NASCAR & the confederate falg

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

NASCAR promotes itself as great advertisers. Obviously their cars do a great job of that. Well, look at the "Cingular" car. The hood of the car has the Cingular insignia on it in such a way that clearly intends for it to look like the confederate flag. Remember, NASCAR was born in the south & the majority of its races are there.

[Mr. Blue]

You're talking about the Cingular logo that's been used for awhile now...even before they sponsored a car in NASCAR?

[Linkster]

I have to laugh at this one - although having been to a Nascar race, you will see many conf flags flying from personal RVs etc, the logo you're talking about was always that pattern - and as Blue points out was in use way before they became a Nascar sponsor in that exact configuration.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

You're talking about the Cingular logo that's been used for awhile now...even before they sponsored a car in NASCAR?
When the isignia is spread across the entire hood it looks much differently than it otherwise would & this is the intended effect. It looks like the " General Lee'" from the Dukes of Hazard tv show.

[stefan segal]

I believe the confederate battle flag should be allowed to fly or be symbolized anywhere someone wants to display it.

I am net southern, nor do I share their views about slavery...mostly because freeing the slaves didn't evaporate five billion 1860 dollars from my economy...I do believe in States' rights as the only means to keep the DC government honest...we have lost too much power to DC from the states, and should cut the federal allowance down by 90%, keeping their own taxes in the State and govern directly from a local tax base their local laws.

I'm well aware of the great number of problems this would cause, but I believe it is worth it for what we, as "the" people would gain.

If those crazy texans want to go kick some peasant ass, Mass. and Delaware wouldn't be buying them their ticket and packing their lunch.

I can't stand that I am responsible for every utterance from that asshole's mouth as he interacts with his betters around the world.

It would be difficult to go to war, bribe oil shieks and torture-pen jobbers, blackwater mercenaries couldn't form butch's private strike force unless he used his own money...so many good things would happen with States rights restored and enhanced that I think the problems with interstate commerce etc. make it worth while.

Meanwhile...back in the real world, if a poiulation wants to honor their forebears, I believe they shouldn't be treated as errant children but allowed their own choices and values as adult citizens...I thought that attitude was what our founding fathers based the idea of our melting-pot freedom upon.

If the KKK can apply for a licence, donn their sheets and march down main street...then what could possibly be the problem with honoring one's history?

Not eveyone needs to like something before it is considered just...that's the whole idea of america. That some pencil-neck in DC doesnt like it, doesn't mean squat...untill and unless that person decides to act against another's rights. We are allowing the feds to beat the drum and call the tune...this is bullshit.

The laws historically have always considered the local norm into what is and should be proper...but the feds are jack-booting that historic wisdom.

That of all the 50 States, not one of them has legal pot, stem cell research, and fighting to maintain free choice and the very basis of science, show the degree federal law supercedes state law...that states are treated as conquered territories and have no self law running counter to that of the fed.

The Iraq administration shows more independance from US will then does any state...what has happened to us?

And we "discuss" what's proper about displaying the confederate battle flag...how trivialized we have become....we can't even find a proper question to consider.

Stefan

[Mr. Blue]

When the isignia is spread across the entire hood it looks much differently than it otherwise would & this is the intended effect. It looks like the " General Lee'" from the Dukes of Hazard tv show.

:disbelief:

[Linkster]

Stefan - I totally agree and am sickened every time I hear one more person get "offended" by something in the US - reminds me of a favorite older gentleman I listen to occassionally on the radio in the morning - his favorite phrase is "The United States of the Offended" - and boy he's right.

To put it mildly - if something offends you - look the other fucking way :thumbsup:

I could go on and on about things people find to be offended about but Ill save that for my book Im writing :)

[Betty Blowtorch]

It's silly to be offended by a flag.http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8271/confederateflagbearertp2.gif


http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5746/naziswastikaresizeui4.png


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5904/flagresizesmallerfg7.png

Oooooo!! I like the pretty colors!!

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3974/bushbongnj1.png

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

I believe the confederate battle flag should be allowed to fly or be symbolized anywhere someone wants to display it.

I am net southern, nor do I share their views about slavery...mostly because freeing the slaves didn't evaporate five billion 1860 dollars from my economy...I do believe in States' rights as the only means to keep the DC government honest...we have lost too much power to DC from the states, and should cut the federal allowance down by 90%, keeping their own taxes in the State and govern directly from a local tax base their local laws.

