... When bush was doing the same stuff they were all for it.......

not another country on Earth that lives up to your standards like this one does

Who has Palu attacked lately??? Or COsta Rica?? Canada seems like a nice place & them Swiss are real cool to........

Those commie Norse countries are full of fine women & a fine standard of living. I think I could handle that + none of them invaded anyone in a while.......

I find it kinda odd that all these "lesser" countries put their citizen healthcare before bombing others- damn commie libs............ & what about them commie French. I could get free healthcare, childcare, hospice care & free upper education for my kids......... Socialist bastards.....:mad:

Now if a bad country does something wrong "we", you & I can complain about it but when the "good ppl" do wrong there is only one of us left to call it...

I for one am not going to cloud the truth to suite my vision... I am not going to place some benevolent bull shit on a war for profit & oil.... Even if his gawd made him do it............

[Hog Trash]

No need to re-post it. I read it the first time and agree with it completely. I was just asking what part of it you disagree with? Some of it, all of it? If so, why do you continue to live in a country that you despise?

No need to answer, I already know. Because down deep, you know there is not another country on Earth that lives up to your standards like this one does.Because like many, he has dreams of transforming America into his idea of the perfect socialist utopia.

"From each according to his ability...To each according to his needs"... Karl Marx, the father of socialism.

[Bill Cosby]

HHhhmmMMMM............ Now he is even quoting marx. What next....

The bible??? The manifesto??

There is no utopia------>>> But then most folks in the industrialized world would not consider American children being educated & out of poverty as "Utopian" either...........

That distinction is held by a select group of greed filled haters in country....

[foxbaron]

Funny you should ask me......... Why not ask yor friends wrapped in the flags... They are crying daily how bad it is "all of a sudden".......... When bush was doing the same stuff they were all for it.......



Who has Palu attacked lately??? Or COsta Rica?? Canada seems like a nice place & them Swiss are real cool to........

Those commie Norse countries are full of fine women & a fine standard of living. I think I could handle that + none of them invaded anyone in a while.......

I find it kinda odd that all these "lesser" countries put their citizen healthcare before bombing others- damn commie libs............ & what about them commie French. I could get free healthcare, childcare, hospice care & free upper education for my kids......... Socialist bastards.....:mad:

Now if a bad country does something wrong "we", you & I can complain about it but when the "good ppl" do wrong there is only one of us left to call it...

I for one am not going to cloud the truth to suite my vision... I am not going to place some benevolent bull shit on a war for profit & oil.... Even if his gawd made him do it............


Perhaps, maybe all these other "enlightened" countries are able to afford these things easier as they don't have to spend as much money on their military defenses seeing as how the entire free world depends on America to come save their ass if they get invaded by a bunch of bad boys.

[Surfrider]

HHhhmmMMMM............ Now he is even quoting marx. What next....

The bible??? The manifesto??

Hey Bill! Just wanted to stop by. I think I have solved my Trash Hog problem. You may remember he could not answer a few questions any high school sophomore could answer about our founding documents?

Well, I ordered a bunch of these cartoons, and whenever he starts in I am just going to post one after his post. I have plenty of them if you want any. Childish? Yes, but when you are dealing with a moron, you have to stoop to their level to communicate. My God, Trash Hog has the right to vote! Where will the insanity end?

http://www.illustrationsof.com/images/clipart/xsmall2/777_male_hillbilly_typing_on_a_computer.jpg

[radioguy]

Politicians should not use religion to insulate themselves from criticism

You mean politicians shouldn't use a nominee's race to insulate them from criticism, like the democrats have done for years.

.

[Bill Cosby]

Perhaps, maybe all these other "enlightened" countries are able to afford these things easier as they don't have to spend as much money on their military defenses seeing as how the entire free world depends on America to come save their ass if they get invaded by a bunch of bad boys.


Sounds real noble...... Almost benevolent, unselfish etc......... & I am sure you really believe it. I once believed it to....... Then I started looking into things & reading & I found things were not as I was told.....

If you do the same I believe you will likely come to similar conclusions......

Take for example your conclusions (illusions) above....... Did you stop ask yourself what those folks wanted?? NO you haven't, as what they want does not really matter now does it.......... They didn't ask us for help or protection......

The IraQi ppl didn't ask for us to liberate them & their oil.........

We have been in the ME for a long time now........ Protecting our friends & protecting our oil from our friends. The lines get a bit fuzzy don't they...

