Greenland Icesheet Melting FASTER than Predicted

[disrupter]

Greenland Ice Sheet Melting Faster Than Expected;
Larger Contributor To Sea-level Rise Than Thought

ScienceDaily (June 13, 2009) — The

Greenland ice sheet is melting faster than expected,

according to a new study led by a University of Alaska Fairbanks researcher and published in the journal Hydrological Processes.

Study results indicate that the ice sheet may be responsible for nearly 25 percent of global sea rise in the past 13 years. The study also shows that seas now are rising by more than 3 millimeters a year--more than 50 percent faster than the average for the 20th century.

UAF researcher Sebastian H. Mernild and colleagues from the United States, United Kingdom and Denmark discovered that from 1995 to 2007, overall precipitation on the ice sheet decreased while surface ablation--the combination of evaporation, melting and calving of the ice sheet--increased. According to Mernild’s new data, since 1995 the ice sheet lost an average of 265 cubic kilometers per year, which has contributed to about 0.7 millimeters per year in global sea level rise. These figures do not include thermal expansion--the expansion of the ice volume in response to heat--so the contribution could be up to twice that.

The Greenland ice sheet has been of considerable interest to researchers over the last few years as one of the major indicators of climate change. In late 2000/early 2001 and in 2007, major glacier calving events sent up to 44 square miles of ice into the sea at a time. Researchers are studying these major events as well as the less dramatic ongoing melting of the ice sheet through runoff and surface processes.

Ice melt from a warming Arctic has two major effects on the ocean. First, increased water contributes to global sea-level rise, which in turn affects coastlines across the globe. Second, fresh water from melting ice changes the salinity of the world’s oceans, which can affect ocean ecosystems and deep water mixing.

“Increasing sea level rise will be a problem in the future for people living in coastal regions around the globe,” said Mernild. “Even a small sea level rise can be a problem for these communities. It is our hope that this research can provide people with accurate information needed to plan for protecting people and communities.”http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090612092741.htm

Humans have to get real or die by their own unaccountable actions.

[radioguy]

Every time I see an opinion from one of you "global warming" alarmists, this comes to mind:

Kqewojda3M0

[MintJulep]

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/foilhats_400.jpg

[disrupter]

You people are fucking crazy.

You are dangerous, to human beings & every other living thing.

[Bill Cosby]

Every time I see an opinion from one of you "global warming" alarmists, this comes to mind:

Kqewojda3M0

Yea & this to................. :thumbsup:

http://exitstageright.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/head-in-sand-500.gif

[Bill Cosby]

[size=4]Greenland Ice Sheet Melting Faster Than Expected.



http://www.detectingdesign.com/images/AncientIce/Portage%20Glacier%20Melt.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/futurecities/Ag_Upsala_Glacier.jpg

http://www.livescience.com/images/030324_glacierB_03.jpg

[Mr. Blue]

The Earth has away of repairing itself and also destroying everything in its wake. Even if man completely went green tomorrow, there would still be the potential for cataclysmic type events that would happen.

If anything the history of the Earth shows that nothing lasts forever, that human history is but a blimp on the timeline of Earth, and great natural disasters can easily wipe out the human race in one quick motion.

Also cycles in the weather have existed long before humans started helping the problem along. Remember, this place used to be pretty hot during the time of dinosaurs, pretty cold during the time of the woolly mammoth, etc.

I'm not saying that we should be harmful to the environment, because we shouldn't...what I am saying is, we're probably doomed regardless as Earth is very fickle and likes mass extinction every once and awhile.

[Bill Cosby]

The Earth has away of repairing itself and also destroying everything in its wake. Even if man completely went green tomorrow, there would still be the potential for cataclysmic type events that would happen.

If anything the history of the Earth shows that nothing lasts forever, that human history is but a blimp on the timeline of Earth, and great natural disasters can easily wipe out the human race in one quick motion.

Also cycles in the weather have existed long before humans started helping the problem along. Remember, this place used to be pretty hot during the time of dinosaurs, pretty cold during the time of the woolly mammoth, etc.

I'm not saying that we should be harmful to the environment, because we shouldn't...what I am saying is, we're probably doomed regardless as Earth is very fickle and likes mass extinction every once and awhile.

Yea thats great like we got a hundred thousand to a million or so years to wait for things to get back to "our normal"....

There has been lots of these green house gases in the air before......

