Will Obama be re-elected in 2012???

[Hog Trash]

This is from a thread I posted in August 08.
http://www.dcjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=5655

Simply answer either true or false to the 13 questions and count them.

It is a formula to predict if an incumbant will be re-elected...It claims 100% accuracy.

The 13 Keys to the White House

The Keys are statements that favor the reelection of the incumbent party. When five or fewer statements are false, the incumbent party wins. When six or more are false, the challenging party wins. See also: Campaign Watch: Keys to the White House http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p...atch__the.html


KEY 1 (Party mandate): After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.

KEY 2 (Contest): There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.

KEY 3 (Incumbency): The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.

KEY 4 (Third party): There is no significant third party or independent campaign.

KEY 5 (Short-term economy): The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.

KEY 6 (Long-term economy): Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.

KEY 7 (Policy change): The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy.

KEY 8 (Social unrest): There is no sustained social unrest during the term.

KEY 9 (Scandal): The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.

KEY 10 (Foreign/military failure): The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.

KEY 11 (Foreign/military success): The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.

KEY 12 (Incumbent charisma): The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.

KEY 13 (Challenger charisma): The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allan Lichtman is a history professor at American University. He has written six books. His most recent books are The Keys to the White House: 2008 Edition and White Protestant Nation: The Rise of the American Conservative Movement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 13 Keys to the White House

The Keys also have profound implications for presidential politics in the United States. If candidates understood that governance, not campaigning, counts in elections, we would have a chance to break America’s endless cycle of empty, scripted, consultant-driven campaigns. Candidates could fire the hucksters, speak from the heart to the American people and advance their vision of the future. They could also use the campaign to develop the grassroots support needed to advance their policies during the next four years.
Four things to pay particularly close attention to in the coming months.

[1] Obama's failures and accomplishments, especially the economy?

[2] Will there be a power shift in the 2010 mid-term elections?

[3] Will Obama loose his charisma in the coming months?

[4] Will his opponent be considered charismatic?

[The Professor]

outstanding post, thanks!

in normal times there are about a dozen paramaters that shape our political landscape

y'know, the border, abortion rights, gay marriage, guns...

these are NOT normal times

americans (you must always put yourself in MOM's high heels) have but ONE THING on their minds THESE DAYS---

the economy, the economy, the economy

if unemployment numbers are high, either in nov, 2010 or/and in nov, 2012, then obama bigears the already irrelevant is dead

if employment figures improve, the gop has no chance

it's all that SIMPLE

CRISIS is like that---it SIMPLIFIES things

which is why all this OBSESSION over MINUTIAE---like mr sanford or ms palin or BECK (LOLOLOL!)---just cracks UP The aristophanic Prof

pure gossip, petty politics

in TIMES like THESE!

LOLOLOL!

ie, THEY DON'T GET IT

which is fine, they're funny folks

unemployment numbers, i'm sorry to tell you, are on the CREST of exploding

an entire WAVE of city, state and municipal employees is about to hit the pink slip

ask a school teacher

LOL!

CA, my state, has managed to avoid the PAIN, by hook and crook, til NOW

but not anymore

starting just about NOW

ahnold says 60G jobs

gavin so-good-looking newsom (according to ktvu news broadcast live from jack london square) says 6G---at the CITY level

more than 100G PROFESSIONAL jobs---good pay, bennies, perks, AIR CONDITIONED OFFICES (LOLOL!)

gone

POOF!

NOW!

CA surely aint alone

michigan for sure and florida probably are worse

sorry

obama bigears is in big trouble

his stimulus aint working---according to obama bigears

and biden---on yesterdays MTP (meet the press)---said, hey, we got it wrong, we misread how bad it was at the start

LOLOLOL!

cap and trade is a massive job KILLER---thank GOD it's dead

his entire agenda is dead---there's your charisma

it's a week later and The patient Prof is still expectantly anticipating the ONE dcj POSTER who can name the ONE bigeared agenda plank NOT dead

LOLOL!

but he sympathizes, appreciates the physical impossibility

oh well

enjoy mikey's funeral---WHEE HEE HEE!

LOLOL!

[kres24GT]

The most likable candidate almost always wins. Whether you agree with his policies or not, Obama is a likable guy, He enjoys a beer, he likes sports, he's a family guy. Republican candidates are pretty much all stiffs or morons, he should win pretty easily.

[radioguy]

The most likable candidate almost always wins. Whether you agree with his policies or not, Obama is a likable guy, He enjoys a beer, he likes sports, he's a family guy. Republican candidates are pretty much all stiffs or morons, he should win pretty easily.

Yes... that winning smile is the most important thing... Fuck all the damage he's doing to the country.

[The Professor]

LOLOLOL!

sure, the economy is tanked

people are outta their homes

their retirements are worthless

they have no faith in the leader to address THE ECONOMY

but they think his daughters are cute

LOLOLOL!

he's NOT likeable by the way

he's insufferably arrogant

always posing like RUSHMORE

which wouldn't be so bad if he knew what the heck he was doing

repeatedly preempting american idol

with that CHIN

LOLOLOL!

if he's so likeable, why are the PRESS turning?

[kres24GT]

Yes... that winning smile is the most important thing... Fuck all the damage he's doing to the country.


Right or wrong that is the way it is. Reagan, Clinton, Bush II, all these guys were very likable and Bush I only won because he ran against Dukakis. Not saying it is right, but the presidency is all a popularity contest.

[The Professor]

likeability is a HUGE factor in american politics, absolutely

HUGE

the ECONOMY these days is far bigger

in normal times you'd be more correct

america would elect the meanest SOB they hated if they thought he could get us outta this mess

that said, obama is NOT liked

ask 44 dems in nancy's house who brayed nay to cap and trade

ask NINETY (LOLOLOL!), umm, SENATORS (LOLOL!) who CALLED HIM OUT over gitmo

MISTER president, they challenged, if you're gonna close CLUB MED, why, you gotta at least, y'know, have a PLAN for, umm, y'know---HOW? WHERE? WHY? WHEN?

LOLOLOL!

yeah, real likeable

CHAVEZ doesn't even LIKE him

LOLOL!

called him COMRADE COMMIE

ie, STABBED his skinny back

and after all that OUTREACH (for the BOOK)

bigears obama's own party doesn't really like him

the media don't like him

and no one fears (ie, respects) him

which is why he's Already Irrelevant

NAME ONE PLANK OF HIS PLATFORM STILL IN PLACE

cap and trade, public option, diplomacy with iran, blaming bush...

investigating "torture," closing gitmo, nancy's stimulus, the reachout to rogues...

deficits at 12.65% of gdp, keynesian suicide

rendition, detention, lobbyists, taxes for those under 250, taxing med benefits (the mccain plan)...

that's pretty much his ENTIRE AGENDA

except for simplifying the tax code

LOLOLOL!

putting med records online

LOL!

y'know, the big stuff

he's shot his wad in just over 150 days precisely because he's not likeable

that, and his stunning stupidity

most INEPT pol at the national level america has ever produced

he had SIXTY (LOLOLOL!) senators

an adoring media

BOTH houses

a whole world just rockin OUT for him

all GONE

not real effective, huh?

sorry, lobes lovers

but it's really not my fault

The persistent Prof repeatedly attempted to premonish him

LOLOL!

[SeniorChief]

Hopefully he'll be impeached before 2012

[xav8terx]

Hopefully he'll be impeached before 2012


For what jackass? Ruining your life?

[SeniorChief]

For what jackass? Ruining your life?

His ILLEGAL war(s) for starters.
Illegal syping.
Illegal detention.

The buck stops with him, asshole.

[mwillman]

His ILLEGAL war(s) for starters.
Illegal syping.
Illegal detention.

The buck stops with him, asshole.


You are such a fucking nimrod.

What you glorified in Bush you want to Impeach President Obama for.

As to the Topic, Yes President Obama will be reelected in 2012 and there's not much you right wing nut jobs can do about it.

You lost your credibility when you elected Bush twice and trashed the nation.

[hdmarketing]

His ILLEGAL war(s) for starters.
Illegal syping.
Illegal detention.

The buck stops with him, asshole.

Hey, isn't that funny, those are the smae things they tried to get Bush on:lmao2:

What you glorified in Bush you want to Impeach President Obama for.

See what I mean...

What a bunch of 'In Cow Poops", What a bunch of "Gulla Bulls" (bugs bunny)...

:taunt:

[SeniorChief]

Hey, isn't that funny, those are the smae things they tried to get Bush on:lmao2:



Yeah, no shit. Obama is doing the same damned thing and he's getting praised by the media.

Seen a good war protest lately?

How about a Code Pinko demonstration, less the ones seen in here daily.

[xav8terx]

His ILLEGAL war(s) for starters.
Illegal syping.
Illegal detention.

The buck stops with him, asshole.


Holy shit man, you are fucked in the head. Seek help ASAP!!!! :banghead:

[SeniorChief]

Holy shit man, you are fucked in the head. Seek help ASAP!!!! :banghead:

Who should take responsibility for the items I mentioned, jackass???

Don't tell me....

Begins with a "B" huh ??

Imbecile....

[Mason66]

I think just as many will vote against Obama in the next election than voted against Bush this time.

[Bill Cosby]

Yeah, no shit. Obama is doing the same damned thing and he's getting praised by the media.

Seen a good war protest lately?


Well I would have to agree as I have observed this as well... (most often & w/ exceptions the media is usually playing along w/ the whitehouse)

Many of those opposed to the wars are now "less vocal", less pronounced about the opposition to it, more patient for it to "end someday".....

If something is wrong- it is wrong.....>>> Regardless of which party is doing it..

Often times folks put partisanship/ideology before, not after that....

[foxbaron]

The most likable candidate almost always wins. Whether you agree with his policies or not, Obama is a likable guy, He enjoys a beer, he likes sports, he's a family guy. Republican candidates are pretty much all stiffs or morons, he should win pretty easily.


Palin is a likable woman. She enjoys a beer I am sure. She is a family person, especially when you consider she didn't abort her own kid. SHe likes sports. SHe likes guns. She hunts, she fishes. She can kill, gut and cook a moose, something Obama probably couldn't or wouldn't do.

She understands self-reliance, responsibility and accountability, something that Obama is unfamiliar with.

She certainly is not a moron nor stiff and she certainly is better looking than Obama on his best day.

AND, Americans like her, she is one of us, unlike Obama who is one of "them".

[Binky]

An encombants re-electability always depends on how well the economy is doing under his watch. Plain and simple, it ALWAYS comes down to money. Therefore, if the economy is doing very well, then OB will be re-elected, otherwise, not.

[Bill Cosby]

Yep that is usually how it goes. SO if he wins all the wars (see bush Sr) & is the herO of Afghanistan, wackistan & IraQ it won't mean a thing... They ain't voting............

Bring the bacon home............

[mwillman]

An encombants re-electability always depends on how well the economy is doing under his watch. Plain and simple, it ALWAYS comes down to money. Therefore, if the economy is doing very well, then OB will be re-elected, otherwise, not.

I agree to a certain degree,

FDR was elected 4 times even though the economy was not completely recovered by the time of his second election.

I think that as long as people beleive that things are getting better they will reelect a president.

[Smurf-Herder]

I agree to a certain degree,

FDR was elected 4 times even though the economy was not completely recovered by the time of his second election.

I think that as long as people beleive that things are getting better they will reelect a president.

I remember how H.W. Bush was not re-elected because of the "read my lips, no new taxes" statement; after he was forced to raise taxes. Even after winning the Gulf War (the ground war part) in only four days with minimal casualties.

Now it looks like Obama is in exactly the same position, except he hasn't won anything.

So, it will be interesting to see if his charisma and in-the-tank media will override people's thinning wallets and bank accounts.

[doctordog]

I remember how H.W. Bush was not re-elected because of the "read my lips, no new taxes" statement; after he was forced to raise taxes. Even after winning the Gulf War (the ground war part) in only four days with minimal casualties.

Now it looks like Obama is in exactly the same position, except he hasn't won anything.

So, it will be interesting to see if his charisma and in-the-tank media will override people's thinning wallets and bank accounts.

His charisma proved to be nothing but a snow job, America will not be the fool again except for willman, he will be the fool over and over.

[Smurf-Herder]

His charisma proved to be nothing but a snow job, America will not be the fool again except for willman, he will be the fool over and over.

But how many other millions are there out there, believing all the good press?


I think the real question is, are we sure there will even be a 2012 election?

Could some "crisis" postpone it?

[Bill Cosby]

What is your reference to???

[Hog Trash]

What is your reference to???What an ignorant response Cosby....You try so hard to come across as intelligent.

If you knew how obvious you are you would be embarrassed....Try relaxing and using what you have.

[bluejunk44]

republicans need Obama to fail, which means the country gets worse, in order to take back power

so as a republican you either want:

1. The country to get even shittier and get power back

or

2. The country to do better and not get back power


you can guess which it is by the tone of conservatives

[MintJulep]

For the past eight years the loony left has salivated over the thought of losing a war and sided with terrorists all because they hated Booooooooooosssssssssssssshhhhh.

Give me a break. Take a look in the mirror.

[The Professor]

tone

LOLOLOL!

what republicans WANT

LOLOL!

it's up to LEADERSHIP to SILENCE opposition by being SUCCESSFUL

instead, my side is getting louder and louder

in tone (LOLOL!)

it's bigears who's being forced into silence

his entire agenda is dead

from cap and trade to the public option

from closing gitmo to investigating "torture"

from diplomacy with iran to ending rendition

etc, etc, etc

the most incompetent POL at the national level america has ever produced is actively EMPOWERING his critics with his every overreach and misstep

it's because he's too much a pelosi CLONE

pelosi-politics do not extrapolate beyond polk street

it's because when bigears was first inaugurated---with BOTH houses, a whole world in his vociferous, TONAL (LOLOL!) corner, SIXTY senators, a THRILLED media

fully mandated to take on a CRISIS which NO ONE BLAMES HIM FOR

ideally set up to LEAD

and what did he do?

he spent 3 weeks gossiping about that gossip rush

and then let ms p write HIS stimulus, ensuring that the result be the opposite of CHANGE any normal person could BELIEVE in

in midst of CRISIS he couldn't be MORE business as usual

in time of EMERGENCY he couldn't appear more petty, partisan and political

exactly opposite of LEADERSHIP

and he hasn't made a RIGHT MOVE since

don't blame OPPOSITION for his being such a DUMBO

tone---LOLOLOL!

[stefan segal]

I am greatly pleasured to read this nonsense carried on three pages by the clueless oposition.

You people haven't the foggiest notion about what government is about...good governance or bad. In fact, you loudly applaud bad governance...but being clueless...that doesn't signify much.

I hear a lot of slurs against liberals...I personally can match and raise those slurs against conservatives, but in inspecting the field of complaints, it becomes glaringly apparent that Dems push for justice for others, while repugs fight to empower themselves...the power to circumvent justice for all.

You repugs have a long history of ill will...fought against Lincoln, and both Roosevelts...Teddy and FDR, killed the Kennedys, impeached Clinton...the list goes on...foreward and back in our history.

It seems our flavor of democracy produces a strain of lying shitheels, that are either at your feet ( when caught outright ) or at your throat ( when they pull off some treasonous or another.).

That the garbage-minded can be so delusional as to question a second Obama term, makes me chuckle with an evil glee. By rights, this discussion should be about an Obama third term...ala..FDR.

I find it intriguing that you repugs only register that you lost...and are lost, but cannot recognise superior abillities and stellar character traits in your president or gargantuan efforts to right the imbalances produced by repug leadership...which repugs lauded and enabled.

Carry on...please. This is so entertaining...especially chief...hilarious :)

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

That the garbage-minded can be so delusional as to question a second Obama term, makes me chuckle with an evil glee. By rights, this discussion should be about an Obama third term...ala..FDR.

I find it intriguing that you repugs only register that you lost...and are lost, but cannot recognise superior abillities and stellar character traits in your president or gargantuan efforts to right the imbalances produced by repug leadership...which repugs lauded and enabled.

StefanStefan, I'm afraid you may have mistaken a few conservatives with no party affiliation as being republicans, seeing how the GOP no longer represents conservatism.

Also I have been asked by liberals how I can judge Obama's presidency after so little time in office...I will ask you the same question regarding your comment that he should maybe serve a third term?

[The Professor]

I am greatly pleasured to read this nonsense carried on three pages by the clueless oposition.

You people haven't the foggiest notion about what government is about...good governance or bad. In fact, you loudly applaud bad governance...but being clueless...that doesn't signify much.

I hear a lot of slurs against liberals...I personally can match and raise those slurs against conservatives, but in inspecting the field of complaints, it becomes glaringly apparent that Dems push for justice for others, while repugs fight to empower themselves...the power to circumvent justice for all.

You repugs have a long history of ill will...fought against Lincoln, and both Roosevelts...Teddy and FDR, killed the Kennedys, impeached Clinton...the list goes on...foreward and back in our history.

It seems our flavor of democracy produces a strain of lying shitheels, that are either at your feet ( when caught outright ) or at your throat ( when they pull off some treasonous or another.).

That the garbage-minded can be so delusional as to question a second Obama term, makes me chuckle with an evil glee. By rights, this discussion should be about an Obama third term...ala..FDR.

I find it intriguing that you repugs only register that you lost...and are lost, but cannot recognise superior abillities and stellar character traits in your president or gargantuan efforts to right the imbalances produced by repug leadership...which repugs lauded and enabled.

Carry on...please. This is so entertaining...especially chief...hilarious :)

Stefan

tone---LOLOLOL!

lincoln and teddy were repugs, honey

the kkk was dem

the impeachment of andrew johnson

radical republican reconstruction

ie, occupation of the solid dixiecrat south

ended only by the bargain of 1876---tilden/hayes

the mugwumpy former governor of new york was sposedly pigeon holed as mckinley's vp, promoted but by an assassin's bullet

to be lectured by a two plus two equals fiver

in tone

LOLOLOL!

[SeniorChief]

That the garbage-minded can be so delusional as to question a second Obama term, makes me chuckle with an evil glee. By rights, this discussion should be about an Obama third term...ala..FDR.

Hey Commie - a third term??? :lmao2:

This jackass (Obama) will be IMPEACHED prior-to 2012.

His list of crimes grows each day.

[Binky]

Since we have over three years to go, and plenty of time left on his watch, I think I'll wait and reserve my opinion on that one until a much later date. Whose to say how much more damage is going to be done between now and then? :banghead: He may do so much damage that the people will want to ride him out of office on a rail. Only time will tell.

[Hog Trash]

Hey Commie - a third term??? :lmao2:

This jackass (Obama) will be IMPEACHED prior-to 2012.

His list of crimes grows each day.I don't see impeachment happening Chief....Even the senseble people with that power, fear the backlash of the whacko liberal extremist and especially black Americans of which most judge Obama only by his race....Remember Marion Barry?

[Zebulon0351]

I don't see impeachment happening Chief....Even the senseble people with that power, fear the backlash of the whacko liberal extremist and especially black Americans of which most judge Obama only by his race....Remember Marion Barry?

