Banning smoking in the military

[Smurf-Herder]

Seems to me, it should be a guy's right to be able to have a smoke after a hard day of being shot at.

Ban on tobacco urged in military
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Pentagon health experts are urging Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ban the use of tobacco by troops and end its sale on military property, a change that could dramatically alter a culture intertwined with smoking.

Jack Smith, head of the Pentagon's office of clinical and program policy, says he will recommend that Gates adopt proposals by a federal study that cites rising tobacco use and higher costs for the Pentagon and Department of Veterans Affairs as reasons for the ban.

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20. "We'll certainly be taking that recommendation forward," Smith says.

A tobacco ban would confront a military culture, the report says, in which "the image of the battle-weary soldier in fatigues and helmet, fighting for his country, has frequently included his lit cigarette."

Also, the report said, troops worn out by repeated deployments often rely on cigarettes as a "stress reliever." The study found that tobacco use in the military increased after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said the department supports a smoke-free military "and believes it is achievable." She declined to elaborate on any possible ban.

One in three servicemembers use tobacco, the report says, compared with one in five adult Americans. The heaviest smokers are soldiers and Marines, who have done most of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the study says. About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines. Combat veterans are 50% more likely to use tobacco than troops who haven't seen combat.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

Along with a phased-in ban, the report recommends requiring new officers and enlisted personnel to be tobacco-free, eliminating tobacco use on military installations, ships and aircraft, expanding treatment programs and eliminating the sale of tobacco on military property. "Any tobacco use while in uniform should be prohibited," the study says.

The military complicates attempts to curb tobacco use by subsidizing tobacco products for troops who buy them at base exchanges and commissaries, says Kenneth Kizer, a committee member and architect of California's anti-tobacco program.

Seventy percent of profits from tobacco sales — $88 million in 2005 — pays for recreation and family support programs, the study stays.

Strong leadership could make the military tobacco-free in five to 10 years, Kizer says. President Obama, he says, could set an example for the military by ending his own smoking habit once and for all. Last month, Obama said he is "95% cured" but "there are times when I mess up" and smoke.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-07-09-smoking_N.htm

[doctordog]

How ironic that a race champion like Obama will now push policies that enslave Americans once again.

[foxbaron]

Just more evidence of the PC police.

$846 million dollars a year in costs and lost productivity. I would like to see them prove that, especially the lost productivity part.

These people are all full of crap and could care less about the few creature comforts our troops have.

I'd like to see them go to a battlefield and tell some Marine he can't have a smoke after he just got done killing and maiming the enemy in hand to hand combat and watching his buddies dying all around him.

Bet they would get a bayonet shoved up their ass.

What's next? No beer or whiskey allowed by our troops? No caffiene products like, coffee and coke. No burgers or food that just might make you fat. No hookers. No hanging around ugly people. Bedtime at 8:00 PM?

Should they share their bar of soap and toothbrushes with each other? Two to a bunk? No farting while in foreign countries?

Why did they even waste our money on this dumb ass study? Sure smoking is not good for you. SO WHAT.

[T-Cat]

Just more evidence of the PC police.This is common place in the military which puts numerous restrictions on how its members can act and what they can do.

$846 million dollars a year in costs and lost productivity. I would like to see them prove that, especially the lost productivity part.

These people are all full of crap and could care less about the few creature comforts our troops have.

I'd like to see them go to a battlefield and tell some Marine he can't have a smoke after he just got done killing and maiming the enemy in hand to hand combat and watching his buddies dying all around him.

Bet they would get a bayonet shoved up their ass.

What's next? No beer or whiskey allowed by our troops?The largest number of US troops in combat duty (Iraq) are banned from consuming alcohol. Big thumbs up to General Odierno who allowed them 2 beers each during the superbowl this February.

No caffiene products like, coffee and coke. No burgers or food that just might make you fat. No hookers.Troops in Iraq are banned from having sex with the local population, that falls under General Order one as well.

No hanging around ugly people. Bedtime at 8:00 PM?

Should they share their bar of soap and toothbrushes with each other? Two to a bunk? No farting while in foreign countries?