What happened then???:hi:

All that stuff buried in the ground is the only thing preventing another drastic global temp change..... Once it is in the air it takes a long long long time to get back in there.......

It may already be to late........

[Mr. Blue]

Yea thats great like we got a hundred thousand to a million or so years to wait for things to get back to "our normal"....

There has been lots of these green house gases in the air before......

What happened then???:hi:

All that stuff buried in the ground is the only thing preventing another drastic global temp change..... Once it is in the air it takes a long long long time to get back in there.......

It may already be to late........

The possibility for another ice age, possibility for a meteor hitting, the possibility of any number of random possibilities causes human existence to become null and void.

Do I think we should help it along? Of course not, but the human race has a potential for extinction at any given moment. Stephen Hawkins has it right, basically saying that colonizing in space is the only way to increase humanities possibility for survival.

Also, America becomes green tomorrow, will China, Russia, etc, jump on that bandwagon? So, are we going to go to war to enforce green standards? I'd love to see the sales pitch for that war. There's a certain futility in it all.

What I'd really like to see is NASA getting a lot more funding, work on space travel, etc, but that's a hard sell in our current economy.

I'm all for green stuff, I do all the environmentally "right" things but I remember this one economics teacher that was a real tree hugger. He one time stood in front of the class bawling, I don't mean a little crying, I mean, uncontrollably crying, because he visited the forest and communed with the trees...I'm choosing extinction before I become that guy.

[Bill Cosby]

The possibility for another ice age, possibility for a meteor hitting, the possibility of any number of random possibilities causes human existence to become null and void.

Do I think we should help it along? Of course not, but the human race has a potential for extinction at any given moment. Stephen Hawkins has it right, basically saying that colonizing in space is the only way to increase humanities possibility for survival.

Also, America becomes green tomorrow, will China, Russia, etc, jump on that bandwagon? So, are we going to go to war to enforce green standards? I'd love to see the sales pitch for that war. There's a certain futility in it all.

What I'd really like to see is NASA getting a lot more funding, work on space travel, etc, but that's a hard sell in our current economy.

I'm all for green stuff, I do all the environmentally "right" things but I remember this one economics teacher that was a real tree hugger. He one time stood in front of the class bawling, I don't mean a little crying, I mean, uncontrollably crying, because he visited the forest and communed with the trees...I'm choosing extinction before I become that guy.

Wow.. THat last paragraph is a bit troubling........ I hope you gave him a hug & a fresh cut flower, or told him you were gonna walk home...lol

Where was this?? That a man so rarely visits the great expanse.........???

You are totally correct...... China alone is bringing on line a coal plant (medium) about every two weeks......

Going to war to stop it would defeat the purpose, none the less that means we should do nothing??

I am on board for the space thing...... None of us will ever live long enough to see it........

[flying carpet]

The arrogance of men who think they can have an effect on the laws of nature.

[Bill Cosby]

What are those laws......????

[Mr. Blue]

Wow.. THat last paragraph is a bit troubling........ I hope you gave him a hug & a fresh cut flower, or told him you were gonna walk home...lol

Where was this?? That a man so rarely visits the great expanse.........???

You are totally correct...... China alone is bringing on line a coal plant (medium) about every two weeks......

Going to war to stop it would defeat the purpose, none the less that means we should do nothing??

I am on board for the space thing...... None of us will ever live long enough to see it........

Hofstra University, the professor, if I'm not much mistaken was visiting Costa Rica, and when he started to bawl I just sat there and it was...ummm...no really...extinction is better.

See this is where I run into the "environmentalist" wall with China. I mean, you'll have a U.S. environmentalist nearly jump you if you don't do everything 100% the way they do it, but then there's China churning out coal plants and you just go...wtf...travel to China and bug them (which would probably not go over so well with the Chinese and they'd be imprisoned for life).

What could the U.S. really do to enforce this idea of green?

Here's the solution as I see it. We need to make a green economy, not only friendly for the environment, but more profitable than the old polluting crap we do now.

How do you make a green economy more attractive than what we have now and more attractive to the world? Purely comes down to new technology, cheap clean energy, that we'd be willing to share with the world.

No amount of, plastic bag vs. paper bag vs. bring your own bag is going to really save the environment, but building some new great technology that makes using coal stupid, umm, yeah, I think that might do more than taking a bag to the grocery store.