Like when the usa supports the overthrow of a democratically elected man & replaces him w/ a dictator or general..... Surely they do it for some good reasons which all just so happen to benefit us..... Coincidences.......... :thumbsup:

One last point. In the opening post about we don't go conquering ppl & all that....... Of course not.. We are gentlemen & ladies. We don't go around doing that. We install some puppet to do it for us. he handles our affairs in a manner we could scarcely get away w/........ He benefits & so do our major corporations......

Remember back in the good O' dayZ when they liquored up some "savage" & got him to sign away all the tribes land.... Didn't matter if he was authorized or whatever....... It suited us just fine.......

& that is how it is...........

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU!!!!!:thumbsup:

[Bill Cosby]

Hey Bill! Just wanted to stop by. I think I have solved my Trash Hog problem. You may remember he could not answer a few questions any high school sophomore could answer about our founding documents?

Well, I ordered a bunch of these cartoons, and whenever he starts in I am just going to post one after his post. I have plenty of them if you want any. Childish? Yes, but when you are dealing with a moron, you have to stoop to their level to communicate. My God, Trash Hog has the right to vote! Where will the insanity end?

http://www.illustrationsof.com/images/clipart/xsmall2/777_male_hillbilly_typing_on_a_computer.jpg

ThanX for the offer, I will keep it in mind........ :thumbsup:

Well I imagine mr hog would like for me to do that & give his poor ass a break....... But I prefer my methods......... I believe my foot & his ass has accomplished quite a bit....

Who knows maybe one day the porker may even make a good neighbor.. Or a small foot note...:lmao2:

[foxbaron]

I am still waiting for the real America to appear again as well. One that is not run by bigoted, narrow minded backwards thinking people, where peaceful dissent is a good quality for EVERY American to have no matter what side of the aisle you fight on...where real issues such as the outrageous costs of healthcare...loss of jobs to outsourcing...etc..take the forefront over bs issues like someones bc or legal status, homo lifestyles and all the other fluff shit I see from certain people on this board...ie "where is Obama golfing today or he is vacationing in Italy when this and this and this is going on"


The forefront over bs issues likes someone's bc or legal status? I assume you are speaking about Obama's birth certficicate and legal status.

Well, I don't think Obama's birth certificate is a bs issue. As a matter of fact I think it is one of the most serious issues facing this country today. And you can call me a "birther" or anything else you care to but allow me to give you my take on this isssue and why I feel it is important.

We are talking about an individual who has assumed the Office of the President of the United States of America. The most powerful and important office in the world, at the moment.

His actions and policies affect the whole world, not just the United States. He does have influence whether or not you like the man. His character sets the tone for the reputation of this country. His words have meaning and his actions speak even louder to the world. He represents America and to many in this world, he is what America is all about.

Now, let's seriously think for a moment about what this means. Would you trust a leader of another country if you knew that leader was lying to his own citizens or doing his best to keep his citizens from knowing his true origins?

There is a shadow of doubt that hangs over Obama' head because of this birth certificate controversy. As a leader of another country would you feel completely comfortable with dealing with another country's leader who may or may not be that country's legally elected leader. Would you not have somewhat of a concern that any agreements you enter into with that country could possibly be negated if it turned out that the guy you made the agreements with was suddenly removed from office. Wouldn't you kind of hedge your bets a bit.

And what about the citizens of this Country? Don't you think we have a right to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is in fact a "citizen" eligible to be elected to the highest office in the land? And wouldn't it just drive you nuts to someday find out that he wasn't? Would that not bother you? What then happens to every agreement he ever made with other countries? Would they still be valid? What about the bills he signed into law, especially the ones you didn't agree with? How do you correct that after several years?

Would you not feel that your Country had suffered a coup and that he and all those around him lied to you and stole your country from you? Would you not want his head on a stick, along with his cohorts?

Would you not be ready to get out the pitchforks and torches?

I know that it would severly upset me.

So, why does he allow this to go on? He can immediately put this controversy aside and shut us all the hell up by simply releasing his original long form birth certificate.

Controversy done, proof given, everybody shut up, get a life, and deal with the fact that he is our President.

BUT, he won't and why is that? What is the point of his fighting all these suits in court? Why spend the money, go through the effort, and even be bothered by this when he can put a stop to it in about 12 seconds or less?

There has to be a reason other than he just thinks it is none of our business or he likes to stick his finger in our eye.

News Flash Obama! It is our business. "We the people" do have a right to know if our President is eligible to be, well; "Our President."

Why has our Congress not demanded this "proof".
Why is the U.S. Attorney's Office not investigating this?
Why are the Courts not expediting these cases?

Why the hell is it even a question anymore? Why was it not dealt with and put aside earlier?

