Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida link

[Life_Long_Dem!]

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

Such information would've provided a foundation for one of former President George W. Bush's main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. In fact, no evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam's regime.

The use of abusive interrogation — widely considered torture — as part of Bush's quest for a rationale to invade Iraq came to light as the Senate issued a major report tracing the origin of the abuses and President Barack Obama opened the door to prosecuting former U.S. officials for approving them.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney and others who advocated the use of sleep deprivation, isolation and stress positions and waterboarding, which simulates drowning, insist that they were legal.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration.

"There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity.

"The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there."

It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document.

"There was constant pressure on the intelligence agencies and the interrogators to do whatever it took to get that information out of the detainees, especially the few high-value ones we had, and when people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people to push harder," he continued.

"Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn't any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam, and that no such ties were likely because the two were fundamentally enemies, not allies."

Senior administration officials, however, "blew that off and kept insisting that we'd overlooked something, that the interrogators weren't pushing hard enough, that there had to be something more we could do to get that information," he said.

A former U.S. Army psychiatrist, Maj. Charles Burney, told Army investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility were under "pressure" to produce evidence of ties between al Qaida and Iraq.

"While we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al Qaida and Iraq," Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. "The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . . . there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results."

Excerpts from Burney's interview appeared in a full, declassified report on a two-year investigation into detainee abuse released on Tuesday by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., called Burney's statement "very significant."

"I think it's obvious that the administration was scrambling then to try to find a connection, a link (between al Qaida and Iraq)," Levin said in a conference call with reporters. "They made out links where they didn't exist."

Levin recalled Cheney's assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.

A senior Guantanamo Bay interrogator, David Becker, told the committee that only "a couple of nebulous links" between al Qaida and Iraq were uncovered during interrogations of unidentified detainees, the report said.

Others in the interrogation operation "agreed there was pressure to produce intelligence, but did not recall pressure to identify links between Iraq and al Qaida," the report said.

The report, the executive summary of which was released in November, found that Rumsfeld, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and other former senior Bush administration officials were responsible for the abusive interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo and in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Rumsfeld approved extreme interrogation techniques for Guantanamo in December 2002. He withdrew his authorization the following month amid protests by senior military lawyers that some techniques could amount to torture, violating U.S. and international laws.

Military interrogators, however, continued employing some techniques in Afghanistan and later in Iraq.

Bush and his top lieutenants charged that Saddam was secretly pursuing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban, and had to be overthrown because he might provide them to al Qaida for an attack on the U.S. or its allies.

(John Walcott and Warren P. Strobel contributed to this article.)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Abu Ghraib Head: We Were Scapegoated
Posted by Michelle Levi



Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who ran Iraq prisons in 2003, including the notorious Abu Ghraib prison was insistent that all orders on interrogation practices came from the top down during the Bush administration on CBS News’ The Early Show this morning.

“These soldiers didn't design these techniques on their own…we were following orders,” Karpinski told Harry Smith. “We were bringing this to our chain of command and they were saying whatever the military intelligence tells you to do out there you are authorized to do."

A new Senate Armed Services Committee report finds that early roots of U.S. interrogation practices were being circulated through the CIA and the Pentagon as early as 2002.

The report also ties the interrogation policies of the Bush administration to abuse cases at Abu Ghraib prison as well as to interrogations at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

After the scandal involving Abu Ghraib’s torture practices, Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired.

Karpinski argued that there was a “clear” line between the techniques condoned by top level administration officials and the practices condemned in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

“The line is clear,” she said. “It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.”

Karpiniski was insistent that she and the soldiers prosecuted were “scapegoated” by superiors in the administration.

“Scapegoat is the perfect word and it's an understatement,” she said. “Right now, with the hard, fast facts in those memos, the black and white proof, the administration is suggesting that those operatives should be immune from any investigations or persecution.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4961519.shtml

[radioguy]

Let it go people... Bush didn't lie and last time I checked, he wasn't president anymore.

[GetAClue]

Let it go people... Bush didn't lie and last time I checked, he wasn't president anymore.

After seeing the joke of a president that they voted for and the idiotic actions of said president, this is all they've got.

[SeniorChief]

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.


Yeah... so what?

[UABblazer]

Yeah... so what?

