GREAT VIDEO...GOOD TUNE

[stefan segal]

I was really touched by this video/song. To see why I find it so on point, be sure to read and listen to the words below each scene change. If you do so, you will understand the the repugs party from where its heart ought to be.

Stefan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOk6uSQ2O2w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcrooksandliars%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

[Mr. Blue]

First scene talks about same sex marriage. What's Obama's position on that? It was Obama's voice that they used in the robocalls that helped get Prop 8 Passed...it was the black community voting against it that got Prop 8 in...so, maybe you need to stand in judgment of Obama as well on this topic?

Arlen Specter switched parties because of self preservation, nothing more, nothing less. He's not switching sides because of ideology.

Mark Foley you have to talk about Barney Frank's scandal don't you?

How appropriate that they include Nancy Pelosi in the background of when Bush is speaking, they unintentionally make the association that the Democrats let Bush have free reign for 8 years.

So maybe, just maybe, both parties are to blame for a lot of what we're in at the moment, and until the political zombies wake up, nothing is going to change.

[stefan segal]

First scene talks about same sex marriage. What's Obama's position on that? It was Obama's voice that they used in the robocalls that helped get Prop 8 Passed...it was the black community voting against it that got Prop 8 in...so, maybe you need to stand in judgment of Obama as well on this topic?

Arlen Specter switched parties because of self preservation, nothing more, nothing less. He's not switching sides because of ideology.

Mark Foley you have to talk about Barney Frank's scandal don't you?

How appropriate that they include Nancy Pelosi in the background of when Bush is speaking, they unintentionally make the association that the Democrats let Bush have free reign for 8 years.

So maybe, just maybe, both parties are to blame for a lot of what we're in at the moment, and until the political zombies wake up, nothing is going to change.

Mr.Blue...Your first question plays on the double role of Obama the family man, against Obama the President. As president, Obama follows the tenets of the Constitution, which demand equality under the law for all citizens. My personal response to repugs refusing these rights to our citizens, is that they are bottom feeding alarmists...but that doesn't hold any surprise to anyone over the age of ten.

As far as specter goes, I couldn't have thought of a better way for that snake to be retired. I don't think he can win a primary here in PA., and the disruption he added to the party of "NO" couldn't be bought.

I don't know of any Barney Frank scandal...Franl never made a secret of his sexual choice...it simply has no bearing on his excellent contribution toward good governance. I also don't know anything about mark foley other than his repug limitations.

I can't say, as you can't say, what political horsetrading and political expediencies were in place at the time...we can only count votes after the fact. I am puzzled and concerned that in the past, repugs had the ability to intimadate dems, and both repugs and dems are twisted by the amount of money they require to become re-elected. That money comes from lobbyists, and it is always a 'something for something'..."gift".

But now you too can lift your head up high, as Obama is specifically shutting down such targeting of our government representives by lobbyists.

II believe that you will witness a new day in the dem government...great things are happening and led by Obama and his marching band of dedicated experts.

I appreciate your response...it was thoughtful and on point...although I don't argree with much of it.

Stefan

[Mr. Blue]

Generally I don't care much about gay marriage one way or another. That lack of interest generally leads me to the point of saying let them get married if they want...they have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us, lol.

With that said though, Obama is on record with his definition of marriage, and whether people want to candy coat it and wrap it in a pretty wrapper, it's still out there, and it's still simpatico with what a lot of Republicans are spouting on the subject. I don't believe he'll take any stand on the issue and let the states decide where to take the issue of gay marriage. So I take his stance on it as a politically safe one that helped Prop 8 get passed, but was a politically sound decision to help him win an election.

Also Kerry was against same sex marriage, but for civil unions. Hillary Clinton also opposes same sex marriage, but supports civil unions. So, on this first issue, I think you'll be hard pressed to just point the finger at Republicans on the topic.

Arlen Specter to me illustrates what's fundamentally wrong with our political system. We don't have people willing to stand by convictions, instead they choose this path of whatever it takes to keep them in Washington. That to me is a dangerous type person, because they care more about themselves than the greater good.

Arlen Specter is 79 years old? He's been Washington for quite awhile. It's time we remove lifelong politicians. No one was ever meant to be a lifelong politician yet how many members of the Senate have served 20, 30, 40 years? A politician isn't a permanent job, it should never be thought of in that way, yet it is the Washington culture. When you look at people like Robert Byrd, 50 years as a senator? Ted Kennedy, 46 years as a Senator? Ted Stevens was 40 years and we all know about him.

When you think about these career politicians, they've been in Washington before we even went to the moon. Now, do they really have a grasp on writing legislation that would cover internet commerce? Net neutrality? Etc, etc, etc. I'm sorry but there comes a point where fresh blood needs to be put into the system and currently we have a system that encourages stagnation.