I'm well aware of the great number of problems this would cause, but I believe it is worth it for what we, as "the" people would gain.

If those crazy texans want to go kick some peasant ass, Mass. and Delaware wouldn't be buying them their ticket and packing their lunch.

I can't stand that I am responsible for every utterance from that asshole's mouth as he interacts with his betters around the world.

It would be difficult to go to war, bribe oil shieks and torture-pen jobbers, blackwater mercenaries couldn't form butch's private strike force unless he used his own money...so many good things would happen with States rights restored and enhanced that I think the problems with interstate commerce etc. make it worth while.

Meanwhile...back in the real world, if a poiulation wants to honor their forebears, I believe they shouldn't be treated as errant children but allowed their own choices and values as adult citizens...I thought that attitude was what our founding fathers based the idea of our melting-pot freedom upon.

If the KKK can apply for a licence, donn their sheets and march down main street...then what could possibly be the problem with honoring one's history?

Not eveyone needs to like something before it is considered just...that's the whole idea of america. That some pencil-neck in DC doesnt like it, doesn't mean squat...untill and unless that person decides to act against another's rights. We are allowing the feds to beat the drum and call the tune...this is bullshit.

The laws historically have always considered the local norm into what is and should be proper...but the feds are jack-booting that historic wisdom.

That of all the 50 States, not one of them has legal pot, stem cell research, and fighting to maintain free choice and the very basis of science, show the degree federal law supercedes state law...that states are treated as conquered territories and have no self law running counter to that of the fed.

The Iraq administration shows more independance from US will then does any state...what has happened to us?

And we "discuss" what's proper about displaying the confederate battle flag...how trivialized we have become....we can't even find a proper question to consider.

Stefan
You don't mind seeing the confederate flag flown because ,as a white person ( which I'm assuming you are) you like the " in your face" message it attempts to send to african-americans. This is another example of " white people" trying to hold on to the past because his/her influence in the future will be less than it is today. The confederate flag represents a group who tried to overthrow the U S government. It wasn't a bunch of "dumbass southerners" as some people like to think of it. The confederate flag belongs right up there with the Nazi flag & the former Soviet Union's flag, 2 other groups who attempted to overthrow the U S government. If Al-Queda had a flag, I'd include them as well.

[Linkster]

I dont think the confederate flag represented anyone that was trying to overthrow any government - as a matter of fact the states that were part of the confederacy had suceeded from the US and had formed their own country with their own government,money,postal system etc - it was the US government that told them they couldnt do it and invaded their country as the US depended heavily on the southern states imports and money.

It also had very little (if any) to do with white vs black or any of the common stories kids get taught in the growing up phase of school - it was all about states rights
The slavery issue was really not a main catalyst for the sucession or even the war - that was something added in by the president of the US to make it an emotional issue to drive sentiment (Lincoln)

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

I dont think the confederate flag represented anyone that was trying to overthrow any government - as a matter of fact the states that were part of the confederacy had suceeded from the US and had formed their own country with their own government,money,postal system etc - it was the US government that told them they couldnt do it and invaded their country as the US depended heavily on the southern states imports and money.

It also had very little (if any) to do with white vs black or any of the common stories kids get taught in the growing up phase of school - it was all about states rights
The slavery issue was really not a main catalyst for the sucession or even the war - that was something added in by the president of the US to make it an emotional issue to drive sentiment (Lincoln)
Right, they suceeded & were brought back into the fold. Slavery may not have been the primary reason for the civil war but alot of people knew it couldn't be allowed to continue. For it it did it would have fostered a separtist attitude among whites & blacks. Aolso more devleoped nations,which the U S wanted to be a part of, had abolished slavery or were in the process of doing so. But my orginal post was about how the Cingular emblam on their NASCAR racecar looks like the confederate flag. You can't tell me it doesn't.

[stefan segal]

Linkster...as I recall the history, Lincoln wanted to free the slaves in hope to cripple the southern forces by making them fearful for their wives and children amongst renegade blacks running amock at home, but Lincoln needed to wait for a telling victory so his cheney-like plan wouldn't be seen for what it was...this is why it took him so long to make the proclaimation.