I could name a few fucktards in here who voted against him solely because of his race.. the door swings both ways Hog

[bairdi]

I don't see impeachment happening Chief....Even the senseble people with that power, fear the backlash of the whacko liberal extremist and especially black Americans of which most judge Obama only by his race....Remember Marion Barry?
"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

No president nor vice president in the past six months has committed treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Exactly what are the grounds you clowns are going to use to impeach him? Sensible people fear what you right wing wackos stand for more than they fear anything that Obama is doing.

[doctordog]

I could name a few fucktards in here who voted against him solely because of his race.. the door swings both ways Hog

and that many more that voted for him because of his race

[stefan segal]

Stefan, I'm afraid you may have mistaken a few conservatives with no party affiliation as being republicans, seeing how the GOP no longer represents conservatism.

Also I have been asked by liberals how I can judge Obama's presidency after so little time in office...I will ask you the same question regarding your comment that he should maybe serve a third term?

Hi, Hog...I remember you denying being arepug before...I thnk you claimed to be a libertarian...it makesno differrence, a rose is a rose by any name, and make make all the jiggs and jags that identify repugs...only a more friendly and civil rendition. I don't think much of libertarian "humanity" either, although they don't lie as much as repugs.

I read your posts and wonder how you became so paranoid and suffer such evil conspiracies all wrought by liberal nut jobs. What is in that bottle you feed upon...maybe it's time to thnk about weaning yourself away from that brain-rotting process.

You're a smart guy...what makes you think anyone...ANYONE... is targeting you and your act? (other than the IRS).

To answer your question about Obama's short reign in the oval office and how I can be so certain of his merits, It is a simple matter of judgement. Why don't you ask a horse trader how he arrives at his bid price...?

I don't know what limitations you suffer that you could contrive such a question, for my own part, I was allerted to OBama's superiority from his speach at the democratic convention four years ago.

Having been burnt by Bill Clinton's sell out in his second term, I was cautious about emotionally putting my trust in his character and promise. I watched him closely for him to break out of character...I didn't believe someone could be as mature and civilized as Obama presented himself. I found the man to be solid, a far better specimen than I am equipped to judge...but what I do register and understand, is that he is far better than we deserve...an Abe Lincoln ( a president having nothing to do with the present repug party).

I'm sorry you don't get past your infirmities long enough to see the man as he is...what he is trying to do, what he is facing with the terrible destruction of our economy by the last eight years of repug stewardship ( read treachery, treasonn and theft).

Stefan

[Binky]

I agree to a certain degree,

FDR was elected 4 times even though the economy was not completely recovered by the time of his second election.

I think that as long as people beleive that things are getting better they will reelect a president.



And when they hear jingles in their pockets, rather than having a moth fly out, they are certainly much more apt to reelect a president. I suspose on occasion they put one thru a second time if he's done a really good job.

[bluejunk44]

i'm hoping for a law that prevents a presidential campaign from starting more than 6 months before the election

can we please not do the 2 year campaign thing again

[Bill Cosby]

i'm hoping for a law that prevents a presidential campaign from starting more than 6 months before the election

can we please not do the 2 year campaign thing again

I would like to see something like that to......... 2 + years of campaigns is nuts. But madison ave is surely against anything of the kind.

[Hog Trash]

Hi, Hog...I remember you denying being arepug before...I thnk you claimed to be a libertarian...it makesno differrence, a rose is a rose by any name, and make make all the jiggs and jags that identify repugs...only a more friendly and civil rendition. I don't think much of libertarian "humanity" either, although they don't lie as much as repugs.It's true that I am a libertarian conservative for which the republican party does not represent my political views...Why would I support a party that doesn't share my political ideology?

The GOP, like the Democrats, promotes large government, taxes and spending not to mention their violations of the constitution and their corruption now rivals that of the democrat party.

You seem to believe that liberals and the democrat party have the market cornered on "humanity"...Conservatives are every bit as compassionate as the left but simply don't believe the government should mandate, middle man and control their charities.

The Federal Government is far to bureaucratic, inefficient, wasteful and corrupt to be trusted with social programs or anything for that matter not specified as government reponsibility by the constitution.

I read your posts and wonder how you became so paranoid and suffer such evil conspiracies all wrought by liberal nut jobs. What is in that bottle you feed upon...maybe it's time to thnk about weaning yourself away from that brain-rotting process.

You're a smart guy...what makes you think anyone...ANYONE... is targeting you and your act? (other than the IRS).My "paranoia" stems from the fear of the liberal marxist ideology and it's socialist agenda which is totally alien to one who believes in the conservation of a capitalist republic, equal opportunity, prosperity and freedom.

Irrational fear is paranoia.....Rational fear is a survival tool....It is hard-wired from birth by the creator or simply genetics, whichever you choose to believe.

To answer your question about Obama's short reign in the oval office and how I can be so certain of his merits, It is a simple matter of judgement. Why don't you ask a horse trader how he arrives at his bid price...?

I don't know what limitations you suffer that you could contrive such a question, for my own part, I was allerted to OBama's superiority from his speach at the democratic convention four years ago.We are both horse traders Stefan and one of us is right and one is wrong but someday one of us will realize what the other has known all along.

Having been burnt by Bill Clinton's sell out in his second term, I was cautious about emotionally putting my trust in his character and promise. I watched him closely for him to break out of character...I didn't believe someone could be as mature and civilized as Obama presented himself. I found the man to be solid, a far better specimen than I am equipped to judge...but what I do register and understand, is that he is far better than we deserve...an Abe Lincoln ( a president having nothing to do with the present repug party).

I'm sorry you don't get past your infirmities long enough to see the man as he is...what he is trying to do, what he is facing with the terrible destruction of our economy by the last eight years of repug stewardship ( read treachery, treasonn and theft).

StefanI was not burnt by Clinton...I saw in him a man who cared for nothing but himself, wealth and power...He did do some good but that changes nothing of the mans character.

I have watched Obama and studied him and his history closely, Stefan....Red flags go up every time I see his face or hear his voice and his first 6 months in office has confirmed my worst fears.

[Surfrider]

Without a doubt, guaranteed reelection.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/01/30/Obama%20Biden%20joke.jpg

[Hog Trash]

I could name a few fucktards in here who voted against him solely because of his race.. the door swings both ways HogIf there was someway to know for sure I would give a hundred to one odds that for every person who voted against Obama because he was black, a hundred voted for him because he was.

Why do you think young people were registering to vote that never was interested in politics before this election?...I would say more young people voted than anytime since the voting age was lowered to 18.

Use your common sense....Black music and culture has become very popular among people under 30 in the last two decades...White people in general of all ages just aren't that racist any longer.

I'm sure many here are sure I'm a racist, including you most likely....Minority racism is much more prominant now days.

[bluejunk44]

there's gonna be bumps along the way. But, if Obama manages to get health care passed and the economy at least improves somewhat then he's gonna get elected to a second term for sure.

[GetAClue]

there's gonna be bumps along the way. But, if Obama manages to get health care passed and the economy at least improves somewhat then he's gonna get elected to a second term for sure.
If he gets health care passed, it along with Cap and Trade will bankrupt what is left of our economy. Then it will be a matter of whether or not he suspends the election process due to the "economic crises" that he caused. I agree with Smurf that we may not even get a chance to have an election in 2012 if he is able to pass these economy killing bills.

[Hog Trash]

there's gonna be bumps along the way. But, if Obama manages to get health care passed and the economy at least improves somewhat then he's gonna get elected to a second term for sure.Why don't you take responsibility for yourself and buy your own health insurance, BJ44?

Unless of course you are disabled in which case there is already medicaid and medicare.

[bluejunk44]

I'm covered medically and have always been. Wanting to see health care reform with a public option is more about seeing those without get covered. It's also about seeing those with coverage spend less money.

For some reason the opposition keeps ignoring the truth. Everyone is already paying an extremely high price for other's medical "coverage". When someone goes to the ER and doesn't pay the bill that will most likely effect you in some way. A lot of people are forced to do this.

So unless someone is going to support a law that forbids people getting treatment at an ER without paying upfront, then you should be supporting reform with a public option. It won't cost more than what you are already paying. It will cost less.

There are two very simple, basic reasons why it will cost less. This is without even considering the other things dems will hopefully be doing:

1. Uncovered or poorly covered people will stop ignoring minor health issues. They will get those problems taken care of before they become huge problems that cost astronomical amounts at overcharging hospitals. That's both short term costs and long term care costs.

2. A visit to the local family doctor is a lot cheaper than the ER.

The next task is reigning in dentist bills.


If he gets health care passed, it along with Cap and Trade will bankrupt what is left of our economy. Then it will be a matter of whether or not he suspends the election process due to the "economic crises" that he caused. I agree with Smurf that we may not even get a chance to have an election in 2012 if he is able to pass these economy killing bills.

If you believe this then you believe the USA is doomed regardless of what we do.

The only reason that can't be true is if you think oil and oil products will not raise in prices and that oil is an unlimited resource.

[The Professor]

you're arguing principles

ie, abstractions in your head

no one really cares what you or i think

politics, pushing stuff thru, is based on power

the public option is DEAD

so why ruminate about it?

it's dead cuz baucus said so

he said the cbo refused to provide cooperative numbers

he bawled, back to the drawing board

the details of his plan were unstomachable

at a cost of $1.6T, he still left 35 of 52 million uninsured

remember?

he also forced 23 million to make presumably unwelcome changes

and he failed to insist that only legal citizens be covered

which is all why tom daschle, who woulda been med missionary if he'd paid his taxes like an honest democrat, declared the public option dead

you, despite your quality as a thinker and a human being, are wasting everyone's time arguing for and dreaming about that which already has been shown to have no chance of coming true

reality trumps abstraction, at least in my book

[bluejunk44]

we don't need a public option in order to reign in medical cost. i'd rather see one, but there are other ways to do it.

if we do it he republican and coward dem way then things stay the same, people keep going without, and many with coverage keep going broke from medical costs. and everyone else keeps paying for other's medical bills anyways because of trips to the ER.

that's a very bad attitude to have in any case. if you just toss your hands up and say nothing can be changed then we'd still be a british colony.

[stefan segal]

It's true that I am a libertarian conservative for which the republican party does not represent my political views...Why would I support a party that doesn't share my political ideology?

The GOP, like the Democrats, promotes large government, taxes and spending not to mention their violations of the constitution and their corruption now rivals that of the democrat party.

You seem to believe that liberals and the democrat party have the market cornered on "humanity"...Conservatives are every bit as compassionate as the left but simply don't believe the government should mandate, middle man and control their charities.

The Federal Government is far to bureaucratic, inefficient, wasteful and corrupt to be trusted with social programs or anything for that matter not specified as government reponsibility by the constitution.

My "paranoia" stems from the fear of the liberal marxist ideology and it's socialist agenda which is totally alien to one who believes in the conservation of a capitalist republic, equal opportunity, prosperity and freedom.

Irrational fear is paranoia.....Rational fear is a survival tool....It is hard-wired from birth by the creator or simply genetics, whichever you choose to believe.

We are both horse traders Stefan and one of us is right and one is wrong but someday one of us will realize what the other has known all along.

I was not burnt by Clinton...I saw in him a man who cared for nothing but himself, wealth and power...He did do some good but that changes nothing of the mans character.

I have watched Obama and studied him and his history closely, Stefan....Red flags go up every time I see his face or hear his voice and his first 6 months in office has confirmed my worst fears.

You as a libertarian, aren't really quallified to rate your level of humanity...which of course, is a libertarian view.

As a liberal, I judge libertarians as those who would rather citizens in need to die in the streets rather than allow the government to offer help...all to save one of their private dollars...a description of a 'hooray for me' shitheel "citizen".

Our differences in our opinion, as displayed here, wellspring from the differences in our opinion of what constitutes community.

Your individualists viewpoint of community, might include government sponsored and paid for roads, police, firemen, but not other common needs such as medical care, unemployment, and social welfare...why is that?

It seems to me that you only approve of community services of which you personally profit, and all the rest can starve or die..."better to give them character".

This might surprise you, but communities occur on a curve...the highest ( living behind their gates) to the lowest incomes...a large percentage of which are sentenced to poverty for life by such as you and your ideas of personal greed combined with social programs to educate and supply those with jail time a second chance.

I can almost hear you poo pooing giving criminals a second chance to enter society. This attitude of yours (like your other opinions) is extremely short sighted. For you and your ilk to block such social movements, is to sentence criminals to either do the drudge work turned down by mexicans, or continue their efforts in successful crime.

I assume you realize that of ALL the countries in the world...the USA has the greatest population behind bars than any of them,,,and that by a wide margin. I'll give you a hint...as of June 07, there were 2.3 MILLION persons behind bars. Sounds like a sizeable army of active types you wouldn't want to personally piss off.

It seems to me that an effort to reinstate these people as taxpayers would be a profitable venture...too bad you can't think long distance.

Your last statement about Obama's first six months scaring you...is not worth a reply, as your ignorance of large scale mechanics isn't up to the task.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

You as a libertarian, aren't really quallified to rate your level of humanity...which of course, is a libertarian view.

StefanYou mistake the "libertarian view" for greed and a lack of compassion, Stefan....This simply isn't true my friend.

The libertarian view simply means we do not want the government forcibly taking a persons earnings and giving them to another.

A libertarian is every bit as charitable as anyone else, we just prefer to cut out the government middleman and control our contributions ourselves.

It is much more efficient and less wasteful without government intervention, not to mention corruption and bureaucratic red tape.

By the time government purchaces a can of beans and delivers it to a hungry mouth, it cost 20 dollars...A libertarian can do it for 79 cents and get it there faster.

[Surfrider]

Looks like another one of those Republican Propaganda threads. President Obama will run, and if America is happy with the way he has kept his promises, he will win in 2012. What is the big deal, just Republican propaganda.

http://rlv.zcache.com/re_elect_obama_2012_button-p145032329484304568t5sj_400.jpg

[Bill Cosby]

You mistake the "libertarian view" for greed and a lack of compassion, Stefan....This simply isn't true my friend.

The libertarian view simply means we do not want the government forcibly taking a persons earnings and giving them to another.

A libertarian is every bit as charitable as anyone else, we just prefer to cut out the government middleman and control our contributions ourselves.

It is much more efficient and less wasteful without government intervention, not to mention corruption and bureaucratic red tape.

By the time government purchaces a can of beans and delivers it to a hungry mouth, it cost 20 dollars...A libertarian can do it for 79 cents and get it there faster.

Well I think most folks here would be in agreement w/ lots of that to some extent or another........... I am a bit of a "libertarian" myself... (The party does quite well her in Calif)..

So why not tell us just how you as a "libertarian" are gonna do this... I think you live in up state?? Is that correct??

I live in nor cal... a can of beans is about a buck here on-off sale...

Lets assume you are not feeding the mercenaries making 5 times what our men & women in uniform are getting........

SO lets say 150,000 troops...........

:thumbsup:

[stefan segal]

[QUOTE=Hog Trash]You mistake the "libertarian view" for greed and a lack of compassion, Stefan....This simply isn't true my friend.

The libertarian view simply means we do not want the government forcibly taking a persons earnings and giving them to another.

A libertarian is every bit as charitable as anyone else, we just prefer to cut out the government middleman and control our contributions ourselves.

It is much more efficient and less wasteful without government intervention, not to mention corruption and bureaucratic red tape.

By the time government purchaces a can of beans and delivers it to a hungry mouth, it cost 20 dollars...A libertarian can do it for 79 cents and get it there faster.[/QUOTE)

Hog trash...you just layed your line of shit on me that you tell your grandkids when they ask why you want people to starve.

I'm a bit worn in the tooth to believe such party trash...stories you and your ilk pass back and forth to make yourself feel like a proper citizen.

Repugs are retarded...they have an excuse...you are just being mean spirited.

You have to admit that the government takes care of a lot of problems you wouldn't give a dime in charity to effect.

If you people would apply your efforts to stopping government engendered problems, like locking everyone up for smoking pot, then trashing their life outside of jail everafter...or as Bill Cosby mentioned, the mercenaries who cost taxpayers billions, but are not under our Constitutional laws...then you would save a lot more of your dollars...and you wouldn't feelt the need to pass your lies back and forth to make yourselves feel normal.

I don't accept any of your post as being true or truthful to your actions.

Stefan

[MintJulep]

In the end, undying love for Obama will not do much for those starry-eyed, hopey-changy little sheeplets who have been out of a job since he took office. :cool:

[Surfrider]

I don't accept any of your post as being true or truthful to your actions.

Stefan

I agree Stefan, been there myself. That's why there is an "ignore" button.

[doctordog]

I agree Stefan, been there myself. That's why there is an "ignore" button.

BECAUSE YOU ARE A PUSSY!

[mwillman]

Do think caps will some how take you off his ignore list or is that just you showing your frustration?

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[stefan segal]

I agree Stefan, been there myself. That's why there is an "ignore" button.

Surfrider...I don't think this thread a serious discussion...nothing that I would want to hit the ignore button, but on the other hand, I am interested in why so many freaks here are so frantic about Obama, a president that is finallly doing some good.

I don't stop on the highways to gawk at car crashes, but I am fascinated in how sopposedly functioning people can be so mentally deranged. I guess it is somewhat alike...checking out roadkill.

How can repugs shave each morning...I don't understand how they never seem to see themselves, it is always the fault of the other guy.

When I listened daily to repugs gleefully trying to impeach Clinton....I was so embarassed for them...I was certain after the bolld orgy was over, they would realize they had acted like rabid dogs and none of them would admit to being republican...not for years.

Of course I was dead wrong...what I thought would shame them everafter...they bragged about to anyone who would listen...they are mentally twisted...so twisted that I feel the need to observe them...to see what makes them tick.

They don't appear to notice when lies come flowing out of their mouths...I guess they have some clever name for lying that includes 'creative engineering' or some such verbal nonsense.

They think their 'swiftboat' efforts to slander and degrade their oppositon is clever, and well worth the millions they spend creating their filthy lies...remember butch swiftboating mccain? Said he had a black lovechild, when everyone knew his wife adopted the baby...anyway there were no sex visits at maccain's prison. "great stuff!" blew mccain right out of the primary.

My thought is if you don't invest some time observing them, you won't know how low to look to protect yourself from their creative efforts.

Stefan

[Surfrider]

They don't appear to notice when lies come flowing out of their mouths...
Stefan

Oh my God, I am about to have an adult conversation for the first time since I have been on the boards. In addition I get to express my views in an honest manner, and I don't have to dream up some smart remark, like fifth grader, to end the post.

I am an educated man, but not a PhD. I believe in science, not the hocus pocus of miracles. I do think there are things mankind can not explain, and the answer is not in a black book filled with stories. I believe in God, and I believe God wants us to solve our own problems, not pray for miracles. I am inclined to believe in guardian angels.

I used to believe education was the answer to the problems of this nation, but there is an "ignorance is bliss" attitude out there that will probably prevent that. I know I will be attacked for saying this...but what the hell. There are useless people, ignorant people, and greedy people who are holding the rest of us back. These are not good people, we need to get rid of them in some legal manner. Maybe we could let them start their own country in the southern states, most of them are already there anyway. After they have their confederate states we could economically crush them. Make them a third world country, and forget about them. Then of course we would do everything we could to assist developing nations.

I am tired of seeing money as king. It is only a tool to build things. Everyone should have basic needs fulfilled. And, there must be a chance for people to improve their jobs, homes, education, etc.

