WHAT would YOU do?

[opinionator]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?






.

[mwillman]

Thats not a fair question.

No one would expect you to make that choice if its your family in danger.

By the way what do you do if you torture the guy then find out he knows nothing about your family?

[UABblazer]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?






.

You are comparing apples and oranges dude.
1: This is an individual incident involving two people who are not within the grasps of any kind of law at that particular moment.
2: If I do have this person in my "custody" I would hand him over to the appropriate authorities to try to find out this information.
3: The appropriate authorities, when dealing with LEGAL matters, will not waterboard or torture the individual in order to extract information. They will use the interrogation techniques they learned through experience and specialized instruction to extract the information. (All of which must be closely monitored to avoid any charges being dropped on the individual being questioned)

[UABblazer]

Thats not a fair question.

No one would expect you to make that choice if its your family in danger.

By the way what do you do if you torture the guy then find out he knows nothing about your family?

I guess it comes with the territory of torturing people to extract information. Who cares about him anyway? He was at the very least associated with the people who had the family in the first place, which means he is a low-life who didn't deserve to live in the first place.

If he doesn't die, we can throw him in a jail anyway.. and keep him there for YEARS without charging him with anything. Because that's the American way... right?

[Black Widow]

typical liberal answers...

evaluate the situation and before you know it the 4 hours is up and your family is dead. way to go.

[mwillman]

Please, do you really think its better to act without thinking.

No lets just go off half cocked and get everyone killed.

[Black Widow]

He clearly stated that the person knew where ur family was. Um yes. I would start kicking the shit out of the person for info.

[UABblazer]

typical liberal answers...

evaluate the situation and before you know it the 4 hours is up and your family is dead. way to go.

Don't evaluate the situation, beat the shit out of the guy, don't get any information, and end up in jail for torture....... wait a minute...

[Black Widow]

God I love liberals. So simple minded.

[mwillman]

Even if the guy does know if you torture him he gets away with it.

I say use your brain track down the criminals and have the police do thier job.

[mwillman]

God I love liberals. So simple minded.

I think the whole scenario is simple minded and I dont think you would be my first choice when it comes to taking care of a kidnapping.

[MintJulep]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do? .Anything and everything. There is nothing I wouldn't do.

[mwillman]

Including go to jail which is what happens when you torture people.

Thats why the police don't let you be a part of the investigation.

[Black Widow]

Anything and everything. There is nothing I wouldn't do.
I keep hearing ducks around here... don't you?

[mwillman]

Please ladies

Stop acting tough you surely are not.

[Black Widow]

...says the wannabe internet bully :lmao2:


you should be a stand up comedian. Real talk. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time!

So, thank you MW. :)

[mwillman]

Well think what you want but take this advice dont get into a real world violent situation like described and think you know what your doing becuase you watch 24.

[Black Widow]

wtf is 24?

[Black Widow]

ok had to look it up lol I don't watch sitcoms much... so once again your evaluations and perceptions of me are wrong... you're on a roll tonight!

[Zackman]

ok had to look it up lol I don't watch sitcoms much... so once again your evaluations and perceptions of me are wrong... you're on a roll tonight!
Show Mikey your gun sexy. :thumbsup:

[Black Widow]

I did in the republican, democrat or redneck thread. He laughed at me pretty much lol it was awesome. he had no reply. :D


But here's another pic of me with the 9mm. I call this one my wanna be Mafia pic :lmao2:

[mwillman]

Im not impressed seeing a little girl with a gun.

[Black Widow]

Who said I was trying to impress you? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

WHY would I want to impress you? :lmao2:

[opinionator]

Interesting...

it seems that only the ladies here have a protective instinct toward their own family. While it is no surprise that women aggressively defend their own, what does that say about the men on this thread?

To those who say "it isn't a fair question!!" I would remark that it isn't necessary to respond if you don't like the question.

Of course it is a fair question, but it is one that certain sorts of folks, mike dukakis for example, cannot answer. They simply cannot apply 'principals' to the real world, and so become confused and frightened.