You're right about his lack of interest in slavery though, I believe his "treatment" for the "problem" was to ship them all to Trinadad or some such...equality was not in his thinking (as far as I know) at the time of the proclanation, but only later with plans of reconstruction did he address black rights and what they should look like.

Stefan

[stefan segal]

Linkster...as I recall the history, Lincoln wanted to free the slaves in hope to cripple the southern forces by making them fearful for their wives and children amongst renegade blacks running amock at home, but Lincoln needed to wait for a telling victory so his cheney-like plan wouldn't be seen for what it was...this is why it took him so long to make the proclaimation.

You're right about his lack of interest in slavery though, I believe his "treatment" for the "problem" was to ship them all to Trinadad or some such...equality was not in his thinking (as far as I know) at the time of the proclanation, but only later with plans of reconstruction did he address black rights and what they should look like.

Stefan

[stefan segal]

Lunch...your pathology with color borders on sickness.

People who are comfortable in their own being, don't think in terms of race.

I am one of those people, and since you can't possibly understand or surmise what a person like myself is thinking or moreso what values accessed to make such choices, I would suggest when assigning words to put into someone's mouth, you don't take those ideas from your own cogitations.

The fact that I am making a one-man jihad against repugs and so called christians, is not bigottry, as those two groups are fucking with my rights as a
american citizen. Not to strike back in some fashion would only prove I deserve to loose those rights. (The repugs, fearful of loosing their position at public trough, are now making noises approaching humanistic behavior...I note this, but unless and until they refuse to enable butch & co. I'd sooner see them go down in flames)

For me to go postal over a colored rag, would put me in the same class as getting violent because a kid is wearing a T-shirt with: "Fuck cheney and the bush he rode in on."...it's all free speech...live with it, it's the law of the land.

Grow up lunch...your bigotry is really embarassing. I hope that you will someday mature to the point where you'll be embarassed also.

Stefan

[Linkster]

I guess I dont get it - I dont see anything to do with a flag in the nascar emblem on the Cingular car - here's the emblem from the car:
http://www.milleniumrc.com/images/car/big/280.jpg

Heres the way you can make your own version of the logo in photoshop:
http://www.purephotoshop.com/article/52

Now when I go and look at a confederate flag I dont see any legs and arms - and I sure dont see a head for the guy???
Maybe Im just missing the point here? I've known enough bigots in my life and had enough crosses burned on my front lawn when I was a kid to recognize one of the flags - and I still dont see it

[Betty Blowtorch]

I've known enough bigots in my life and had enough crosses
burned on my front lawn when I was a kid...
Wow!! You had crosses burned on your front lawn?
How cool.

Does the KKK have a request line where you can call in
and schedule a cross-burning for special occasions like
birthdays and weddings?

I feel so left out. I'd love to have a cross-burning on
my front lawn. If I had a front lawn.

[stefan segal]

Blowtorch...I don't think you have a grasp on the cross burning thing...the next step is they burn you out, or if you happen to be of a dark persuasion...they take you out and lynch you.

I fail to see any humor in mobs brutalizing people...white or black.

In the south in the 40's, they had city signs in the parks..."no dogs or jews"...isn't that hillarious???

Slow down and think a moment before you leap into an attitude.

Stefan

[Linkster]

Just a quick answer - basically my mother was the reporter who kinda upset a whole bunch of white folk down south where we lived at the time with her civil rights articles in the newspapers - this was at the end of the 50s and early 60s. Need less to say my dad had to carry a gun everywhere we went including when he was hiding his black co-worker in the back seat on the way to work to keep him from getting strung up(they didnt take kindly to black guys having these new fangled computer jobs making more money than them)

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

Lunch...your pathology with color borders on sickness.

People who are comfortable in their own being, don't think in terms of race.

I am one of those people, and since you can't possibly understand or surmise what a person like myself is thinking or moreso what values accessed to make such choices, I would suggest when assigning words to put into someone's mouth, you don't take those ideas from your own cogitations.