Its against the law and all codes of moral ethics. That's what.
And to think the US government employed you for 20 plus years..
Where in the fuck is our country coming to? I thank people for serving all the time, but i would never thank you.. all you deserve is a kick in the balls and a foot up your ass you fucking arrogant prick.

[GetAClue]

Its against the law and all codes of moral ethics. That's what.
And to think the US government employed you for 20 plus years..
Where in the fuck is our country coming to? I thank people for serving all the time, but i would never thank you.. all you deserve is a kick in the balls and a foot up your ass you fucking arrogant prick.

Dude, you really need to graduate college, go out get a job, start a family and see what the world is really like. It is hard to take someone seriously that has yet to have to support themselves and a family.

[UABblazer]

Dude, you really need to graduate college, go out get a job, start a family and see what the world is really like. It is hard to take someone seriously that has yet to have to support themselves and a family.
:lmao2: :lmao2: I have lived in four countries, visited dozens more and been exposed to more parts of the world than most of the people in here.
BTW, my parents haven't cut me a check in over three years. Nice try though asswipe.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

I have said this before on other message boards and shall say it on here, I truly believe what we did and how we treated these people in most cases was illegal and immoral, breaking MANY international rules of law. We hold other countries accountable and are the first to say "punish and kill these people" they broke rules. What makes us so much better than the rest of the world that we don't have to follow the same rules. We should be held to the same accountable standards as the rest of the world, ever hear of leading by example?

[Bill Cosby]

I have said this before on other message boards and shall say it on here, I truly believe what we did and how we treated these people in most cases was illegal and immoral, breaking MANY international rules of law. We hold other countries accountable and are the first to say "punish and kill these people" they broke rules. What makes us so much better than the rest of the world that we don't have to follow the same rules. We should be held to the same accountable standards as the rest of the world, ever hear of leading by example?

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Life_Long_Dem!]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so glad that there are actually people on this board like bill cosby that have common sense and a sense of respect for their country and the rest of the world! Its people like Senior Cheif and Lady Liberty that put a true black eye on this nation with their FUCK THE WORLD we are above all others mentality, we hold others accountable for US and international law but not ourselves, its that do as I say not as I do attitude that tarnishes this great nation we all love.

[MintJulep]

I am so glad that there are actually people on this board like bill cosby that have common sense and a sense of respect for their country and the rest of the world! Its people like Senior Cheif and Lady Liberty that put a true black eye on this nation with their FUCK THE WORLD we are above all others mentality, we hold others accountable for US and international law but not ourselves, its that do as I say not as I do attitude that tarnishes this great nation we all love.Sorry, but if American lives are in danger, I don't give one damn about the comfort of terrorists. If Mohammed Atta could have been waterboarded, ppl like you would have sacrificed all 3,000 ppl at the WTC to save him two minutes of discomfort. Don't ever ask again why you and your ilk are called terrorist lovers. This is why.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Sorry, but if American lives are in danger, I don't give one damn about the comfort of terrorists. If Mohammed Atta could have been waterboarded, ppl like you would have sacrificed all 3,000 ppl at the WTC to save him two minutes of discomfort. Don't ever ask again why you and your ilk are called terrorist lovers. This is why.
I am starting to really believe those that say you are a bitch...a heartless one at that that lends nothing and I do mean NOTHING to these posts but your pointless yammering and belittling of those that disagree with you. Is this not a nation of diverse people anymore where we can have our own thoughts and opinions and disagree with others? I say the answer is no that it is either your with us or if you disagree and state why no matter what you are an anti american terrorist lover....sad....so sad and fucking pathetic that we are headed this way, GOD help us all.

[MintJulep]

I am starting to really believe those that say you are a bitch...a heartless one at that that lends nothing and I do mean NOTHING to these posts but your pointless yammering and belittling of those that disagree with you. Is this not a nation of diverse people anymore where we can have our own thoughts and opinions and disagree with others? I say the answer is no that it is either your with us or if you disagree and state why no matter what you are an anti american terrorist lover....sad....so sad and fucking pathetic that we are headed this way, GOD help us all.Look pal, YOU are the one who came on this thread and mentioned me in your bile filled rant. If you can't take the wake from that, then STFU.

You know what they say, a hit dog always hollers. A terrorist lover by any other name would still smell as foul....

