When and why I started to have disdain for the G.O.P.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

I have never really like or gotten the concept of conservative politics, never been my cup of tea or been anywhere close to all the principles and beliefs I hold dear but never really had major issues until after sept 11 2001. What turned my stomach at that point was the juvenile childish nature things took...see we were going to war with Iraq in 2003 and some countries including France decided they were not going to support us or the reasons behind the war(which they have a fundamental right as humans to do) so what do the high and mighty "Patriots " of the GOP do? begin acting like 2 year olds mad because they were not getting what they wanted..."BOO WHO..france doesnt support the war so we are gonna make fun of them at every turn" and thus started the idiocy of changing the name of french fries to "Freedom fries" and french toast to "Liberty Toast" All I could say was WOW, is this what we have become?! and to me it seems 8 years later we still have not grown the hell up, we lump all muslims in the category of terrorists, feel it ok to torture even innocent people..seeing as the US offered thousands of dollars in bounty for "terrorists" which drug and crime lords in those countries salivated over and anyone that does not think like so called "patriotic" conservative citizens are deemed anti americans terrorist lovers. my final question is when will this all stop? we used to be a nation of diverse people that were allowed to have differing opinions and could question the government without having our patriotism and love of our country questioned.

[The_Limit]

Total nonsense.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

how so is it nonsense?

[Moby]

I think you're confusing today's GOP with conservative ideas.

Conservative politics were very different in the last generation. There was a desire to keep spending and government small. There was a desire to leave other countries alone. Nothing in the message required media networks with the sole purpose of supporting the cause as it was mostly common sense.

Many people tend to agree that Conservative politics have nothing to do with today's GOP.

Ron Paul was the closest thing running to a conservative and he was attacked by many GOP supporters. Granted, I don't agree with his gold standard ideas but he made sense on a lot of issues. They had little to do with more government control, hate and spending so there wasn't much appeal to the billionaires.

[Mr. Blue]

Umm, you don't have a good grasp of history really...because your disdain for the G.O.P should be extended to all things political and then you branch it out to something even more basic and that's the human condition.

We've always had an "Us vs. Them" mentality. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it is just what it is, and the thing that I find most troubling is someone like you making it like this is a new invention of the GOP, nope, this has been around for quite awhile and yes, *gasp* even Democrats have engaged in this behavior during times.

Take WWII, it was not a good time to be a Japanese American in the U.S., it was not a good time to be of German decent and be in the U.S., and we treated American citizens as if they were public enemy #1 and all they did was be from a certain genetic background. Pssst, FDR was a Democrat.

Take a look at the cold war, we basically got into an ideological struggle over what? A political system? Communism wasn't right for the world? Those sneaky Reds, and if you don't think the Dems and Reps fed that beast for all it's worth?

You want to find a reason to hate the GOP, but I want you to open up your mind a little and see that what you criticized has been happening all along, regardless of party affiliation, no one will give up the power of the "us vs. them" thought.

Now, there is one issue I will take, I personally am tired of the U.S. getting involved in other countries problems. I take the Ron Paul stance on that as well and think we should dramatically scale back our involvement in the world. If the U.S. backs out, Europe will have to deal with a lot of issues that they've had the luxury of just letting the 300lb Gorilla take care of and it would be interesting to see how they would have to change their policies and stances based on that new dynamic.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Good points made by both sir moby and mr. blue. I never ever stated I was perfect and had knowledge of everything so when I do post stuff like this I do welcome critiques and anything anyone can add. Most all of what I speak comes from the heart and some of my lack of knowledge does show, I did a political talk radio show for 2 years in college and my co host had a bit more knowledge than I to make up for my gaps.

[Mr. Blue]

I just start at a basic common denominator that all people when they're born are pretty much the same. It's the institutions that create most of the unnatural divides and almost all institutions are guilty of this.

I'll give a quick example, I'm a New Yorker, I hardly ever watch baseball now, but when I was growing up I'd go to some Yankees games, and I sometimes wear a baseball cap. Yes, sometimes a Yankees hat, sometimes an LA Dodgers hat, but both because they were on sale and I needed a baseball hat when I mowed the lawn in the summer.