There is a reason. There must be a reason and damned if I can think of one that makes any sense whatsoever other than the fact that he is not/was not eligible to even run for President and everyone is so scared of what would happen if the truth came out.

Just think of what his administration has done in the short time he has been in office and the changes that have taken place in this country and the changes that are to come because of his decisions and policies. How much harder will it be if two years from now if it turns out the whole election was in reality a "coup". What then?

Don't you think he at least owes us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Plus, I want him to explain why he fought this for as long as he did. I want to hear his justification as to why, I, a citizen of this country, had no right to know the truth prior to his election.

I want to know why he allowed this to go on for so long. I want to know why he didn't think the rest of people needed to know. I want to know who paid for the attorneys on his side to fight these suits and why they paid these attorneys.

I want to know how much the attorneys were paid. I want to know if any of them, the attorneys or those who paid for them, are/were rewarded with a governmental position.

I want the transparency he allegedly promised us.

And, if it really, really hits the fan, I want to know that our Commander-in-Chief really is our legitimate Commander-in Chief.

Your turn.

[Surfrider]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LCCnRfLDQy4/SOwkM77OLmI/AAAAAAAABLE/MD93MpHeuiw/S1600-R/liberal-martyr-banner.jpg

[bairdi]

Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die
Barack Obama was, without question, born in the U.S., and he is eligible to be president, but experts on conspiracy theories say that won't ever matter to those who believe otherwise.

By Alex Koppelman

Dec. 05, 2008 |

Barack Obama can't be president: He wasn't really born in Hawaii, and the certification of live birth his campaign released is a forgery. He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii -- but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case. (But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

You might think these rumors would have died off after Obama produced proof in June that he was, in fact, born in Hawaii to an American citizen, his mother, Ann, or after Hawaii state officials confirmed in October that he was born there. You might think the rumors would have died off after he was elected by a comfortable margin. Instead, they've intensified. There have been paid advertisements in the Chicago Tribune questioning the president-elect's birth certificate and eligibility, and one group is raising money to run a similar ad on television. The right-wing Web site WorldNetDaily has been reporting on the issue almost nonstop. Numerous plaintiffs have filed lawsuits in various states. And Friday, the Supreme Court's nine justices will decide whether they want to hear one of those suits, which also contends that John McCain, born in the former Panama Canal Zone, does not meet the Constitution's requirements to hold the presidency.

The people hoping this is a sign the court will agree with them and stop Obama from becoming president are almost certain to be let down. The fact that the case has gone to conference doesn't mean anything about its merits -- the court will also be deciding whether to take up a number of other cases, and the chances that the suit will actually be heard is exceedingly small. Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, has calculated that over the past eight years the court has considered in conference 842 cases that sought a stay. Only 60 of them were actually heard. Seven hundred and eighty-two were denied.

But that doesn't matter. The faux controversy isn't going to go away soon. Yes, Obama was born in Hawaii, and yes, he is eligible to be president. But according to several experts in conspiracy theories, and in the psychology of people who believe in conspiracy theories, there's little chance those people who think Obama is barred from the presidency will ever be convinced otherwise. "There's no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody's mind," says Michael Shermer, who is the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a columnist for Scientific American, and who holds an undergraduate and a master's degree in psychology. "The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it ... Once you're committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind."

Any inconvenient facts are irrelevant. People who believe in a conspiracy theory "develop a selective perception, their mind refuses to accept contrary evidence," Chip Berlet, a senior analyst with Political Research Associates who studies such theories, says. "As soon as you criticize a conspiracy theory, you become part of the conspiracy."

Evan Harrington, a social psychologist who is an associate professor at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, agrees. "One of the tendencies of the conspiracy notion, the whole appeal, is that a lot of the information the believer has is secret or special," Harrington says. "The real evidence is out there, [and] you can give them all this evidence, but they'll have convenient ways to discredit [it]."

Whatever can't be ignored can be twisted to fit into the narrative; every new disclosure of something that should, by rights, end the controversy only opens up new questions, identifies new plotters. Perhaps the most common argument of those questioning Obama's eligibility is that he should just release his full, original birth certificate, rather than the shorter certification, which is a copy. His failure to do so only proves there is reason to be suspicious, they say, and if the document was released, the issue would go away. But that's unlikely. It was, after all, the Obama campaign's release of the certification this summer that stoked the fever of conspiracy mongers.