There is one person in this web site who is consumed by worry that she is going to have to pay for her neighbor's day care or something. I think she is a greedy person, but she does make a point. We liberals are not great at solving the problem of people who are too lazy to work. Now, we are not talking about people with disabilities who should be in our nation's top priorities. We are talking about slackers. I say you try to educate them. If that fails it, is tough love. You make them work using whatever means the LAW allows.

I hated George W. Bush, but I always called him "Mr. President." Today, POTUS is Mr. Barack Obama, and he will continue to be president until at least January 21, 2113. When I see people with "no respect for the office of the president," I hurt them in the threads, or ask others to do it. Those people are animals and should be caged.

One final thought, my greatest pleasure in this message board madness, is sticking it to Republicans in the threads about how they lost the election, and that they destroyed their own party. Their tears come right through their cryptic words. Republicans are animals, not people. Thank you for this opportunity to express myself. This time I will not be defending my words, I think I have made my position clear.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EZDS8cznPWg/RhbKxpaQO3I/AAAAAAAAAN4/T3qSVuGqgNQ/s320/cryingMan.jpg

[Hog Trash]

Hog trash...you just layed your line of shit on me that you tell your grandkids when they ask why you want people to starve.

I'm a bit worn in the tooth to believe such party trash...stories you and your ilk pass back and forth to make yourself feel like a proper citizen.

Repugs are retarded...they have an excuse...you are just being mean spirited.Again my friend, Hog is not a republican. :thumbsup:

You have to admit that the government takes care of a lot of problems you wouldn't give a dime in charity to effect.This is true Stefan, but someone like you would.

It all works out better in the end without government involvement.

Waste, corruption, inefficiency and bureaucratic red tape...They can't even deliver the mail on time.

If you people would apply your efforts to stopping government engendered problems, like locking everyone up for smoking pot, then trashing their life outside of jail everafter...or as Bill Cosby mentioned, the mercenaries who cost taxpayers billions, but are not under our Constitutional laws...then you would save a lot more of your dollars...and you wouldn't feelt the need to pass your lies back and forth to make yourselves feel normal.

I don't accept any of your post as being true or truthful to your actions.

StefanLibertarians agree with you and have solutions for these problems also.

These solutions consist mainly of taking power from the government, not giving them more.

[MintJulep]

I know I will be attacked for saying this...but what the hell. There are useless people, ignorant people, and greedy people who are holding the rest of us back. These are not good people, we need to get rid of them in some legal manner. Maybe we could let them start their own country in the southern states, most of them are already there anyway. After they have their confederate states we could economically crush them. Make them a third world country, and forget about them. Then of course we would do everything we could to assist developing nations. You are forgetting one major --HUGE-- piece of the puzzle. Taxpayer dollars. Since republicans are not the ones on the gubmint dole and usually work for what they get, you will be SOL when all you have are people sitting in that wagon but no one to pull it. The lazy bums will have to start growing their own food, or something. :lmao2:

Please knock yourself out. I'd LOVE to see THAT.

[Bill Cosby]

Since republicans are not the ones on the gubmint dole

Sure they are.......... We givin wall street trillions.......... sounds like dole to me........

Farm subsidies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oil subsidies.... Robbiest up the ass getting their pet projects in there........

[Hog Trash]

Sure they are.......... We givin wall street trillions.......... sounds like dole to me........

Farm subsidies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oil subsidies.... Robbiest up the ass getting their pet projects in there........So am I to assume if we took the Wall Street bankers, corporations, oil, farmers, etc etc, of the government toll you would no longer be for redistribution of wealth through government socialist programs or is this all just a smoke screen?

[Bill Cosby]

So am I to assume if we took the Wall Street bankers, corporations, oil, farmers, etc etc, of the government toll you would no longer be for redistribution of wealth through government socialist programs or is this all just a smoke screen?

Not sure exactly what your stabbing @ here but less' assume a pro quo....

Lower/lessen each side in equal measure or some semblance there of....

IF this is what our libertarian self is hinting @ then well that is what I am hinting @ to.......

If redistribution is bad then it is bad- for corporations as well as ppl.......

[Hog Trash]

Not sure exactly what your stabbing @ here but less' assume a pro quo....

Lower/lessen each side in equal measure or some semblance there of....

IF this is what our libertarian self is hinting @ then well that is what I am hinting @ to.......

If redistribution is bad then it is bad- for corporations as well as ppl.......LOL!...Where could you have ever gotten the idea I was for corporate welfare?

Do you even know what a libertarian is?...We are for no form of welfare or socialism!

Zero...Ziltch...Nada...To forcibly take one persons earnings and give it to another is stealing.

The fact that government does it, doesn't make it any less of a criminal act...Stealing is stealing.

I have absolutely no desire for quid pro quo concerning wealth redistribution...End it all, now and forever.

You know very little if anything of libertarians or conservatives!...It's obvious you know very little of politics, period.

You have been thoroughly indoctrinated into the ideology of marxism and I'm not even sure if you're aware of it.

Because of this you are sure you have all the answers without knowing much of anything...You feel you know all you need to know.
If redistribution is bad then it is bad- for corporations as well as ppl.......Yes, it is bad for "corporations as well as ppl".

[Bill Cosby]

Well think what you like................... I know to much bout it as I was it for many years............

I am now reformed....

Your reply, as w/ most of your opinions is extreme.........

You wanna go from one extreme to the other............. & not bothering to consider the consequences...

I see no need to bother trying to reason w/ you...........

You can comfort yourself by believing it is others that "don't know nothin" when you are in fact blinded & oblivious to the obvious shortcomings of your archaic positions...

Have a good week..........

[CONFLICTS]

If republicans continue to show the political savvy and wit I'm seeing around this message board, I would assume the GOP isn't getting near the presidency in at least another decade.

They're just too fucking stupid, everyone with any sense jumped ship.

[MintJulep]

Gee, seen the unemployment numbers lately? When no one has a job or any money, even the most devout Obamazombies will jump ship............

Wait for it.

[Bill Cosby]

Nice new avatar.... Sexy.....lol

Economics will be a big, big factor.........

Unemployed folks are gonna voe their pocketbooks...........

[stefan segal]

Oh my God, I am about to have an adult conversation for the first time since I have been on the boards. In addition I get to express my views in an honest manner, and I don't have to dream up some smart remark, like fifth grader, to end the post.

I am an educated man, but not a PhD. I believe in science, not the hocus pocus of miracles. I do think there are things mankind can not explain, and the answer is not in a black book filled with stories. I believe in God, and I believe God wants us to solve our own problems, not pray for miracles. I am inclined to believe in guardian angels.

I used to believe education was the answer to the problems of this nation, but there is an "ignorance is bliss" attitude out there that will probably prevent that. I know I will be attacked for saying this...but what the hell. There are useless people, ignorant people, and greedy people who are holding the rest of us back. These are not good people, we need to get rid of them in some legal manner. Maybe we could let them start their own country in the southern states, most of them are already there anyway. After they have their confederate states we could economically crush them. Make them a third world country, and forget about them. Then of course we would do everything we could to assist developing nations.

I am tired of seeing money as king. It is only a tool to build things. Everyone should have basic needs fulfilled. And, there must be a chance for people to improve their jobs, homes, education, etc.

There is one person in this web site who is consumed by worry that she is going to have to pay for her neighbor's day care or something. I think she is a greedy person, but she does make a point. We liberals are not great at solving the problem of people who are too lazy to work. Now, we are not talking about people with disabilities who should be in our nation's top priorities. We are talking about slackers. I say you try to educate them. If that fails it, is tough love. You make them work using whatever means the LAW allows.

I hated George W. Bush, but I always called him "Mr. President." Today, POTUS is Mr. Barack Obama, and he will continue to be president until at least January 21, 2113. When I see people with "no respect for the office of the president," I hurt them in the threads, or ask others to do it. Those people are animals and should be caged.

One final thought, my greatest pleasure in this message board madness, is sticking it to Republicans in the threads about how they lost the election, and that they destroyed their own party. Their tears come right through their cryptic words. Republicans are animals, not people. Thank you for this opportunity to express myself. This time I will not be defending my words, I think I have made my position clear.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EZDS8cznPWg/RhbKxpaQO3I/AAAAAAAAAN4/T3qSVuGqgNQ/s320/cryingMan.jpg


Surfrider...Kind of shocking to see agreement and frustration in the same degrees as I would apply them...my second thought, was that you sounded like an sctivist.,.,as I resemble that, I was taken aback...as they once said.

I wouldn't give up the South so easily...my pet plan is to fence off "the lone star state", and dump in all the idiot repugs and others who'd rather we ran a dictatorship rather than a republic.

To rid societly of repugs would go a long way toward halving our mental health and sexual devients from our population...,a striking 'twofer'.

Seriously, you penned a good post. What you didn't touch on, is what I believe is the core of the debate.

I believe the core problem causing varient POVs here is that repugs and even those who trouble themselves to think and consider their POV...like Hog, don't accept the reality of a population.

If we process everything dualistically, then 'good' can't exist without 'bad'...so if we fight to marginalize or even erradicate ( as did hitler when he killed all the mentally and physically unsound, gays, and gypsies...[the Jewish problem was that they had money, but couldn't defend themselves]), then the next bottom level must become the 'bad'...as good cannot exist without its opposite.

If one simply accepted the above as fact...like one must continually feed one's auto with gasoline, oil, etc., even though one has already pain for the car, then social wellfare is simply another cost of the business of society.

There are some in our population who go ballistic over the fact that the law says they must wear clothes...others, who like myself, become equally appolectic over the exclusivity of the tax on smokers...a penalty not equally shared accross our population. I understand the rational for their choosing smolers, but by the same rational. fat people, candy makers, processed food providers, etc., should also be selectively taxed for killing americans.

A line must be drawn somewhere, and I agree with Hog about the need for a line of demarcation, but unlike Hog, I see the line based upon the reality of the demographics of our population as it exists.

Our present job situation here in the USA, is throwing families...working families, out on the streets...the are NO jobs...especially for those without an adress. How in hell can one include 10% of our working poor as wastrals and so not qualified for government social welfare?

Hog's argument is blinded by his self-centeredness...aside from his acceptance of some juvenile claptrap from libertarian heaven.

Stefan

[stefan segal]

Again my friend, Hog is not a republican. :thumbsup:

This is true Stefan, but someone like you would.

It all works out better in the end without government involvement.

Waste, corruption, inefficiency and bureaucratic red tape...They can't even deliver the mail on time.

Libertarians agree with you and have solutions for these problems also.

These solutions consist mainly of taking power from the government, not giving them more.


Hog...your argument above is seriously evasive and irresponsible!

I have accepted that you call yourself a 'libertarian'...I was speaking aboiut the verbal trash you and your ilk pass amongst yourselves as being unacceptable to mentally balanced folk.

If you'd note your second response: "that I would take up your slack by funding that which you would not", doesn't this sound a bit petulant...a bit childish? It is precisely because of people like yourself, who demand to be irresponsible and immature, that the government, who IS responsible for the whole of our population, must use our tax dollars for "THE COMMON WEAL"...ever heard or thought of the meaning of that term, Hog?

Hog...you always amaze with the levels and scope of your ignorance. You really should enlighten yourself by checking out the US mail processes. Our system of handling mail is an astounding achievement of sorting handling and delivery. That yu would single out the US mail to dumop your garbage upon, tells me that you talk more effusively than you trouble yourself to either think or gather the data to form your unparralled bullshit, which you so kindly share with us on this site.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

Hog...your argument above is seriously evasive and irresponsible!I thought I was direct and to the point and in fact thought your answer was a bit "evasive and irresponsible".

I have accepted that you call yourself a 'libertarian'...I was speaking aboiut the verbal trash you and your ilk pass amongst yourselves as being unacceptable to mentally balanced folk.

If you'd note your second response: "that I would take up your slack by funding that which you would not", doesn't this sound a bit petulant...a bit childish? It is precisely because of people like yourself, who demand to be irresponsible and immature, that the government, who IS responsible for the whole of our population, must use our tax dollars for "THE COMMON WEAL"...ever heard or thought of the meaning of that term, Hog?

Hog...you always amaze with the levels and scope of your ignorance. You really should enlighten yourself by checking out the US mail processes. Our system of handling mail is an astounding achievement of sorting handling and delivery. That yu would single out the US mail to dumop your garbage upon, tells me that you talk more effusively than you trouble yourself to either think or gather the data to form your unparralled bullshit, which you so kindly share with us on this site.

StefanIn my life I have been responsible for my family, employees and the lives of men in combat...I am anything but "irresponsible and immature", my dear friend Stefan.

that the government, who IS responsible for the whole of our population, must use our tax dollars for "THE COMMON WEAL"I cannot for the life of me figure out where or how people ever got this foolish notion unless it was possibly from the teachings of Karl Marx!?!?!?!

Liberals seem to have some serious confusion issues concerning the term "Common Good/Weal"....This may possibly be a large part of the problem.

[Bill Cosby]

Some great points Stefan............:thumbsup:

He rambles on about the post office & never says a peep of how he would/could run it better........... I guess the implication is private delivery of the mail...........]

The folks in rural areas are gonna love that..........

Next he will want to privatize the police & fire......... The victim didn't pay his police protection bill & the criminal did... SO who you arrest now???

Your neighbor didn't pay his fire dept bill so they let it burn??? Perhaps endangering your dwelling???

Everyone going to the beach can afford their own life guards- if not they deserve to drown.........

The private sewer company wants to quadruple the rates so they can have a bigger bonus........ Don't like it, tuff shit, build your own sewer lines & add some water lines to cause they gonna cut that to...........

Oh & build your own roads................ :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

Liberals seem to have some serious confusion issues concerning the term "Common Good/Weal"....This may possibly be a large part of the problem.Yeah, it boils down to get a fucking job already and stop depending on those who do work.

[Zebulon0351]

Yeah, it boils down to get a fucking job already and stop depending on those who do work.

Wow.. I have a job. I bet Bill has a job as well. I have never depended on the government for any handouts whatsoever and never expect to. Why don't you take that wide-stroked brush and shove it up your ass?

[MintJulep]

Wow.. I have a job. I bet Bill has a job as well. I have never depended on the government for any handouts whatsoever and never expect to. Why don't you take that wide-stroked brush and shove it up your ass?Fact: A large portion of your "base" has a terminal case of the "gimmes". They voted for Obama because they thought they'd be getting "free shit" and a check from the "rich". Wonder how that's working out for em? lol

Take your "common weal" schtick and lazy bums and shove them up your ass. Tell the bums to get jobs and stay out of our wallets.

[CONFLICTS]

Fact: My opinion.

More like.

[MintJulep]

More like.

P36x8rTb3jI

[Hog Trash]

Wow.. I have a job. I bet Bill has a job as well. I have never depended on the government for any handouts whatsoever and never expect to. Why don't you take that wide-stroked brush and shove it up your ass?How sweet.....You are one of the loving compassionate generous liberals who will recieve nothing except the joy of giving to those less fortunate than youself.

You will graciously hand over your paycheck to the government to care for the needy and also demand that those who don't agree with you are forced to hand over their paychecks as well.

Not only do you voluteer your money but that of others....Well we certainly do appreciate the fact that you know best how to spend our money regardless of how we feel about it.

[Bill Cosby]

How sweet.....You are one of the loving compassionate generous liberals who will recieve nothing except the joy of giving to those less fortunate than youself.

You will graciously hand over your paycheck to the government to care for the needy and also demand that those who don't agree with you are forced to hand over their paychecks as well.

Not only do you voluteer your money but that of others....Well we certainly do appreciate the fact that you know best how to spend our money regardless of how we feel about it.


The strawman speeketh: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Strawman.png

demand that those who don't agree with you are forced to hand over their paychecks as well.

It would not occur to this fool if he lived another couple years & reached a hundred that we are experiencing that exact same thing........

They take our money & use it for war....... & the kids??? We PO' then...:talktothehand:

The money is going to be taken.... The issue then is were is it to spent. TO whom is it given...........

Some us believe it is better spent on wall street, GE, Haligurton, war & bombs & some believe the ppl otta get some of that.........

Let them big smart folks in Exxon find another revenue source...

"the great nation on earth", cough, cough has the highest percentage of kids living in poverty in the industrialized world......... The only industrialized nation that does not make it's citizens health a priority......

[stefan segal]

I thought I was direct and to the point and in fact thought your answer was a bit "evasive and irresponsible".

In my life I have been responsible for my family, employees and the lives of men in combat...I am anything but "irresponsible and immature", my dear friend Stefan.

I cannot for the life of me figure out where or how people ever got this foolish notion unless it was possibly from the teachings of Karl Marx!?!?!?!

Liberals seem to have some serious confusion issues concerning the term "Common Good/Weal"....This may possibly be a large part of the problem.


Hog Trash...Finally, I found the answer to one of my questions about you. I have been wondering how a person who appears to think can come up so wrong when considering the facts involved. The answer is so simple...you edit the existing elements...you disregard those elements that don't directly...DIRECTLY...touch your immediate life and the money which finances it,

Your "proof" of your responsibility and maturity, is key to how you process information.

FYI...you and I both live in a society...a population who collectively agreed to the rights and limitations which shape our country. Our country is like a club which has a cover charge...aka income tax. That money...your/our money, is handed over to management, and management spends it in making improvements which enhance the experience of the whole.
]
Hog...you seem to be a thoughtlful but limited guy...answer me this question...If by some string of events, you landed homeless and unemployed on the streets...how many days without food or a safe place to sleep, doyou think it would take you before you would turn toward some illegal activity...like smash a car window for a candy bar left on the seat?

The strongest singullar trait among our species, is our absolute will to live...along with our ability to adapt to hardship through inovative inspiration.

Not only is it cheaper to provide food and shelter for the poor than it is to jail them, it is also a character building exercize in humanity.

Not all people are jobless through their own choice...I would believe the percentage of those who do choose not to work, is very low...and I would go further, and say that a great percentage of those who are unfit or won't work, are actually made of inmates turned out of our public mental health centers.

The fed along with the state once funded care for the mentally incompetent...but some years ago...possibly the reagan years, those patients were simply turned out onto our streets...regan qualified for this treatment, but his wife had money, so he didn't get the chance to live out his vision n the streets.

I hope you don't get the opportunity to live in the world you design for the poor...your Dickin's Davy Copperfield...steal and run filthy in the streets hiding from the libertarian law.

Do you realize that making it more difficult for the poor to survive with dignity, is going to cost you PERSONALLY for a greater police force to protect your dollars, and more of your dollars to enhance the security iof your home, office, vehicles. and your own person?

Hog...you exhibit a severe case of the "smalls". You really need to wided your scope a bit. You mentioned or inferred that you have or had employees...this may be the answer to another question about you that has nagged at me...My question is: Hiow and under what circumstances could you gather an audience that would listen to your drivil, as you appear to be too cheap to make a habit of buying rounds of drinks to have them listen to your sermons...but you could move your employees to the bar without buying for them, but just saying something like "who is up for a beer?"...and not only do you gget your audience without buying them a round...there is always the possibility that one of your minions might prove the bigger man and buy you one.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

Hog Trash...Finally, I found the answer to one of my questions about you. I have been wondering how a person who appears to think can come up so wrong when considering the facts involved. The answer is so simple...you edit the existing elements...you disregard those elements that don't directly...DIRECTLY...touch your immediate life and the money which finances it,

Your "proof" of your responsibility and maturity, is key to how you process information.

