Obama's Road to Famine & War

[MattAMatt]

If we don't rise up and stop this Joker now, we will be in a depression, close to famine and at war with China, Russia, Syria & Iran by 2012. The Axis of Evil is going to wait for the Cap n Trade to cause our agriculture sector to grow for fuel or not at all and then China (through Venezuela), after it stops importing to the US, will force Brazil (Third Largest Exporter in the World) & Other Central/South American Countries to stop exporting to the US (20% of total distribution). The damage of removing Farm Subsidies coupled with Cap n Trade will exponentialy decrease the percentage of Domestic Ariculture Production and make it very difficult to recover from.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/09s0811.pdf

http://www.fas.usda.gov/country/Braz...d%20Policy.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/us/politics/04farm.html?hp

[Bill Cosby]

If we don't rise up:lmao2: and stop this Joker now, we will be in a depression, close to famine and at war with China, Russia, Syria & Iran by 2012. The Axis of Evil is going to wait for the Cap n Trade to cause our agriculture sector to grow for fuel or not at all and then China (through Venezuela), L]

Just what this place needs another whinny ass cryin about the sky is falln........

[MattAMatt]

I think you would fit in better at a Liberal Forum somewhere.

[mwillman]

I think you would fit in better at a Liberal Forum somewhere.

I think you are confused what this forum is about.

Its not just a circle jerk for fringe right wing nut jobs no matter what your right wing nut jobs think.

[Bill Cosby]

I think you would fit in better at a Liberal Forum somewhere.

ThnX for your advice... Have any recomendations??

[Bill Cosby]

I think you are confused what this forum is about.

Its not just a circle jerk for fringe right wing nut jobs no matter what your right wing nut jobs think.:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Good point...........

[MattAMatt]

The response I read was a typical Liberal insult that was devoid of any facts. A common diversion from debate to insite other typical insulting comments.

Oh Look! It seems to have worked!

[mwillman]

well here's my response, President Obama has done a very good job so far especially when you think of the huge mess left behind by right wing nut jobs.

You analysis of the situation and the President are so wrong as to be laughable.

We will being going through some hard times for a while but that has everything to do with the mess left by the last executive branch and little to do with your ignorant ideology.

[Bill Cosby]

The response I read was a typical fake conserv insult that was devoid of any facts.



& WTF do you call that 500 word sentence you wrote???

You wanna debate some issue & I find it interesting I will gladly ablige but this was simply a rant you posted........

The Axis of Evil...

Is this your own version??

Obama’s Farm Subsidy Cuts Meet Stiff Resistance (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/us/politics/04farm.html?_r=1&hp)

Some of the fiercest critics of farm subsidy programs say the new administration overreached in offering a proposal that could have cut off payment not just to large corporate agribusinesses, but also to medium-sized family farms that might not even be profitable, setting off a huge alarm in the powerful farm lobby.

The White House plan would have prohibited so-called direct payments to farms whose annual gross receipts exceeded $500,000 — a large sum on the surface, but one that did not take account of whether those receipts yielded any real profits.

Within days, the National Farmers Union, which represents roughly 250,000 farm families, forcefully denounced the president’s plan and urged Congress to oppose it. The group’s board also raised the issue at a meeting with officials at the White House

Maybe the anti-welfare folks will be on this like flies on shit..... :lmao2: :lmao2:

Yea right!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sleep:

[mwillman]

Most of those farmers are anti-welfare at least when it comes to people other then themselves.

[MattAMatt]

well here's my response, President Obama has done a very good job so far especially when you think of the huge mess left behind by right wing nut jobs.

You analysis of the situation and the President are so wrong as to be laughable.

We will being going through some hard times for a while but that has everything to do with the mess left by the last executive branch and little to do with your ignorant ideology.

Yet More Insults devoid of Fact.

[mwillman]

I read your post and didn't see anything to debate just a bunch of half arsed assumptions made by a rank amateur who lets his imagination and hate blind him to reality.