Kind of like the difference between the classroom and the outdoors.


.

[Black Widow]

maybe that's why more women are becoming gun owners now a days. Real talk. Well said Op.

[mwillman]

It says we know the law of the land.

You dont help your family by going to jail.

[Black Widow]

I'd go to jail in a HEARTBEAT to protect my family at all costs. I would die for my family.

[mwillman]

Glad to hear it.
Its So impressive making grand heroic statements on the internet.

[The Professor]

mike dukakis, good point, nicely played

classrooms vs outdoors

ideals and platitudes vs reality

head in the clouds vs feet on the ground

knowing the difference between ruff interrogation and torture

knowing the difference between what america does, which is restricted and circumscribed by our own sense of values, decency, fair play

vs what our enemies do, which is WANTON

torture is WANTON

waterboarding was very carefully confined and restricted

by people with their feet on the ground

the folks around here who call it torture are always the first to blame america for everything

give us credit for nothing

even tho we SAVED their precious soviet experiment for another TWO GENERATIONS

until DEAR RONNIE TORE DOWN THAT WALL

we need to set the example, some aver

just whose example should we all be following?

switzerland's?

sweden's?

china's?

mr putin's?

how bout israel's mossad?

LOLOL!

please, boys and girls, let's at least TRY to keep it REAL

waterboarding is no more torture than is tazing

which does more than just SIMULATE electrocution

electrocution is how they OFFED bundy in florida

remember OLD SPARKY?

don't taze me, bro!

LOLOL!

i'll TALK!

your family is buried in a pit 2 miles outta town, i'll take you there...

just please, dear GOD, keep that CATERPILLAR away from me!

LOLOLOL!!!

[MintJulep]

what does that say about the men on this thread?

I think SeniorChief will be happy to answer that question for you. :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

I'd go to jail in a HEARTBEAT to protect my family at all costs. I would die for my family.Me too!!! I wouldn't have to think twice about it.

[Black Widow]

Exactly. Sheesh some people here are weird. I'm so glad I'm married to a man that wouldn't think twice to take a bullet for me! http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t292/smiliegirl2007/smiley_cloudnine.gif

[Hog Trash]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?

.The proper response is: Whatever it takes!...Zero limitations!

[opinionator]

I think SeniorChief will be happy to answer that question for you. :lmao2:

Okey Dokey...Bring what ya got!

If the 'Law of the Land' would stop your attempt to free your family, you are, with little doubt, a weed-smoker. While this doesn't rattle me, it does seem to rattle those who enforce the laws of the land (cops, judges, etc.).

This is an example of the selective nature of the liberal point of view, and the more (personally) defined view of most Conservatives. Human thought and opinion requires a nuance that liberals do not possess, and democrats emulate. This is why they are unable to criticize and dissent from their leaders--particularly the chosen one--and why the relentless attacks on free dissenting speech bother them not at all.

Personally, there are laws I don't care about. I have smoked weed, not since becoming an adult, and I don't care very much that I could have been jailed for it. I think we need far more nuance in our sentencing guidelines. So what?

This tiny example brings out the differences between the far left and the rest of humanity. Most folks understand the concepts of 'right' and 'wrong'. Liberals do not, nor would they want them bandied about. See, that would lead to open discussions about the ACLU fight against Megans Law and Jessica's Law, and they can't have that. Just ask the women in your household about that one!!

Just tell the truth. I posted this thread because it so easily defeats and torments liberals. What is wrong with the truth?

Is it 'right' to torture for information in order to save one's family?

Who are you responsible for, ultimately?

Who depends on you to protect and defend them?

So, is it 'right' to not torture for information in order to save one's family?





.

[Binky]

wtf is 24?


A nighttime tv cop/cia whatever drama. Good show.