And you're right, we won't see real space travel in our life times, but we gotta start now and keep the funding going even if it feels like it doesn't make any sense. I'd rather be building space stuff than blowing shit up in the middle east.

[Bill Cosby]

LOL........... I thought it would be somewhere in or around the city....

I use to live a few miles from there in Rockaway....

Yep techonoly is the only solution @ this point........ That is assuming they can not only halt but perhaps reverse some of the gases that have already been released back into the active environment...

[ROdger Right]

First we must set up bases across our solar system on different planets and moons for varying purposes. Astronomy would be a good start. Then we could test all types of shit thats to dangorous for earth. Shipping docks in case we want to start mining or some thing like that, conveyer belt or pipelines.

For earth though and we should start in America and then offer incentives of some sort depending on the country in question to follow suit.

To have better control on output on green house gases is a start. What also could be useful is a way to get rid these gases. To be able to control how much we take back from the earth into different forms. With trees and plankton and shit. Then we could start reducing or increasing gases depending on the change of cliamate in question.

[ROdger Right]

A way to enforce this change would mean a war with China and the takeover of Greenland. We then would let China rule it self but we would be to keep the western part. Its been talked about irragating before nothing formal but forget the region. We then would have a large control over the worlds food and water and supply countries fully for nothing or for turning green.

[Bill Cosby]

I guess you know CHina has nukes???

I guess you don't know that they already have water issues......... Lots of them..

In securing control of the food supply how many dead are acceptable..

Americans...???

The insignificants/collateral damage, others etc....

[Mr. Blue]

I guess he also doesn't know China could devalue the U.S. Dollar tomorrow and we'd be screwed. War with China is an impossibility...the nukes would fly...and I don't really see that as better than our current pollution problem.

Only solution is technology. The thing is we're not really encouraging it as much as we should. I mean you have some people like Dean Kamen screwing around with Sterling Engines, but there has to be more incentives, umm, of a financial variety, for people to even begin to attempt to change the way we do things.

[disrupter]

Mr. Blue is very casual & banal about human survival.

While intellectually i understand his ambivalence, as a human being i have a vested, selfish interest in seeing humanity survive, even if it is statistically impossible that i personally will live forever.

It may be that we simply don't have the intellectual command & self-control to survive, but if we make no effort, have a lack of will or commitment then our probability of survival heads to zero.

Come on, Mr. Blue, jump on the survival of humanity band wagon if for no other reason than a 'lark'.

[Mr. Blue]

Mr. Blue is very casual & banal about human survival.

While intellectually i understand his ambivalence, as a human being i have a vested, selfish interest in seeing humanity survive, even if it is statistically impossible that i personally will live forever.

It may be that we simply don't have the intellectual command & self-control to survive, but if we make no effort, have a lack of will or commitment then our probability of survival heads to zero.

Come on, Mr. Blue, jump on the survival of humanity band wagon if for no other reason than a 'lark'.

I'm just a realist. I save all the hyper-emotionalism for the left and right. What I do is look at the problem and try to find a solution that works within the human condition.

Humans are greedy. We'll have no environmental change if we don't feed the beast and feeding the beast means making a green economy more profitable than what we currently have. The only way to make green work is by coming out with new technologies that are just so far superior to what we do have that it makes it appealing to greedy humans.

That's it. Environmentalist tend to focus on minutia and ignore the fact that they will never have control over a country like China. The only way to make China become environmentally sound is to come up with new technology and be willing to share it with them.

There is no other solution. As for the survival of humanity, well, that's kind of why I support the space program, why I support solutions that need to be off planet, yikes, I know, but Stephen Hawkins is completely right about that. The Earth, while it's a cool place to live, has had enough mass exterminations for me to realize that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have a backup plan just in case.

[bairdi]

I'm just a realist. I save all the hyper-emotionalism for the left and right. What I do is look at the problem and try to find a solution that works within the human condition.

Humans are greedy. We'll have no environmental change if we don't feed the beast and feeding the beast means making a green economy more profitable than what we currently have. The only way to make green work is by coming out with new technologies that are just so far superior to what we do have that it makes it appealing to greedy humans.

That's it. Environmentalist tend to focus on minutia and ignore the fact that they will never have control over a country like China. The only way to make China become environmentally sound is to come up with new technology and be willing to share it with them.