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Look pal, YOU are the one who came on this thread and mentioned me in your bile filled rant. If you can't take the wake from that, then STFU.

You know what they say, a hit dog always hollers. A terrorist lover by any other name would still smell as foul....
and a nasty foul smelling dirty whore smells all the same!

[MintJulep]

and a nasty foul smelling dirty whore smells all the same!There is no name you can call me which comes close to the utter disgrace of loving terrorists and being a traitor to my own country.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Sorry, but if American lives are in danger, I don't give one damn
about the comfort of terrorists. If Mohammed Atta could have been
waterboarded, ppl like you would have sacrificed all 3,000 ppl at the
WTC to save him two minutes of discomfort. Don't ever ask again
why you and your ilk are called terrorist lovers. This is why.
Bush didn't need to waterboard anyone to prevent the WTC attack.

All he needed to do was pay attention to the presidential memo
from the CIA which specifically warned him six weeks before 9/11
that "Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US" and that "his
followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber
Ramzi Yousef" and that the FBI detected "patterns of suspicious
activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings
or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal
buildings in New York."

Bush needed to cancel his month-long vacation in Bumbfuck Texas,
get his lazy ass back to Washington DC and do his fucking job
protecting the American people.

But, as we all know, he failed to do his job, and 3000 Americans
died as a result.

He also failed to capture or kill Bin Laden, the alleged mastermind
of 9/11.

Great job, Bushie.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Bush didn't need to waterboard anyone to prevent the WTC attack.

All he needed to do was pay attention to the presidential memo
from the CIA which specifically warned him six weeks before 9/11
that "Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US" and that "his
followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber
Ramzi Yousef" and that the FBI detected "patterns of suspicious
activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings
or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal
buildings in New York."

Bush needed to cancel his month-long vacation in Bumbfuck Texas,
get his lazy ass back to Washington DC and do his fucking job
protecting the American people.

But, as we all know, he failed to do his job, and 3000 Americans
died as a result.

He also failed to capture or kill Bin Laden, the alleged mastermind
of 9/11.

Great job, Bushie.
true and basic common knowledge to most people but to those on the right they like to try and justify the unjustifiable with lies and hatred as well as opinion based beliefs instead of the true facts.

[Binky]

:lmao2: :lmao2: I have lived in four countries, visited dozens more and been exposed to more parts of the world than most of the people in here.
BTW, my parents haven't cut me a check in over three years. Nice try though asswipe.


Since your parents haven't cut you a check in three years, you must be fairly young, right? Even so, living in four different countries is a lot for any person, especially one who isn't all the old. Now that you're married, do you think you'll still be able to live that lifestyle? Rather hard to gad around or pick up and move when you begin raising a family. Might be wise to settle down and appreciate America for a change.

[Binky]

Look pal, YOU are the one who came on this thread and mentioned me in your bile filled rant. If you can't take the wake from that, then STFU.

You know what they say, a hit dog always hollers. A terrorist lover by any other name would still smell as foul....


:lmao2: :lmao2: A terorist lover by any other name is still a traitor.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Lady liberty, senior and radioguy among others in that ilk, I suppose you curse and damn any muslim or anyone of arab decent that you see on the street regardless if you know the person or not?:(

[MintJulep]

Bush didn't need to waterboard anyone to prevent the WTC attack.Your opinion

All he needed to do was pay attention to the presidential memo
from the CIA which specifically warned him six weeks before 9/11
that "Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US" and that "his
followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber
Ramzi Yousef" and that the FBI detected "patterns of suspicious
activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings
or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal
buildings in New York."

Since Clinton received the same memo in Dec. 1998 and did nothing, looks like it was him who dropped the ball.....

December 4, 1998: Clinton Warned ‘Bin Laden Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft’ Inside US (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a120498hijackingpdb#a120498hijack ingpdb)

On December 4, 1998, an item in President Clinton’s Presidential Daily Briefing (PDB) is titled, “Bin Laden Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks.” The PDB says “Bin Laden and is allies are preparing for attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of Sheikh Omar Abdul-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda.

Bush needed to cancel his month-long vacation in Bumbfuck Texas,
get his lazy ass back to Washington DC and do his fucking job
protecting the American people.