Why did they even waste our money on this dumb ass study? Sure smoking is not good for you. SO WHAT.I agree that off duty military personal should be allowed to smoke in ventilated areas. But then again there are a lot of other things that are officially banned too that you could probably make a case for unbanning.

US forces stationed in the US cannot purchase alcohol if they are 18-20 years old unless they are stationed in a base deemed close enough to Canada or Mexico. That's another story though, a drinking age of 21 when you are otherwise legally an adult at age 18.

[Binky]

If OB is having trouble quitting (it takes a lot of will power), then what makes his followers think they'll be able to get us out of tight situations, when he can't even quit altogether? Does anyone besides myself find that interesting?:confused:

[T-Cat]

If OB is having trouble quitting (it takes a lot of will power), then what makes his followers think they'll be able to get us out of tight situations, when he can't even quit altogether? Does anyone besides myself find that interesting?:confused:What does this issue really have to do with President Obama? He didn't order the study, the Pentagon did in 2007. It's part of an ongoing effort to reduce tobacco use in the military that has been part of its policy for quite a few years now.

[mwillman]

Crazy Mike

These nimrods dont care about truth they are just looking for any reason to attack the President. If they had rational arguments they would have a foot to stand on but as far as I'm concerned they are Fucking Traitors becuase they are not looking for truth they are just looking to win back the office.

[T-Cat]

Crazy Mike

These nimrods dont care about truth they are just looking for any reason to attack the President. If they had rational arguments they would have a foot to stand on but as far as I'm concerned they are Fucking Traitors becuase they are not looking for truth they are just looking to win back the office.I wouldn't consider that being a traitor, just ignorantly blind to reality. You could count more than a few dems that were guilty of the same sort of blindness during the Bush years.

The services have already banned use of tobacco products during basic training. This isn't going to be done overnight, the report even says it would be phased in and take 5 to 10 years to achieve its goal. People in the service would have a long time to get over their addiction just like Obama likely needs.

[bluejunk44]

crazy thought, but maybe we should want our troops to be healthy

[MintJulep]

crazy thought, but maybe we should want our troops to be healthyBy force???????????????

If they want to smoke or eat a stick of butter three times a day, it is their choice, their business. That is what freedom is!! It is not the gubmint's place to determine what people do. This is absolutely deplorable.

You

[MintJulep]

crazy thought, but maybe we should want our troops to be healthyBy force???????????????

If they want to smoke or eat a stick of butter three times a day, it is their choice, their business. That is what freedom is!! It is not the gubmint's place to determine what people do.

You people cried about a "dictator" when Bush was in office. Now you've elected a real one and you're all for it like flies on shit. Absolutely amazing.

[bluejunk44]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to regulate the habits of our military in regards to health.

And who is "you people?". That's not me.

I'm perfectly OK with the military not being allowed to smoke and even government employees. Obama included.

[MintJulep]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to regulate the habits of our military in regards to health.As long as it is not infringing on the health of others, it should be up to the individual to decide what they want to partake in. What you are advocating here is a loss of freedom.

Like someone else said, what's next? Mandated bed times? Food restrictions? Unbelievable. A nanny state is never a free one. It is one in which you live like a dog with food and water, but don't ever think about leaving that yard.

[Betty Blowtorch]

By force???????????????

If they want to smoke or eat a stick of butter
three times a day, it is their choice, their business.
That is what freedom is!! It is not the gubmint's place
to determine what people do.
What a silly thing to say.

Obviously you've never been in the military.
Being in the military is not about freedom.
It's about following orders.

They tell you when to get up, when to eat,
when to start working, when to stop working.

When you're in the military, the gubmint is
your boss. They pay for your health care.
They even provide health care after you
leave the military.

The gubmint (and the taxpayers) could save
a fortune on health care costs if smoking is
banned in the military.

[MintJulep]

What a silly thing to say.

Obviously you've never been in the military.
Being in the military is not about freedom.
It's about following orders.

They tell you when to get up, when to eat,
when to start working, when to stop working.

When you're in the military, the gubmint is
your boss. They pay for your health care.
They even provide health care after you
leave the military.