There is no other solution. As for the survival of humanity, well, that's kind of why I support the space program, why I support solutions that need to be off planet, yikes, I know, but Stephen Hawkins is completely right about that. The Earth, while it's a cool place to live, has had enough mass exterminations for me to realize that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have a backup plan just in case.
I've often wondered if the Earth, in fact, is the backup plan. Sometimes it seems like such a foreign idea to take a perfectly good planet, cover the soft earth with hard concrete, and build what amounts huge colonies rising into the sky. ;)

[disrupter]

It sounds good, surviving in space,

but imagining we are ever going to come up with a system that is self-sustaining for perpetuity is based on unintended arrogance.

In a few centuries we might come close,

but there is no replacing Earth.
Earth is make or break for us.

With Global Warming happening faster than predicted & accelerating we may not have that 'few' centuries.

I think if one takes the impulse we have to religion and allow care of our planet to be that visceral commitment it might make the difference.

[Hog Trash]

Greenland Ice Sheet Melting Faster Than Expected;
Larger Contributor To Sea-level Rise Than Thought

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090612092741.htm

Humans have to get real or die by their own unaccountable actions.Awh hell naw!....Say it aint so!

Somebody get Al Gore on the phone, FAST!

I'm gonna need me some more of those Carbon Credits!

*

[disrupter]

LOL!

Hoggy, you are outrageous. very funny.

[Mr. Blue]

I've often wondered if the Earth, in fact, is the backup plan. Sometimes it seems like such a foreign idea to take a perfectly good planet, cover the soft earth with hard concrete, and build what amounts huge colonies rising into the sky. ;)

lol, yeah that's true.

There's lots to wonder about Earth, the universe, and man's nearly insignificant role in it all, lol. One only has to look at the size of the Earth compared to Antares and it's a humbling thought.

Man tends to be full of hubris when it comes to their existence, for me though, I'm kind of surprised we even lasted this long, lol. Our future rests in humans being better than what they currently are and that's a hard nut to crack.

[disrupter]

It is everyone else who needs to improve,

me?

i am nearly perfect! ;) (completely facetious, but i am trying)

[kres24GT]

Like SARS, swine flu, global cooling, terrorism, Y2K, Bird Flu, killer bees, and so on and so on. No one pays attention to these media hyped politician fear mongering things anymore.

[disrupter]

BTW if you are using both incandescent bulbs and summertime air conditioning you are fighting yourself.

Incandescents crank out lots of heat, that you spend more AC cooling off.

Which just costs you money & the planet more CO2,

& besides it is just more comfortable [& less noisy] for you.

Get some Compact fluorescents for the summer, & save your incandescent bulbs for next winter.

note: they do contain mercury so be careful about cleaning up if they break & disposing of them, but they do last much longer than incandescent bulbs, but they are more expensive.

[Mr. Blue]

It is everyone else who needs to improve,

me?

i am nearly perfect! ;) (completely facetious, but i am trying)

:lmao2:

Well, heck, I know I'm perfect and that's not the big glass of ego juice I just drank talking, lol.

[disrupter]

lol, you & me both,

you & me both.

[ROdger Right]

I guess you know CHina has nukes???

I guess you don't know that they already have water issues......... Lots of them..

In securing control of the food supply how many dead are acceptable..

Americans...???

The insignificants/collateral damage, others etc....\

We would attack them the same way they have planned to attack us preemptivly which is an emp over the US somewhere in the atmosphere. Except we do this in China and secure all the nukes we can.

Millions of people are going to starve to death anyways in the near future at an increasing rate. If we accomplished our goals and fartmed that land then eventually our debt could be earased do to the demand of food and clean water across the globe.

[Bill Cosby]

You have 823 posts here.... That has to be the worst........ What you smoke today?? Drink?? Drop???

You are talking about nuclear war. Nuking a billion ppl..........

You are talking another holocaust on a massive scale......... & hope we get all of them & al their nukes.....

Would not take many to take out 20-30 top American cities.. Hopefully you are not in one of them..............

Pls in the future don't talk to me about this childish insanity....

[ROdger Right]

So goes the question of how many inncoent people would you kill for the cure for say cancer? In this case perhap[s just irradicating starvation and clean water supplies. Instead of having Coke owning a fairly large portion of the worlds underground water maybe someone with a little more accountiability.

Its an idea and if we wearnt owned by china one that could be handled in different ways. Say we hit the emp and take out alot of their nukes. We then have an untested missle defense system to try which is thought to be around 80% who knows. Might have some of those laser planes in the air at all times.