But, as we all know, he failed to do his job, and 3000 Americans
died as a result.

He also failed to capture or kill Bin Laden, the alleged mastermind
of 9/11.

Great job, Bushie.Say what you will but Bush kept us safe for eight years. The teleprompter-in-chief has done nothing but bow to the Saudis and go on an "Apologize for America Tour". God help us all.

[Smurf-Herder]

and a nasty foul smelling dirty whore smells all the same!

You're crossing a line here concerning Personal Attacks.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

sorry smurf, wont happen again but say something to ll7 she basically attacked me first, k

[Smurf-Herder]

sorry smurf, wont happen again but say something to ll7 she basically attacked me first, k

Actually, I read the whole thread before I posted that; and it looks like you singled out her and the Chief first. But it was still all marginally within a political context until you posted that specific reply.

Just keep it more political than personal, please.

[Bill Cosby]

Sorry, but if American lives are in danger, I don't give one damn about the comfort of terrorists..

Are you as concerned about the lives of "Americans" when their lives are threaten in another manner such as healthcare???

Or is it just from external attack???

[UABblazer]

Since your parents haven't cut you a check in three years, you must be fairly young, right? Even so, living in four different countries is a lot for any person, especially one who isn't all the old. Now that you're married, do you think you'll still be able to live that lifestyle? Rather hard to gad around or pick up and move when you begin raising a family. Might be wise to settle down and appreciate America for a change.

Im in college and not married. I have been self-sufficient for three years now because of a company I started. I work my ass off, but I know how to have fun as well. Trust me, there is probably not one person in here who loves and appreciates our country as much as I do.

[UABblazer]

Actually, I read the whole thread before I posted that; and it looks like you singled out her and the Chief first. But it was still all marginally within a political context until you posted that specific reply.

Just keep it more political than personal, please.

How is repeatedly calling someone a "terrorist lover" considered to be within political context? I don't think there is anyone in here who loves terrorists, and I think we can all agree something needs to be done to defeat and/or overcome those who wish us harm.
Just because some of us do not agree with all-out military might as the right course of action, and just because some of us see where our government has been at fault in dealing with these individuals, it doesn't mean we are "terrorist lovers"

It is a cheap shot that does nothing but proves LL's inability to carry on with an intelligent debate on political issues.

[MintJulep]

How is repeatedly calling someone a "terrorist lover" considered to be within political context? It is in a political context because leftists notoriously side with terrorists.

[Smurf-Herder]

How is repeatedly calling someone a "terrorist lover" considered to be within political context? I don't think there is anyone in here who loves terrorists, and I think we can all agree something needs to be done to defeat and/or overcome those who wish us harm.
Just because some of us do not agree with all-out military might as the right course of action, and just because some of us see where our government has been at fault in dealing with these individuals, it doesn't mean we are "terrorist lovers"

It is a cheap shot that does nothing but proves LL's inability to carry on with an intelligent debate on political issues.

Why don't we take a running tally of "terrorist lovers" compared to "racists"...

[Bill Cosby]

Why don't we take a running tally of "terrorist lovers" compared to "racists"...

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Not sure that is funny........

[radioguy]

Lady liberty, senior and radioguy among others in that ilk, I suppose you curse and damn any muslim or anyone of arab decent that you see on the street regardless if you know the person or not?:(

You really have no clue what conservatives are all about. We judge people by their actions, not by their religion or race. We treat people as equals, no matter who they are. We don't discriminate against anyone based on their religion or race, just as we don't afford special privileges to anyone based on that.

.

[Bill Cosby]

You really have no clue what conservatives are all about. We judge people by their actions, not by their religion or race. We treat people as equals, no matter who they are. We don't discriminate against anyone based on their religion or race, just as we don't afford special privileges to anyone based on that.

.

You would prob do yourself more justice if you spoke for yourself here.... Unless they elected you to be the village spokesman.........

[Betty Blowtorch]

Since Clinton received the same memo in Dec. 1998 and did nothing,
looks like it was him who dropped the ball.....

On December 4, 1998, an item in President Clinton’s Presidential Daily
Briefing (PDB) is titled, “Bin Laden Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and
Other Attacks.” The PDB says “Bin Laden and is allies are preparing for
attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of
Sheikh Omar Abdul-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda.