The gubmint (and the taxpayers) could save
a fortune on health care costs if smoking is
banned in the military.The gubmint should not dictate what someone chooses to put in their own bodies. It is slavery within the Nanny State, pure and simple.

I'll be glad when the gubmint finally shuts down or is so broken it can barely function. It can't happen soon enough.

[Betty Blowtorch]

The gubmint should not dictate what someone chooses to
put in their own bodies. It is slavery within the Nanny State,
pure and simple.
Cool! I guess I misjudged you.

Clearly you're in favor of allowing everyone (including children)
to put heroin in their bodies... as well as methamphetamine...
crack cocaine... phenobarbitol... xanax... rat poison...

Correct? Is that your position on this issue?

[Mr. Blue]

I don't like smoking, think it's a stupid thing in the first place, and absolutely love the fact it got banned in public places.

Even though I encourage people to stop smoking, part of me still wants it to be on a voluntary basis. I'd rather have the government offer these guys some incentives to stop and not make it a mandatory thing.

They don't smoke, they get a bonus, they get longer leave time, just let them have that freedom of choice in the matter. The little quote of, "lost productivity" kind of annoyed me. These guys aren't machines, they should have some say in the personal vices they pursue, and where does it stop? If this is a "stress reliever" they better find a replacement, like weed, lol.

[MintJulep]

Cool! I guess I misjudged you.

Clearly you're in favor of allowing everyone (including children)
to put heroin in their bodies... as well as methamphetamine...
crack cocaine... phenobarbitol... xanax... rat poison...

Correct? Is that your position on this issue?Nicotine is not an illegal substance. Poor analogy.

[bluejunk44]

those others are very legal

there's a lot of things you can do to yourself that's very harmful and legal

the military should obviously not allow its members to do those things

[MintJulep]

those others are very legal

there's a lot of things you can do to yourself that's very harmful and legal

the military should obviously not allow its members to do those thingsI'm sorry but crack is not legal. If someone has a prescription from a doctor, they are entitled to take whatever drugs they choose. It is not up to the government to decide what legal substance someone puts in their own body. It is nanny state slavery.

[bluejunk44]

Again, there's a lot of harmful things one can do to themselves that's legal. Whether it's ingesting a substance or some other activity.

The military should not be allowed to do those things. It makes perfect sense why not.

Our military should require the utmost quality health for its members. Tobacco products are extremely harmful. It would make perfect sense to completely ban Tobacco products for not only the military, but government employees as well. That includes Obama.

[Mr. Blue]

Again, there's a lot of harmful things one can do to themselves that's legal. Whether it's ingesting a substance or some other activity.

The military should not be allowed to do those things. It makes perfect sense why not.

Our military should require the utmost quality health for its members. Tobacco products are extremely harmful. It would make perfect sense to completely ban Tobacco products for not only the military, but government employees as well. That includes Obama.

Shouldn't that be a choice though? I'm not in the military, don't plan on being in the military, so my thoughts on smoking and whether or not it should be allowed or not is irrelevant to the discussion. It should be a matter that takes active servicemen and letting them make the decision.

What's funny is, this board has had numerous "legalize marijuana" threads and most people are for that, yet allowing men in the military to smoke and we want to enforce a standard upon them that we don't want on our own freedoms.

We start with the military, then what? The war on drugs...we add a junior branch and call it the War on Smoke? The War on (fill in the blank) generally doesn't work.

Simply have an incentive based system to get these people to stop, if they don't want to, they don't get the incentives, etc.

[Bill Cosby]

How ironic that a race champion like Obama will now push policies that enslave Americans once again.
How is he enslaving them???? Once again???? (drama queen smiley here)

[Bill Cosby]

By force???????????????

If they want to smoke or eat a stick of butter three times a day, it is their choice, their business. That is what freedom is!! It is not the gubmint's place to determine what people do. This is absolutely deplorable.

You

having quite many years ago it is my hope & prayer that no one smoke tobacco........

But I agree that if you are in the military they should not pull that on you......

& I would also add drinking as well........... Which I do not advocate...