As usuall fortune favors the bold.

And btw im more like fiending than anything else.

[ROdger Right]

I don't believe nuking China would be a good idea and especially not heavily because of the wind currents where our allys Japan would be strickin with cancer for generations to come.

We would still have to totally and completly defeat the government in power to get any of this done. Then the chinese surviors along with other workers could perhaps build pipelines from the ocean to the location in question to provide fresh water. Of course we would have to treat before it goes on this journey. For a task as great as this is the reason we should commit genocide because we would need a great host of them to get the job done.

Plus, we would have to make sure that we dont over sell certain foods, so we wouldnt be destorying small farmers in the process.

[Bill Cosby]

So goes the question of how many inncoent people would you kill for the cure for say cancer? .

Well what if I said 100 starting w/ you, your mom & dad, sister brothers Grandparents, cousins etc..........????

You willing to be slaughtered for the possible betterment of mankind?? How bout volunteering granma & your cute cousin???

I am not willing to kill one innocent person for any reason what so ever....... Your thinking is nuts........

I am not going to do bad & hopes that good will come about...........

You need help my son......... YOu are a sickO..........

Your parents got health care??

Dr. Cos recommends you seek help A S A P!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill Cosby]

I don't believe nuking China would be a good idea and especially not heavily because of the wind currents where our allys Japan would be strickin with cancer for generations to come.

We would still have to totally and completly defeat the government in power to get any of this done. Then the chinese surviors along with other workers could perhaps build pipelines from the ocean to the location in question to provide fresh water. Of course we would have to treat before it goes on this journey. For a task as great as this is the reason we should commit genocide because we would need a great host of them to get the job done.

Plus, we would have to make sure that we dont over sell certain foods, so we wouldnt be destorying small farmers in the process.

For a task as great as this is the reason we should commit genocide because we would need a great host of them to get the job done.

You talk as if killing hundreds of millions & enslaving the rest to serve us is nothing........

These are ppl, not ants. They have their own lives..

We nuke them & let the rest live so they can make our lives better while we rape & pillage their resources........

You must of loved hitlre in history class... This is essentially what his thinking was.......... Fortunately for the rest of mankind neither of your have the ability or resources to bring your insanity to fruition...

[ROdger Right]

Ok fool it was supposed to be shouldn't. Why would i say we need a great host of them and in the same sentance say get rid of them all.

typo my mistake

My thinking might be nuts but the inncoent die for nothing now. As they usually do. Weigh both sides before you damn it all.

I guess dying of old age is a much greater accomplishment than an advancment in humanity in your thinking atleast.

President Jackson was a great man and a good president. He served his country well and you are wrong to oppose what he did. Presidents cannot be pacifists.

[ROdger Right]

If that idea doesn't fly with you, alright its a tough sell.

You haven't comented on the take over of greenland though which could be done easily and serve everybody very well.

[Bill Cosby]

Ok fool it was supposed to be shouldn't. Why would i say we need a great host of them and in the same sentance say get rid of them all.

typo my mistake

My thinking might be nuts but the inncoent die for nothing now. As they usually do. Weigh both sides before you damn it all.

I guess being dying of old age is a much greater accomplishment than an advancment in humanity in your thinking atleast.

President Jackson was a great man and a good president. He served his country well and you are wrong to oppose what he did. Presidents cannot be pacifists.

TypO.... ok Given your game & craZy shit it is hard to tell............. DunnO..


I guess being dying of old age is a much greater accomplishment than an advancment in humanity in your thinking atleast.

When you fix that I will address it so I don't miss what you actually are meaning to say here...........

President Jackson was a great man and a good president. .

Well from reading your 800+ posts & that statement I have no doubt you have no idea what Jackson did or did not do......

Vile, vain & vindictive man. The only President to ever defy the US supreme court..

Now go look them words up son & get back to me............

[Bill Cosby]

If that idea doesn't fly with you, alright its a tough sell.

You haven't comented on the take over of greenland though which could be done easily and serve everybody very well.
Yea it is a tuff sell........... lol:lmao2:

Take over Greenland.........:banghead:

Go look up who owns it first son............

Then ask yourself WTF we could possibly gain by taking it over???

Guarding glaciers???? :lmao2:

[ROdger Right]

Would think water is one of those baser elements towards human survival that would be nice to have an abundance of.