[Binky]

I did in the republican, democrat or redneck thread. He laughed at me pretty much lol it was awesome. he had no reply. :D


But here's another pic of me with the 9mm. I call this one my wanna be Mafia pic :lmao2:


Is that thing real or faux? LOL! If real, better be careful as not something to mess around with. Is it an Ak47 or an AR 15? Do they even make AR's anymore?

[Black Widow]

Its very real. 9mm carbine with custom stock :)

[Independent Harry]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?






.

Again, you've been watching too much 24, when does this hypothetical shit actually happen?

[Smurf-Herder]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?

.

Well, as a bedtime thought .............

Assuming I'm not a police officer, in which case they wouldn't be in my custody anyway (being a conflict of interest)........... so assuming he's my prisoner; someone I've caught on my own as a private citizen ... not being responsible for representing anyone's integrity but my own ...........

For the sake of not potentially violating any rules on the board, lets just say it would be very, very messy.

Now as far as I'm concerned, this is a hypothetical situation, so I'm not advocating violence in general.

But when my ex-wife and kids' lives are at stake, I put my life on the line - period. It doesn't matter one bit if I go to jail for life, if it means saving the lives of my ex and my kids. Not one bit.

[Hog Trash]

Again, you've been watching too much 24, when does this hypothetical shit actually happen?Violence in some form or fashion occurs a thousand times somewhere every single day.

Just because you haven't been a victim or a witness to violence doesn't make it any less so.

It sounds like you have lived a sheltered and protected life and should be very thankful.

[Mr. Blue]

Well, this is one of those hypothetical questions that are easy to answer, but has absolutely no relevance to the recent topics on the forum. There's a reason why they don't let family members, etc, interrogate, punish, etc, criminals.

Okay, so let's say I am put in this crazy hypothetical situation...have you seen the movie Taken? Yeah, that's what I would do.

Now if you want to talk about the policy of torture, that's another situation altogether, and people need to really answer some fundamental questions here:

Is waterboarding torture? Seems like people are willing to jump on the torture topic without definitively saying yes or no on this? If you follow the Bush/GOP partyline on the topic...this isn't torture...so, why even ask the hypothetical?

If you do believe it's torture then you have to ask yourself if this is the way America wants to pursue matters. Again, I think America has this myth about itself being all pure and innocent when we've never been that way. However, should we take the high road, or take the low one?

Also, we spend so much time on the topic of "torture" instead of...why not bulletproof America as much as possible? I mean we have wide open boarders. Our ports are pathetically guarded. Our transportation, energy, etc, grid is vulnerable, etc, etc, etc.

At some point, the people we detain are going to have useless information. If I knew dude got caught and was singing to the authorities, I'd change my fucking plans. So, isn't there a point where we should start playing a little more zone defense instead of relying on what we can torture out of someone? Or umm, not torture if that's your position on it.

[opinionator]

Well, as a bedtime thought .............

Assuming I'm not a police officer, in which case they wouldn't be in my custody anyway (being a conflict of interest)........... so assuming he's my prisoner; someone I've caught on my own as a private citizen ... not being responsible for representing anyone's integrity but my own ...........

For the sake of not potentially violating any rules on the board, lets just say it would be very, very messy.

Now as far as I'm concerned, this is a hypothetical situation, so I'm not advocating violence in general.

But when my ex-wife and kids' lives are at stake, I put my life on the line - period. It doesn't matter one bit if I go to jail for life, if it means saving the lives of my ex and my kids. Not one bit.




Great answer, perfect. Why is it so easy for Hog Trash and others of us to answer this question? It doesn't make us 'in favor' of torture, but it does
mean that we understand the need to act is a part of the quotient. At least some of the leftist wafflers here would gut somebody with a gaff-hook in order to save their family, but would rather lie about it to hold the line..

And even though this IS a hypothetical, so is any of us judging the actions of men in the field, with some obvious exceptions. Torture for entertainment, which has obviously occurred with all sides of all conflicts, is sickening and unforgivable.