Two years ago someone drives by as I'm mowing the lawn and they yell, "You SUCK and your Team SUCKS" and I just was like...What? Huh? I didn't even think about the fact I was wearing a Yankees hat, and then I realized what this guy was on about. Mets Fan? Boston Fan? Who knows.

Now, if people can feel that passionately about baseball, a game, something people should just enjoy...it shows there's that innate quality in humans to congregate in little groups so they feel comfortable with their existence and at the same time hate or at least be irritated at other people.

Once you start examining it, you find how many places you do it yourself, and you go...oops, lol, I'm a herd animal. I'm guilty of it at times and I actively try to be aware of such things...but even people aware of it, gets sucked into it, because it's just something we seem to need.

[doctordog]

I just start at a basic common denominator that all people when they're born are pretty much the same. It's the institutions that create most of the unnatural divides and almost all institutions are guilty of this.

I'll give a quick example, I'm a New Yorker, I hardly ever watch baseball now, but when I was growing up I'd go to some Yankees games, and I sometimes wear a baseball cap. Yes, sometimes a Yankees hat, sometimes an LA Dodgers hat, but both because they were on sale and I needed a baseball hat when I mowed the lawn in the summer.

Two years ago someone drives by as I'm mowing the lawn and they yell, "You SUCK and your Team SUCKS" and I just was like...What? Huh? I didn't even think about the fact I was wearing a Yankees hat, and then I realized what this guy was on about. Mets Fan? Boston Fan? Who knows.

Now, if people can feel that passionately about baseball, a game, something people should just enjoy...it shows there's that innate quality in humans to congregate in little groups so they feel comfortable with their existence and at the same time hate or at least be irritated at other people.

Once you start examining it, you find how many places you do it yourself, and you go...oops, lol, I'm a herd animal. I'm guilty of it at times and I actively try to be aware of such things...but even people aware of it, gets sucked into it, because it's just something we seem to need.

That is a great analogy Blue. I took my son to a football game once when he was 12 and we were for the visiting team, a rival fan threw beer on him going into the 3rd quarter because he was wearing a visiting team jersey. What an idiot, I was furious. I gave my kid some money and sent him to the concession stand and dealt with the infraction but I have never attended a game in that stadium since the incident.

[Mr. Blue]

That is a great analogy Blue. I took my son to a football game once when he was 12 and we were for the visiting team, a rival fan threw beer on him going into the 3rd quarter because he was wearing a visiting team jersey. What an idiot, I was furious. I gave my kid some money and sent him to the concession stand and dealt with the infraction but I have never attended a game in that stadium since the incident.

I never understood that*, but I've always followed the rule of never wearing the visiting teams jersey to a home game. Just because I don't want an incident and I know how people are, lol.



*Unless the person is wearing a Kobe Bryant Jersey and then he deserves whatever he gets (what, I admitted I'm not perfect, lol)

[doctordog]

I never understood that*, but I've always followed the rule of never wearing the visiting teams jersey to a home game. Just because I don't want an incident and I know how people are, lol.



*Unless the person is wearing a Kobe Bryant Jersey and then he deserves whatever he gets (what, I admitted I'm not perfect, lol)

I will wear the visiting teams jersey regardless. The man that spilled beer on my kid has two false teeth and I never laid a hand on him. I acted like I was going to hit him, he ws drunk, fell and caught his two top teeth on the concrete, pity, they broke like crackers over a soup bowl.:lmao2:

[bridge buff]

About 2 years ago, I finished reading the Koran. I was trying to discern if Muslims are terrorists or if it was a small group of fanatics. I learned that the Koran itself is full of hate. Anyone who follows what it teaches is capable of any crime against infidels. The Koran governs completely. Every detail of a Muslim's life is controlled by the law.