Selling glaciers

Self rule with denmark as the watcher. Would think we should beat out the U.N as I believe America would be more capable of the handling of greenlands resorces than the U.N.

[ROdger Right]

TypO.... ok Given your game & craZy shit it is hard to tell............. DunnO..




When you fix that I will address it so I don't miss what you actually are meaning to say here...........



Well from reading your 800+ posts & that statement I have no doubt you have no idea what Jackson did or did not do......

Vile, vain & vindictive man. The only President to ever defy the US supreme court..

Now go look them words up son & get back to me............

If the man didnt hand over his position then I would of changed my views but as firmly believing in something to the core I will choose to not punish. Although I do know enough about what he did, you bring up a single court case im not going to go look it up so enlighten me of what happened and what you disagree with but America is a better place for having him as our president.

[disrupter]

We are going to 'take over' Greenland so we can force the ice there to stay frozen?

Is there a sane argument somewhere that i lost track of? <seriously confused>

Last i heard the laws of physics were irrevocable.
Quantum uncertainty is wiggle room only on hyper-micro scales.

[ROdger Right]

You have heard of glacial water haven't you? From glaciers flow rivers that is about the best water you can get which is why I like the water up here.

Anyways if we capture and use enough of it wouldn't that stem the flow of freshwater flowing into the ocean and sea levels and what ever the fuck else you can come up with.

For all your liberal propaganda about global warming you seem to have no idea what to do but to complain disrupter.

[disrupter]

Water evaporates dear. So any capture/containment will have to be in completely sealed containers.

Ice is white. Ice reflects solar radiation, that keeps us cooler. Water does not [to any significant degree].

The amounts of water we are talking about are almost uncontainable, even with crude reservoirs, let alone sealed, 3D containers.

Never mind.
Just continue on in your weird fantasy realm.
It will take cogent minds to come up with any potential solutions.

[ROdger Right]

Im thinking of selling it jackass not sealing it in containers. Where the fuck could you even think that just hold it and do nothing with it.
We are out of money and you cant see the huge market for shit like and irragated western china or selling water.
Both projects which should be considered to large for a corporation to handled should then be government controlled to a degree and id hope we would control this because at the moment we are still the worlds angel.

You libs wanna do buisness in healthcare because its invetable buisness as these resorces are

[Hog Trash]

This whole global warming farse would be delightful entertainment to those of us who know better except for the human suffering that will be brought about by the destructive government policies enacted for power and greed.

In other words it's a scam that will be financed on the backs of the people who can afford it the least...The stuggling working class and the poor...And the liberals who proclaim to be the champions of the poor are feeding the frenzy the most.

[SeniorChief]

[size=4]Greenland Ice Sheet Melting Faster Than Expected

Who gives a fuck?

[ROdger Right]

This whole global warming farse would be delightful entertainment to those of us who know better except for the human suffering that will be brought about by the destructive government policies enacted for power and greed.

In other words it's a scam that will be financed on the backs of the people who can afford it the least...The stuggling working class and the poor...And the liberals who proclaim to be the champions of the poor are feeding the frenzy the most.

Their agenda proves this unfortunatley and it all has been turned into a scam.

[ROdger Right]

We are going to 'take over' Greenland so we can force the ice there to stay frozen?

Is there a sane argument somewhere that i lost track of? <seriously confused>

Last i heard the laws of physics were irrevocable.
Quantum uncertainty is wiggle room only on hyper-micro scales.

Anyways I thought a dam might be more suitable than containers, atleast then we could use cooling agents powered by the dam itself but thats only if we choose to try to experiment with such things because that seems like a money shredder idea any how.

[Bill Cosby]

If the man didnt hand over his position then I would of changed my views but as firmly believing in something to the core I will choose to not punish. Although I do know enough about what he did, you bring up a single court case im not going to go look it up so enlighten me of what happened and what you disagree with but America is a better place for having him as our president.

Sorry I am not going to waste my time educating you. CLiffy is a teacher ask him to hook you up w/ some books.......

Or just PM w/ some questions.......

Ask him for starters why did our president allow all those ppl to be taken from their "civilized" homes in Georgia & sent on the trail of tears............

If there was a present day leader to compare him w/ it would likely be someone in charge of the genocide in Rwanda or Serbia...

[Bill Cosby]

This whole global warming farse would be delightful entertainment to those of us who know better except for the human suffering that will be brought about by the destructive government policies enacted for power and greed.