Torture for live-saving information is a bit of a slippery slope. Where do you stop? Despite what the left would like to believe, torture works. Of course. This is why these ---- will not release the entire record. In the case of someone who knows nothing, it can obviously generate erroneous information. We can be sure that those in the field are not interrogating those they think don't know something.

It is worth noting that even Errol Morris, probably the finest director of documentaries in our time, could find only one example of a prisoner death at A-G. And you know he was trying. Hard.

I can see no possible potential benefit to most, if not all, of the controversial actions against prisoners there, but we have to be able to discern the difference between caterpillars, panties on the head, and sleeplessness when compared to eye-gouging, limb-removal, electric shock, and beheading.

The argument that 'they are much worse' is galling, but carries weight in the case of torture. We aggressively pursue allegations, make arrests, punish the guilty. And it is fair to compare our policies of conduct to that of other countries, and to recognize the 'superiority'(yeah, yeah, I know) of these policies.

Hypothetical questions like these are essential to ferret out the real from the rhetoric. Thanks for playing along!



.

[opinionator]

Well, this is one of those hypothetical questions that are easy to answer, but has absolutely no relevance to the recent topics on the forum. There's a reason why they don't let family members, etc, interrogate, punish, etc, criminals.

Okay, so let's say I am put in this crazy hypothetical situation...have you seen the movie Taken? Yeah, that's what I would do.

Now if you want to talk about the policy of torture, that's another situation altogether, and people need to really answer some fundamental questions here:

Is waterboarding torture? Seems like people are willing to jump on the torture topic without definitively saying yes or no on this? If you follow the Bush/GOP partyline on the topic...this isn't torture...so, why even ask the hypothetical?

If you do believe it's torture then you have to ask yourself if this is the way America wants to pursue matters. Again, I think America has this myth about itself being all pure and innocent when we've never been that way. However, should we take the high road, or take the low one?

Also, we spend so much time on the topic of "torture" instead of...why not bulletproof America as much as possible? I mean we have wide open boarders. Our ports are pathetically guarded. Our transportation, energy, etc, grid is vulnerable, etc, etc, etc.

At some point, the people we detain are going to have useless information. If I knew dude got caught and was singing to the authorities, I'd change my fucking plans. So, isn't there a point where we should start playing a little more zone defense instead of relying on what we can torture out of someone? Or umm, not torture if that's your position on it.


There are home invasions all over the country all the time, so this type of question is not as far removed from reality as we would like it to be. Anytime a family is in imminent danger, the rules change.

So...is the President responsible for the well-being of each American? As though he was, so to speak, the head of the family? Like the oath of office, to protect and defend?

Is our military expected to not aggressively, violently question those that hold life and death information over the men in the unit?

If the sole question here is water-boarding, the sole answer is that folks do not die from it. Luckily, our president has decided that the enemy should know that they will not be drowned while being waterboarded, so they can hold out without any fear. This, of course, will cost American lives but certainly won't be the only American lives this president sacrifices.

So, to the question: If waterboarding IS torture, than it is necessary to make the call on other non-lethel forms of interrogation, like sleep-deprivation, loud music, prayer-time denial, panties on the head, etc.




.

[Bill Cosby]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?
.

I need to know the details first. Will it be Arnie, CLint or someone else doing the torture that will save the day??

Will there be long commerical breaks to sell toilet paper & beer w/in that time frame???

Does it need to be a last second-save the day confession or can he just cry like a bitch & spoil the whole show..............

Pls just cry me up an excuse here to torture someone else. Anyone but me.............. :melodramatic:

[opinionator]

I need to know the details first. Will it be Arnie, CLint or someone else doing the torture that will save the day??

Will there be long commerical breaks to sell toilet paper & beer w/in that time frame???

Does it need to be a last second-save the day confession or can he just cry like a bitch & spoil the whole show..............

Pls just cry me up an excuse here to torture someone else. Anyone but me.............. :melodramatic:


No, it is you, Bill Cosby, with decisions to be made and the power to carry them out.