If you are old enough to fight & die for this country you damn well should be old enough to buy a beer & a cigar or cigarette........

IMO if you are to young or naive to make a judgment relating those these "substances" you damn sure should not be rePing this country carrying around a gun......

[flying carpet]

This is more people control bullshit!

All in the name of saving money, my ass

[T-Cat]

Nicotine is not an illegal substance. Poor analogy.Neither is alcohol but they ban combat troops from consuming it.

Sex isn't illegal but it is banned by the military in Iraq as well. And right now you will get tossed out for homosexual sex which isn't illegal.

Pornography isn't illegal but it is banned by the military in Iraq as well.

[MintJulep]

Again, there's a lot of harmful things one can do to themselves that's legal. Whether it's ingesting a substance or some other activity.

The military should not be allowed to do those things. It makes perfect sense why not.

Our military should require the utmost quality health for its members. Tobacco products are extremely harmful. It would make perfect sense to completely ban Tobacco products for not only the military, but government employees as well. That includes Obama.Absolutely insane. You may be willing to give up your freedom because your little tin God says so but I won't . As long as you aren't harming anyone else, it should be your right to use whatever you choose to. I hate the government and I want it out of my life and destroyed.

[T-Cat]

I'm sorry but crack is not legal. If someone has a prescription from a doctor, they are entitled to take whatever drugs they choose.

It is not up to the government to decide what legal substance someone puts in their own body. It is nanny state slavery.But it is up to the government to decide what is a legal substance and what is not. That is the very definition of a nanny state.

Why do you have to be 21 to purchase and consume alcohol when you are legally an adult at 18?

[ROdger Right]

But it is up to the government to decide what is a legal substance and what is not. That is the very definition of a nanny state.

Why do you have to be 21 to purchase and consume alcohol when you are legally an adult at 18?

Pure and unfaltering campaign for power is what it is.

Legal at 21 and all states must comply or do with out any federal money. Gun to head situation eh

It amazes me how tolerent or whatever you wish to call it, but smokers in the milatary, I now of an old guy was in long ago still smokes like a chimney but can out hunt and trek any of you myself included.

[T-Cat]

Pure and unfaltering campaign for power is what it is.

Legal at 21 and all states must comply or do with out any federal money. Gun to head situation ehWhomever did that was obviously a fascist and hated freedom.

It amazes me how tolerent or whatever you wish to call it, but smokers in the milatary, I now of an old guy was in long ago still smokes like a chimney but can out hunt and trek any of you myself included.That's a little too antidotal. For every person who smokes like a chimney and lives vigorously to an old age there are many that die far too young from a variety of diseases caused by smoking.

[bluejunk44]

I am for legalizing all drugs, not just pot.

In the case of the military, I believe their health and even eating habits should be well regulated. They perform an important government function and it's to the benefit of us all that they are in top condition.

[doctordog]

Nicotine is not an illegal substance. Poor analogy.

What do you expect from a stupid IBEX, I guess it has inhaled too much smog!:D

[T-Cat]

I am for legalizing all drugs, not just pot.You crazy liberal, you must be stoned. ;)

In the case of the military, I believe their health and even eating habits should be well regulated. They perform an important government function and it's to the benefit of us all that they are in top condition.You have a point, it is a job different from many others as it often requires dangerous physical activity that also involves a great deal of shared risk with others around you.

If a soldier could smoke and still perform as well as others would you still have a problem?

[ROdger Right]

Just a curious question pertaining with this topic, does the smoker or non smoker have higher sucidal rates in the miltary?

[T-Cat]

What do you expect from a stupid IBEX, I guess it has inhaled too much smog!:DBut the logic of her argument fails otherwise. She is dead against a nanny state but it is exactly a nanny state that decides which drugs are legal and which aren't.