In other words it's a scam that will be financed on the backs of the people who can afford it the least...The stuggling working class and the poor...And the liberals who proclaim to be the champions of the poor are feeding the frenzy the most.

those of us who know better

& what qualifies you to know better???

it's a scam

Yea you are smarter then all the leaders in 183 states that have signed and ratified the Kyoto Protocol..................lol

& smarter then all them disappearing glaciers to....

Ya'll can pretend all your want. Pretend the wind don't blow if yea like. It is still gonna blow.......

What I do agree on though is your pessimism...... That anything is gonna change regardless.......

China alone is bringing on line a medium sized coal plant every couple weeks........ If this keeps up, & there is no reason to think otherwiZe, we could all walk to work & not be able to off set that........

[disrupter]

Understand, Hoggy exists in a fuming, alcoholic haze.

For his sake & yours don't light a match anywhere near him.

[ROdger Right]

Sorry I am not going to waste my time educating you. CLiffy is a teacher ask him to hook you up w/ some books.......

Or just PM w/ some questions.......

Ask him for starters why did our president allow all those ppl to be taken from their "civilized" homes in Georgia & sent on the trail of tears............

If there was a present day leader to compare him w/ it would likely be someone in charge of the genocide in Rwanda or Serbia...

Alright you mention a court case then refuse to say what it was. Im not going to look it up as you don't want it to have any crediability in your foolish idea that Jackson was a bad man because he had to make a tough decision.

I mean we could of always let them keep on going to war with us, I know we won those wars but that doesn't mean we should not protect ourselves. If this is what you would have done then im postive there would have been no cherokee indians left as they would have been wiped from the face of the earth eventually. There was no easy and delightful choices and shame on you for believing there was a better option that could have taken place.

[ROdger Right]

& what qualifies you to know better???



Yea you are smarter then all the leaders in 183 states that have signed and ratified the Kyoto Protocol..................lol

& smarter then all them disappearing glaciers to....

Ya'll can pretend all your want. Pretend the wind don't blow if yea like. It is still gonna blow.......

China alone is bringing on line a medium sized coal plant every couple weeks........ If this keeps up, & there is no reason to think otherwiZe, we could all walk to work & not be able to off set that........

I'm glad to point out that glaciers have been receding for the past 10,000 years. As I would think most people could understand the smaller the ice gets the faster it melts as im sure you have experimented with cubed and crushed ice before.

[Bill Cosby]

I'm glad to point out that glaciers have been receding for the past 10,000 years. As I would think most people could understand the smaller the ice gets the faster it melts as im sure you have experimented with cubed and crushed ice before.

Greenland once was actually green......... The vikings/nordics actually had cows & the usual critters about for a while...... Then it got colder...... & colder.............. & colder.... & them critters started dying off......... Volcanoes, sun spots........ whatever........

There is always an ebb & flow........ Sometimes mild, as it has been recently & sometimes drastic.........

What is not in question here is what happens when all the gases trapped under ground are released back into the atmosphere..... Really it is not a mystery..........

There have been times in the past on our planet when the amount of these gases was higher........ SO we can see exactly what the results were...

They gonna happen anyway??

We don't know that......

We do know that if we continue to contribute it will matter....

The result will be the same........ That is, if it is volcanic or our burning of fossil fuel...........

[Bill Cosby]

Alright you mention a court case then refuse to say what it was. Im not going to look it up as you don't want it to have any crediability in your foolish idea that Jackson was a bad man because he had to make a tough decision.
.

So it is my fault you are ignorant of the trail of tears???

How he is the only president (& we had some real pricks) to defy the supreme court so he could continue his genocidal assault on Native ppls???

Hell I even recommended you talk to CLiffy............ A real teacher to educate you................

YOu have a real opportunity to learn something here............ Don'T squander it.........

[ROdger Right]

Of course I know what the trail of tears was, but I can't read minds and im sure there was more than one case made during his tenure.

Although I didn't know there was a surpreme court case ruling on it or I forgot but I do know what has happened in my country. I prefer to call them American indians instead of native American just on a side note.

Believe me I have known about the trail for a long time, im just willing to accept Jackson with the good and the bad. Cherokee blood still runs through my veins and they have nothing to be ashamed of. One side has to lose.

There are many people to blame for the inhumane treatment of the indians but now that I know your reasoning or part of it I can let it be.

He got away with it because he got away with everything else, preemptive strike on flordia, trail, murder probably because he whooped some british ass which use to be a national holiday.

[Hog Trash]

Understand, Hoggy exists in a fuming, alcoholic haze.

For his sake & yours don't light a match anywhere near him.:lmao2: Now that would bring on some real global warming! :lmao2:

Oh, and definately manmade. :lmao2:

[Hog Trash]

& what qualifies you to know better???



Yea you are smarter then all the leaders in 183 states that have signed and ratified the Kyoto Protocol..................lol

& smarter then all them disappearing glaciers to....

Ya'll can pretend all your want. Pretend the wind don't blow if yea like. It is still gonna blow.......

What I do agree on though is your pessimism...... That anything is gonna change regardless.......

China alone is bringing on line a medium sized coal plant every couple weeks........ If this keeps up, & there is no reason to think otherwiZe, we could all walk to work & not be able to off set that........Please allow me to rephrase my statement kind sir.

What I meant to say was, I'm a non-believer in man-made global warming.

[Bill Cosby]

Please allow me to rephrase my statement kind sir.

What I meant to say was, I'm a non-believer in man-made global warming.

Not sure what that means exactly...

That man is not the sole cause or not a cause what so ever.....???

All the greenhouses gases that man emits goes away somewhere???

[disrupter]

WTF is the difference who made it, Hoggy?

If the milk is spilled the adults still need to clean it up. Who spilled it is nothing but semantics. Like it is some kind of moral judgment. Who gives a flying rat's ass?

If the freight train is coming at you down the track you get off the track whether it is 'your' freight train or not.

You don't sit on the track quibbling over 'who's' freight train it is.

OH WAIT. The right wing idiots DO sit on the track arguing who's train it is & get turned into train burger in the process. lol

[Hog Trash]

Not sure what that means exactly...

That man is not the sole cause or not a cause what so ever.....???

All the greenhouses gases that man emits goes away somewhere???Climate change is a natural occurence that has taken place millions of times since the earth solidified 4 billion years ago and it will continue happening untill the day this planet burns into a cinder.....Unfuck your mind, boy!

Nothing human kind can do will change that...You can choose to believe Al Gore and his experts who desire to gain wealth and power off this scam or the experts who are telling you what you should have learned in K through 12.

[Bill Cosby]

Climate change is a natural occurence that has taken place millions of times since the earth solidified 4 billion years ago and it will continue happening untill the day this planet burns into a cinder.....

What causes that change to occur???

Can humans effect those causes???

Start there ........................:thumbsup:

[Bill Cosby]

Of course I know what the trail of tears was, but I can't read minds and im sure there was more than one case made during his tenure.

Although I didn't know there was a surpreme court case ruling on it or I forgot but I do know what has happened in my country. I prefer to call them American indians instead of native American just on a side note.

Believe me I have known about the trail for a long time, im just willing to accept Jackson with the good and the bad. Cherokee blood still runs through my veins and they have nothing to be ashamed of. One side has to lose.

There are many people to blame for the inhumane treatment of the indians but now that I know your reasoning or part of it I can let it be.

He got away with it because he got away with everything else, preemptive strike on flordia, trail, murder probably because he whooped some british ass which use to be a national holiday.

LOL......... So we are pretty much on the same page here...........

IMO what he did, & he did it often is/was tantamount to genocide & ethnic cleansing...

The Cherokee took their case to the supreme court & the Marshall court sided w/ them. That they had the right to remain in Georgia.......

jackson essentially told the supreme court to go fuck themselves & he allowed the state of Georgia to steal their property & break the treaties the federal government was suppose to uphold & honor...........

[Hog Trash]

What causes that change to occur???

Can humans effect those causes???

Start there ........................:thumbsup:Your liberal programming was so thorough and effective, you are hopelessly brainlocked.

No one can help you.....You have to want to help yourself in order to unfuck your mind.

[Bill Cosby]

Whatever. You really need to apply all that to yourself..............

You see things as you wish them to be, not as they are...........

YOu likely got a HS eduction & talking shit like you know more than 99.9% of the scientist of the planet.........

I think a 6th grader could figure this out...

If you fart in the bleachers @ the gym probably no body gonna smell it but you.......

If you fart in a crowded elevator everyone is gonna smell it.......

The volume of gas is the same- the effect is not..................
http://fracas.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/fart2.jpg