There is, of course, no guarantee that the information you receive, if any, will be useful.

But there are two guarantees in this exercise: this guy knows where they are, and they will die in 4 hours if not freed.

That's all.

Not too complex, and no one has to play!



.

[Mr. Blue]

There are home invasions all over the country all the time, so this type of question is not as far removed from reality as we would like it to be. Anytime a family is in imminent danger, the rules change.

So...is the President responsible for the well-being of each American? As though he was, so to speak, the head of the family? Like the oath of office, to protect and defend?

Is our military expected to not aggressively, violently question those that hold life and death information over the men in the unit?

If the sole question here is water-boarding, the sole answer is that folks do not die from it. Luckily, our president has decided that the enemy should know that they will not be drowned while being waterboarded, so they can hold out without any fear. This, of course, will cost American lives but certainly won't be the only American lives this president sacrifices.

So, to the question: If waterboarding IS torture, than it is necessary to make the call on other non-lethel forms of interrogation, like sleep-deprivation, loud music, prayer-time denial, panties on the head, etc.

.

Okay, so you want to use the home invasion example? Fine.

Let's say America is a home, President is Daddy, and the citizens are the children.

In your world, the house gets broken into, the kids get taken, and the President only has one person to quickly torture the information out of...

In my world, the house doesn't even get broken into, that's right, we got a Brinks home security system, the President is waiting at the door holding a gun, and the kids are sleeping safely upstairs. The crazy idiot that does break in, is heading towards a world of hurt.

Whether you disagree/agree with Bush. Whether you disagree/agree with Obama. Ultimately they're both failing to secure on that fundamental level. They're leaving the front door wide open. No home security.

[Bill Cosby]

No, it is you, Bill Cosby, with decisions to be made and the power to carry them out.

There is, of course, no guarantee that the information you receive, if any, will be useful.

But there are two guarantees in this exercise: this guy knows where they are, and they will die in 4 hours if not freed.

That's all.

Not too complex, and no one has to play!



.

Well like all good Americans up to bush the lesser admin I will not stoop to torture..........

[mwillman]

For some reason this reminds me of a Christmas at my parents house about 20 years ago. We were sitting around watching some bad TV when we heard a terrible accident out front. We went out to see what was up and we saw a drunk driver had run over a young girl killing her instantly. The first cop to show up turned out to be the girls father. He went chasing after the guy that had just killed his daughter and caught him. What did he do? He took him to jail,he didn't even lay a hand on the guy.

So say what you want but to me that cop is a much bigger hero then some redneck torturing someone.

[Hog Trash]

We need to think rationally here for just a minute folks...Nobody wants to torture people...We are not savages...Americans don't torture because they enjoy watching others suffer.

Sometimes it is necessary for good people to stoop to the level of the bad people to maintain a safe and peaceful environment for us to live and work and raise our children.

You don't have to have faith in your government to have faith in America...These people you are talking about are your friends, neigbors and family members.

These are people just like you and me doing a very difficult and dangerous job...I have never said this to anyone but my children, but you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Your accusations are thoughtless and cruel...Someone has to do what these great Americans have been called on to do and they have shouldered the responsibility well.

Liberals believe that what we have was provided by some big hearted government politician...Wrong, it was provided by people like the ones you are now ridiculing and insulting.

These people will have to live with what they do and it will be relived in every nightmare for the rest of their lives...It is part of what they have sacrficed for you and your childrens future.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5iaah_johnny-cash-drive-on-live-manhattan_music

*

[mwillman]

I can agree with you to a point Hog but I'm sorry I do not see what we have gained by this torture and I don't see any evidence that it was needed.

[MintJulep]

I can agree with you to a point Hog but I'm sorry I do not see what we have gained by this torture and I don't see any evidence that it was needed.We won't know that unless The Chosen One releases ALL of the information -- not just the parts that fit his leftist agenda.

[doctordog]

We won't know that unless The Chosen One releases ALL of the information -- not just the parts that fit his leftist agenda.