Frank and Foley, I'm willing to just give a pass on unless people really want to discuss it further. I think both had issues, Foley more of a hypocrite in the process for sure, but there's a certain similarity there.

As for the Bush years and the Democrats...I do have issues with the democratic leadership getting a completely free pass on things that happened in Bush's term. We can look at the votes, we can look at the memos, and we can draw conclusions from it.

My conclusion comes to the fact that our system of government is broken, the two parties are in bed with each other, with lobbyists, with corporate America and we'll never see true change because our politicians are more or less bought by the powers that be. You may have a different opinion on it, but I saw a number of moments when the Dems could have stood up and stopped a number of things from happening, and they opted not to.

As for Obama, you have more faith than I do on him, we'll just respectfully disagree on that front. Once his first term is over we'll have another talk because he'll have 4 years of policy to either praise or complain about.

So good song, always like Desperado, one girlfriend used to love me singing it to her, lol, but I think the video is one sided and ignores the democrats entirely. No one in Washington is guilt free, unless they just arrived there, and with all the career politicians, that's not that many :D

[stefan segal]

Generally I don't care much about gay marriage one way or another. That lack of interest generally leads me to the point of saying let them get married if they want...they have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us, lol.

With that said though, Obama is on record with his definition of marriage, and whether people want to candy coat it and wrap it in a pretty wrapper, it's still out there, and it's still simpatico with what a lot of Republicans are spouting on the subject. I don't believe he'll take any stand on the issue and let the states decide where to take the issue of gay marriage. So I take his stance on it as a politically safe one that helped Prop 8 get passed, but was a politically sound decision to help him win an election.

Also Kerry was against same sex marriage, but for civil unions. Hillary Clinton also opposes same sex marriage, but supports civil unions. So, on this first issue, I think you'll be hard pressed to just point the finger at Republicans on the topic.

Arlen Specter to me illustrates what's fundamentally wrong with our political system. We don't have people willing to stand by convictions, instead they choose this path of whatever it takes to keep them in Washington. That to me is a dangerous type person, because they care more about themselves than the greater good.

Arlen Specter is 79 years old? He's been Washington for quite awhile. It's time we remove lifelong politicians. No one was ever meant to be a lifelong politician yet how many members of the Senate have served 20, 30, 40 years? A politician isn't a permanent job, it should never be thought of in that way, yet it is the Washington culture. When you look at people like Robert Byrd, 50 years as a senator? Ted Kennedy, 46 years as a Senator? Ted Stevens was 40 years and we all know about him.

When you think about these career politicians, they've been in Washington before we even went to the moon. Now, do they really have a grasp on writing legislation that would cover internet commerce? Net neutrality? Etc, etc, etc. I'm sorry but there comes a point where fresh blood needs to be put into the system and currently we have a system that encourages stagnation.

Frank and Foley, I'm willing to just give a pass on unless people really want to discuss it further. I think both had issues, Foley more of a hypocrite in the process for sure, but there's a certain similarity there.

As for the Bush years and the Democrats...I do have issues with the democratic leadership getting a completely free pass on things that happened in Bush's term. We can look at the votes, we can look at the memos, and we can draw conclusions from it.

My conclusion comes to the fact that our system of government is broken, the two parties are in bed with each other, with lobbyists, with corporate America and we'll never see true change because our politicians are more or less bought by the powers that be. You may have a different opinion on it, but I saw a number of moments when the Dems could have stood up and stopped a number of things from happening, and they opted not to.

As for Obama, you have more faith than I do on him, we'll just respectfully disagree on that front. Once his first term is over we'll have another talk because he'll have 4 years of policy to either praise or complain about.

So good song, always like Desperado, one girlfriend used to love me singing it to her, lol, but I think the video is one sided and ignores the democrats entirely. No one in Washington is guilt free, unless they just arrived there, and with all the career politicians, that's not that many :D

Mr. Blue...I have a more upbeat future than you do...obviously. If a butch clone...say mccain were elected, I would agree with you on most all your points, but being as old as I am, I've seen great shifts in government...mostly toward the negative side with all the repugs, but FDR, John Kennedy, Bill Clinton, all made positive ground swell shifts. I see the signs of such a shifti in our politics and pride happening now, but on a greater scale.

You don't note or score these elements as highly as do I, but I'll take you up on your four year withholding of judgement and raise you another four. I believe you will have good marks for Obama & co.

Nice post...

Stefan

[Mr, gone]

Amazing!!! This has been the first 'civilized' and respectful debate within this forum I have come across in quite some time. IMO this demonstrates what transpires, when individuals who possess above average logic and intellect converse on relevent subject matter.

Cudos to Mr. Blue and Stefan...:D