FYI...you and I both live in a society...a population who collectively agreed to the rights and limitations which shape our country. Our country is like a club which has a cover charge...aka income tax. That money...your/our money, is handed over to management, and management spends it in making improvements which enhance the experience of the whole.
]
Hog...you seem to be a thoughtlful but limited guy...answer me this question...If by some string of events, you landed homeless and unemployed on the streets...how many days without food or a safe place to sleep, doyou think it would take you before you would turn toward some illegal activity...like smash a car window for a candy bar left on the seat?

The strongest singullar trait among our species, is our absolute will to live...along with our ability to adapt to hardship through inovative inspiration.

Not only is it cheaper to provide food and shelter for the poor than it is to jail them, it is also a character building exercize in humanity.

Not all people are jobless through their own choice...I would believe the percentage of those who do choose not to work, is very low...and I would go further, and say that a great percentage of those who are unfit or won't work, are actually made of inmates turned out of our public mental health centers.

The fed along with the state once funded care for the mentally incompetent...but some years ago...possibly the reagan years, those patients were simply turned out onto our streets...regan qualified for this treatment, but his wife had money, so he didn't get the chance to live out his vision n the streets.

I hope you don't get the opportunity to live in the world you design for the poor...your Dickin's Davy Copperfield...steal and run filthy in the streets hiding from the libertarian law.

Do you realize that making it more difficult for the poor to survive with dignity, is going to cost you PERSONALLY for a greater police force to protect your dollars, and more of your dollars to enhance the security iof your home, office, vehicles. and your own person?

Hog...you exhibit a severe case of the "smalls". You really need to wided your scope a bit. You mentioned or inferred that you have or had employees...this may be the answer to another question about you that has nagged at me...My question is: Hiow and under what circumstances could you gather an audience that would listen to your drivil, as you appear to be too cheap to make a habit of buying rounds of drinks to have them listen to your sermons...but you could move your employees to the bar without buying for them, but just saying something like "who is up for a beer?"...and not only do you gget your audience without buying them a round...there is always the possibility that one of your minions might prove the bigger man and buy you one.

StefanYou are a hopeless cause Stefan....I really do wish I could have helped you escape your government dependence mentality.

You are so locked into the government being the solution to all of mankinds problems that you can no longer think rationally.

There is nothing I can do for you regarding this problem....You must open your mind and look inward for the truth.

I would buy you a drink anytime my friend and if you were hungry, a good dinner....Much better than government would provide.

[Surfrider]

Waste, corruption, inefficiency and bureaucratic red tape...They can't even deliver the mail on time.
http://dclips.fundraw.com/400dir/excl_iryna_bodnaruk_36.gif

[Smurf-Herder]

Sometimes I wish we had a childrens' forum ............. :doh:

[Surfrider]

I wouldn't give up the South so easily...my pet plan is to fence off "the lone star state", and dump in all the idiot repugs and others who'd rather we ran a dictatorship rather than a republic.

Oh no, please not Texas! My wife is from Galveston, and she votes a straight Democratic ticket. The island dates to before the Civil War, and the founding of the Republic of Texas. Blue collar Houston is 45 minutes up the road, and before I was married I found it was the easiest city to get laid in that I had ever seen! Damn, I learned to surf in Galveston. I was thinking more in the area between Alabama and the Carolinas. Those whites are losers anyway. Of course we would have to relocate all our African American friends. We could give the Hilton Head resort in South Carolina to the NAACP as a sweetener??? Come on Stefan, we can work this out. Please, please, please! We should save Texas, but we can burn Crawford!

http://www.bnbfinder.com/innImages/Coppersmith_Inn_B_and_B_Galveston_Texas_28118.jpg

Actually, these are homes that have survived hurricanes in Galveston well over 100 years.

http://infomotions.com/gallery/heart-of-texas/Images/DSCN0567.jpg

[Hog Trash]

Sometimes I wish we had a childrens' forum ............. :doh:Please tell me this post was not meant for me Smurf....I have Surferboy on ignore and have no idea what he posted but was hoping this was for something childish he said.

[Smurf-Herder]

Please tell me this post was not meant for me Smurf....I have Surferboy on ignore and have no idea what he posted but was hoping this was for something childish he said.

No comment. :rolleyes:

[Hog Trash]

No comment. :rolleyes:
:mad: :rant: :banghead:

[stefan segal]

You are a hopeless cause Stefan....I really do wish I could have helped you escape your government dependence mentality.

You are so locked into the government being the solution to all of mankinds problems that you can no longer think rationally.

There is nothing I can do for you regarding this problem....You must open your mind and look inward for the truth.

I would buy you a drink anytime my friend and if you were hungry, a good dinner....Much better than government would provide.

Bill Cosby said it best...Hog, the government spends our money on war, oil and other cartels....it would be better for all of us who pay into that tax base is the money was spent on our own country. How does it profit you if your tax dollars are spent on the bombs that trash a country, then spent on rebuilding their country instead of ours?

I thank you for your generous offer to buy me a drink or dinner...tell you what, buy the next homeless person that dinner...you, he and I will feel much better if you do.

Stefan

[stefan segal]

Oh no, please not Texas! My wife is from Galveston, and she votes a straight Democratic ticket. The island dates to before the Civil War, and the founding of the Republic of Texas. Blue collar Houston is 45 minutes up the road, and before I was married I found it was the easiest city to get laid in that I had ever seen! Damn, I learned to surf in Galveston. I was thinking more in the area between Alabama and the Carolinas. Those whites are losers anyway. Of course we would have to relocate all our African American friends. We could give the Hilton Head resort in South Carolina to the NAACP as a sweetener??? Come on Stefan, we can work this out. Please, please, please! We should save Texas, but we can burn Crawford!

http://www.bnbfinder.com/innImages/Coppersmith_Inn_B_and_B_Galveston_Texas_28118.jpg

Actually, these are homes that have survived hurricanes in Galveston well over 100 years.

http://infomotions.com/gallery/heart-of-texas/Images/DSCN0567.jpg

Surfrider...I've spent some time in Housten...terrible humidity there, and absolutely lousey with the worst examples of repug crazies there, but on second thought, there are places like utah or oklahoma that are already terminally infested with repugs, the only ptoblem is fencing them off is not as neatly done as texas.

It's too bad they have no shame...it would be so easy to push their own utterances in their face and a regular person would shut down in shame for at least five years or so...but repugs don't have that function...in fact they brag about what shames normal folks.

Don't give up hope...they can't be shamed, and they can't be educated...,true, but maybe they are effected by kryptonite or some such...keep the faith.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

Bill Cosby said it best...Hog, the government spends our money on war, oil and other cartels....it would be better for all of us who pay into that tax base is the money was spent on our own country. How does it profit you if your tax dollars are spent on the bombs that trash a country, then spent on rebuilding their country instead of ours?

I thank you for your generous offer to buy me a drink or dinner...tell you what, buy the next homeless person that dinner...you, he and I will feel much better if you do.

StefanPlease Stefan, you are too educated a man to quote an idiot like Cosby....The little marxist loser is a complete moron.

It is in fact one of the few responsibilities of the government to field an army in defense of America in times of foreign aggression.

If that war turns out to be a scam then the people have a legitament beef but rerouting the money to socialist programs is not an option.

If indeed the money aloted to the military is no longer needed it should be returned to the taxpayers who earned it to be spent as they see fit.

[Bill Cosby]

Please Stefan, you are too educated a man to quote an idiot like Cosby....The little marxist loser is a complete moron.

It is in fact one of the few responsibilities of the government to field an army in defense of America in times of foreign aggression.

If that war turns out to be a scam then the people have a legitament beef but rerouting the money to socialist programs is not an option.

If indeed the money aloted to the military is no longer needed it should be returned to the taxpayers who earned it to be spent as they see fit.

Please Stefan, you are too educated a man to quote an idiot like Cosby....

Wow that is classic........... Thanks for pointing out that he quoted me..:thumbsup:

Defense can perhaps be valid but not when it turns to offense & aggression, hegemony.....

Of the industrialized countries only one does not put the health of it's citizens as "it's priority"..... (((((Although they did vote it for themselves & ppl in prison, gitmo etc....))))) The same one that has the highest percentage of children living in poverty....

Protecting us against foreign aggression is valid as is protecting us against droughts & pestilence, fire & criminality................... BUT!!!!!!!!! protecting us against disease is not...

Poor ppl should drive w/ poor eye sight cause they can't afford to have their eyes checked.......... I am sure this benefits us all....... Morticians & auto repair ppl- this helping spur the economy-:banghead:

[stefan segal]

Please Stefan, you are too educated a man to quote an idiot like Cosby....The little marxist loser is a complete moron.

It is in fact one of the few responsibilities of the government to field an army in defense of America in times of foreign aggression.

If that war turns out to be a scam then the people have a legitament beef but rerouting the money to socialist programs is not an option.

If indeed the money aloted to the military is no longer needed it should be returned to the taxpayers who earned it to be spent as they see fit.

Hog...you are too intelligent to actually believe the trype you posted above...the US armed forces...both those in the light and those clandestine, like cheny's assination squads, are considered a world police force. This is not duely unwarrented, as we claim to be the only world superpower.

This condition in which we taxpayers find ourselves embroiled, is esscentually the non participating financiers in providing the strongarm for corporate interests. In fact, this is an old process...we wound up with Hywhyi ( I can't get close enough to the spelling to use the spell check...sound it out...the hoola island in the pacific.) because we "needed" to protect Dole fruit company.

This is a common use of arms and men in the big picture...if you actually need education, then follow the movements of our navy...our navy is iour most immediate threat to 'non believers in our superiority" without overflying their airspace. We can threaten without creating an incident...except in the straights of harmooz, where Iran has a lock on the oil trade.

So Hog, as you can or should be able to see, there is no limit to our military involvement any place in the world, and no cap on the scope of which any of our thrusts and jabs might trigger...and your tac dollars are financing all this.

You say you want smaller government...if you were aware, you would alter that testimony of ignorance to: we want a program of trust busters...we want to limit the size of corporations, and treat them as taxable and responsible citizens in those place where they have bricks on the ground. Futhermore, as it stands now, corporations are without responsibility or nationality, so their interferance with our lawmakers through donation and lobbyists, is identical to the acts of a foreign government attempting to manipulate our lawmakes to make laws favorable to them...a hanging offence.

As far as Bill Cosby's credential go...I can only go by what I see...and what I see is that you avoid direct response to issues and wander off...like a kinder gentler repug...if one could imagine such a person existing.

I find that you tend to regurgitate the same juvinile fables in "answer" to some of my probes also...I can only deduce that you are fearful of direct contact and do the crablike sidewize slide. I don't blame you for this tactic...I would be beside myself if I had to defend your party line of chatter.

Hog...come out of the kiddie pool and lets debate realities...you know...boots on the ground..sort of thing.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

Hog...you are too intelligent to actually believe the trype you posted above...the US armed forces...both those in the light and those clandestine, like cheny's assination squads, are considered a world police force. This is not duely unwarrented, as we claim to be the only world superpower.

This condition in which we taxpayers find ourselves embroiled, is esscentually the non participating financiers in providing the strongarm for corporate interests. In fact, this is an old process...we wound up with Hywhyi ( I can't get close enough to the spelling to use the spell check...sound it out...the hoola island in the pacific.) because we "needed" to protect Dole fruit company.

This is a common use of arms and men in the big picture...if you actually need education, then follow the movements of our navy...our navy is iour most immediate threat to 'non believers in our superiority" without overflying their airspace. We can threaten without creating an incident...except in the straights of harmooz, where Iran has a lock on the oil trade.

So Hog, as you can or should be able to see, there is no limit to our military involvement any place in the world, and no cap on the scope of which any of our thrusts and jabs might trigger...and your tac dollars are financing all this.

You say you want smaller government...if you were aware, you would alter that testimony of ignorance to: we want a program of trust busters...we want to limit the size of corporations, and treat them as taxable and responsible citizens in those place where they have bricks on the ground. Futhermore, as it stands now, corporations are without responsibility or nationality, so their interferance with our lawmakers through donation and lobbyists, is identical to the acts of a foreign government attempting to manipulate our lawmakes to make laws favorable to them...a hanging offence.

As far as Bill Cosby's credential go...I can only go by what I see...and what I see is that you avoid direct response to issues and wander off...like a kinder gentler repug...if one could imagine such a person existing.

I find that you tend to regurgitate the same juvinile fables in "answer" to some of my probes also...I can only deduce that you are fearful of direct contact and do the crablike sidewize slide. I don't blame you for this tactic...I would be beside myself if I had to defend your party line of chatter.

Hog...come out of the kiddie pool and lets debate realities...you know...boots on the ground..sort of thing.

StefanI aggree with you about unwarranted military involvement in foreign affairs and corporate manipulation and control of government and policies that corrupt our politicians and their decisions.

I want to stop corporate welfare as well as socialist programs...I want an end to wasteful military spending...I want an end to all wasteful spending...I want accountablility in government.

The only way to do this is take the money out of the hands of government...They control so much money it is impossible to track and they like it that way...A corruption ripe atmosphere.

Return government to their constitutionally appointed duties with few exceptions...We will then once again have an efficient accountable government that is easy to monitor for waste and corruption.

If there are Americans who desire social programs let them put them on their state, county and city ballots and and keep it on a local basis...If people and businesses are dissatisfied they can relocate.

My guess is the blue liberal states like California, New York and Illinois will have more socialist programs than the redder states...People will move around and eventually settle in a state that suites their lives.

Everybody goes home happy although I think the blue states would end up with most the loosers and bums and may end up broke and in bankruptcy like Califonia and crying for bailout from the feds.


As far as Bill Cosby's credential go...I can only go by what I see...and what I see is that you avoid direct response to issues and wander off...like a kinder gentler repug...if one could imagine such a person existing.I rarely respond to anything Cosby posts...WHY you ask???...He is an idiot...Why would I waste my time on a moron...Read his post below.

It is in respose to one of my posts...It's as if he never read or didn't understand what I posted...He makes assumptions of what he thinks I believe and responds to that.

Wow that is classic........... Thanks for pointing out that he quoted me..:thumbsup:

Defense can perhaps be valid but not when it turns to offense & aggression, hegemony.....

Of the industrialized countries only one does not put the health of it's citizens as "it's priority"..... (((((Although they did vote it for themselves & ppl in prison, gitmo etc....))))) The same one that has the highest percentage of children living in poverty....

Protecting us against foreign aggression is valid as is protecting us against droughts & pestilence, fire & criminality................... BUT!!!!!!!!! protecting us against disease is not...

Poor ppl should drive w/ poor eye sight cause they can't afford to have their eyes checked.......... I am sure this benefits us all....... Morticians & auto repair ppl- this helping spur the economy-:banghead:Sorry Cosby but I have advised you to stop pretending you're so intelligent and witty and use whatever it is you actually have, whatever that may be.

[Bill Cosby]

I rarely respond to anything Cosby posts...WHY you ask???...He is an idiot...Why would I waste my time on a moron...Read his post below.
.

Funny how you didn't mind wasting your time on me before I kicked your ass up one side of this place & down the other.... :lmao2:
The top dawg.............. LMAO!!!!!

Now a whipped mutt w/ his tail between his legs pissing on the floor every time I sign on...:thumbsup:

Only one you fooling w/ lines like that is yourself.... You have been exposed for what you are..........

From the top of the food chain to the front of the line in whinning to mods for help & complaints.........

What a shame. I almost feel sorry for you....... But occasionally reading your posts always reinforces my conviction that I did the right thing....:thumbsup:

Have a nice day....:)

[stefan segal]

Hog, nice post...in fact I find it agreeable as an end result, but what is missing in your picture is that not all government expenditure is "pork", in point of fact, expenditures, ciommittees, armies and airplanes, etc., are responses to particular situations.

To make drastic cuts in our armed forces, and give way to others to stand on the top of the hill alongside us, we can't just decide to slash and burn our armed forces...we must first make coalitions with all the world's heavy hitters and spread the responsibility among them all. To do this, we must sharpen up the international laws to be more than just a notion of how to play nice. We need to run the world globally with enforceable laws and penetrable borders (by those who are certified to do so .).

If this system was in place, then the civilized of the worlld wold have the tools to stop weapon trade...to cut out nuclear weapons completely, to mediate between adversaries...to stamp out war. (by killing and maiming...)

What would shake out of this system...which would be a difficult sell, and more difficult to get up to speed than the UN dog and pony show, but our world is changing from bullets to hedge funds, and destruction is not good for business.

What will shake out of this effort, in fifty or a hundred years, will be an unarmed world with an international armed police force...most probably armed with non-lethal weapons.

We must change our R & D toward peaceful technology and away from weaponry. War, although as common as having babies, is a hidious venture, and we should be repelled by the very notion of murder and gratutitous destruction...our planet no longer has the excess material or energies to replace destroyed generations of infrastructure.

Our conflicts are shifting away from simple agressions and toward pandemic desease, flooding and shifting of populations from lowlands to higher and more fruitful ground...in other words...our ground.

Do yiou think that NYC is going to sit back and watch the ocean flood their island...not hardly. I suppose they will make dykes like the Netherlands to save the highest costing per foot property in the country.

Anyway...your midgame is pleasant, but many factors must first be put into line before there is any chance of them coming to fruition. It certainly can't be engendered by our people making a one time vote.

We did the best possible when we (I say this to generously and loosely include you...) voted in Obama...a real president, but regardless of his aspirations, he has to begin from where he stands...and that tera firma is pretty shakey after butch and his gang finished buggering the nation.

Think bigger...broader, Hog...I believe you can do it if your try.

Stefan

[Hog Trash]

I agree, government does have it's responsibilities, the military being one...They must maintain a military force, equipped and manned sufficiently enough to successfully defend against the most powerful percieved threat in the world...No more/no less.

There may be some necessary pork but government watchdogs must be in place to protect the taxpayers investments from waste and corruption with real accountablity and severe penalties for transgressions...When government is aloud to run rampent, they will.

When people start demanding good government they will recieve it instead of the long line of slick, greedy, fast talking, corrupt politicians that we have grown too accustomed to...When you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got.

[Binky]

Without a doubt, guaranteed reelection.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/01/30/Obama%20Biden%20joke.jpg


Check out the look on OBs face. He certainly doesn't look all that happy with whatever Biden is laughing at. In fact, he looks a bit snooty to me as tho' he's too good to laugh about it. He apparently doesn't approve. :D

[Surfrider]

Surfrider...I've spent some time in Housten...terrible humidity there, and absolutely lousey with the worst examples of repug crazies there, but on second thought, there are places like utah or oklahoma that are already terminally infested with repugs, the only ptoblem is fencing them off is not as neatly done as texas. Stefan

Am catching up on the thread here quickly. Let Bill Cosby do his own thing. Trash Hog is a waste of time and epitomizes the kind of useless people we want to get rid of.

You are right about the Houston climate, but it does make you want to fuck. Your idea about putting Repubs in large fenced cages in Utah and Oklahoma has merit. Those from Oklahoma are as dumb as those from Alabama. And, Utah is a sick fantasy. All are good dumping grounds for Repubs.