He has been totally pathetic so far, why would we expect him to act like an adult now.?

[mwillman]

Well I'll just ignore your partisan behavior and say that nothing to do with the Iraq war will be enough for me since I don't think the Iraq war has done anything except bankrupt our nation.

As for Terrorist attacks we will have to see, I do not think we should torture ever but I will listen to the excuses for it and if they are good enough I might be able to let it pass.

[Hog Trash]

I can agree with you to a point Hog but I'm sorry I do not see what we have gained by this torture and I don't see any evidence that it was needed.The information you speak of has not been made public yet, but from what I understand it soon will be.

Experience has taught me that most liberals will not acknowledge what they do not wish to see...You know this is true.

Do you really believe Americans torture people just to watch them suffer?...Come on Willy?...Really?...I'm not that stupid...Are you?

[mwillman]

I dont think they do it just to watch people suffer but I do think they do it becuase they are to stupid to realize that it doesn't work.

[MintJulep]

I dont think they do it just to watch people suffer but I do think they do it becuase they are to stupid to realize that it doesn't work.How do you know it doesn't work?

[Hog Trash]

I dont think they do it just to watch people suffer but I do think they do it becuase they are to stupid to realize that it doesn't work.You choose to believe unreliable sources.

You are only fooling yourself, Willy.

The people who deny reliability, have an agenda.

Like me, I don't believe anything good about Obama.

At least I'm honest...Are you honest enough to tell the truth?

You have no idea what the truth is, but you know what you want it to be.

[Independent Harry]

We need to think rationally here for just a minute folks...Nobody wants to torture people...We are not savages...Americans don't torture because they enjoy watching others suffer.

Sometimes it is necessary for good people to stoop to the level of the bad people to maintain a safe and peaceful environment for us to live and work and raise our children.

You don't have to have faith in your government to have faith in America...These people you are talking about are your friends, neigbors and family members.

These are people just like you and me doing a very difficult and dangerous job...I have never said this to anyone but my children, but you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Your accusations are thoughtless and cruel...Someone has to do what these great Americans have been called on to do and they have shouldered the responsibility well.

Liberals believe that what we have was provided by some big hearted government politician...Wrong, it was provided by people like the ones you are now ridiculing and insulting.

These people will have to live with what they do and it will be relived in every nightmare for the rest of their lives...It is part of what they have sacrficed for you and your childrens future.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5iaah_johnny-cash-drive-on-live-manhattan_music

*

How Machiavellian of you...

[mwillman]

You choose to believe unreliable sources.

You are only fooling yourself, Willy.

The people who deny reliability, have an agenda.

Like me, I don't believe anything good about Obama.

At least I'm honest...Are you honest enough to tell the truth?

You have no idea what the truth is, but you know what you want it to be.


Sorry but I dont think many of the leading generals and high level officers in the military are bad sources. Nor do I think the many studies that have been done over the years are wrong either.

[Moby]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?

Why do people think this has anything to do with the actions of governments?

If it's my family I will question the person for about 30 seconds before I start beating them, cutting off fingers and who knows what else in an effort to save my family.

Do we want all world governments to use those tactics. Considering how often our government has been right and wrong on important issues I want our government to not use these types of tactics.

They may be very effective in Somalia or other places when committing genocide but have little place in a civilized democracy.

[Moby]

You choose to believe unreliable sources.

You are only fooling yourself, Willy.

The people who deny reliability, have an agenda.

Like me, I don't believe anything good about Obama.

At least I'm honest...Are you honest enough to tell the truth?

You have no idea what the truth is, but you know what you want it to be.
Didn't you claim that you believe anything about Obama without any proof or evidence?

Then you talk about how much you enjoy listening to pundits.

I think you meant to say, "Hog chooses to believe unreliable sources." ?

[doctordog]

Why do people think this has anything to do with the actions of governments?

If it's my family I will question the person for about 30 seconds before I start beating them, cutting off fingers and who knows what else in an effort to save my family.