If that's an insult then so be it.

[MattAMatt]

& WTF do you call that 500 word sentence you wrote???

You wanna debate some issue & I find it interesting I will gladly ablige but this was simply a rant you posted........

The Axis of Evil...

Is this your own version??

Obama’s Farm Subsidy Cuts Meet Stiff Resistance (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/us/politics/04farm.html?_r=1&hp)

Some of the fiercest critics of farm subsidy programs say the new administration overreached in offering a proposal that could have cut off payment not just to large corporate agribusinesses, but also to medium-sized family farms that might not even be profitable, setting off a huge alarm in the powerful farm lobby.

The White House plan would have prohibited so-called direct payments to farms whose annual gross receipts exceeded $500,000 — a large sum on the surface, but one that did not take account of whether those receipts yielded any real profits.

Within days, the National Farmers Union, which represents roughly 250,000 farm families, forcefully denounced the president’s plan and urged Congress to oppose it. The group’s board also raised the issue at a meeting with officials at the White House

Maybe the anti-welfare folks will be on this like flies on shit..... :lmao2: :lmao2:

Yea right!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sleep:

More Insults and little Fact. WTF are you thinking? You think that the Farmers giving a stiff resistance means anything to this Administration. They can do whatever they want at this point.

The little guy is not the issue (Its the big evil corporations!). "It makes sense to me to begin limiting the multimillion dollar payments that go to some of the largest corporate farms in the country," said Dorgan in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE5226VV20090303

Kill the big producers. Oh Look! I think I just saw a piece of the sky fall. Or was that your ego?

[Bill Cosby]

Most of those farmers are anti-welfare at least when it comes to people other then themselves.

Yep............

They are all about being rugged individuals :lmao2: & anti-welfare for children but fat assed farmers & big corporations are an exception..............:taunt:

So they are not against welfare they are only against certain ppl getting it-->>> Mostly the least able to fight back...

[MattAMatt]

We havent even started talking about agriculture emissions trading and it's impact on the bottom line. So you limit/eliminate subsidies for big corporations and than increase the cost of business. BRILIANT! Carbon Emissions from tilling soil? Moronic!

Say goodbye to Agriculture! "AgraGate has 260,000 acres of 'no-till' and 'strip-till' land under contract in 71 Kansas counties. The company paid out $4.2 million in carbon credit payments to farmers last year at an average price of $4.63 per credit, according to this report by The Salina Journal reporter Tim Unruh. "



http://www.brownfieldnetwork.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=49BCCC35-5056-B82A-D0AE252B6B83D56F

http://www.globalwarmingisreal.com/blog/2009/02/23/us-cap-trade-could-boost-no-till-agriculture/

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:WQJgmK2IaskJ:www.farminstitute.org. au/LiteratureRetrieve.aspx%3FID%3D26611+%22emission+l imit+for+agriculture%22&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[MattAMatt]

I read your post and didn't see anything to debate just a bunch of half arsed assumptions made by a rank amateur who lets his imagination and hate blind him to reality.

If that's an insult then so be it.

Yet more Insults devoid of any fact. If it is so half assed than make a point. Don't spout out insults and have nothing to back up your shallow statements.

[mwillman]

Are you kidding me?
You put in major sky if falling rhetoric and you want an intelligent response.

When you post an intelligent post I will bother to come up with a real reply.
Try leaving out the many useless generalizations and tight ass predictions and I might give you the time of day until then your not debating your spewing vitriol and ideological nonsense.

[MattAMatt]

spewing vitriol and ideological nonsense.

Vitriol - something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism.

Looks to me like you are the one spewing vitriol. Why don't you make an effort to research this topic enough to formulate a valid counter argument.

:taunt:

[MattAMatt]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/18/obama-climate-plan-could-cost-2-trillion/

Conclusion: Agriculture will suffer.