Perhaps I should share and idea I used to promote. Put up fences and lock the Repubs in their country clubs. Put Al Gore in charge of the food service!

http://www.chathamclub.org/images/Image/Oglethoandmainbest.jpg

[Surfrider]

Check out the look on OBs face. He certainly doesn't look all that happy with whatever Biden is laughing at. In fact, he looks a bit snooty to me as tho' he's too good to laugh about it. He apparently doesn't approve. :D

This photo was taken at a White House luncheon honoring Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Siglitz who months ago demonstrated that he did not misread the economy, but everyone else has. The Siglitz comment brought laughter to Joe Biden because he was off the hook for his remarks. President Obama's reaction was humorless as it always is to comments relating to the economy.

CBS Archives

[MintJulep]

President Obama's reaction was humorless as it always is You can say that again. That's because he has the personality of an earthworm.

And I saw what you edited out about "we will have more rough economic times ahead".

Ya think??? :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Surfrider]

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/GOP_LOGO1.jpg

You can say that again. That's because he has the personality of an earthworm.

And I saw what you edited out about "we will have more rough economic times ahead".

Ya think??? :lmao2: :lmao2:

Well as usual, I have no idea what your talking about, and wonder if you are making things up again. My post answers a question about a photo, there is no comment about the economy. I have been doing a little research for you about the death of the Republican Party. From Wikipedia follows the way the Republican predecessor, the Whig Party destroyed itself. Just thought it should be out there for the record.

The Whig Party was a political party of the United States during the era of Jacksonian democracy. Considered integral to the Second Party System and operating from 1833 to 1856,[2] the party was formed in opposition to the policies of President Andrew Jackson and the Democratic Party. In particular, the Whigs supported the supremacy of Congress over the executive branch and favored a program of modernization and economic protectionism. This name was chosen to echo the American Whigs of 1776, who fought for independence, and because "Whig" was then a widely recognized label of choice for people who saw themselves as opposing autocratic rule.[3] The Whig Party counted among its members such national political luminaries as Daniel Webster, William Henry Harrison, and their preeminent leader, Henry Clay of Kentucky. In addition to Harrison, the Whig Party also counted four war heroes among its ranks, including Generals Zachary Taylor and Winfield Scott. Abraham Lincoln was a Whig leader in frontier Illinois.

In its over two decades of existence, the Whig Party saw two of its candidates, Harrison and Taylor, elected president. Both, however, died in office. John Tyler became president after Harrison's death, but was expelled from the party. Millard Fillmore, who became president after Taylor's death, was the last Whig to hold the nation's highest office.

The party was ultimately destroyed by the question of whether to allow the expansion of slavery to the territories. With deep fissures in the party on this question, the anti-slavery faction successfully prevented the nomination of its own incumbent President Fillmore in the 1852 presidential election; instead, the party nominated General Winfield Scott, who was soundly defeated. Its leaders quit politics (as Lincoln did temporarily) or changed parties. The voter base defected to the Republican Party, various coalition parties in some states, and to the Democratic Party. By the 1856 presidential election, the party had lost its ability to maintain a national coalition of effective state parties and endorsed Millard Fillmore, now of the American Party, at its last national convention.[4]

http://zachary-taylor.navajo.cz/zachary-taylor-3.jpg

[The Professor]

the Republican predecessor, the Whig Party

LOLOLOL!

two questions, mr scholar

1. is that before or after all those "french founding documents" you were teaching us about last week?

2. was it still true way back then that all we needed to "get socialism" is "presidential approval?"

LOLOLOL!

[MintJulep]

Well as usual, I have no idea what your talking about, and wonder if you are making things up again. My post answers a question about a photo, there is no comment about the economy.There was....you edited it out. I should have captured it.

I have been doing a little research for you about the death of the Republican Party. From Wikipedia follows the way the Republican predecessor, the Whig Party destroyed itself. Just thought it should be out there for the record.

The Whig Party was a political party of the United States during the era of Jacksonian democracy. Considered integral to the Second Party System and operating from 1833 to 1856,[2] the party was formed in opposition to the policies of President Andrew Jackson and the Democratic Party. In particular, the Whigs supported the supremacy of Congress over the executive branch and favored a program of modernization and economic protectionism. This name was chosen to echo the American Whigs of 1776, who fought for independence, and because "Whig" was then a widely recognized label of choice for people who saw themselves as opposing autocratic rule.[3] The Whig Party counted among its members such national political luminaries as Daniel Webster, William Henry Harrison, and their preeminent leader, Henry Clay of Kentucky. In addition to Harrison, the Whig Party also counted four war heroes among its ranks, including Generals Zachary Taylor and Winfield Scott. Abraham Lincoln was a Whig leader in frontier Illinois.

In its over two decades of existence, the Whig Party saw two of its candidates, Harrison and Taylor, elected president. Both, however, died in office. John Tyler became president after Harrison's death, but was expelled from the party. Millard Fillmore, who became president after Taylor's death, was the last Whig to hold the nation's highest office.

The party was ultimately destroyed by the question of whether to allow the expansion of slavery to the territories. With deep fissures in the party on this question, the anti-slavery faction successfully prevented the nomination of its own incumbent President Fillmore in the 1852 presidential election; instead, the party nominated General Winfield Scott, who was soundly defeated. Its leaders quit politics (as Lincoln did temporarily) or changed parties. The voter base defected to the Republican Party, various coalition parties in some states, and to the Democratic Party. By the 1856 presidential election, the party had lost its ability to maintain a national coalition of effective state parties and endorsed Millard Fillmore, now of the American Party, at its last national convention.[4]Keep dreaming. Putting it in 4 pt font doesn't make it any more realistic. This country is center-right and those who thought they were getting checks from the "rich" are probably getting reallly pissed off about now. The Messiah's approval is in freefall and unless something turns around drastically, the mid-terms will be a cake walk.

http://classic.ycds.org/~sgyenes/WEB%20SITE%20STUFF/pictures%20and%20stuff/toast%201.jpg

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done.

Here's to 2010 And Taking back America

[Zebulon0351]

http://classic.ycds.org/~sgyenes/WEB%20SITE%20STUFF/pictures%20and%20stuff/toast%201.jpg[/CENTER]

Here's to 2010 And Taking back America

Are you implying we take back America with some zionist morally centered assbag like Reagan?

You have to be kidding me!

Reagan goes down easily as the biggest piece of shit to EVER occupy the White House.

[MintJulep]

Are you implying we take back America with some zionist morally centered assbag like Reagan?

You have to be kidding me!

Reagan goes down easily as the biggest piece of shit to EVER occupy the White House.Reagan was the greatest President EVER! NO ONE on the left has ever come close to his greatness. I can see why you are jealous.

"Zionist??" Typical Jew-hating code word from a Mooslim terrorist sympathizer. No surprise.

[doctordog]

Reagan was the greatest President EVER! NO ONE on the left has ever come close to his greatness. I can see why you are jealous.

"Zionist??" Typical Jew-hating code word from a Mooslim terrorist sympathizer. No surprise.

What, Zeb is a racist jew hating bigot? I am not suprised as his avatar looks like a NAZI fuck.

[Surfrider]

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s9HfUXwMFrM/SDGgBL6KQEI/AAAAAAAAAew/qqdLVqIZLts/s320/reagan.jpg

You really are nuts you know. You want to talk about your great Ronald Reagan? Let's talk two words:

Iran Contra

The story follows:

Reagan's Biggest Failure
Defense, Homeland Security, National Security Council, Executive Branch, Governance

I.M. Destler, Professor
Ivo H. Daalder, Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy

Financial Times
June 10, 2004 —

Much is being written about Ronald Reagan's successes in economics, politics and foreign affairs. Just as important was how he responded to his failures. In fact, Reagan's response to his greatest failure—the Iran-Contra disaster—offers important lessons for how policy is made today.


For the first six years of Reagan's presidency the foreign policymaking process looked very much like what we see today. The secretaries of state and defence pressed competing policy agendas, and their departments fought one another more than they collaborated. The president often allowed the differences to fester. The national security adviser (Reagan went through four in six years) either proved unable to forge agreement on policy or was not empowered by the president to do so.



Conflict in Washington sometimes brought disaster abroad. The greatest catastrophe of all was the Iran-Contra scandal, in which Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, a junior National Security Council aide, orchestrated an arms sale to Iran in a futile bid to bargain for the release of American hostages, then delivered the proceeds to rebels seeking to overthrow Nicaragua's government. When these illegal acts were revealed in November 1986, Reagan suffered a greater one-month plunge in public support (from 67 to 46 per cent) than any president before or since.



He appointed a presidential commission composed of people of unquestioned integrity and charged them to find out what had gone wrong. He ordered his administration to co-operate fully with the investigation, and made himself available for two long interviews. Within three months, the commission published a scathing critique, coupled with recommendations for restoring the NSC as the effective co-ordinator for foreign policy. Reagan went on national television to take "full responsibility" for the commission's findings. And he immediately set about implementing its proposals.



Under Frank Carlucci and his successor as national security adviser, Colin Powell, the NSC staff was reconstituted and its role clarified. Co-operation between agencies was restored. The organisational foundation was laid for the policy triumphs of Reagan's final years. He left office with his popularity and credibility restored.



Critical to this comeback was repairing the foreign policy machinery that had failed so disastrously. A strong NSC stood at the centre. And the national security adviser was empowered by the president to serve as an honest broker of differences between the departments of state and defence. This set the pattern for how national security policymaking would be managed in succeeding administrations—until the current one.



George W. Bush's foreign policymaking process is more akin to that which existed before the Iran-Contra affair than that that came after. Like Reagan, Mr Bush has failed to establish and empower a strong NSC capable of overcoming deep internal differences within his administration. He has anointed Condoleezza Rice as his closest foreign policy adviser, but he has not, by all accounts, pressed her to discipline his other unruly advisers. In any case, she has not done so.



As a result, the debilitating policy battles that marked the early part of Reagan's tenure have been replicated in the current administration. Among the more egregious policy failings was allowing the defence department to ignore the extensive state department preparation for a postwar Iraq in spring 2003. The results have been making headlines ever since.



Unlike Reagan, Mr Bush has so far neither acknowledged his mistakes nor acted to change the way policy is made. Imagine how different US policy and the political situation would be today if, rather than waiting until pressure became overwhelming, Mr Bush had followed Reagan's example in appointing a strong, independent commission immediately after the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 or once it became apparent that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The worst of these issues might now be behind him, not festering as he struggles for re-election.



What is the lesson here? The man elected (or re-elected) in November 2004 must return to the post-Iran-Contra model and re-establish an effective, White House-driven foreign policy process. Differences among his top advisers are fine; indeed, they are to be welcomed. But the president needs a strong NSC, headed by an adviser capable of forcing differences to the top for presidential decision and insisting that the battles end there. The president needs to support his national security adviser in this task.



In these days of fond Reagan memories, it is the sunny, happy times that come to mind. They seem far removed from today's 'war on terror' and the global crisis of confidence in American policy. But Reagan responded to adversity in a way that made him—and his nation—stronger. Perhaps today's leaders can do likewise.

[doctordog]

He post the same spam on every board.

[Zebulon0351]

Reagan was the greatest President EVER! NO ONE on the left has ever come close to his greatness. I can see why you are jealous.

"Zionist??" Typical Jew-hating code word from a Mooslim terrorist sympathizer. No surprise.

Fuck you bitch. And you call me out for spewing hate? What a load of shit.

[MintJulep]

Fuck you bitch. And you call me out for spewing hate? What a load of shit."Zionist"

That tells me all I need to know, you little hater.

[MintJulep]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s9HfUXwMFrM/SDGgBL6KQEI/AAAAAAAAAew/qqdLVqIZLts/s320/reagan.jpg


You really are nuts you know. You want to talk about your great Ronald Reagan? Let's talk two words:



Iran Contra




The Greatest President of All Time



WjWDrTXMgF8

[Surfrider]

Reagan was the greatest President EVER!

Are we having a little problem with your Reagan messiah?

What a pity. Everybody does not agree with you. Ronald Reagan was the biggest "bought and paid for big business whore" we ever had in the White House. The senile old bastard slept through most of his presidency. Reagan was an actor reading a script, he never had an original idea himself, except trying to turn a script from a 1946 movie into a real battle plan. Reagan was told what to do. He was a bigot, and the worst kind of ass-hole.

http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/reagan_bonzo.gif

[Surfrider]

WjWDrTXMgF8[/QUOTE]

Get real, everyone knows the wall came down from consistent pressure by the allies starting with President John F. Kennedy. If you are going to make this stuff up, at least make it interesting. You are a joke.

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00115/john-f-kennedy_115021t.jpg

[Zebulon0351]

"Zionist"

That tells me all I need to know, you little hater.

What? Im a hater because I recognize that the hundreds of millions of dollars we have sent to Israel has been used largely to bulldoze Palestinians' homes to build country clubs?

And we wonder why we got attacked on 9/11.

"Uh-oh.. here comes the Israeli Army, armed with American made M16's and driving American built bulldozers!!!"

So yes, I hate zionists, they have ruined our country. This "divine" calling to return all of the Jews to Israel has done nothing but made the Jews move into occupied Palestinian territory. Palestinians retaliate.. go figure.

Oh, by the way, remember what happened after the Barraks bombing in Lebanon? If you don't.. Reagan pulled out. Probably the smartest thing he ever did. HE LEFT THE COUNTRY. But in 2003, in the name of "freedom" Dubya goes off on his Democracy Spreading World Tour 2001-2009 which accomplished the following:

1. Pissed off the rest of the world
2. Killed thousands and thousands of our brave men and women
3. Provided a paved road for Hamas to gain power in Gaza.
4. Sent the world economy into the shit can.
5. Gave Al Qaeda influence in even more countries in the Middle East (Iraq)

Yay America!!!!

[doctordog]

Are we having a little problem with your Reagan messiah?

What a pity. Everybody does not agree with you. Ronald Reagan was the biggest "bought and paid for big business whore" we ever had in the White House. The senile old bastard slept through most of his presidency. Reagan was an actor reading a script, he never had an original idea himself, except trying to turn a script from a 1946 movie into a real battle plan. Reagan was told what to do. He was a bigot, and the worst kind of ass-hole.

http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/reagan_bonzo.gif

Hmmm, first picture I have seen of Reagan and Obama!:D

[Surfrider]

Let's hear it for LadyLiberty7 and her old white messiah Ronald Reagan. A man who worked every day to return America to the stone age. Let's not forget his gay son, Ron, whom he pushed back into the closet and drove into therapy.

LadyLiberty7, Hurrah for you dead white messiah from a dead political party.


http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/35500/Ronald-Reagan-Ronald-Reagan--35542.jpg

[Bill Cosby]

That pict of Reagan hurts my eyes...........

wayers. I thought the pict was mocking you...............lol

[Zebulon0351]

That pict of Reagan hurts my eyes...........

wayers. I thought the pict was mocking you...............lol

No.. if it were mocking wayner I guarantee you he would be sucking on something other than Reagan's baby bottle.

[MintJulep]

Get real, everyone knows the wall came down from consistent pressure by the allies starting with President John F. Kennedy. If you are going to make this stuff up, at least make it interesting. You are a joke.


http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00115/john-f-kennedy_115021t.jpg


Kennedy died almost twenty years before Reagan was elected. Reagan gets the credit. Were it up to the libs, they would have simply accepted and embraced communism and they thought Reagan was wrong to speak out against it.

Tell me, what was Kennedy's "tear down that wall" moment, hmmm? What EXACTLY did Kennedy DO that could be called "greatness?"

[MintJulep]

Let's hear it for LadyLiberty7 and her old white messiah Ronald Reagan. A man who worked every day to return America to the stone age. Let's not forget his gay son, Ron, whom he pushed back into the closet and drove into therapy.






LadyLiberty7, Hurrah for you dead white messiah from a dead political party.

History has already judged President Ronald Reagan and his detractors can scream from the rooftops and it doesn't make one bit of difference. RR is known as one of the greatest Presidents of all time. And you know why? Because he was a genuinely nice person and that could never be hidden from the camera.

But since you need to trash Reagan, you should know the Kennedys were nothing but trash. Even the money they came from was dirty. Garbage. Murderers, liars and philanderers, the whole lot of them.

[Zebulon0351]

Kennedy died almost twenty years before Reagan was elected. Reagan gets the credit. Were it up to the libs, they would have simply accepted and embraced communism and they thought Reagan was wrong to speak out against it.

Tell me, what was Kennedy's "tear down that wall" moment, hmmm? What EXACTLY did Kennedy DO that could be called "greatness?"

Well, he took huge steps regarding Civil Rights for one. But wait, you don't care about n*gg*rs do you?

[doctordog]

No.. if it were mocking wayner I guarantee you he would be sucking on something other than Reagan's baby bottle.

keep it up Nazi fuck, we have all watched Oz enough to know what you Nazis like.

[MintJulep]

Well, he took huge steps regarding Civil Rights for one. But wait, you don't care about n*gg*rs do you?Translation: He didn't do SHIT that compares to bringing down the Berlin wall.

Take your little crybaby, race-baiting bullshit elsewhere, Nazi. If you haven't noticed, no one gives a shit.

[Surfrider]

History has already judged President Ronald Reagan .

Your damn right history has judged President Ronald Reagan. Only a few in the dead party cling desperately to his image. And, that is all he was an actor playing an image. He wasn't real. He was a puppet.

[doctordog]

Your damn right history has judged President Ronald Reagan. Only a few in the dead party cling desperately to his image. And, that is all he was an actor playing an image. He wasn't real. He was a puppet.

like the one we have now?

[Bill Cosby]

No.. if it were mocking wayner I guarantee you he would be sucking on something other than Reagan's baby bottle.

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[The Professor]

Are we having a little problem with your Reagan messiah?

What a pity. Everybody does not agree with you. Ronald Reagan was the biggest "bought and paid for big business whore" we ever had in the White House. The senile old bastard slept through most of his presidency. Reagan was an actor reading a script, he never had an original idea himself, except trying to turn a script from a 1946 movie into a real battle plan. Reagan was told what to do. He was a bigot, and the worst kind of ass-hole.

http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/reagan_bonzo.gif

iran contra---LOLOLOL!

tell it to someone who wasn't already an old man at the time

boland amendment, baby---LOLOL!

gee, the guy who finds "life, liberty and property" in the FRENCH FOUNDING DOCUMENTS

and who also believes all that's required to "get" socialism is "presidential approval"

because he was told so over the phone by his friend, the constitutional lawyer

LOLOLOL!

that same guy, when it comes to reagan, doesn't know what he's talking about

what a surprise

reagan wrote his own stuff

years after his death it was all published---the thousands of pages of yellow legal pads filled with that familiar handwriting, that well known ideology, diction, sunny, optimistic outlook...

http://www.amazon.com/Reagan-His-Own.../dp/074320123X

from the goldwater speech in 64 thru his years as gov of CA, ronnie was ronnie, he did it all himself

if you ever read his bios, actually if you ever listened to him, for he was the source behind the bios

he developed his profound, complex worldview, which encompassed politics, economics, social policy, foreign relations, he said, while touring the nation for GE in the late 50's

after his days as prez of the SAG (screen actors guild, dummy) were thru

reagan was just an actor who read lines others wrote for him---LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

that's DUMBER than the FRENCH FOUNDING DOCUMENTS

AND the presidential approval for SOCIALISM

LOLOL!

reagan knew people, reagan knew politics, reagan knew leadership

he was loved

his funeral SPONTANEOUSLY shut down FREEWAYS

more than half a million pulled over on the side of the road just to pay respects

to the MAN

lined the sidewalk from 101 to forest lawns

hundreds of thousands, they drove to the access roads, parked goodness knows where, then hiked to stake out a square foot of concrete

that's when the media flipped on dear ronnnie

before his funeral they still hated him, they still dumped on him

after, only idiots did/do

like people who look to charlemagne to find john locke

LOLOLOL!

what a dummy

keep em coming, surfrider

your little pictures are GREAT

do more normal norms

LOLOLOL!