Do we want all world governments to use those tactics. Considering how often our government has been right and wrong on important issues I want our government to not use these types of tactics.

They may be very effective in Somalia or other places when committing genocide but have little place in a civilized democracy.

We have no problem killing unborn babies which are completely innocent. How fucking civilized is that?

[mwillman]

Please, every time you beat off you are killing unborn children so dont even bring up that crap.

You have no problems supporting torture and killing already born people so protecting those that don't exist yet is not much in the way of moral or ethical.

[Black Widow]

Please, every time you beat off you are killing unborn children so dont even bring up that crap.

You have no problems supporting torture and killing already born people so protecting those that don't exist yet is not much in the way of moral or ethical.
I hope that was a joke lol

[doctordog]

Please, every time you beat off you are killing unborn children so dont even bring up that crap.

You have no problems supporting torture and killing already born people so protecting those that don't exist yet is not much in the way of moral or ethical.

if there is a heartbeat they exist. We charge people that kill pregnant mothers with two murders so why is it not murder during an abortion? Liberals are all the same, they will vacuum out a womb with a smile and then protest a murderer's execution that killed 20 people up and down the freeway.

[mwillman]

Because its the womans body and she gets to choose whether or not she wants to have a child. We have 6 billion people in the world we do not need 12 billion.

Conservatives pretend they are moral becuase they support things that dont exist yet but once they are here its a free for all of blood and destruction.

[doctordog]

Because its the womans body and she gets to choose whether or not she wants to have a child. We have 6 billion people in the world we do not need 12 billion.

Conservatives pretend they are moral becuase they support things that dont exist yet but once they are here its a free for all of blood and destruction.

So a heartbeat does not define existence? how do you charge a killer with two murders then when the child is non-existent?

Liberals pretend to be moral when protesting and execution while supporting the killing of unborn children like dove hunting at a gun club.

[Hog Trash]

How Machiavellian of you...You lost me but I suspect you believe I'm being dramatic.

Check your conscience Harry....I'm trying to stress a point....Those are real people I'm talking about.

They have real feelings, real lives and real families....These are good people you guys are trashing.

They'll be standing next to you at the bar someday....You don't wanna say something that might hurt them or get yourself hurt.

There were no liberals when I came home...There was hippies though and they were the meanist, rudest, cruelist people I ever saw in my life.

A few of thems big mouths caused their asses to get kicked....Bad....Real bad....Ugly bad....Proof that bad things do happen to bad people too.

[Hog Trash]

Didn't you claim that you believe anything about Obama without any proof or evidence?

Then you talk about how much you enjoy listening to pundits.

I think you meant to say, "Hog chooses to believe unreliable sources." ?Yes, I said that and I pretty much repeated it again in my post you just quoted, einstein....I proudly stand by my statement, still. :thumbsup:

Hog's Obama reliability system;

FACT-Anyone who says something bad about Obama is telling the truth!

FACT-Anyone who says something good about Obama is lying!

[Bill Cosby]

Didn't you claim that you believe anything about Obama without any proof or evidence?

Then you talk about how much you enjoy listening to pundits.

I think you meant to say, "Hog chooses to believe unreliable sources." ?

I think it is about this line right here Hog Trash-You have no idea what the truth is, but you know what you want it to be.

This is what he did in his own example.. He is not interested in truth or anything else......... It is what he wants it to be- nothing more, nothing less...

[Binky]

Lots of talk here about the torture issue. Let's get down to it:

Your family is held hostage. A person who knows where they are is in your custody. They will be killed if not rescued within 4 hours.

What will you do to extract information? What won't you do?






.


As much as I hate the whole idea of torturing anyone, and since it was my family that was held hostage, I would begin snapping of the ends of his fingers. If that didn't work, I'd use the clippers on his balls. I bet he'd start yapping then.

[foxbaron]

I agree that the normal person under normal circumstances would even think about torture.