[Binky]

I will wear the visiting teams jersey regardless. The man that spilled beer on my kid has two false teeth and I never laid a hand on him. I acted like I was going to hit him, he ws drunk, fell and caught his two top teeth on the concrete, pity, they broke like crackers over a soup bowl.:lmao2:
\


Snap, snap, ouch, ouch. :lmao2:

[Mr. Blue]

I will wear the visiting teams jersey regardless. The man that spilled beer on my kid has two false teeth and I never laid a hand on him. I acted like I was going to hit him, he ws drunk, fell and caught his two top teeth on the concrete, pity, they broke like crackers over a soup bowl.:lmao2:

ahaha, gotta love drunk guys that start trouble.

[Bill Cosby]

About 2 years ago, I finished reading the Koran. I was trying to discern if Muslims are terrorists or if it was a small group of fanatics. I learned that the Koran itself is full of hate. Anyone who follows what it teaches is capable of any crime against infidels. The Koran governs completely. Every detail of a Muslim's life is controlled by the law.

So tell us what you learned reading the Koran......... Have you read the Bible to???

[doctordog]

So tell us what you learned reading the Koran......... Have you read the Bible to???

I saw the Ten Commandments on TV, does that count?:)

[Bill Cosby]

I saw the Ten Commandments on TV, does that count?:)

Sure that is almost like reading it........ :lmao2: :lmao2:

[doctordog]

Sure that is almost like reading it........ :lmao2: :lmao2:

I am not religous and hope I do not offend anyone that is.:D

[Bill Cosby]

I am not religous and hope I do not offend anyone that is.:D

LOL...... I know your not......... :)

I don't think anyone would be offened by that........

[Hog Trash]

I think you're confusing today's GOP with conservative ideas.

Conservative politics were very different in the last generation. There was a desire to keep spending and government small. There was a desire to leave other countries alone. Nothing in the message required media networks with the sole purpose of supporting the cause as it was mostly common sense.

Many people tend to agree that Conservative politics have nothing to do with today's GOP.

Ron Paul was the closest thing running to a conservative and he was attacked by many GOP supporters. Granted, I don't agree with his gold standard ideas but he made sense on a lot of issues. They had little to do with more government control, hate and spending so there wasn't much appeal to the billionaires.WTF!...Who are you and what have you done with Moby?...I'm feeling light-headed....I may faint....Somebody get ready to catch me!

Is that really you Moby?...I've never seen you make so much sense....Are you feeling alright?...Maybe you should lie down for awhile!

[The Professor]

hog, don't say "lie" to him

you'll get him started

LOLOL!

[Hog Trash]

hog, don't say "lie" to him

you'll get him started

LOLOL!Ooops! :scared1:

[Eagle1]

I think you're confusing today's GOP with conservative ideas.

Conservative politics were very different in the last generation. There was a desire to keep spending and government small. There was a desire to leave other countries alone. Nothing in the message required media networks with the sole purpose of supporting the cause as it was mostly common sense.

Many people tend to agree that Conservative politics have nothing to do with today's GOP.

Ron Paul was the closest thing running to a conservative and he was attacked by many GOP supporters. Granted, I don't agree with his gold standard ideas but he made sense on a lot of issues. They had little to do with more government control, hate and spending so there wasn't much appeal to the billionaires.

Great post!

[bridge buff]

Yes I read the Bible daily. I've read it through twice. Many of our Biblical characters are also in the Koran. Abraham is one of the most important prophets. Their God, of course is Allah. Mohammad in later days is a central figure. He is totally flawed but a hero to Islam. I managed to read it all. Took 18 months. It was very difficult and made me realize that we have a huge problem if we try to treat Muslims as we would like to be treated. We need to understand the threat they pose to the Infidels--that's us

[Bill Cosby]

Yes I read the Bible daily. I've read it through twice. Many of our Biblical characters are also in the Koran. Abraham is one of the most important prophets. Their God, of course is Allah. Mohammad in later days is a central figure. He is totally flawed but a hero to Islam. I managed to read it all. Took 18 months. It was very difficult and made me realize that we have a huge problem if we try to treat Muslims as we would like to be treated. We need to understand the threat they pose to the Infidels--that's us

Well if that is true you betttered me. I was not able to finish it. I read the whole book of Morman which is a hellaVa' lot more boring but I knew better by then I guess.....