[The Professor]

Your damn right history has judged President Ronald Reagan. Only a few in the dead party cling desperately to his image. And, that is all he was an actor playing an image. He wasn't real. He was a puppet.

tell it to bigears, who said:


I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what's different are the times. I do think that for example the 1980 was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.


http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/01/obama_praises_ronald_reagan_as.html

[The Professor]

the berlin wall came down cuzza reagan's mere threat to develop missile defense

anyone who doesn't know about the role of sdi in gorby's thinking did not personally witness reykjavik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reykjavik_Summit

[Zebulon0351]

Translation: He didn't do SHIT that compares to bringing down the Berlin wall.

Take your little crybaby, race-baiting bullshit elsewhere, Nazi. If you haven't noticed, no one gives a shit.

I see, you don't give a shit about the Civil Rights movement. And I AM THE NAZI?

Fucking hilarious.

Remember, you said to name one thing JFK did that could be considered "greatness." You didn't ask to compare and contrast accomplishments. But I think the progression of Civil Rights for all Americans is a pretty "great" accomplishment for one president.

I know you don't understand though, you have been waiting your turn behind Wayner for Reagans "bottle"

[MintJulep]

Kennedy signed no legislation for the Civil Rights Movement. And he certainly had no "tear down this wall" moments. His legacy is the Cuban missile crisis, ahem, amongst other things......

Try again, race-baiter. That card is in tatters. Find a new schtick.

[Zebulon0351]

Kennedy signed no legislation for the Civil Rights Movement. And he certainly had no "tear down this wall" moments. His legacy is the Cuban missile crisis, ahem, amongst other things......

Try again, race-baiter. That card is in tatters. Find a new schtick.


You are a moron.

[MintJulep]

Only morons think Kennedy was even REMOTELY close to Reagan's legacy. Put simply, he didn't do shit.

[Smurf-Herder]

I believe there's a case to be made for the failed "Bay of Pigs" fiasco being the cause of the "Cuban Missile Crisis".

[Zebulon0351]

Only morons think Kennedy was even REMOTELY close to Reagan's legacy. Put simply, he didn't do shit.

Reagan's "legacy" is not worth the hairs on my nut sack. He destroyed the very meaning of the Constitution, and created an imaginary Utopia for the power-elite while neglecting the underclassed of our society.

[Bill Cosby]

I believe there's a case to be made for the failed "Bay of Pigs" fiasco being the cause of the "Cuban Missile Crisis".

Most folks wanna debate the illusions.........

IMO in some ways he was a staunch right winger as defined by them times & in some other ways he was hellA' radical for them same times.......... Maybe even radical for today's times to...

So connect the dots................:thumbsup:

[MintJulep]

Reagan's "legacy" is not worth the hairs on my nut sack. He destroyed the very meaning of the Constitution, and created an imaginary Utopia for the power-elite while neglecting the underclassed of our society.I doubt you were even born when Reagan was elected. You're repeating what you've heard from the KosKooks. Idiot.

[Zebulon0351]

I doubt you were even born when Reagan was elected. You're repeating what you've heard from the KosKooks. Idiot.

I was raised during the Reagan administration you dumb bitch. And what in the hell is KosKooks? Must be a pretty intimidating something for you apparently.

[Hog Trash]

I was raised during the Reagan administration you dumb bitch. And what in the hell is KosKooks? Must be a pretty intimidating something for you apparently.Oh my goodness young Zeb...You have turned into quite a potty mouth...Have you been hanging out with those naughty liberals?

[Surfrider]

http://nazret.com/blog/media/blogs/new/obama8.jpg
~President Barack Obama
Politicians should not use religion to insulate themselves from criticism
"I am a great admirer of our founding charter and its resolve to prevent theocracies from forming and its resolve to prevent disruptive strains of fundamentalism from taking root in this country. I think there is an enormous danger on the part of public figures to rationalize or justify their actions by claiming God’s mandate. I don’t think it’s healthy for public figures to wear religion on their sleeve as a means to insulate themselves from criticism, or dialogue with people who disagree with them.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times, “I have a deep faith” Apr 5, 2004

[The_Limit]

Getting back to the theme of this thread...Yes, I believe he will be re-elected in 2012.

Though thats not to say its impossible for him to lose.

Anything can happen.

[The Professor]

why are the little kids looking to 2012?

we have us 2 giant elections in just under 4 months

the NEW JERSEY!!! and virginia governorships

corzine polls every week down by 12 or so

corzine's GOING DOWN

creigh deeds, the guy from cumberland who has a donkey named harry s truman, the guy who whipped smiley terry mccauliffe two to one in a 3-man race just a month ago cuz deeds was deemed the most bluedog of the 3

deeds trails mcdonnell in VA by 6 or so

bigears is gonna lose TWO key states

NEW JERSEY!!! is gonna be SEISMIC

2012?

LOLOLOL!

nov 3, 2009, baby!

watch for it

like a grownup

this aint cartoons, now

LOLOLOL!

hey, and don't forget the MEANING OF CALIFORNIA

special election, may 19

66% voted down ALL FIVE state backed props

despite the hyped efforts of afscme, seiu, cta

but the real MEANING of CA---only 23% turned out

this biggest and most bellwether state in the union has QUIT

a california all FIRED UP for politics just 100 days ago

now, only apathy, despair, surrender, resignation

you have to be politically as deaf as bigears not to HEAR that

bigears IS that tin eared

afterall, he's the guy pushing for the expansion of health care to 15 million illegals---in TIMES like THESE

he's the one trying to force HUGE tax hikes via his GLOBAL WARMING PROTECTION ACT in the midst of a DEPRESSION

postively UNAMERICAN!

SUICIDE politics

no one in THIS FORUM is that dumb

bigears still stands by his pledge to meet with the leaders of iran---LOLOLOL!

he's DUMBER than the stupidest junkie

no one around here defends IP, IDENTITY POLITICS

how come?

new jersey, friends, nov 3

KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL

in other words, GROW UP

LOLOL!

[The_Limit]

why are the little kids looking to 2012?

we have us 2 giant elections in just under 4 months

the NEW JERSEY!!! and virginia governorships

corzine polls every week down by 12 or so

corzine's GOING DOWN

creigh deeds, the guy from cumberland who has a donkey named harry s truman, the guy who whipped smiley terry mccauliffe two to one in a 3-man race just a month ago cuz deeds was deemed the most bluedog of the 3

deeds trails mcdonnell in VA by 6 or so

bigears is gonna lose TWO key states

NEW JERSEY!!! is gonna be SEISMIC

2012?

LOLOLOL!

nov 3, 2009, baby!

watch for it

like a grownup

this aint cartoons, now

LOLOLOL!

hey, and don't forget the MEANING OF CALIFORNIA

special election, may 19

66% voted down ALL FIVE state backed props

despite the hyped efforts of afscme, seiu, cta

but the real MEANING of CA---only 23% turned out

this biggest and most bellwether state in the union has QUIT

a california all FIRED UP for politics just 100 days ago

now, only apathy, despair, surrender, resignation

you have to be politically as deaf as bigears not to HEAR that

bigears IS that tin eared

afterall, he's the guy pushing for the expansion of health care to 15 million illegals---in TIMES like THESE

he's the one trying to force HUGE tax hikes via his GLOBAL WARMING PROTECTION ACT in the midst of a DEPRESSION

postively UNAMERICAN!

SUICIDE politics

no one in THIS FORUM is that dumb

bigears still stands by his pledge to meet with the leaders of iran---LOLOLOL!

he's DUMBER than the stupidest junkie

no one around here defends IP, IDENTITY POLITICS

how come?

new jersey, friends, nov 3

KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL

in other words, GROW UP

LOLOL!

Blathering nonsense.

[The Professor]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latestpolls/latest_election_polls.html

this, from the guy who's dreaming about 2012

LOLOL!

november 3, baby!

3.5 months from TODAY

NEW JERSEY!

bye bye, corzine!

meet virginia!

bigears' entire agenda is ALREADY dead TODAY

after nov 3, he's gonna be official LAME DUCK

remember where you heard it first, kiddies

LOLOLOL!

[The_Limit]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latestpolls/latest_election_polls.html

this, from the guy who's dreaming about 2012

LOLOL!

november 3, baby!

3.5 months from TODAY

NEW JERSEY!

bye bye, corzine!

meet virginia!

bigears' entire agenda is ALREADY dead TODAY

after nov 3, he's gonna be official LAME DUCK

remember where you heard it first, kiddies

LOLOLOL!

I don't think you understand. My comments are not about your ideas per se.

It's about the writing. Your style is horrifying.

I can't make sense of it.

[doctordog]

I was raised during the Reagan administration you dumb bitch. And what in the hell is KosKooks? Must be a pretty intimidating something for you apparently.

Quite the Nazi you are Zeb. You probably talk to your mom that way too.

[bairdi]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latestpolls/latest_election_polls.html

this, from the guy who's dreaming about 2012

LOLOL!

november 3, baby!

3.5 months from TODAY

NEW JERSEY!

bye bye, corzine!

meet virginia!

bigears' entire agenda is ALREADY dead TODAY

after nov 3, he's gonna be official LAME DUCK

remember where you heard it first, kiddies

LOLOLOL!
State elections are very different animals than national elections. That's just basic politics 101. But if the thought of a N.J. repug governor gets you off then fine indulge in your fantasies. Wasn't Christie Todd Whitman a governor in N.J.?

[The Professor]

christie todd whitman?

LOLOLOL!

boy, you just cannot look FORWARD can you?

she's more ancient than w-stands-for-what's-his-name

as for state elections, you just wait and see the EFFECT a RED nj has on, oh, say, THE SENATE

LOLOLOL!

the house

LOLOL!

the MEDIA!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

the white house itself

politics is all about momentum

that's why he's hurrying so fast to win a few EMPTY parliamentary victories before AUGUST RECESS

(you REALLY need to get a tv, bairdi)

his HONEYMOON is OVER

and all he's got to show for it is---

the cars takeover---LOSER

the stimulus---LOSER

his budget with 12.65 of gdp colored RED---keynesian suicide

the bailouts, the bonuses, the bunglers and bums---LOSERS

and beyond all that, he has an empty plate---cap and trade, the public option, his entire foreign policy...

that's all he's got to show

and NOW he's gonna lose, are you listening, don't you get it?

NEW JERSEY!!!!!

LOLOLOL!

as EXCITED as The happy peppy Prof is pertaining to that prodigious capture

positively, the president is proportionally disappointed

new jersey and virginia are gonna have red governors in about 100 days

that's gonna SHIFT the entire political playing field in, well...

in the exact direction of RUSH LIMBAUGH and MS PALIN!!!

HORRORS!!!

TERRORS, OUTRAGE and ABOMINATIONS!

LOLOLOL!

sorry, bairdi

it's all a vicious circle

NJ's going RED cuz the large lobed is a LOSER

the extraordinarily eared is gonna LOSE cuz NJ's gone red

that's the way america works

it's all cuz bigears failed to separate himself a sliver from ms pelosi the palsied speakeress

san francisco EXTREMISM does not extrapolate well outside the castro

new jersey is spelled R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N

dig it

cliff

[bairdi]

christie todd whitman?

LOLOLOL!

boy, you just cannot look FORWARD can you?

she's more ancient than w-stands-for-what's-his-name

as for state elections, you just wait and see the EFFECT a RED nj has on, oh, say, THE SENATE

LOLOLOL!

the house

LOLOL!

the MEDIA!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

the white house itself

politics is all about momentum

that's why he's hurrying so fast to win a few EMPTY parliamentary victories before AUGUST RECESS

(you REALLY need to get a tv, bairdi)

his HONEYMOON is OVER

and all he's got to show for it is---

the cars takeover---LOSER

the stimulus---LOSER

his budget with 12.65 of gdp colored RED---keynesian suicide

the bailouts, the bonuses, the bunglers and bums---LOSERS

and beyond all that, he has an empty plate---cap and trade, the public option, his entire foreign policy...

that's all he's got to show

and NOW he's gonna lose, are you listening, don't you get it?

NEW JERSEY!!!!!

LOLOLOL!

as EXCITED as The happy peppy Prof is pertaining to that prodigious capture

positively, the president is proportionally disappointed

new jersey and virginia are gonna have red governors in about 100 days

that's gonna SHIFT the entire political playing field in, well...

in the exact direction of RUSH LIMBAUGH and MS PALIN!!!

HORRORS!!!

TERRORS, OUTRAGE and ABOMINATIONS!

LOLOLOL!

sorry, bairdi

it's all a vicious circle

NJ's going RED cuz the large lobed is a LOSER

the extraordinarily eared is gonna LOSE cuz NJ's gone red

that's the way america works

it's all cuz bigears failed to separate himself a sliver from ms pelosi the palsied speakeress

san francisco EXTREMISM does not extrapolate well outside the castro

new jersey is spelled R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N

dig it

cliff
I suggested you indulge, not hallucinate.

[Zebulon0351]

Quite the Nazi you are Zeb. You probably talk to your mom that way too.

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: You guys have gone from "terrorist lover" to "Nazi"
Keep it up wayner, you are quite entertaining.

[doctordog]

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: You guys have gone from "terrorist lover" to "Nazi"
Keep it up wayner, you are quite entertaining.

So are you, in a perverted way:lmao2:

[The Professor]

I suggested you indulge, not hallucinate.

non responsive

bigears' agenda is dead

it's cuz he's such a loser

YOU can't name a plank still in place

his own party is what stops him

he crashed historically fast

despite every possible advantage

and it's gonna cost his party new jersey

NEW JERSEY!!!

which is only one great big dark red (by 12 points!) northeastern (!!!) DOMINO

LOLOLOL!

[bairdi]

non responsive

bigears' agenda is dead

it's cuz he's such a loser

YOU can't name a plank still in place

his own party is what stops him

he crashed historically fast

despite every possible advantage

and it's gonna cost his party new jersey

NEW JERSEY!!!

which is only one great big dark red (by 12 points!) northeastern (!!!) DOMINO

LOLOLOL!
The Domino Theory. I think I heard that one once before in my lifetime.

[The Professor]

non responsive

jersey aint nam

it started with ny20, gillibrand's seat

she won it on nov 7 by 24 points

in the special election 2 months ago it was TIED

then CA, may 19

five props fell, each, two to one

and only 23% turned out

every poll has bigears way down (cuz his agenda is dead)

and now we're heading into jersey and virginia in about 100 days

that is, every empirical piece of the puzzle says exactly that which forces BAIRDI to dodge

your responsiveness is now 100% in your tacitness

ie, silence

bairdi cannot name one agenda item still alive to the ambitious bigears

so, what are you gonna bring up now, the panama canal?

LOLOLOL!

your "answers" to new jersey are absolutely absurd

just like your non responsiveness to his comprehensively DEAD agenda

losers---cap and trade, the public option, diplomacy with iran (LOLOL!), blaming bush, closing gitmo, investigating "torture," prosecuting cheney (that balloon stayed afloat one day, LOL!), the stimuli, the cars, the bailouts, the bonuses, the reachout to rogues and runts, ending rendition, ending detention, hiring lobbyists, putting legislation online, don't ask don't tell, public finance of campaigns, cutting the deficit in half in 4 years, reversing the patriot act, taxing benefits (the mccain plan), taxing those under 250, deficits at 12.65% of gdp...

what remains within the restricted reach of the Already Irrelevant?

putting medical records online?

LOLOLOLOLOL!

your turn...

but, first, let me guess...

the marshall plan

LOLOLOL!

[MintJulep]

You really are an ignorant bitch. Let's see what I can come up with about President John F. Kennedy a man who was president for about 1000 days compared to your messiah who had 8 years, and still did nothing:

1). Made an active effort to keep America out of Viet Nam.
2). Resolved the Cuban Missle Crisis
3). Received a Pulitzer prize.
4). Prevented war with the U.S.S.R.
5). Started the Peace Corps.
6). Passed a nuclear test ban treaty.
7). Set up programs of progressive aid to South America
8). Used the power of the presidency in civil rights against the Dixiecrats.
9). Got America into the space race.
10). Completed the transition from the post WW2 economy.
11). Began and supported the American trend toward technology.As I said, NOTHING. Reagan won the Cold War which the above half-assed crapola can't complete.







What did Reagan accomplish in 8 years except to line the pockets of big business?






^see above








In addition John Kennedy was important for his iconic reputation. His many inspiring speeches are often quoted. His youthful vigor and fashionable First Lady were hailed as American royalty; his time in office was termed "Camelot." His assassination has taken on a mythic quality, leading many to posit about possible conspiracies. The Kennedys were trash who came from dirty money from the get-go. The family is riddled with murderers, liars and philanderers, the entire LOT of them.

Again, President John F. Kennedy's moral leadership of Civil Rights was an important part of the movement's eventual success, and was his proudest accomplishment.He signed no legislation for the Civil Rights movement so if "lip service" is a accomplishment, he is very accomplished.

Otherwise, nothing plus nothing equals nothing. :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy: A Question of Character


August 1, 2005

by Timothy D. Naegele


With the passage of time, America’s greatest presidents prior to the 21st Century are apt to be viewed as Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan.


Gone from that list most certainly will be John F. Kennedy. Today, few young Americans even know who he was—or care about him—because less than a handful of his positive accomplishments had any lasting significance.

Reagan will be remembered, while Kennedy may be forgotten. This conclusion will surely offend those Kennedy disciples who are still pushing the myth of Camelot until its last gasp. Like William McKinley, the fact that an assassin cut short Kennedy’s life and presidency might be all that Americans recall about him 50 years from now.

It is striking how the death of Reagan last year made one realize how great he was, and how small and inconsequential Kennedy’s accomplishments were. Aside from some flowery words—mostly written for him by Theodore Sorenson —and what remains of the once-vibrant Peace Corps, Kennedy’s legacy is almost nonexistent today.

Reagan was lucky and blessed to have survived an assassin’s bullet only 69 days after he took office on January 20, 1981, and America and the free world are fortunate that he did.

More than 40 years after Kennedy’s death, the full extent of his life-long medical problems is still being withheld from the American people and conservative scholars; and it is doubtful whether he would have lived to accomplish anything approaching what Reagan achieved.

Kennedy launched this nation into Vietnam; and his secretary of defense, Robert McNamara, was the architect of that lost war and the enormous suffering that it produced. More than 50,000 brave Americans died, and it impaled this nation’s honor on the horns of a tragedy that still haunts policy makers and citizens alike.