For believers, it works like this: So what if Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health, released a statement saying she has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record? So what if she said separately that the certification looks identical to one she was issued for her own Hawaii birth certificate? Why didn't her statement specify Obama's birthplace? So what if a Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman later clarified that Fukino meant that Obama was born in Hawaii? So what if researchers for FactCheck.org actually saw the physical copy of the certification and debunked much of the key "evidence" supposedly proving that the image posted online is a forgery? They're not really independent. They're funded by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, and Obama once (with Bill Ayers, no less) ran an entirely unrelated program that happened to be paid for with money donated by Walter Annenberg. And on and on and on.

If the long-form birth certificate were released, with its unequivocal identification of Hawaii as Obama's place of birth, the cycle would almost certainly continue. Rush Limbaugh already suggested that Obama's trip to Hawaii to see his ailing grandmother, who died not long after, was somehow connected to the controversy. Others, like Michael Savage, followed Limbaugh's lead, saying Obama was going to Hawaii to alter the record.

Not surprisingly, almost all of the people who've been most prominent in pushing this story have a history of conspiracist thought. There's Jerome Corsi, who's best known as the co-author of the book that launched the Swift boat vets; he's a chief proponent of the claim that the government is secretly planning to form a "North American Union" with Canada and Mexico. Philip Berg, who filed the lawsuit that had until now drawn the most public attention, is a 9/11 Truther. Andy Martin, who's credited with starting the myth that Obama is a Muslim and has been intimately involved in the birth certificate mess as well, was denied admission to the Illinois bar because of a psychiatric evaluation that showed he had "moderately severe character defect manifested by well-documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character." He also has a long history of anti-Semitism. Robert Schulz, who's responsible for the ads in the Tribune, is a fairly notorious tax protester. In 2007, a federal judge ordered Schulz to shutter his Web site because he and his organization were, in the words of the Justice Department's Tax Division, using the site to promote "a nationwide tax-fraud scheme."

We could be dealing with the repercussions of the tangled web these people have woven for years after Obama is inaugurated. We already have some hints of what's to come. Gary Kreep, who heads the United States Justice Foundation and is representing Alan Keyes in one of the lawsuits over the president-elect's eligibility, has said his group will file suit to challenge each and every one of Obama's actions as president.

He may well inspire others. There are a surprising number of people out there -- tax protesters, for instance -- who rely on similarly creative legal thinking based on conspiracy theories for their defense. So don't be too surprised if, sometime after Jan. 20, defendants in federal trials suddenly claim they can't be prosecuted. If Obama isn't really president, then laws he signs have no effect, Department of Justice prosecutors have no authority and judges he appoints aren't legally judges. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just part of the conspiracy.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/05/birth_certificate/

[Surfrider]

Boy, we are sure scraping the
bottom of the barrel on issues.

http://publicintellectual.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/birthcertobama.jpg

[CONFLICTS]

The same psychology applies to 9/11 conspiracy theorists. They're so alike while so diametrically opposed politically that it's funny.

[foxbaron]

So, like I said, why not release the long form, original, birth certificate and put this to rest?

But he won't and there must be a reason for it.

Why don't the liberals and supporters of Obama demand it and put it to rest.

Prove we are all wrong in our suspicions.

Let's put this controversy behind us. All of us. Get er done!

Let's go forward with the knowledge that our President is legally our President.

[MintJulep]

So, like I said, why not release the long form, original, birth certificate and put this to rest?

But he won't and there must be a reason for it.

Why don't the liberals and supporters of Obama demand it and put it to rest.

Prove we are all wrong in our suspicions.

Let's put this controversy behind us. All of us. Get er done!

Let's go forward with the knowledge that our President is legally our President.It doesn't matter where he was born or if it's legal or not, he is BLACK dammit and that's a free pass to do anything.

If you DARE question it or his policies you are a KKK loving racist. Get with the program.

[Bill Cosby]

So, like I said, why not release the long form, original, birth certificate and put this to rest?

But he won't and there must be a reason for it.

Why don't the liberals and supporters of Obama demand it and put it to rest.

Prove we are all wrong in our suspicions.

Let's put this controversy behind us. All of us. Get er done!

Let's go forward with the knowledge that our President is legally our President.

It may be fun to try to make a game of this in some kinda odd paranoid kinda way. DunnO???

To believe that an illegal could have been on a state level.... In the senate & elected President & King of the world w/out every detail of his life not going through the ringer several times is just nuts IMO.....

& given the wackO's supporting this I see I am right.

You guys are suppose to be the smart sensible ppl, remember!!!! The wise folks all about America & how good, benevolent, smart we are....... Now all of a sudden the gov is a bunch of idiots that can't keep illegals out of the Presidency....... MY God ppl............. Get back to basics & stop wasting time on non-issues......