It is good to hear the opinions of folks that have actually read it..... I hope to read more of your posts on it...............

:thumbsup:

[notThe1]

Me, I would say when I couldnt tell the two parties apart.

[Bill Cosby]

Me, I would say when I couldnt tell the two parties apart.

Come on the good guys were one color tie & the bad ones another... WHat more you want??? :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Two finger of the same hand............... 8y06NSBBRtY

[Richard Poor]

I have never really like or gotten the concept of conservative politics, never been my cup of tea or been anywhere close to all the principles and beliefs I hold dear but never really had major issues until after sept 11 2001. What turned my stomach at that point was the juvenile childish nature things took...see we were going to war with Iraq in 2003 and some countries including France decided they were not going to support us or the reasons behind the war(which they have a fundamental right as humans to do) so what do the high and mighty "Patriots " of the GOP do? begin acting like 2 year olds mad because they were not getting what they wanted..."BOO WHO..france doesnt support the war so we are gonna make fun of them at every turn" and thus started the idiocy of changing the name of french fries to "Freedom fries" and french toast to "Liberty Toast" All I could say was WOW, is this what we have become?! and to me it seems 8 years later we still have not grown the hell up, we lump all muslims in the category of terrorists, feel it ok to torture even innocent people..seeing as the US offered thousands of dollars in bounty for "terrorists" which drug and crime lords in those countries salivated over and anyone that does not think like so called "patriotic" conservative citizens are deemed anti americans terrorist lovers. my final question is when will this all stop? we used to be a nation of diverse people that were allowed to have differing opinions and could question the government without having our patriotism and love of our country questioned.
Wow, what a bunch of partisan garbage...

Freedom fries? Freedom fries? That is what bothers you? You want to talk about acting immature and childish, why not start in your own house? How many Bush jokes have liberals passed to one another? How many times did they make infantile jokes about him, how he looked, or how he spoke, on national TV? How many times have liberals just assigned blame on the Bush administration instead of accepting responsibility? :banghead:

Please spare me you self-righteous and infantile whining about Freedom Fries... because it seems you have omitted certain facts in your diatribe or suffer from selective memory; Patriotic Americans did not get mad at Jacques Chirac simply for not wanting to support us in our efforts against terrorism - rather, honest Americans became enraged when Jacques Chirac attacked, seemingly at every turn, America's efforts after 9/11 and his constant blame-America-first attitude [this as it happens is also the liberal cry in America, so it is not surprising that you found no fault with it]. Jacques Chirac's attitude toward America called for a reciprocal attitude...

By the way, do not think for a moment that Jacques Chirac would blame France first, if Paris were attacked instead of New York - make no mistake, had that happened, he would have asked for American help against the terrorists by any means necessary. Moreover, many Americans have bled on the beaches of France as recently as WWII for her freedom; and to have that ally not only not help, but criticize a nation that had just been ruthlessly attacked was too much for many honest and patriotic Americans to bear.

By the way, no true conservative "lumps" all Muslims as terrorists or supports the "torture" of innocent people... stop drinking the kool-aid. :disbelief: There is nothing wrong with having honest questions, but there is something wrong with purporting dishonesty as patriotic dissent.

[Bill Cosby]

but criticize a nation that had just been ruthlessly attacked was too much for many honest and patriotic Americans to bear.
.

So because we helped them out they were duty bound to blindly support our every wish??? To join the folly in ME & central asia........ They were right to refuZe........... IMO!!!!!!!!!

[Richard Poor]

So because we helped them out they were duty bound to blindly support our every wish??? To join the folly in ME & central asia........ They were right to refuZe........... IMO!!!!!!!!!
Hmm, this seems to be an unfortunate pattern amongst too many liberals... they argue against irrelevant points that were already addressed. :banghead:

Here it is again:



Patriotic Americans did not get mad at Jacques Chirac simply for not wanting to support us in our efforts against terrorism - rather, honest Americans became enraged when Jacques Chirac attacked, seemingly at every turn, America's efforts after 9/11 and his constant blame-America-first attitude [this as it happens is also the liberal cry in America, so it is not surprising that you found no fault with it]. Jacques Chirac's attitude toward America called for a reciprocal attitude...