There's no question that the 9/11 attacks occurred on Bush's watch,
yet you resort to the typical wingnut excuse: blame Clinton! (because
he didn't prevent 9/11 three years before it happened.)

You say Clinton did nothing in Dec. 1998, but actually he ordered
missile strikes against al Qaeda terrorist bases and training camps
in Afghanistan and Sudan in August 1998.

Since Bush was on vacation in Texas when he was warned about
the impending threat posed by bin Laden in August 2001, the only
order given by Bush was for more beer and pretzels.



Say what you will but Bush kept us safe for eight years.
Well... except for those 3000 people who died horrible deaths on 9/11
while Bush was on a month-long vacation away from Washington, and
his intelligence advisors were "running around with their hair on fire,"
trying to warn Bush about the threat from al Queda.



The teleprompter-in-chief has done nothing but bow to the Saudis
and go on an "Apologize for America Tour". God help us all.
Bush left the US economy in a meltdown and initiated the first of the
massive federal bailouts, leaving Obama with a huge economic mess
to deal with.

Like a pack of yapping chihuahuas, you wingnuts have nitpicked every
move made by Obama from the first moment he entered office, while
making endless excuses for the Republican fuckup who left all of us
with a big mess to clean up.

[UABblazer]

Why don't we take a running tally of "terrorist lovers" compared to "racists"...

Why don't you take a running tally of the number of times I have called someone racist? Try that for starters

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Yeah smurf, not trying to cross any lines but since your going there I have used the term racist maybe 3 times in the well over 100 posts I have made since I came on here but I have been called a terrorist lover WAY more times than I care to count just because I dont have the same beliefs as lady liberty and others and have been mocked daily by Senior, lady and others, how is that in any sort of political context?? Seems to me your letting your bias show more and more and I thought being a moderator meant being neutral and showing no bias at all, seems you let WAY more go by untouched that comes from your right leaning friends then from us on the left.

[MintJulep]

Yeah smurf, not trying to cross any lines but since your going there I have used the term racist maybe 3 times in the well over 100 posts I have made since I came on here but I have been called a terrorist lover WAY more times than I care to count just because I dont have the same beliefs as lady liberty and others and have been mocked daily by Senior, lady and others, how is that in any sort of political context?? Seems to me your letting your bias show more and more and I thought being a moderator meant being neutral and showing no bias at all, seems you let WAY more go by untouched that comes from your right leaning friends then from us on the left.
You started an entire thread calling me a racist. I asked you to back it up with proof and you disappeared. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Lady liberty, senior and radioguy among others in that ilk, I suppose you curse and damn any muslim or anyone of arab decent that you see on the street regardless if you know the person or not?

that is the ONLY thing that may be consider using race and that did not start out the thread that was several pages in and I was not specifically calling you or anyone racist, I was stating facts from previous posts you and others have made saying that muslims are inferior people that dont deserve the same rights as other americans, if I was out of line I do apologize but I really dont think I was, just calling a spade a spade since you seem it ok to bad mouth me and deem me an anti american terrorist lover on a daily basis just because I dont believe in your twisted logic and have compassion and respect for others!

[MintJulep]

Lady liberty, senior and radioguy among others in that ilk, I suppose you curse and damn any muslim or anyone of arab decent that you see on the street regardless if you know the person or not?

ok, since you continually make this claim, perhaps you can back it up with a link where I curse and damn all Muslims.that is the ONLY thing that may be consider using race and that did not start out the thread that was several pages in and I was not specifically calling you or anyone racist, I was stating facts from previous posts you and others have made saying that muslims are inferior people that dont deserve the same rights as other americans, if I was out of line I do apologize but I really dont think I was, just calling a spade a spade since you seem it ok to bad mouth me and deem me an anti american terrorist lover on a daily basis just because I dont believe in your twisted logic and have compassion and respect for others!
Either prove it or retract it. Furthermore, if you don't want to be called a terrorist lover, then stop defending terrorists. A spade is a spade, indeed.

[Smurf-Herder]

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Not sure that is funny........

It isn't.

I'm the guy who's expected to go back and figure out who started what all the time - even though everybody's been contributing to the fray.

And half the time it's a continuation from some other thread. Yet when I just tell everybody to cool it, I get blamed.

It's frustrating as hell.