[T-Cat]

Just a curious question pertaining with this topic, does the smoker or non smoker have higher sucidal rates in the miltary?Smokers in the military have a higher suicide rate than non-smokers.

http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/ajep/abstract.00000429-200006010-00004.htm;jsessionid=KZ2G1GpWQXDfc2yZsY0kxQTqL6RJn pMyB0nrvr6jLHvfpgYhYCYB!-1466262180!181195629!8091!-1

The authors examined the relation between cigarette smoking and suicide by conducting a cohort study of 300,000 male US Army personnel followed prospectively from January 1987 through December 1996 for 961,657 person-years. They found that the risk of suicide increased significantly with the number of cigarettes smoked daily (p for trend < 0.001). In multivariable-adjusted analyses, smokers of more than 20 cigarettes a day, compared with never smokers, were more than twice as likely to commit suicide. For male active-duty army personnel, the dose-related association between smoking and suicide was not entirely explained by the greater tendency of smokers to be White, drink heavily, have less education, and exercise less often.

[ROdger Right]

Now that you have shown me this it is obvious that in no way has any connection. thank you

I say that because of combat experiance, which is a very understandable reason to start smoking in the first place.

[T-Cat]

Now that you have shown me this it is obvious that in no way has any connection. thank youWhy wasn't it obvious before?

I say that because of combat experiance, which is a very understandable reason to start smoking in the first place.Then why don't all combat veterans smoke? Many do not.

Nor does that explanation indicate a reason for why there isn't a connection. Just because A (combat experience) causes B (smoking), it doesn't mean that B (smoking) doesn't increase the likelihood of suicide. All it means is that the stress of combat might make more people smoke. It doesn't mean the smoking isn't harmful, stress makes people do a lot of things that are harmful.

Perhaps people that can handle the stress without smoking are also less likely to commit suicide.

[ROdger Right]

Exactly.

Kind of blurted out the question

[SeniorChief]

Today's "PC" world -

Can't have a cigarette.

But two guys can get married.

Pathetic.

[CONFLICTS]

Take it up with the liberals in the fucking PENTAGON, morons. This will be their doing.

Smokers are fucking idiots anyway.

[bluejunk44]

You crazy liberal, you must be stoned. ;)

You have a point, it is a job different from many others as it often requires dangerous physical activity that also involves a great deal of shared risk with others around you.

If a soldier could smoke and still perform as well as others would you still have a problem?

I suppose one of the problems is that a smoker can't perform at the level of a non-smoker. For those who take part in some type of physical activity, the non-smokers will probably do it better. For those who have a sitting job of sorts then it would be less of an impact, but the desire to go smoke would probably distract them more often than a non-smoker might be.

But in any case, Tobacco products are extremely harmful to the body. I think our military has enough to worry about without killing themselves. I'd rather them be as healthy as possible and not addicted to any substances.

Being the wacko socialist communist fascist that I am (quite a trick), I would take it much further. I would regulate their diet as well. Now, obviously this isn't always possible given particular circumstances, but where applicable I would have them eating 99% unprocessed fruit and vegetables along with grass-fed meat and wild fish. It would probably cost more.

[Smurf-Herder]

I suppose one of the problems is that a smoker can't perform at the level of a non-smoker. For those who take part in some type of physical activity, the non-smokers will probably do it better. For those who have a sitting job of sorts then it would be less of an impact, but the desire to go smoke would probably distract them more often than a non-smoker might be.

But in any case, Tobacco products are extremely harmful to the body. I think our military has enough to worry about without killing themselves. I'd rather them be as healthy as possible and not addicted to any substances.

A personal take on that.

My ex told me Christopher was awarded more citations in his unit than anyone else, while deployed in Iraq. He also qualified as second highest in his unit as a sharp-shooter. And he didn't start smoking until he joined the Army.

So IMO, it depends on the individual.

[Binky]

Hmmm.....I'm surprised they don't come up with a similar line as "don't ask, don't tell," ah, let me see, like "don't smoke, breathe." :lmao2:

[mwillman]

When I was in the Army I knew a guy that got two weeks restriction to barracks becuase he got a bad sun burn. When you join the military you give up many of your rights. So if the military thinks smoking is to expensive to treat and has to many negative effects on the soldiers then they are in their rights to limit it.

[ROdger Right]

If they ban smoking does that effect chewing tabacco I wonder?