Even before Vietnam, Kennedy was responsible for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, where Fidel Castro humiliated him completely. This led to more than 40 years of enslavement for the Cuban people. The Cuban Missile Crisis, or Kennedy’s confrontation with the Soviet Union, might have given rise to a nuclear winter.

Reagan is remembered for having brought down that “Evil Empire,” as well as the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain, and for freeing the people of Eastern Europe. Today, America’s friends in “New Europe” are its partners in NATO and its allies in the EU—as free men, woman and children who are no longer enslaved by communism.

Reagan’s marriage to Nancy was special and they were blessed with love. There was no hiding of mistresses by the Secret Service, which took place during Kennedy’s presidency. His reckless affairs with women were only outdone by his irresponsible and dangerous relationships with mobsters such as Chicago crime boss Sam Giancana.

Reagan was a doer who had style. Kennedy had style; however, the bloom has even gone off that rose. His serial womanizing, relations with Mafioso figures like Giancana—through their sexual liaisons with Judith Campbell Exner, who was used as their go-between—and other serious character flaws marred it.

Reagan was elected and reelected by landslides, while it is doubtful whether Kennedy would have become president in 1960 if the Mob had not helped him in Illinois and West Virginia—and Giancana claimed credit for that. Kennedy was the son of a bootlegger, and the apple does not fall far from the tree. The discrepancy between Camelot and the man himself has been laid bare; and there is a stark difference between the hype of Kennedy acolytes and the truth. Perhaps the debunking of his myth is similar to what happened to this country after Vietnam. Maybe Kennedy and America’s invincibility before that war both shared a similar fate, and this country’s naiveté somehow ended.

Kennedy was not someone to look up to, much less deify. Many of us came to that conclusion reluctantly, years ago, with a sense of sadness rather than anger. Like the potentate in Hans Christian Andersen’s fairy tale, “The Emperor's New Clothes,” the myth about Kennedy and his feet of clay have become clear for all to see with the passage of time.

In a recent Discovery Channel poll, Reagan was chosen as the “Greatest American,” edging Lincoln by a small margin. When he left office, Reagan had fulfilled his 1980 campaign pledge to restore "the great, confident roar of American progress and growth and optimism." Also, greatness is often achieved in times of war, and Kennedy never won the war with Cuba, much less the Vietnam War that he started, nor did he win the Cold War—which Reagan won, as he implemented the policy of "peace through strength."

Reagan will be remembered as one of America’s greatest presidents and a man of character. Kennedy was a tragic Shakespearean figure who may be forgotten and consigned to the dustheap of history. Perhaps this contrast between Reagan and Kennedy—this question of character that Thomas C. Reeves described in his terrific book about Kennedy—is what separates the men and underscores their differences, and ultimately will define their respective places in history.





http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/m-n/m-n-misc/naegele080105.htm

[Surfrider]

As I said, NOTHING. Reagan won the Cold War which the above half-assed crapola can't complete.

You know with all the money you Repubs have, you should spend some of it on a college history course.
You are not only in the Twilight Zone, you qualify for your own episode!

We had a cold war because neither the U.S.S.R. nor the United States wanted a hot one. We all knew we could blow each other to smitherines. The Russians have always been aggressive, testing us to see how far they can go before we react.

The Berlin wall went up overnight in 1961. Every president in both parties, and Leaders of Congress in both parties kept the pressure on the U.S.S.R. No one party or person did it. The irony is we won by accident the Russians went broke, and Communism collapsed.

Your messiah, President Ronald Reagan did nothing but continue an on-going program, and grab the glory.

http://www.russiankafe.com/images/somewhere.jpg

Now I am not going to waste any more time with you and these little seminars. You are not learning. You are not qualified to speak on politics.
You are going on ignore.

[Surfrider]

Only morons think Kennedy was even REMOTELY close to Reagan's legacy. Put simply, he didn't do shit.

You really are an ignorant bitch. Let's see what I can come up with about President John F. Kennedy, a man who was president for about 1000 days. Your messiah Ronald Reagan had 8 years, and still did nothing:


1). Made an active effort to keep America out of Viet Nam.
2). Resolved the Cuban Missle Crisis
3). Received a Pulitzer prize.
4). Prevented war with the U.S.S.R.
5). Started the Peace Corps.
6). Passed a nuclear test ban treaty.
7). Set up programs of progressive aid to South America
8). Used the power of the presidency in civil rights against the Dixiecrats.
9). Got America into the space race.
10). Completed the transition from the post WW2 economy.
11). Began and supported the American trend toward technology.

Again, all of this and more in less than 1000 days.
What did Reagan accomplish in 8 years except to line the pockets of big business?

In addition John Kennedy was important for his iconic reputation. His many inspiring speeches are often quoted. His youthful vigor and fashionable First Lady were hailed as American royalty; his time in office was termed "Camelot." His assassination has taken on a mythic quality, leading many to posit about possible conspiracies. Again, President John F. Kennedy's moral leadership of Civil Rights was an important part of the movement's eventual success, and was his proudest accomplishment.

http://www.politician-pictures.com/john-f-kennedy.jpg

[MintJulep]

You know with all the money you Repubs have, you should spend some of it on a college history course.



You are not only in the Twilight Zone, you qualify for your own episode!


We had a cold war because neither the U.S.S.R. nor the United States wanted a hot one. We all knew we could blow each other to smitherines. The Russians have always been aggressive, testing us to see how far they can go before we react.

The Berlin wall went up overnight in 1961. Every president in both parties, and Leaders of Congress in both parties kept the pressure on the U.S.S.R. No one party or person did it. The irony is we won by accident the Russians went broke, and Communism collapsed.


http://www.russiankafe.com/images/somewhere.jpg




Now I am not going to waste any more time with you and these little seminars. You are not learning. You are not qualified to speak on politics.



You are going on ignore.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lWET_BXRU9c/RiBW_20OzYI/AAAAAAAAAYU/wwOcSKJ3CMo/s400/flo+mc-owned.jpg

See ya, wouldn't wanna BE YA! :lmao2:

[The Professor]

surfrider has surpassed our affable and cartoony friend as the single most uneducated junkie

john kennedy STARTED american involvement in vietnam, he sent the first 16000 troops

he initiated free fire zones, defoliants, napalm, bombing of the north

read The Best and The Brightest by Halberstam, it's a classic

kennedy was also a massive supply-sider/tax-cutter

biggest tax DECREASE in history

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=26

dropped marginal rates from 90% to 70% for top earners, from 20 to 14 for those in the lowest bracket

corporate rates lowered substantially as well

jfk's supply side policies instigated the economic boom that was the 60's

the entire kennedy clan had extremely close ties with tailgunner joe---MCCARTHY---robert personally volunteered on the tailgunner's staff

father joseph was an open proponent of reaching out in friendship to hitler, almost a member of Der Bund, from his position at the court of st james, us ambassador to england

jfk was a massive drug addict, hooked on pain pills (like michael jackson) cuzza his back injury

he also suffered from addison's disease, the poor guy

he was a filthy, disgusting womanizer, a pervert, just like his dad, pointedly, emotionally abusive thereby towards his wife and kids

bay of pigs was a fiasco, he withheld air support, he probably should never have sent that ragged army in the first place

but if you're gonna send em, you need have the guts to support em, especially if that's what you PROMISED

his election with nixon was the closest just about in american history

and even the kennedy's concede massive voter fraud in lbj's texas and in cook county (chicago), illinois

certainly enough to swing that election, a virtual tie, as close as gore2000

sam giancana the mobster gave him chicago, the kennedy's had to kiss the mafioso's ring to win the white house

the missile crisis came only after kruschev met kennedy in vienna and took his measure, found him wanting

kennedy came off as such a kid he ENCOURAGED the russkies to get aggressive

kennedy won the stare down in the atlantic, tho, to be fair

jfk ok'd the assassination of ngo dien diem, south vietnam's president, who really was a bad guy

but political chaos prevailed at the top ever after and it made lbj's job in nam impossible

to me, the best thing kennedy ever did was launch the MOON effort

the point---jfk is much ado about almost nothing, he was assassinated young and good looking which made his legacy forever great (which it should be)

he was a tax CUTTER

he ESCALATED nam

the missile crisis was his correction for his earlier error

his party stole his election in the first place

his dad was a disgusting pig, and he's the man who made john president

the pulitzer was GHOST WRITTEN by ted sorensen who admitted as much in his memoirs

and PROFILES is a really DUMB read, by the way

all the above points are substantiated in the following link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy

surfrider talks about FRENCH FOUNDING DOCUMENTS

the french were "founded," if by anyone, by charlemagne, crowned holy roman emperor in rome by leo 3 on christmas day, dec 25, 800 AD, summoned south to bail out the church vs the dangeroulsy encroaching lombards

surfrider talks to some "constitutional lawyer" on the phone who either told surfrider all america needs to "get socialism" is "presidential approval" or surfrider misunderstood what his friend was trying to tell him

in every post of surfrider's that includes more than the pasting of a picture (LOLOL!) i find massive errors in scholarship like all of the above

sorry

[Bill Cosby]

No cliffy......... Truman started it. Kennedy just added to it...

I agree w/ lots of the rest also but certainly not all........

I find their debate ironic in that Regan liked JFK & in a sense looked up to/admired Kennedy & some of his policies including that supply side/tax cutting..

[The Professor]

No cliffy......... Truman started it. Kennedy just added to it...

I agree w/ lots of the rest also but certainly not all........

I find their debate ironic in that Regan liked JFK & in a sense looked up to/admired Kennedy & some of his policies including that supply side/tax cutting..

you mean eisenhower

ike sent advisers

kennedy sent troops

truman sent nothing

the french were there until dien bien phu, 1954

look these things up, please, before spouting

you sound like him

LOLOL!

[psikeyhackr]

surfrider has surpassed our affable and cartoony friend as the single most uneducated junkie

john kennedy STARTED american involvement in vietnam, he sent the first 16000 troops

he initiated free fire zones, defoliants, napalm, bombing of the north

read The Best and The Brightest by Halberstam, it's a classic

kennedy was also a massive supply-sider/tax-cutter

So why is McNamara saying that Kennedy was making arrangements to get out of Vietnam in his documentary The Fog of War?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

psik

[Surfrider]

Originally Posted by The Professor
surfrider has surpassed our affable and cartoony friend as the single most uneducated junkie

john kennedy STARTED american involvement in vietnam, he sent the first 16000 troops

he initiated free fire zones, defoliants, napalm, bombing of the north

read The Best and The Brightest by Halberstam, it's a classic

kennedy was also a massive supply-sider/tax-cutter

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______

"The Professor" should check Wikipedia. The war in Viet Nam started in 1959, and as memory serves me there was a REPUBLICAN in the White House then.

[Bill Cosby]

you mean eisenhower

ike sent advisers

kennedy sent troops

truman sent nothing

the french were there until dien bien phu, 1954

look these things up, please, before spouting

you sound like him

LOLOL!

Truman started w/ 500 "advisers". Ike had about the same. Kennedy also called them "advisers"......... They were in fact being shot & killed as they were w/ the South Viet Nam forces...

I agree, as IMO calling them "advisers" was a term of convenience, not fact..

While we are on the topic & just as a side note between us, as I don't wanna side track the thread..........

What is your take on what JFK would have done had his term continued & perhaps carried into a second term....???

[The Professor]

So why is McNamara saying that Kennedy was making arrangements to get out of Vietnam in his documentary The Fog of War?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

psik

that's a good question and an old argument

some make that claim and have for decades, and it may even be somewhat true

halberstam sure doesn't go there

but either way, it didn't happen

you can try to divine the adulterer's mind

but on the ground there were 16000 us soldiers

the president is responsible for reality

not divined intentions

as you know

[The Professor]

Truman started w/ 500 "advisers". Ike had about the same. Kennedy also called them "advisers"......... They were in fact being shot & killed as they were w/ the South Viet Nam forces...

I agree, as IMO calling them "advisers" was a term of convenience, not fact..

While we are on the topic & just as a side note between us, as I don't wanna side track the thread..........

What is your take on what JFK would have done had his term continued & perhaps carried into a second term....???

truman sent 35 advisers, i stand corrected

ike sent 900

jfk 16000

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001292.html

kennedy would have escalated exactly like lbj did

and for the exact same reasons

lbj hated that war, as you know

it also killed him

the party was different back then

it understood duty and responsibility

jfk and lbj were the type of men who could not live with the loss of southeast asia on their heads

it was before the summer of 68

chicago, 1968

the dem convention

the riots in the streets, grant park, the panthers, the chicago 7

mayor daley's cops cracking heads

i know you are aware

everything changed in the summer of 68

the far left captured the party

by 72, you had mcgovern

before 68, the dems were a party of grownups, men

after, just a bunch of hippies

blame america firsters

political losers, in addition

it took watergate to get that generation a presidency

and they squandered it (just like this one) in months

indeed, to win back the white house clinton had to "reinvent" his party

"the new democrats," he called em

centrists, dlc'ers, democratic leadership council

triangulation

clinton was a very astute politician

a coward and weakling, but not dumb

this guy in the white house today is an idiot

sorry

he's moved the party LEFT of pelosi (i know, bill cosby is the guy who says NANCY PELOSI IS NOT A LIBERAL---LOLOLOL!)

san francisco is centrist, says cosby

so why am i even talking to you?

that is NOT a serious position

it might be personal for YOU, that i can understand

but no one cares about you and me

america cares about america

and to america, ms pelosi is the personification of liberal extremism

thanks for asking, tho, bill

in my opinion, you are not very serious, but you sure are one helluva sweet guy, i really like you personally

you do not FAKE your kindness and humanity, you're way too good at it for it to be anything but real

people could learn TONS from your kindness (probably incorporating The pompous Prof)

cliff

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by The Professor
surfrider has surpassed our affable and cartoony friend as the single most uneducated junkie

john kennedy STARTED american involvement in vietnam, he sent the first 16000 troops

he initiated free fire zones, defoliants, napalm, bombing of the north

read The Best and The Brightest by Halberstam, it's a classic

kennedy was also a massive supply-sider/tax-cutter

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______

"The Professor" should check Wikipedia. The war in Viet Nam started in 1959, and as memory serves me there was a REPUBLICAN in the White House then.

i thought i was on IGNORE

LOLOL!

make up your mind, don't be such a girl

the war started before the japanese were defeated

it was conducted by the french (of FOUNDING DOCUMENTS fame---LOLOLOL!)

google dien bien phu, 1954

it was an airport

jfk sent 16000, he called em advisers

ike did have a very small presence

ike's guys really were advisers/trainers

i really don't think there were enough americans there to make much difference IN THE FIGHT

jfk's were SOLDIERS

the war was ESCALATED by jfk

that's HISTORY

not the "active effort" to keep us out, as you so cavalierly claimed

what's your constitutional lawyer friend say this week?

are we gonna get that PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL for SOCIALISM any time soon?

LOLOL!

[Bill Cosby]

truman sent 35 advisers, i stand corrected

ike sent 900

jfk 16000

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001292.html

kennedy would have escalated exactly like lbj did

and for the exact same reasons

lbj hated that war, as you know

it also killed him

the party was different back then

it understood duty and responsibility

jfk and lbj were the type of men who could not live with the loss of southeast asia on their heads

it was before the summer of 68

chicago, 1968

the dem convention

the riots in the streets, grant park, the panthers, the chicago 7

mayor daley's cops cracking heads

i know you are aware

everything changed in the summer of 68

the far left captured the party

by 72, you had mcgovern

before 68, the dems were a party of grownups, men

after, just a bunch of hippies

blame america firsters

political losers, in addition

it took watergate to get that generation a presidency

and they squandered it (just like this one) in months

indeed, to win back the white house clinton had to "reinvent" his party

"the new democrats," he called em

centrists, dlc'ers, democratic leadership council

triangulation

clinton was a very astute politician

a coward and weakling, but not dumb

this guy in the white house today is an idiot

sorry

he's moved the party LEFT of pelosi (i know, bill cosby is the guy who says NANCY PELOSI IS NOT A LIBERAL---LOLOLOL!)

san francisco is centrist, says cosby

so why am i even talking to you?

that is NOT a serious position

it might be personal for YOU, that i can understand

but no one cares about you and me

america cares about america

and to america, ms pelosi is the personification of liberal extremism

thanks for asking, tho, bill

in my opinion, you are not very serious, but you sure are one helluva sweet guy, i really like you personally

you do not FAKE your kindness and humanity, you're way too good at it for it to be anything but real

people could learn TONS from your kindness (probably incorporating The pompous Prof)

cliff

ThnX.. :thumbsup:

I would concur.... I believe he was from that old school & losing south east asia (domino theory) was not really an option... There were the secret memos & all that but none seemed predicated on allowing the south to fall......

Most Americans are quite shocked, if not appalled when they learn that JFk bombed, napalmed, agent orange the south....

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~heraldry/icons/rose_colored_glasses.jpg

[Surfrider]

"I can assure you, the information you have about President John F. Kennedy is incorrect. Read further."

~Richard M. Daley, Mayor

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2006/07/richard_m_daley.jpg

[The Professor]

I can assure you

LOLOLOL!!!

[The Professor]

~Richard M. Daley, Mayor

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2006/07/richard_m_daley.jpg[/CENTER]

that's his son, dummy

you really can't help it, can you?

LOLOL!

you're probably gonna have to put me back on IGNORE

the mayor we're discussing in this thread is richard joseph, the father, the boss

ie, 1968

LOLOL!

why, look at your own photo, that's not black and white

you can't even paste correctly anymore

LOLOLOL!

richard m is comparitively a nobody

surfrider, hands down---most poorly educated poster on dcj

congrats!

LOLOLOL!

[The Professor]

richard m

richard j

age 18

they met

ignore

pops open

tell me, professor...

dang, honey---MAKE UP YOUR MIND

LOLOLOL!

[MintJulep]

:lmao2: :lmao2: I saw it.....and then, poof!

[Surfrider]

that's his son, dummy

you really can't help it, can you?

LOLOL!


Hmm....my ignore file pops open "accidentally,"
and whose post happens to be slamming me with inaccurate information as usual?

ILLINOIS GOVERNMENT 101, Richard M. Daley is the current Mayor of Chicago and was born in 1942. His father Richard J. Daley was Mayor of Chicago at the time John F. Kennedy was elected President. Illinois was critical in the 1960 election. So, Dick Daley knew President Kennedy at least by age 18, and probably much earlier BECAUSE:

HERE IS THE BONUS ANSWER: The Daley family lived in Bridgeport, IL and as Roman Catholics worshiped at St. Anthonys. When the Kennedys were in town they also worshiped at St. Anthonys. Why do you think the Kennedys might have picked St. Anthonys out of all the Catholic churches in Chicago? Da ya think JFK and Dick Daley might have met? Ever hear of a device called Google, try it before you write. That's how I found out. Da ya think just maybe Dick Daley knows enough about JFK to write a book? "Professor" do you know enough about JFK to write a book? Did you ever even meet JFK?

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/06/PH2008010602270.jpg
Richard M. Daley, current Mayor of Chicago, Illinois

Fortunately, my ignore button is working again. Professor, you have still never told me what you are a professor of. Is it sanitation? You do generate a lot sewage. "The "professor" is something you made up for the Internet to hide that you are a idiot isn't it?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/482160447_cbdf08154e.jpg

[MintJulep]

The Kennedys are nothing but trailer trash with money and I'm not afraid to say it.