[mwillman]

If you cant make money farming then dont farm.
Welfare for farmers is not the solution.

Tell me why should we give farmers welfare but not to the poor else were.

[MattAMatt]

Because we have to sustain ourselves in the event of War. Unless you would prefer to starve for a few months while we wait for the sector to grow enough to provide us with food. The market has consilidated into large corporations and now we want to rais their taxes and get rid of subsidies?

"50,000 farming operations now account for 75 percent of the US Food production. Fatal Harvest: The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture. Edited by Andrew Kimbrell. 5 companies control 75 percent of the global vegetable seed market."

"- American farmers, on average, receive only about 20 cents of each food dollar spent. The remainder goes toward the expenses of processing, packing and distribution. Farmers who sell food direct to local customers, on the other hand, receive the full value for their product cutting out the costs to middlemen. Eating Local: A Matter of Integrity." John Ikerd

- “More than one million acres of U.S. farmland is lost each year to residential and commercial development. The loss may seem small in relation to the total of more than 950 million acres of farmland, but an acre lost to development may mean an acre lost forever from food production.” Eating Local: A Matter of Integrity. John Ikerd

- Between 1987 and 1992 America lost an average of 32,500 farms per year, 80% were family run farms. Fatal Harvest: The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture. Edited by Andrew Kimbrell.

[mwillman]

Hey like you republicans are so fond of saying, get private help, get loans, save your money. Why should the government be taking care of Farmers and letting the poor starve.

[MattAMatt]

Hey like you republicans are so fond of saying, get private help, get loans, save your money. Why should the government be taking care of Farmers and letting the poor starve.

The #1 role of government is to protect it's citizens. Subsidising Agriculture maintains our ability to provide enough food to feed the US. If we are unable to do that, we are vulnerable. Visit this link http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/09s0811.pdf and understand that we have to be able to make up for a majority of the agricultural imports in a time of war (especialy global conflict) because nations turn inward to protect themselves.

[mwillman]

So, what your saying is free enterprise isnt good enough to feed the people of this nation?

I don't agree, giving farms welfare is not protecting anyone but the farmers. IF you cant make a profit on farms I'm sure someone else can. What happened to your free market mind set, oh that's right that only counts when its tax money that's not going to you.

[Smurf-Herder]

I think you are confused what this forum is about.

Its not just a circle jerk for fringe right wing nut jobs no matter what your right wing nut jobs think.

I know. It was intended as a fringe left-wing circle jerk.

That's the first impression I got when I joined - days on end of debating the 911 conspiracy crowd.

[mwillman]

I know. It was intended as a fringe left-wing circle jerk.

That's the first impression I got when I joined - days on end of debating the 911 conspiracy crowd.

Hey I am all for some form of balance, to bad the right thinks anything left of Attila the Hun is socialist.

[Smurf-Herder]

If you cant make money farming then dont farm.
Welfare for farmers is not the solution.

Tell me why should we give farmers welfare but not to the poor else were.

It's not welfare to stop stupid over-taxation just to fill the pockets of the over-spenders in DC.

If you have your way - YOU, as well as the rest of us, will pay the price in increased food costs.

Don't you get it?

All these people you want to "pay for somehow being evil" will just pass the costs onto us.

[Smurf-Herder]

Hey I am all for some form of balance, to bad the right thinks anything left of Attila the Hun is socialist.

I don't see how.

So you guys see anything right of Obama as nuts.

Balance includes even the extremes on both sides.

[mwillman]

Hey I am all for cutting spending, lets stop farm subsidies, lets cut back on military spending and fix the medical system. You and I agree that over taxation is an issue the problem lies in I want tax payer money going to help tax payers and you want it to go to other things.

[MattAMatt]

So, what your saying is free enterprise isnt good enough to feed the people of this nation?