[Bill Cosby]

When I was in the Army I knew a guy that got two weeks restriction to barracks becuase he got a bad sun burn. When you join the military you give up many of your rights. So if the military thinks smoking is to expensive to treat and has to many negative effects on the soldiers then they are in their rights to limit it.

Yep you are legally government property.......... I recall getting a warning for getting a tat.... They told me if it got infected I would get an article 15 & fined..
As some others pointed out smoking is only one part-factor in performance... I smoked then & was in much better shape than many, but admittedly not as in good a shape as I could have been.........

Perhaps they can lay it out that going forward being a smoker will disqualify you from joining but I don't think recruiting is so good that they can start being picky...........


Also, as I said, regardless of age these ppl are adults..

They were mature enough to sign up they are mature enough to decided on the substances they put in their body..............

IMO denying them this "right" is dishonorable......

If they go to a draft someday they gonna make ppl quite this legal habit??

[MintJulep]

Good for you, Bill Cosby.

[Mr. Blue]

Yep you are legally government property.......... I recall getting a warning for getting a tat.... They told me if it got infected I would get an article 15 & fined..
As some others pointed out smoking is only one part-factor in performance... I smoked then & was in much better shape than many, but admittedly not as in good a shape as I could have been.........

Perhaps they can lay it out that going forward being a smoker will disqualify you from joining but I don't think recruiting is so good that they can start being picky...........


Also, as I said, regardless of age these ppl are adults..

They were mature enough to sign up they are mature enough to decided on the substances they put in their body..............

IMO denying them this "right" is dishonorable......

If they go to a draft someday they gonna make ppl quite this legal habit??

Good post.

You know, I personally don't want to neuter any group from their legal personal vices. I like people being able to think for themselves at times, even if it's not the wisest choice, because do we really want people to have no thoughts of their own?

[mwillman]

We are talking about the military.
They just might want someone that doesn't think.

[Hog Trash]

Only under a liberal democrat administration would such a thing ever be suggested.

Compliance through the eniciation of force....Violaters will be court martialed!

[CONFLICTS]

eniciation

What is it with all the old fogey conservatives on here spelling like third graders?

[MintJulep]

It certainly isn't limited to conservatives. Some libs here have even more challenged spelling and grammar. One in particular does not know the difference between "our" and "are". Now that's pretty bad.....

[CONFLICTS]

Might I add both of your signatures are really stupid.

[MintJulep]

I think mine is fairly apt, considering the circumstances.....

[doctordog]

Might I add both of your signatures are really stupid.

Welcome dumbass!;)

[Hog Trash]

Welcome dumbass!;)It appears another one has jumped in the boat, screamin clean-me, cook-me, eat-me!

Fishin is gettin so good around here we no longer even hafta throw a line in the water.

[CONFLICTS]

Is that redneck-ese, grandpa?

Sorry, we're all too busy working and paying your social security to go to the ole' fishin' hole.

[Hog Trash]

What is it with all the old fogey conservatives on here spelling like third graders?
Is that redneck-ese, grandpa?

Sorry, we're all too busy working and paying your social security to go to the ole' fishin' hole.Hey Smurf!...Are us old folks protected by political correctness like the homosexuals, negroes and muslims?

I think this peckerwood is scrimnatin me cuz of my age! :confused:

[Smurf-Herder]

Hey Smurf!...Are us old folks protected by political correctness like the homosexuals, negroes and muslims?

I think this peckerwood is scrimnatin me cuz of my age! :confused:

Actually, that would be covered under the general "personal attack" rule.

[CONFLICTS]

negroes

Seriously, what decade are you in right now?

Jesus Christ. I can't wait until this bullshit from your generation is completely gone as opposed to just laughably outdated.

[GetAClue]

Seriously, what decade are you in right now?

Jesus Christ. I can't wait until this bullshit from your generation is completely gone as opposed to just laughably outdated.
That's ok. We can't wait until you grow up, get a job, have a family and become responsible for something other than logging on to mommy and daddies computer to post blithering nonsense. :lmao2:

[Bill Cosby]

That's ok. We can't wait until you grow up, get a job, have a family and become responsible for something other than logging on to mommy and daddies computer to post blithering nonsense. :lmao2:

What is worse: Making racial, sexual innuendo, slurs & the like or criticizing the comments made by those that do???