Old man Kennedy ran opium, booze and sold weapons to the Nazis before WWII. Ted Kennedy let Mary Jo drown in his car in Chappaquidick in 1969. William Skakel got off killing that girl with a golf club, Wm Kennedy Smith raped a girl and got off and the list goes on and on...........

JFK was way overrated. So was was Bobby. Too bad they didn't pick Ted off. Mary Jo might still be alive today. Coincidentally, today is the date of her death.

Drunks, liars, murderers and philanderers, the whole lot of them.

[The Professor]

Hmm....my ignore file pops open "accidentally,"
and whose post happens to be slamming me with inaccurate information as usual?

ILLINOIS GOVERNMENT 101, Richard M. Daley is the current Mayor of Chicago and was born in 1942. His father Richard J. Daley was Mayor of Chicago at the time John F. Kennedy was elected President. Illinois was critical in the 1960 election. So, Dick Daley knew President Kennedy at least by age 18, and probably much earlier BECAUSE:

HERE IS THE BONUS ANSWER: The Daley family lived in Bridgeport, IL and as Roman Catholics worshiped at St. Anthonys. When the Kennedys were in town they also worshiped at St. Anthonys. Why do you think the Kennedys might have picked St. Anthonys out of all the Catholic churches in Chicago? Da ya think JFK and Dick Daley might have met? Ever hear of a device called Google, try it before you write. That's how I found out. Da ya think just maybe Dick Daley knows enough about JFK to write a book? "Professor" do you know enough about JFK to write a book? Did you ever even meet JFK?

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/06/PH2008010602270.jpg
Richard M. Daley, current Mayor of Chicago, Illinois

Fortunately, my ignore button is working again. Professor, you have still never told me what you are a professor of. Is it sanitation? You do generate a lot sewage. "The "professor" is something you made up for the Internet to hide that you are a idiot isn't it?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/482160447_cbdf08154e.jpg

you're really weird, dude

LOLOLOL!!!

[The Professor]

The Kennedys are nothing but trailer trash with money and I'm not afraid to say it.

Old man Kennedy ran opium, booze and sold weapons to the Nazis before WWII. Ted Kennedy let Mary Jo drown in his car in Chappaquidick in 1969. William Skakel got off killing that girl with a golf club, Wm Kennedy Smith raped a girl and got off and the list goes on and on...........

JFK was way overrated. So was was Bobby. Too bad they didn't pick Ted off. Mary Jo might still be alive today. Coincidentally, today is the date of her death.

Drunks, liars, murderers and philanderers, the whole lot of them.

don't forget ms, umm, what's her name, uhh, y'know, ms, umm, she was gonna be like ambassador to that, uhh, that dude in the robes, umm, y'know, in rome, what's he called, oh yeah, THE POPE, umm, ms, oh, dang---CAROLINE!!!

that's her name, ms CAROLINE!

LOLOLOL!

[Surfrider]

you're really weird, dude

LOLOLOL!!!

I am weird, dude, but at least I am not stupid. Remember Google first, then write! You are back on ignore.

LOLOLOL!!!

http://www.nndb.com/people/493/000055328/daley-port.jpg
Richard J. Daley, Mayor and father of Richard M. Daley

[The Professor]

I am weird, dude

LOLOL!

oh, no, dude, you're the stupidest poster in the forum

also

FRENCH FOUNDING DOCUMENTS, source of john locke

LOLOLOL!

ALL WE NEED TO GET SOCIALISM IS PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL

LOLOLOL!

JFK MADE AN ACTIVE EFFORT TO KEEP US OUT OF NAM

LOLOLOL!

A PRETTY GLOSSY (LOLOLOL!) OF THE CURRENT MAYOR OF CHITOWN IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CONVENTION OF 68

JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME

DALEY!

RICHARD M DALEY!

A NOBODY!!!

LOLOLOL!

IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT KENNEDY!

LOLOLOL!

that's pretty STUPID

he ignores me
he ignores me not
he ignores me...

LOLOLOL!

not a lotta PRIDE either

talk ABOUT you soon, surfrider

you'll find it IRRESISTABLE

LOLOLOL!!!

[Surfrider]

LOLOL!

oh, no, dude, you're the stupidest poster in the forum

also...

LOLOLOL!...


JFK MADE AN ACTIVE EFFORT TO KEEP US OUT OF NAM

LOLOLOL!...


JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME...

DALEY!

RICHARD M DALEY!

A NOBODY!!!

LOLOLOL!

IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT KENNEDY!

LOLOLOL!

that's pretty STUPID...

LOLOLOL!

not a lotta PRIDE either

talk ABOUT you soon, surfrider

you'll find it IRRESISTABLE

LOLOLOL!!!

http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/jfk03clr.JPG

[The Professor]

he ignores me
he ignores me not...

dang, dude, act like a MALE!

pretend!

LOLOLOL!

i'm sorry about jfk, but i didn't do it

i think it had something to do with THE EDICT OF NANTES

either that or he lacked PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL

LOLOLOL!

that's a really gross picture, by the way

your weirdness is showing again

LOLOLOL!

[MintJulep]

don't forget ms, umm, what's her name, uhh, y'know, ms, umm, she was gonna be like ambassador to that, uhh, that dude in the robes, umm, y'know, in rome, what's he called, oh yeah, THE POPE, umm, ms, oh, dang---CAROLINE!!!

that's her name, ms CAROLINE!

LOLOLOL!Uh umm uh like, you know, umm uh um, like well, um, she um, you know, like didn't get the, um like, the looks or the brains, um uh in the family! :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

i'm sorry about jfk, but i didn't do it

i think it had something to do with THE EDICT OF NANTES

either that or he lacked PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL

LOLOLOL!

that's a really gross picture, by the way

your weirdness is showing again

LOLOLOL!Today is the anniversary of her death.


http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbusters/static/2009/07/Kopechne.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

[Surfrider]

Mr. Keith Prewitt
Deputy Director
U S Secret Service
245 Murray Drive, Building 410
Washington, D. C. 20223

Dear Mr. Prewitt,

As a long standing member of the DNC, (#733002807546), I feel it my duty to inform you of some activity.

There is a web site known as DCJunkies, http://www.dcjunkies.com/index.php where some members openly discuss matters that you as Deputy Director might want to be aware of. It is not my intention to make an accusation, nor do I have any evidence other than what appears in the web site.

In fact I personally do not like these individuals, I find these three offensive and UnAmerican, but that is only my opinion. It is not evidence. The facts are in DCJunkies. The possibly unstable members are user names, "____________," "________", and "_____________." Someone official should look in this web site.

I have never written a letter like this before. It is my hope that I am in error about this situation. However, you are the professional, and better experienced to make any decisions. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


_________________________
AKA: User Name Surfrider
505-265-____




In the letter version sent to Washington the blanks have been replaced with the appropriate names.

[doctordog]

Mr. Keith Prewitt
Deputy Director
U S Secret Service
245 Murray Drive, Building 410
Washington, D. C. 20223

Dear Mr. Prewitt,

As a long standing member of the DNC, (#733002807546), I feel it my duty to inform you of some activity.

There is a web site known as DCJunkies, http://www.dcjunkies.com/index.php where some members openly discuss matters that you as Deputy Director might want to be aware of. It is not my intention to make an accusation, nor do I have any evidence other than what appears in the web site.

In fact I personally do not like these individuals, I find these three offensive and UnAmerican, but that is only my opinion. It is not evidence. The facts are in DCJunkies. The possibly unstable members are user names, "____________," "________", and "_____________." Someone official should look in this web site.

I have never written a letter like this before. It is my hope that I am in error about this situation. However, you are the professional, and better experienced to make any decisions. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


_________________________
AKA: User Name Surfrider
505-265-____




In the letter version sent to Washington the blanks have been replaced with the appropriate names.

what a fucking loon:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Hog Trash]

what a fucking loon:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:Beats all I ever saw...Now you know why I put this idiot on ignore his first week on DCJ?

Cosby has joined him...He lasted a while only because I thought there might be hope for the boy.

I've never ignored anyone since I've been here and now there's two of them...Maybe they're coneheads?

Where are these morons coming from?...Anybody know?...Are they even from this planet?

[doctordog]

Beats all I ever saw...Now you know why I put this idiot on ignore his first week on DCJ?

Cosby has joined him...He lasted a while only because I thought there might be hope for the boy.

I've never ignored anyone since I've been here and now there's two of them...Maybe they're coneheads?

Where are these morons coming from?...Anybody know?...Are they even from this planet?

Politicalgroove.com

You should see their leader, craziest motherfucker on earth.

[Hog Trash]

Politicalgroove.com

You should see their leader, craziest motherfucker on earth.Are they all as stupid as surf and cos?...If so, PG must be one big cluster-fuck.

Is that the site where the liberals take turns suckin Obama's willy-wacker?

[Hog Trash]

Originally Posted by Surfrider
Mr. Keith Prewitt
Deputy Director
U S Secret Service
245 Murray Drive, Building 410
Washington, D. C. 20223

Dear Mr. Prewitt,

As a long standing member of the DNC, (#733002807546), I feel it my duty to inform you of some activity.

There is a web site known as DCJunkies, http://www.dcjunkies.com/index.php where some members openly discuss matters that you as Deputy Director might want to be aware of. It is not my intention to make an accusation, nor do I have any evidence other than what appears in the web site.

In fact I personally do not like these individuals, I find these three offensive and UnAmerican, but that is only my opinion. It is not evidence. The facts are in DCJunkies. The possibly unstable members are user names, "____________," "________", and "_____________." Someone official should look in this web site.

I have never written a letter like this before. It is my hope that I am in error about this situation. However, you are the professional, and better experienced to make any decisions. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


_________________________
AKA: User Name Surfrider
505-265-____




In the letter version sent to Washington the blanks have been replaced with the appropriate names.I suppose we have all heard of politicalgrove and the severe restrictions regarding anti Obama posting.

The liberals coming here find it repulsive that conservatives insult their messiah openly, freely and unchecked.

Surfboy's "letter" post is an attempt to scare people from excersizing free speech regarding the man he worships.

How sad it is that these liberals coming here from politicalgrove have become so accustomed to speech restrictions that they have become dependent on it.

I hate to be the one to tell him that the Obama he worships is a marxist, America hating, corrupt politician and a low-life racist cockroach.

Sorry liberals but all that stuff is still legal in America....At least for now anyway. :thumbsup:

[Bill Cosby]

Are they all as stupid as surf and cos?...If so, PG must be one big cluster-fuck.

Is that the site where the liberals take turns suckin Obama's willy-wacker?

Wow.......... quite to conversation we have here.......

Don't tell no body but between us I don't think surf is posting there.....

Funny how that place is so bad & yet some ppl constantly struggle to get back there.....

If ppl struggling to come to this country from all over is an indication of how great we are what does that tell yea about that place.....:lmao2: :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

Funny how that place is so bad & yet some ppl constantly struggle to get back there.....

If ppl struggling to come to this country from all over is an indication of how great we are what does that tell yea about that place..... I don't know who would struggle to go back there but it sho ain't me. I wouldn't go back for money. Besides, it's dead and no action. The name should be changed to politicalgraveyard.com.

[Bill Cosby]

I don't know who would struggle to go back there but it sho ain't me. I wouldn't go back for money. Besides, it's dead and no action. The name should be changed to politicalgraveyard.com.

Thats cold Minty.......... LOL

Yea I know you havn't but others have....

& I have been hearing ppl call it that...... I guess just a part of the big war...

I think it is getting pretty slow. EMan was back for a day or so of attention so I said hi.........

I told him Minty sends her love to......... :D I hope that was ok. I think back a couple months ago you asked me to tell him but he never got back till a few days ago.......

You remember Pieter???

I posted a few times over there but it is pretty slow......

[doctordog]

Wow.......... quite to conversation we have here.......

Don't tell no body but between us I don't think surf is posting there.....

Funny how that place is so bad & yet some ppl constantly struggle to get back there.....

If ppl struggling to come to this country from all over is an indication of how great we are what does that tell yea about that place.....:lmao2: :lmao2:

Look at the posting there of a poster who's handle starts with "P" and he has a tiger for an avatar. Some the subjects are identical to ones here.

[Bill Cosby]

??? Who is that???

[doctordog]

??? Who is that???

Pentiger, I found him over there while looking at some of the post. His subjects and pictures are identical to the ones posted here.

[Smurf-Herder]

Mr. Keith Prewitt
Deputy Director
U S Secret Service
245 Murray Drive, Building 410
Washington, D. C. 20223

Dear Mr. Prewitt,

As a long standing member of the DNC, (#733002807546), I feel it my duty to inform you of some activity.

There is a web site known as DCJunkies, http://www.dcjunkies.com/index.php where some members openly discuss matters that you as Deputy Director might want to be aware of. It is not my intention to make an accusation, nor do I have any evidence other than what appears in the web site.

In fact I personally do not like these individuals, I find these three offensive and UnAmerican, but that is only my opinion. It is not evidence. The facts are in DCJunkies. The possibly unstable members are user names, "____________," "________", and "_____________." Someone official should look in this web site.

I have never written a letter like this before. It is my hope that I am in error about this situation. However, you are the professional, and better experienced to make any decisions. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


_________________________
AKA: User Name Surfrider
505-265-____




In the letter version sent to Washington the blanks have been replaced with the appropriate names.

So, is this the reason SirMoby wants stricter rules?

Because you want to bring Big Brother down on us?

Thank you, very much.

[Bill Cosby]

??? What are the stricter rules he is proposing now???

[Smurf-Herder]

??? What are the stricter rules he is proposing now???

Check out the top sticky thread. Some are very vague and open to interpretation. Most are just the old rules repeated.

He banned Frank for accusing Ted Kennedy of killing the girl that drowned in his 1969 car accident.

Kennedy went home (possibly drunk) and didn't notify the police until they found the car with the dead girl in it the next day. Rumors were that she may have been pregnant with his baby.

[doctordog]

Check out the top sticky thread. Some are very vague and open to interpretation. Most are just the old rules repeated.

He banned Frank for accusing Ted Kennedy of killing the girl that drowned in his 1969 car accident.

Kennedy went home (possibly drunk) and didn't notify the police until they found the car with the dead girl in it the next day. Rumors were that she may have been pregnant with his baby.

Damn, we better keep quiet about OJ then!:lmao2:

I would think we could ban everyone on the left for the accusations toward Bush.

[Smurf-Herder]

Damn, we better keep quiet about OJ then!:lmao2:

I would think we could ban everyone on the left for the accusations toward Bush.

That's part of my point - it can go both ways. And there are no limits on what is an accusation and who could be covered and how.

Theoretically, it could limit anything we'd have to say about anyone; because it wasn't proven in a "US" court of law.

And practically, if we were to play "better safe than sorry", we'd be walking on egg shells not to say the wrong thing in every post.

[doctordog]

That's part of my point - it can go both ways. And there are no limits on what is an accusation and who could be covered and how.

Theoretically, it could limit anything we'd have to say about anyone; because it wasn't proven in a "US" court of law.

And practically, if we were to play "better safe than sorry", we'd be walking on egg shells not to say the wrong thing in every post.

Well, you can write this down, I will not walk on egg shells for worry of being banned by a over sensitive admin. I have been banned from a board like that and it wasn't a big deal.

If I go to hell when I die I hope I smell the aroma of barbecued Ted Kennedy, OJ Simpson, and others that thought they were above the law.:thumbsup:

[MintJulep]

That's part of my point - it can go both ways. And there are no limits on what is an accusation and who could be covered and how.

Theoretically, it could limit anything we'd have to say about anyone; because it wasn't proven in a "US" court of law.

And practically, if we were to play "better safe than sorry", we'd be walking on egg shells not to say the wrong thing in every post.Not to mention, isn't everyone entitled to an opinion? The Kennedys are trailer-trash with money. My opinion and I'm sticking with it. :)

[MintJulep]

Well, you can write this down, I will not walk on egg shells for worry of being banned by a over sensitive admin. I have been banned from a board like that and it wasn't a big deal.I second that motion! Although I'm sure Moby is nothing remotely close to the dog-beating, control freak who hosts a political graveyard. :D

[doctordog]

I second that motion! Although I'm sure Moby is nothing remotely close to the dog-beating, control freak who hosts a political graveyard. :D

Is that the site where the admin talks about jizzing in his pants?:lmao2:

[Smurf-Herder]

Mr. Keith Prewitt
Deputy Director
U S Secret Service
245 Murray Drive, Building 410
Washington, D. C. 20223

Dear Mr. Prewitt,

As a long standing member of the DNC, (#733002807546), I feel it my duty to inform you of some activity.

There is a web site known as DCJunkies, http://www.dcjunkies.com/index.php where some members openly discuss matters that you as Deputy Director might want to be aware of. It is not my intention to make an accusation, nor do I have any evidence other than what appears in the web site.

In fact I personally do not like these individuals, I find these three offensive and UnAmerican, but that is only my opinion. It is not evidence. The facts are in DCJunkies. The possibly unstable members are user names, "____________," "________", and "_____________." Someone official should look in this web site.

I have never written a letter like this before. It is my hope that I am in error about this situation. However, you are the professional, and better experienced to make any decisions. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,


_________________________
AKA: User Name Surfrider
505-265-____




In the letter version sent to Washington the blanks have been replaced with the appropriate names.


So, I guess now we must consider you an informant for Big Brother; and in that respect a potential threat to the board and everyone on it.

I'll always have this in my head when I see you; knowing how in one fell swoop you made it to the top of the shit list. :thumbsup:

[doctordog]

So, I guess now we must consider you an informant for Big Brother; and in that respect a potential threat to the board and everyone on it.

I'll always have this in my head when I see you; knowing how in one fell swoop you made it to the top of the shit list. :thumbsup:

He is far worse than anyone that has been banned so far.

[Hog Trash]

So, I guess now we must consider you an informant for Big Brother; and in that respect a potential threat to the board and everyone on it.

I'll always have this in my head when I see you; knowing how in one fell swoop you made it to the top of the shit list. :thumbsup:Give him the permanent boot....He's a total idiot Smurf....Have you read any of his posts?

[doctordog]

Give him the permanent boot....He's a total idiot Smurf....Have you read any of his posts?

He has written a full paragraph with all his post, he is a picture paster.

[Hog Trash]

Check out the top sticky thread. Some are very vague and open to interpretation. Most are just the old rules repeated.

He banned Frank for accusing Ted Kennedy of killing the girl that drowned in his 1969 car accident.

Kennedy went home (possibly drunk) and didn't notify the police until they found the car with the dead girl in it the next day. Rumors were that she may have been pregnant with his baby.Moby banned Frank for saying what everybody in the civilized world knows for a fact happened???

I can't believe this shit....Ted Kennedy is as guilty as OJ Simpson....It's no big secret.

Somebody needs to tell Moby to remove his head from his nasty ass.

[Smurf-Herder]

Moby banned Frank for saying what everybody in the civilized world knows for a fact happened???

I can't believe this shit....Ted Kennedy is as guilty as OJ Simpson....It's no big secret.

Somebody needs to tell Moby to remove his head from his nasty ass.

So you can get banned now for calling OJ a murderer, according to SM. I originally only included members in that and not public figures. Because we could just about ban anyone here for accusations against public figures.