[Bill Cosby]

Hmm, this seems to be an unfortunate pattern amongst too many liberals... they argue against irrelevant points that were already addressed. :banghead:

Here it is again:

It was the point..........

The French were not happy about going to war & torturing.. Those terrible ppl............:banghead: :banghead: :lmao2:

[Black Widow]

Ahhahaha

the french wouldn't back us up...


ahahahahha!


The only thing they know how to back up is their tanks to go into reverse when they RETREAT! :lmao2:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh LLD that is so funny...

French wouldn't back us up... :lmao2: I gotta remember that one!

[mwillman]

If it weren't for the French there would be no United States Of America.

[The Professor]

oh, brother

talk about ancient history

de grasse at yorktown

LOL!

really relevant

[mwillman]

Sure it is, all the French bashers should keep in mind that without the French we wouldn't have a nation.

[Richard Poor]

It was the point..........

The French were not happy about going to war & torturing.. Those terrible ppl............:banghead: :banghead: :lmao2:
Be serious:

Person A: Despite the fact that it was sunny, today he lied.
Person B: I disagree, it was sunny.

WTF - Yes, it was sunny, [and person A even addressed that] but the point was that he lied - not that it was sunny.

You keep on arguing that it was sunny, i.e. that people used the name Freedom Fries for lack of French support, when the argument was that it was not because of lack of French support [though, they did lack support], it was for their constant blame-America-first attitude after 9/11.

Here is the orignal statement yet again:



Patriotic Americans did not get mad at Jacques Chirac simply for not wanting to support us in our efforts against terrorism - rather, honest Americans became enraged when Jacques Chirac attacked, seemingly at every turn, America's efforts after 9/11 and his constant blame-America-first attitude [this as it happens is also the liberal cry in America, so it is not surprising that you found no fault with it]. Jacques Chirac's attitude toward America called for a reciprocal attitude...

[Richard Poor]

Sure it is, all the French bashers should keep in mind that without the French we wouldn't have a nation.
If you want to go that route, it should be noted that America already repaid any debt to France in WWI... and yet America still bled for French freedom during WWII when too many of their own contryman would not do the same.

In fact, since the French aided America only to weaken to their rival at the time England, it could be argued that American success over the British was payment enough.

[Black Widow]

MW just got OWNED!

:lmao2:

[mwillman]

Poor Poor republicans, cant go a day with out having to bash someone or some nation just so you feel better about yourselves.
It pathetic really.

[doctordog]

Poor Poor republicans, cant go a day with out having to bash someone or some nation just so you feel better about yourselves.
It pathetic really.

We learned it from the poor, poor Democrats from 2001-2009 but we aren't as good at the whining part yet.:D

[mwillman]

True but if you had done a good job you wouldn't have lost all power.

In fact you did so bad you lost a super majority.

[doctordog]

True but if you had done a good job you wouldn't have lost all power.

In fact you did so bad you lost a super majority.

Carter only lasted 4 years, that is all Obama will get as well.

Now that Obama has lied about the tax breaks, he is done!

[mwillman]

We will see.

Like I keep saying keep up the hope becuase thats all you have.

[Bill Cosby]

Be serious:

Person A: Despite the fact that it was sunny, today he lied.
Person B: I disagree, it was sunny.

WTF - Yes, it was sunny, [and person A even addressed that] but the point was that he lied - not that it was sunny.

You keep on arguing that it was sunny, i.e. that people used the name Freedom Fries for lack of French support, when the argument was that it was not because of lack of French support [though, they did lack support], it was for their constant blame-America-first attitude after 9/11.

Here is the orignal statement yet again:

You seem to be doing fine arguing w/ yourself for now.......... :)

Let me know when it is my turn & I will hit you up........... ;)