[Bill Cosby]

It doesn't matter where he was born or if it's legal or not, he is BLACK dammit and that's a free pass to do anything.

If you DARE question it or his policies you are a KKK loving racist. Get with the program.

You know you are the only one I ever here saying/complaining about any of that....

He ain't going to change his color so you might as well get use to......

[MintJulep]

You know you are the only one I ever here saying/complaining about any of that....

He ain't going to change his color so you might as well get use to......Puleeezze. This has been going on since the election began almost three years ago. Anyone who criticizes, questions anything about the Messiah is a RACIST. I have heard it until I could puke. I believe what has transpired in regards to that has set race relations back about 50 years.

[Bill Cosby]

Well that was dramatic....>>> 50 years... I think just about the time jim crow ended.......

They had that there back in FLA....???

Criticizing his policy, his running of the country etc. is cool...>>> Criticizing his race is not........

If his job performance is criticized no one should play the race card.... If his race is being critisized then everyone should play the race card...

[MintJulep]

Criticizing his policy, his running of the country etc. is cool...>>> Criticizing his race is not........

If his job performance is criticized no one should play the race card.... If his race is being critisized then everyone should play the race card... Come on, BC. Don't be disingenuous. You know exactly what I'm talking about and what has gone on since the primaries began. I can't tell you how MANY times I have been called a racist for criticizing his ideology, polices, etc. The race-bomb throwers have set things back, IMO. The word doesn't even have meaning anymore.

[Bill Cosby]

I have been called a racist for criticizing his ideology,

You have an example???

[foxbaron]

It may be fun to try to make a game of this in some kinda odd paranoid kinda way. DunnO???

To believe that an illegal could have been on a state level.... In the senate & elected President & King of the world w/out every detail of his life not going through the ringer several times is just nuts IMO.....

& given the wackO's supporting this I see I am right.

You guys are suppose to be the smart sensible ppl, remember!!!! The wise folks all about America & how good, benevolent, smart we are....... Now all of a sudden the gov is a bunch of idiots that can't keep illegals out of the Presidency....... MY God ppl............. Get back to basics & stop wasting time on non-issues......


This is no game.

Let him put it to rest.

Question why he won't, not why we care.

Show us where every detail of his life has been gone through.

Nobody said he was an illegal. We just said he was ineligible. There is a difference.

[Bill Cosby]

It has been posted here & elsewhere......... It has been gone over several times......... Get over it. Move on, he is the president.........

Funny I seem to have more faith in our "stupid gov" then the patriotic folks..

[Surfrider]

To LadyLiberty7:

"He (President Obama), ain't going to change his color so you might as well get use to......"

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/EPH/9138~Stop-Using-Jesus-as-an-Excuse-Posters.jpg

[doctordog]

Hey Surf Rider , what does Obama's dick taste like?

492

[Surfrider]

.....It has been gone over several times......... Get over it. Move on, he is the president.........

http://likeawhisper.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ovaloffice.jpg

[doctordog]

It is like watching reruns on TV land.

501

[Smurf-Herder]

http://likeawhisper.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ovaloffice.jpg

http://londonist.com/attachments/London_DaveK/obamaCookies_sm.jpg

[Surfrider]

http://londonist.com/attachments/London_DaveK/obamaCookies_sm.jpg

Oh no, I insist, try one of mine. Believe it or not they were baked by Todd Palin!

http://www.smorgasbite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/obama-cookies.jpg

[doctordog]

Obama prefers fruit over fat foods!

502

[MintJulep]

Obama prefers fruit over fat foods!

502Aren't those boneless hams on the front lawn? :lmao2:

[Smurf-Herder]

Oh no, I insist, try one of mine. Believe it or not they were baked by Todd Palin!

http://www.smorgasbite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/obama-cookies.jpg

Just shows how "baked" he is.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_F-W2fFu__vA/SPAMVDc5rxI/AAAAAAAAECA/dGTiNKwoAlE/s320/obama+cookies.jpg

[Surfrider]

Just shows how "baked" he is.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_F-W2fFu__vA/SPAMVDc5rxI/AAAAAAAAECA/dGTiNKwoAlE/s320/obama+cookies.jpg

http://blog.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/2008/10/medium_dktodd.jpg

"Baked" is the word for it. He promised brownies!

[Smurf-Herder]

http://blog.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/2008/10/medium_dktodd.jpg

"Baked" is the word for it. He promised brownies!

How profound! :lmao2: