Healthcare Mandates to Profiteers is SLAVERY

[disrupter]

If there is no public, non-profit option & healthcare insurance Mandates, at point of gun,

Then it is bald, naked slavery.

Forced by police &/or government to pay for someone's profits violates the prohibition against slavery.

I believe in the 2nd amendment,
& this is one American who will not willingly be sold over by this government to slavery to the Medical Mafia Gangsters.

Single payer or nothing.

And if you take reasonable care of your health, nothing may be the better option.

[MintJulep]

Socialism is slavery.

[disrupter]

Socialism is indenturement to the collective good,

Mandates to these profiteers is naked, shameless slavery.

[kres24GT]

Who forces you to have health insurance?

[disrupter]

Um, wake up & get up to speed.

That is one of the common proposals in getting everyone 'insured'.

That is what Romney did in Massachusetts.

This is one of the things the Medical Mafia is hoping for.

Enslaving you to their gross, criminal profit machine.

[SeniorChief]

Um, wake up & get up to speed.

That is one of the common proposals in getting everyone 'insured'.

That is what Romney did in Massachusetts.

This is one of the things the Medical Mafia is hoping for.

Enslaving you to their gross, criminal profit machine.

Not me. I don't want anything remotely associated with the government managing my healthcare.

[kres24GT]

Um, wake up & get up to speed.

That is one of the common proposals in getting everyone 'insured'.

That is what Romney did in Massachusetts.

This is one of the things the Medical Mafia is hoping for.

Enslaving you to their gross, criminal profit machine.


Big Government solutions always lead to slavery. That is why it is scary everyone is proposing forcing people to have insurance. The method id irrelevant.

[disrupter]

If we are being honest, most likely at some point most of us will need medical attention.
If we don't just want to irresponsibly unload the cost of that by last ditch emergency room visits then out of consideration for others then we have to think about something that addresses that.

But mandates to profiteering insurers who are busier denying benefits to premium payers instead of taking reasonable care of them, is basically enslavement to them & their profit margins.

If there is some national, public, non-profit plan or option, it would make sense for people to be made aware of when they are expending money so they will make efforts to be reasonable & judicious in how they utilize it or not.

[kres24GT]

If we are being honest, most likely at some point most of us will need medical attention.
If we don't just want to irresponsibly unload the cost of that by last ditch emergency room visits then out of consideration for others then we have to think about something that addresses that.

But mandates to profiteering insurers who are busier denying benefits to premium payers instead of taking reasonable care of them, is basically enslavement to them & their profit margins.

If there is some national, public, non-profit plan or option, it would make sense for people to be made aware of when they are expending money so they will make efforts to be reasonable & judicious in how they utilize it or not.


Give doctors the freedom to deny care, if you can't afford care, you don't get it. I agree all of our problems are currently from government getting too involved in the health care industry, w need less government, more freedom. If I need a 5 million dollar surgery to have a 35% chance to live for another 6 months, it should be up to me and my abilities if that is worth it, it should come from money politicians stole, put into a kitty, and raided for vote buying programs, and it certainly shouldn't be up to corrupt government bureaucrats on whether or not the rest of the country is goign to be forced to pay for it.

Less government, more freedom. Perfect system, of course not, but freedom is worth dying for.

[disrupter]

Your view has legitimacy,

but currently it is illegal for emergency rooms to deny treatment.

[foxbaron]

Government run medical care?

Just go to any VA hospital and see how well that works.

That is what is in store for us.

[disrupter]

Aren't VA hospitals where presidents & senators go?

It isn't where you go, it is the treatment you get there that matters.

[disrupter]

Of course a bigger difference is the treatment you give yourself so you avoid having to go to a hospital in half the cases.

[MintJulep]

Aren't VA hospitals where presidents & senators go?

It isn't where you go, it is the treatment you get there that matters.God, you're dumb.

[The Professor]

not slavery

indenturement

LOLOLOL!!!

[disrupter]

Indenturement implies servitude by choice &/or agreement.

Slavery is forced servitude.

Just in case you were unclear in your 'comprehension'. :D

[The Professor]

choice

LOLOLOL!!!

[disrupter]

Some people agreed to work for someone for 'x' number of years or dollars to pay their passage to the territory that subsequently became our fair nation.

It is not uncommon for these relationships to become abusive or out & out fraudulent in modern human trafficking.

But many people willingly work for the best interests of their families. This would be willing servitude. Or some more formal arrangement such as, "He will pay your way to college if you work for him for 3 years."

The ROTC sometimes uses this principle. They send you to college & in return you serve as a military officer for some number of years.

I'm not sure of the legal bindings. I bet if you don't serve your term they expect you to repay them for the education costs.

[The Professor]

Indenturement implies servitude by choice &/or agreement.

Slavery is forced servitude.

Just in case you were unclear in your 'comprehension'. :D

smiley icon

genocide

LOLOL!

[disrupter]

are you always incoherent or is that just today?

[kres24GT]

Your view has legitimacy,

but currently it is illegal for emergency rooms to deny treatment.


And it is ridiculous that we force people to perform services, beyond ridiculous.

[foxbaron]

Aren't VA hospitals where presidents & senators go?

It isn't where you go, it is the treatment you get there that matters.


No President's and Senators go to places like Bethesda Naval Hospital, a real hospital.

VA Hospitals are total crap if you have a serious situation. They are teaching hospitals, half the time the people that treat you have a difficulty with the English language.

Doctors prescribe Rx for patients and the VA refuses to give the vet the medication the doc ordered because the VA refuses to pay for that particular drug. A VA Pharmacist will then change the meds without the doctor even knowing.

Older vets, war time injury? Good luck getting the appropriate medical care.

Heart problem, they tell a guys wife to bring him in after the weekend cause they don't have any doctors available to treat heart patient. Forunately for him she took him to civilian hospital emergency room. Within 15 minutes of admission he underwent 5 by pass surgery.

Yeah VA is real good. NOT

[disrupter]

The President & Senators get GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE.

I want some of that.

[kres24GT]

The President & Senators get GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE.

I want some of that.


My military care was terrible. I had to limp with a bad knee for 3 years before I got private insurance that would give me the MRI and proper diagnosis I needed. I pray that never comes back. Of course to assume all Americans would get care as good as the President and Congress is insane, that level of care could never be performed for 300 million Americans without massive deficits or extreme fascism.

[MintJulep]

The President & Senators get GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE.

I want some of that.The President and Senators are covered by a BlueCross BlueShield Federal Employee Program as they are employees of the government. It is still traditional insurance and they can choose their doctors and level of care. They are not limited to certain doctors nor do they have to go to the VA. They have the same exact insurance as a postal carrier has. It is not "government run healthcare" like the single payer shithole you advocate.

[disrupter]

It is PRIVATE INSURERS who LIMIT the Doctors & Hospitals you can access.

Single Payer GIVES you CHOICE.

[bairdi]

The President and Senators are covered by a BlueCross BlueShield Federal Employee Program as they are employees of the government. It is still traditional insurance and they can choose their doctors and level of care. They are not limited to certain doctors nor do they have to go to the VA. They have the same exact insurance as a postal carrier has. It is not "government run healthcare" like the single payer shithole you advocate.
Nobody is advocating for "government run healthcare." I love how you continually make shit up as you go along. You never seem to let facts stand in the way of a good argument, do you?

[MintJulep]

It is PRIVATE INSURERS who LIMIT the Doctors & Hospitals you can access.

Single Payer GIVES you CHOICE.Single payer gives anything but choice. It will result in healthcare rationing and poor quality.

[MintJulep]

Nobody is advocating for "government run healthcare." I love how you continually make shit up as you go along. You never seem to let facts stand in the way of a good argument, do you?That will be the end result with a "gubmint option". The private insurers will lose 70-80% of their business and go under. That is the plan. Obama's plan is not America's plan.

[disrupter]

60 plus percent of Americans support Single Payer,

That is AMERICA's plan/desire,

But it is NOT the plan of the entrenched, murderous, criminal elites.

[bairdi]

That will be the end result with a "gubmint option". The private insurers will lose 70-80% of their business and go under. That is the plan. Obama's plan is not America's plan.
Oh I get it. That is the double dog top secret plan that nobody talks about but which have a vast amount of inside information. Funny, to me it sounded like a false argument from the insurance industry.

[disrupter]

The insurance industry would lie?

I'm shocked.

They do have the MOST successful lobby in all of Washington DC.

But those lobbyists are such 'honest' informative people.

Telling the congress how it should enslave Americans to their murdering profit agenda, "for their own 'good'".

[MintJulep]

Oh I get it. That is the double dog top secret plan that nobody talks about but which have a vast amount of inside information. Funny, to me it sounded like a false argument from the insurance industry.No, it's common sense to those who don't imbibe on the koolaid daily.

If a gubmint insurance option is offered, employers will push employees off onto it in order to save money, leaving insurance companies with less than half of their current clientele. What do you think happens when there are more claims to pay than premiums coming in?

I mean, really, this is basic stuff........

[disrupter]

Why would employers push employees off their provided plans?

BECAUSE THE INSURANCE, DRUG & HOSPITAL COMPANIES KEEP ESCALATING COSTS!

The 'Great' Private system is BANKRUPTING America, including small businesses & large.

[bairdi]

No, it's common sense to those who don't imbibe on the koolaid daily.

If a gubmint insurance option is offered, employers will push employees off onto it in order to save money, leaving insurance companies with less than half of their current clientele. What do you think happens when there are more claims to pay than premiums coming in?

I mean, really, this is basic stuff........
Your "common sense" makes no sense to me. I have no idea what you are trying to say with that statement of yours. Are you saying it's a bad thing to have small businesses cut costs? Are you saying that if there are more claims to pay than premiums coming in today, that the results would be different than they would be if there was another option? Are you saying that it's a bad thing to offer competition to insurance companies? It looks to me like you are saying that insurance companies are not run real well if they stand to lose half their current clientele. Are you saying that the current clientele is dissatisfied?

[MintJulep]

Why would employers push employees off their provided plans?

BECAUSE THE INSURANCE, DRUG & HOSPITAL COMPANIES KEEP ESCALATING COSTS!

The 'Great' Private system is BANKRUPTING America, including small businesses & large.You're a clueless idiot. The AMA is against this along with many blue-dog --read that, not socialist-- dems. You don't understand how anything works, you just keep repeating what your moonbat mouthpieces and your lying teleprompter tell you to say. You are a waste of time.

[bluejunk44]

Given republican history on health care, I can't say I trust them very much.

I refuse to believe we can't take a system of universal health care that so many other countries use and improve upon it. They can manage to do as well as they do, yet we can't do better? I don't think so.

[kres24GT]

60 plus percent of Americans support Single Payer,

That is AMERICA's plan/desire,

But it is NOT the plan of the entrenched, murderous, criminal elites.


Back to majority rules, scary. 60% of Americans could not accurately explain single payer so your point is as moot as it is frightening. If you think Americans have a right to health care, socialize it, use government employees. Otherwise remove government from the equation. It is because of government and regulation we are in the crappy system we have now. You are free to have no health insurance, get your own, or get it through your employer (perhaps). You are also free to get with these 60% of Americans and start your own plan together minus the insurance companies, and you don't need government to do it.

You want to force everyone who doesn't think like you to subscribe to your plan, that is fascism.

[disrupter]

The AMA objected to HMOs too.

So LadyLackintellect7, you & the moonbat AMA can go fly a key strung kite in a thunderstorm.

[MintJulep]

Are you saying it's a bad thing to have small businesses cut costs? Ummm, no.

Are you saying that if there are more claims to pay than premiums coming in today, that the results would be different than they would be if there was another option?I am saying when everyone is forced to use the gubmint option, the insurance companies will go out of business. Voila! Enter the Obamahitler gubmint takeover.

Are you saying that it's a bad thing to offer competition to insurance companies?The government should not compete in the private sector. The government does not create wealth. It simply shuffles around taxpayer mony.

It looks to me like you are saying that insurance companies are not run real well if they stand to lose half their current clientele. Are you saying that the current clientele is dissatisfied?You are as clueless as disrupter. Keep supporting your fascist dear Leader and his daily lies. The only thing that stands in the way of him taking over the healthcare industry are the insurance companies. In order to implement a socialized system, they have to be put out of business and zen your dear Fuhrer will control the auto, banking and healthcare industry -- and you are too clueless to see it. Honestly, I've never hated a President in my entire life, but I can say I hate this retarded, fascist piece of shit.

[MintJulep]

The AMA objected to HMOs too.

So LadyLackintellect7, you & the moonbat AMA can go fly a key strung kite in a thunderstorm.HMOs suck. Government intervention is why we have the problems we have now.

[kres24GT]

Given republican history on health care, I can't say I trust them very much.

I refuse to believe we can't take a system of universal health care that so many other countries use and improve upon it. They can manage to do as well as they do, yet we can't do better? I don't think so.


What about our corrupt, inefficient, pandering, crooked government suggest this. This is sheepdom plain and simple. Their is 0 track record to think our government could improve on a system this large. All of the large government programs are failures and on the verge of being fiscally insolvent.

Education, an absolute failure, the laughing stick of the rest of the world and constantly under funded.

Social Security, raided by politicians to pay for vote buying programs, will soon be insolvent.

Medicare, already a single payer system, see Social security, soon to be out of money as well.

Only a complete idiot or massively delusional sheep could look at our government and say what you just said.

[disrupter]

LadyLacksIntellect7, Just give people the OPTION of a government plan.

As the wasteful greed of the private 'insurers' is exposed they will collapse because most of them deserve to.

People will vote with their feet & wallets,

& their wallets & the wallet of America will be all the healthier for it.

[bluejunk44]

What about our corrupt, inefficient, pandering, crooked government suggest this. This is sheepdom plain and simple. Their is 0 track record to think our government could improve on a system this large. All of the large government programs are failures and on the verge of being fiscally insolvent.

Education, an absolute failure, the laughing stick of the rest of the world and constantly under funded.

Social Security, raided by politicians to pay for vote buying programs, will soon be insolvent.

Medicare, already a single payer system, see Social security, soon to be out of money as well.

Only a complete idiot or massively delusional sheep could look at our government and say what you just said.

Right, because up until now our health care has been functioning just like it does in other universal health care countries, so medicare is a valid comparison to true single payer. Especially considering how we allow our insurance companies to ravage the rears of our citizens.

But i'm glad you want the USA to continue having a crappy health care system.

I'll await the revealing of the right's master plan to make USA health care more awesomer. I'm sure they'll put forth a bill any time now and it will be so great that everyone will jump on board.


And please, stop this "government will screw it up" bull crap. I don't see you calling for the end of water plants, sewage, fire departments, police, infrastructure maintenance, etc....the list goes on and on. Since government is so terrible at doing everything, let's just take the military away from them too and have 100% private armies under the command of civilians.

Want the army to protect your ass from an invasion? Sorry, gotta provide proof of invasion insurance first. Stray bullets covered, but bomb protection isn't on the standard plan.

[MintJulep]

Right, because up until now our health care has been functioning just like it does in other universal health care countries, so medicare is a valid comparison to true single payer.

But i'm glad you want the USA to continue having a crappy health care system.

I'll await the revealing of the right's master plan to make USA health care more awesomer.It functions poorly in other countries. In Canada, physicians have been barred from private practice, there are long waiting periods to see specialists/get testing and very few people have regular GPs. Canada has a population equivalent to California, a state-run system here in the US.

There is no proportional model to compare to the US. You would need a socialized system covering every nation in the EU to do this.

[disrupter]

It may not be perfect but at least it is rational & fair.

Then if rich people want to squander money to be ripped off by 'private' insurers they are free [& very expensive] to do so.

[kres24GT]

It may not be perfect but at least it is rational & fair.

Then if rich people want to squander money to be ripped off by 'private' insurers they are free [& very expensive] to do so.


So people will be free to opt out of your system as well?

[bluejunk44]

It functions poorly in other countries. In Canada, physicians have been barred from private practice, there are long waiting periods to see specialists/get testing and very few people have regular GPs. Canada has a population equivalent to California, a state-run system here in the US.

There is no proportional model to compare to the US. You would need a socialized system covering every nation in the EU to do this.

In other words you believe the USA is incapable of forming a universal health care system that's superior to everyone else.

What's your solution?

[disrupter]

I am not advocating for mandates, but i will bet you $50.00 that is what is coming.

Nothing like those high* & mighty Washingtonites to ram more of their bullshit down other people's throats.

*high includes references to narcotics, legal & otherwise, including GOP fantasy self-righteousness

[Cat slave]

Government run medical care?

Just go to any VA hospital and see how well that works.

That is what is in store for us.

But youd better not get a colonoscopy! You could get a gift that keeps on
giving ie HIV and or Hepatitis. Such a shining example of government...employees who dont give a shit just draw their pay and no
quality control where sanitation is concerned.

[Cat slave]

What about our corrupt, inefficient, pandering, crooked government suggest this. This is sheepdom plain and simple. Their is 0 track record to think our government could improve on a system this large. All of the large government programs are failures and on the verge of being fiscally insolvent.

Education, an absolute failure, the laughing stick of the rest of the world and constantly under funded.

Social Security, raided by politicians to pay for vote buying programs, will soon be insolvent.

Medicare, already a single payer system, see Social security, soon to be out of money as well.

Only a complete idiot or massively delusional sheep could look at our government and say what you just said.


Well.........:disbelief:

[Cat slave]

HMOs suck. Government intervention is why we have the problems we have now.

Frivolous law suits and lack of tort reform specifically.

[kres24GT]

Right, because up until now our health care has been functioning just like it does in other universal health care countries, so medicare is a valid comparison to true single payer. Especially considering how we allow our insurance companies to ravage the rears of our citizens.

But i'm glad you want the USA to continue having a crappy health care system.

I'll await the revealing of the right's master plan to make USA health care more awesomer. I'm sure they'll put forth a bill any time now and it will be so great that everyone will jump on board.


And please, stop this "government will screw it up" bull crap. I don't see you calling for the end of water plants, sewage, fire departments, police, infrastructure maintenance, etc....the list goes on and on. Since government is so terrible at doing everything, let's just take the military away from them too and have 100% private armies under the command of civilians.

Want the army to protect your ass from an invasion? Sorry, gotta provide proof of invasion insurance first. Stray bullets covered, but bomb protection isn't on the standard plan.


You don't read many of my posts. I am for privatizing anything and everything that can be feasibly done. There are arguments to be made for UHC, your comments were insane however. There is "no reason to think we can't make it better"? Of course there is, it was stupid for you to say this.

[bluejunk44]

then you have trouble dealing with reality

if what you say was true we wouldn't have a health care problem because the private sector has already had their hands in it for decades. they didn't do such a great job for the people, only their own bank accounts.

this is the hilarious part of the right's stance on health care. they seem to support the notion that private business is the best way to go and that any government intervention would ruin things. yet, private business has had all the time in the world to make USA health care the best (for all citizens, not just some) in the world. they failed.

if they had succeeded then we wouldn't have tens of millions without insurance and millions with insurance wouldn't constantly be getting screwed or wallet drained.

[ROdger Right]

Someone will always be getting screwed no matter how much you depend on your gov, it is important for you to understand this concept because there is nothing that anyone can do about it. We can always try of course but that will remain fact forever.

[mwillman]

Someone will always be getting screwed no matter how much you depend on your gov, it is important for you to understand this concept because there is nothing that anyone can do about it. We can always try of course but that will remain fact forever.


I disagree, people in almost every industrialized nation on earth fell pretty good about their medical systems. Of course the one percenters will always have better treatment but when no one has to worry that they will lose everything if they get sick, they tend to feel safer.

They live longer healthier lives and they save their private sector a huge expense that gives them a competitive advantage in the global market.
Between our horrible medical system and are way over sized military we are spending as much as the rest of the world put together and for what. So that Iraq can be free to sell us the Oil the Texas robber barons so badly crave.

The only reason someone would believe that screwing each other is always going to happen is becuase they are always going to do it.

Even if we can't stop all people from getting screwed doesn't mean we should just except it.

[disrupter]

CatSlave says our US soldiers have HIV?

[kres24GT]

then you have trouble dealing with reality

if what you say was true we wouldn't have a health care problem because the private sector has already had their hands in it for decades. they didn't do such a great job for the people, only their own bank accounts.

this is the hilarious part of the right's stance on health care. they seem to support the notion that private business is the best way to go and that any government intervention would ruin things. yet, private business has had all the time in the world to make USA health care the best (for all citizens, not just some) in the world. they failed.

if they had succeeded then we wouldn't have tens of millions without insurance and millions with insurance wouldn't constantly be getting screwed or wallet drained.

Wow, you may be the dumbest poster here, and that say a lot.

Unless you force people to have insurance, their will always be uninsured, so right there you are an idiot.

Also we do not have a private system, we have a system where the insurance and drug companies are in bed with government to maximize their profits and corrupt the system, so again, you are an idiot.

No one can make a system where everyone gets the best care available, that simply is not possible, not only is it not financially or logistically feasible, it is also physically impossible. Wow, another statement by you to look stupid.


No one said the private sector was the end all be all solution that makes great health care for everyone, so again, you are an idiot.


Back to the original point. You claimed that there is "no reason to think the US can't improve on" other government run systems. There are tons of reasons to think that. So yes, you are an idiot.

[bluejunk44]

Wow, you may be the dumbest poster here, and that say a lot.

Unless you force people to have insurance, their will always be uninsured, so right there you are an idiot.

Also we do not have a private system, we have a system where the insurance and drug companies are in bed with government to maximize their profits and corrupt the system, so again, you are an idiot.

No one can make a system where everyone gets the best care available, that simply is not possible, not only is it not financially or logistically feasible, it is also physically impossible. Wow, another statement by you to look stupid.


No one said the private sector was the end all be all solution that makes great health care for everyone, so again, you are an idiot.


Back to the original point. You claimed that there is "no reason to think the US can't improve on" other government run systems. There are tons of reasons to think that. So yes, you are an idiot.


this type of attitude never got us anywhere

of course we can eventually have a system that covers everyone

i believe in my country's ability to get it done

it's not gonna be easy. the first step is making health care more about helping people and less about 7-10 figure profits.

[kres24GT]

this type of attitude never got us anywhere

of course we can eventually have a system that covers everyone

i believe in my country's ability to get it done

it's not gonna be easy. the first step is making health care more about helping people and less about 7-10 figure profits.


Like I said, one of the dumbest posters here. You didn't cover one point i made.

You believe in it fine, again does not change the fact that what you said was beyond moronic when you claimed "no reason to think".

Fascism is alive and well in you. Don't worry, fascist like yourself are the majority, you will most likely get your way.