The fact that I am making a one-man jihad against repugs and so called christians, is not bigottry, as those two groups are fucking with my rights as a
american citizen. Not to strike back in some fashion would only prove I deserve to loose those rights. (The repugs, fearful of loosing their position at public trough, are now making noises approaching humanistic behavior...I note this, but unless and until they refuse to enable butch & co. I'd sooner see them go down in flames)

For me to go postal over a colored rag, would put me in the same class as getting violent because a kid is wearing a T-shirt with: "Fuck cheney and the bush he rode in on."...it's all free speech...live with it, it's the law of the land.

Grow up lunch...your bigotry is really embarassing. I hope that you will someday mature to the point where you'll be embarassed also.

Stefan
This "colored rag" is used much more than some t-shirt & is used to try to keep a particular group down, can you name anything else used in this manner.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

I guess I dont get it - I dont see anything to do with a flag in the nascar emblem on the Cingular car - here's the emblem from the car:
http://www.milleniumrc.com/images/car/big/280.jpg

Heres the way you can make your own version of the logo in photoshop:
http://www.purephotoshop.com/article/52

Now when I go and look at a confederate flag I dont see any legs and arms - and I sure dont see a head for the guy???
Maybe Im just missing the point here? I've known enough bigots in my life and had enough crosses burned on my front lawn when I was a kid to recognize one of the flags - and I still dont see it
The emblem on the actual race car looks different than your picture. Its spread from corner to corner giving it the confederate flag look. You'd have to watch a NASCAR race to see what I mean.

[Linkster]

actually I do watch nascar all the time - it provides a good background for Sunday naps :) Of course my fav is always at the end of the line (D Jarrett) but at least he was the champ for one year

I really dont see it on the car but I guess thats cause I remember that same logo when it first came out being used a little man waving his arms and jumping around so the logo always just makes me think of that little cartoon man

I should probably also say that it certainly wouldnt effect me one way or the other if someone actually put the confederate flag on a car in these races - or anywhere else they want to - its a part of history and would effect me the same way the old black power and black panther flags affected me which was not at all - they are symbols of certain things and since I dont associate the confederate flag with anything bad, I guess its a non issue to me

To take it to the final step - even if something symbolized something bad to some people - does that mean that no one should use the symbol? I think that would be a little short-sighted and bigoted - I suppose I could get really riled up and say something like the Black Entertainment Network represents bigotry at its clearest and push to start a White Entertainment Network - but then isnt that kinda just pissing in the wind since its obvious that bigoted people will always exist and I tend to just look within myself and know where my mind sits on the issue :)

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

actually I do watch nascar all the time - it provides a good background for Sunday naps :) Of course my fav is always at the end of the line (D Jarrett) but at least he was the champ for one year

I really dont see it on the car but I guess thats cause I remember that same logo when it first came out being used a little man waving his arms and jumping around so the logo always just makes me think of that little cartoon man

I should probably also say that it certainly wouldnt effect me one way or the other if someone actually put the confederate flag on a car in these races - or anywhere else they want to - its a part of history and would effect me the same way the old black power and black panther flags affected me which was not at all - they are symbols of certain things and since I dont associate the confederate flag with anything bad, I guess its a non issue to me

To take it to the final step - even if something symbolized something bad to some people - does that mean that no one should use the symbol? I think that would be a little short-sighted and bigoted - I suppose I could get really riled up and say something like the Black Entertainment Network represents bigotry at its clearest and push to start a White Entertainment Network - but then isnt that kinda just pissing in the wind since its obvious that bigoted people will always exist and I tend to just look within myself and know where my mind sits on the issue :)
Well. what's somewhat confusing is that everytime reparations for african-americans is brought up, people bitch but these same people don't have a problem with the confederate flag ( which is symbolic of the reason african-americans beleive they deserve reparations ) being flown & shown.

[Mr. Blue]

Just passing through...since I still don't see the cingular logo as a confederate flag...I will say, they suck as a cellphone company.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

Just passing through...since I still don't see the cingular logo as a confederate flag...I will say, they suck as a cellphone company.
That's probably why they're catering to the NASCAR crowd.

[Linkster]

. It looks like the " General Lee'" from the Dukes of Hazard tv show.

Maybe Im too old to remember but I sure dont remember anything being on the hood of that orange car? - I remember a number on the door but thats it - Ill have to watch again today but when I watched an episode yesterday there was no flags anywhere?