[GetAClue]

What is worse: Making racial, sexual innuendo, slurs & the like or criticizing the comments made by those that do???

I don't see how either one brings anything to the table other than anger. Neither does anything to address the issues that affect us most.

However, I have to somewhat defend HT. I may not agree with his style, but I understand what he is saying. He is pointing out that is seems that it is ok to slam certain groups of people, but when it comes to some “protected” classes of people it offends the politically correct crowd. The same people that attack HT and others for their disagreement with homosexuality, will attack conservative white males and think nothing of it.

[Bill Cosby]

Well he has used highly offensive language against certain groups......

What racial or sexual slurs have been made against white males here???

Ppl should not be using racial/sexual slurs against others period...... Smurf has even talked about hate speech in general.......

Is there a double standard in our society??? Sure there is. Is there a society that does not have double standards???

hog, you , me smurf we can't do anything about that but that does not give any of us license to demean or disparage ppl cause we don't like it or them...

[GetAClue]

Well he has used highly offensive language against certain groups......

What racial or sexual slurs have been made against white males here???

Ppl should not be using racial/sexual slurs against others period...... Smurf has even talked about hate speech in general.......

Is there a double standard in our society??? Sure there is. Is there a society that does not have double standards???

hog, you , me smurf we can't do anything about that but that does not give any of us license to demean or disparage ppl cause we don't like it or them...
I think for the most part, we agree on this. I'm just willing to cut people a little slack. I understand the point that Hog is trying to make and pretty much agree with him. He just states it differently that I would. But that's just me. I agree with some of the things you have said also, but I would have used my own way of saying it.

Oh well, let's just not get so caught up in it that we loose site of the issues that are most important to all of us.

[Bill Cosby]

I think for the most part, we agree on this. I'm just willing to cut people a little slack. I understand the point that Hog is trying to make and pretty much agree with him. He just states it differently that I would. But that's just me. I agree with some of the things you have said also, but I would have used my own way of saying it.

Oh well, let's just not get so caught up in it that we loose site of the issues that are most important to all of us.

:thumbsup:

[opinionator]

This continuing attack on smokers and incursions into our private lives should mortify all of us.

Shrieking 'environmentalist' maniacs are one of the chief reasons we are in a financial crisis, and they have upped the ante with this proposed legislation (cap and trade).

The subject of this thread combines two of the favorite liberal positions: seething hatred for our military and the impositionof their twisted enviro-agenda.


.

[Bill Cosby]

This continuing attack on smokers and incursions into our private lives should mortify all of us.

Shrieking 'environmentalist' maniacs are one of the chief reasons we are in a financial crisis, and they have upped the ante with this proposed legislation (cap and trade).

The subject of this thread combines two of the favorite liberal positions: seething hatred for our military and the impositionof their twisted enviro-agenda.


.

Why not go post your pet peeves in a thread that apply to them....

Makes no sense to cram all that into a smoking thread......

[Zebulon0351]

The subject of this thread combines two of the favorite liberal positions: seething hatred for our military....


.

Good ol' John McCain's voting record against the veterans says something completely different.

[Hog Trash]

Originally Posted by Hog Trash

negroesSeriously, what decade are you in right now?

Jesus Christ. I can't wait until this bullshit from your generation is completely gone as opposed to just laughably outdated.First it was negro followed by colored followed by afro-american followed by african american followed by black followed by people of color and now back to either african american or black.

Seeing as how Americans of African descent seem to always have an identity problem and confused about what they prefer to be called, it is just easier to simply stick to the original...Negro.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Negro
Negro is a racial term applied to black Africans, Black people.

However, prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s,

the appellation was accepted as a normal formal term both by those of African descent as well as non-African blacks.

"Negro" means "black" in Spanish and Portuguese, and the Italian "nero" is similar (Latin: niger = "black").

*

[Bill Cosby]

Good ol' John McCain's voting record against the veterans says something completely different.

Yea before the elections I had no idea so many vet groups had issues w/ him.......

Some of them hate the man w/ a passion..