A kidnapping of a family member is not a normal circumstance. Therefore you cannot expect people to act normal.

Personally, if a member of my family was kidnapped and I had my hands on one of the perpetrators I would without hesitation torture him unmercifully.

I would start with cutting off his fingers one at a time. Whether or not I ever got to his private parts would be his choice.

If it got that far than at that point I would have to assume he has no info, has no intention of revealing any info he does have and my family member is probably going to die anyway. I would then slowly skin him alive doing everything possible to keep him concious and alive during the process so he felt every single cut no matter how many days it took.

When done I would mail him back to HIS family in a box, or several boxes.

Just my thoughts on the situation.

[Moby]

We have no problem killing unborn babies which are completely innocent. How fucking civilized is that?
That's another issue and if you'd like to discuss then start another thread.

[Moby]

if there is a heartbeat they exist. We charge people that kill pregnant mothers with two murders so why is it not murder during an abortion? Liberals are all the same, they will vacuum out a womb with a smile and then protest a murderer's execution that killed 20 people up and down the freeway.
Excuse me?

How many people on this board have vacuumed out a womb?

[doctordog]

Excuse me?

How many people on this board have vacuumed out a womb?


If you are for abortion, you are guilty.

[Moby]

Yes, I said that and I pretty much repeated it again in my post you just quoted, einstein....I proudly stand by my statement, still. :thumbsup:

Hog's Obama reliability system;

FACT-Anyone who says something bad about Obama is telling the truth!

FACT-Anyone who says something good about Obama is lying!
The why would you accuse someone else of

You choose to believe unreliable sources.
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

[doctordog]

That's another issue and if you'd like to discuss then start another thread.

So is Genocide in Somalia

[Moby]

If you are for abortion, you are guilty.
Guilty of what?

What's next?

If you are for capital punishment you are guilty?

If you are for drive through fast food you are guilty because many car accidents involve someone eating or talking on the phone?

If you support the NRA then you are guilty every time a murder is committed with a gun?

If you are for deregulating food and drugs then you are guilty every time someone gets sick or dies from tainted food?

What about miscarriages that happen in the first few hours or days without the woman even knowing that she was pregnant? Is she guilty of murder because of neglect in her womb? What if she smokes, or drinks or is over weight and this happens because her womb is a toxic place?

[Moby]

So is Genocide in Somalia
I'm not accusing anyone of being guilty for something happening in Somalia.

[doctordog]

Guilty of what?

What's next?

If you are for capital punishment you are guilty?

If you are for drive through fast food you are guilty because many car accidents involve someone eating or talking on the phone?

If you support the NRA then you are guilty every time a murder is committed with a gun?

If you are for deregulating food and drugs then you are guilty every time someone gets sick or dies from tainted food?

What about miscarriages that happen in the first few hours or days without the woman even knowing that she was pregnant? Is she guilty of murder because of neglect in her womb? What if she smokes, or drinks or is over weight and this happens because her womb is a toxic place?

Now you go retarded on me, damn Moby you can't be that stupid. If you vote for abortion you are guilty, yes, if I vote for capital punishment enabling it to be carried out then yes it is the same as carrying it out. BTW I am for capital punishment. It is not a good character trait when you won't own your actions SM.

[Hog Trash]

The why would you accuse someone else of


Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?What does believing anything bad about Obama have to do with "believing unreliable sources"?

Do you assume any bad accusation or statement about Obama must be the result of an "unreliable source"?

Yes, I do believe Obama is a very bad person who has never done anything good for anyone in his life unless something was in it for him.

[Eagle1]

Anything and everything. There is nothing I wouldn't do.

Ditto for me. I'd stop at nothing to save the family.

[Moby]

Do you assume any bad accusation or statement about Obama must be the result of an "unreliable source"?

Of course not. He's a politician so he's scum.

I do assume that anything coming from any source to do with the three billionaires that I often mentions is worth investigating before believing. They have a long stream of getting people all up tight with blatantly false information.