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

Maybe Im too old to remember but I sure dont remember anything being on the hood of that orange car? - I remember a number on the door but thats it - Ill have to watch again today but when I watched an episode yesterday there was no flags anywhere?
There's a confederate flag on the hood. As a matter of fact, the 2 actors in the show were to make an appearance with the car & were shut down because of the flag on the hood.

[juggernaut]

Come on now. This thing looks more like a cum shot on the hood then that flag. And Linkster your a white guy, why were crosses burned on your lawn?

[Linkster]

juggernaut - my mother was a pretty well known civil rights activist who just happened to be a newspaper reporter in the south - and she spoke her mind in her editorial columns throughout northern Florida and southern Georgia :)

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

Come on now. This thing looks more like a cum shot on the hood then that flag. And Linkster your a white guy, why were crosses burned on your lawn?
To see what the Cingular car really looke like, you must see it in actual race not a picture from their website. The 2 are very different. The actual NASCAR car is much larger & goes from corner to corner on the hood.

[juggernaut]

juggernaut - my mother was a pretty well known civil rights activist who just happened to be a newspaper reporter in the south - and she spoke her mind in her editorial columns throughout northern Florida and southern Georgia :)
sorry to hear that. No one shoud have had to deal with that nonsense. Must have been scary as hell as a young boy to see that crap. But you turned out pretty smart and well rounded which is a good thing.

[Linkster]

Im gonna go out on a limb here and recommend that you find a closer image to campaign against - you could probably start with my states flag - still has a real confederate flag on it in addition to the square bars - Mississippi voted 2-1 a few years back to keep that flag when it came under fire

Or pick something like the Presidents US seal that has a star of David made out of 13 stars

Or maybe one of the other states that still has the X without the stars in it like Alabama, Hawaii and Florida - or maybe the reverse flag with the stars of the confederacy used in Arkansas's flag - or heck - go back to the beginning when that X was used onthe Grand Union flag - the first flag of the USA adopted by the Continental Congress in 1775 and then flown by George Washington in 1776 - that X comes from the British Union Jack where it was used with a cross over it - and still is to this day if I remember correctly

[juggernaut]

To see what the Cingular car really looke like, you must see it in actual race not a picture from their website. The 2 are very different. The actual NASCAR car is much larger & goes from corner to corner on the hood.Well I can't really say i will ever see it, as NASCAR or any other sport IMHO is boring and a waste of time. I once knew a photographer who shot those races and I asked her what anyone saw in that entertainment. I was told "Nothing" it's just a place to get together with other roudy bored people and drink. People do a few things at those races. 1 get drunk, 2 sleep in their camper, 3 wait for a crash. If I wanted to sit in the sun for hours at a time and drink I would do it on a beach. The girls look better and I dont have to get high from the smell of fuel wafting up my nose all day long. If you really think that car is a toss back to a hidden race war then write the company of your distaste for their logo. Maybe they will remove it. :lmao2:

[Linkster]

juggernaut - I think those points reflect most sports venues :) At least the different types Ive seen all over the world from Aussie Football to bullfights to US football to soccer matches

Im not so sure about the girl statement though - Ive seen some real hotties hanging at Nascar events :) although they iusually have 50 guys hanging off of them (hmm sounds like the beach)

Thats why I enjoy the biz Im in where you can get up close and "personal" with as many hotties as you want whenever you want and let someone else pay for the venue :)

[juggernaut]

juggernaut - I think those points reflect most sports venues :) At least the different types Ive seen all over the world from Aussie Football to bullfights to US football to soccer matches

Im not so sure about the girl statement though - Ive seen some real hotties hanging at Nascar events :) although they iusually have 50 guys hanging off of them (hmm sounds like the beach)

Thats why I enjoy the biz Im in where you can get up close and "personal" with as many hotties as you want whenever you want and let someone else pay for the venue :)
LOL yeah sports are full of some serious drinkers. Not that other things are not. But it sure is funny to see them at the games making super fools of themselves. Now you know the business I'm in. In fact just started a real mainstream one and things are going outstanding. Thats why I'm not around much but I'm sure no one misses my rableings lol. Should have done this years ago and I would not be working today. But you have also seen my wife I persume as many have. I only look lol no touchy as I'm not about to risk what i have :)

[Linkster]

Dont blame ya a bit :)