I don't agree, giving farms welfare is not protecting anyone but the farmers. IF you cant make a profit on farms I'm sure someone else can. What happened to your free market mind set, oh that's right that only counts when its tax money that's not going to you.

We have to sustain ourselves in times of war. Agriculture does not grow overnight & neither does meat.

[mwillman]

So if we are perpetually at war you will perpetually get welfare from us.

No I dont like that theory. I think we can feed ourselves without giving huge payoffs to farmers and aggro business.

Make a fair profit and run your farm like a business and you should be fine, its called a rainy day fund and every farmer should have one.

IF the farm industry is having a difficult time because of natural disaster then I can see helping but they get huge subsidies every year no matter what and that is nothing more then welfare.

[MattAMatt]

They can only turn a 20% profit with all the regulation and taxes. Their cost of doing business is 10 times that of anywhere else because you Libs keep expanding government. We have to sustain them.

It's obvious that you did not read anything I wrote or any of the links that I posted. So I will stop now because you are vitriolic and are attempting to sustain your own shallow ideological beliefs.

I got them earlier in this tread. Kind of liked the idea, so I stole it.

Ta Ta!

[mwillman]

OK lets cut the unnecessary regulation (food safety is important)
as far as taxes go I am more then willing to look at the numbers and make sure no one is being over taxed but that doesn't mean no taxes and it doesn't mean free money either.

[mwillman]

20% profit is pretty good I wouldn't be complaining about that.

Now you have reverted to blaming others while still begging for welfare.

Its sad, you don't want to pay taxes that help others but your think its a necessity to give it to your people. Do you even know what hypocrisy means.

[MattAMatt]

It's obvious that I am just waisting my time here. Good Day Sr

[mwillman]

If you expected to change my mind then you might as well go because so far your arguments just haven't held much water.

[Bill Cosby]

They can only turn a 20% profit with all the regulation and taxes. Their cost of doing business is 10 times that of anywhere else because you Libs keep expanding government. We have to sustain them.


Ta Ta!

They can only turn a 20% profit........ Someone grab me a crying towel here...:rolleyes:


So tell us why We have to??????

the "libs" were not running the gov the last 8 years, :rolleyes: someone else was & somehow it fucking expanded on it's own....... :lmao2: :lmao2:

Gawd I hate when that happenZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ROdger Right]

So your defense to the present extrene growth of government is that they did it too.

Fucking idiots....

[MattAMatt]

The Bum Rap on Biofuels
American Thinker | 5-13-08 | Herbert Meyer
Posted on 05/14/2008 3:59:06 AM PDT by Renfield
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2015711/posts

Campaign to vilify ethanol revealed
ethanol producer Magazine | May 16, 2008 | By Kris Bevill
Posted on 05/17/2008 9:22:13 AM PDT by Kevin J waldroup
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2017389/posts

[mwillman]

So your defense to the present extrene growth of government is that they did it too.

Fucking idiots....

I think you are the fucking idiot for calling what we have today "extrene growth of government" First its far from extrene and second there will be cuts they just happen to be in places where you dont mind us spending huge amounts of unnecessary money namely on the largest military in the history of the world.

[MattAMatt]

I think you are the fucking idiot for calling what we have today "extrene growth of government" First its far from extrene and second there will be cuts they just happen to be in places where you dont mind us spending huge amounts of unnecessary money namely on the largest military in the history of the world.

Yeah! We don't need it. Although China just brieched our Electric Grid. I guess they just want to help us make it more efficient..... :banghead:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123914805204099085.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Isnt all of this change great? :taunt:

[mwillman]

I never said we dont need a military. I just said we don't need to keep feeding the growth of the largest military in the history of the fucking world. We spend more on the military then the rest of the world put together.

You guys are so binary, its not this so then its that. There are plenty of in between's that can fix the problems we face but then you cant see anything but your two sides.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

This post and the 100's of others on here represent one thing, Republicans and cons losing their minds over the fact that we have a president that is willing to go out and try and do good in the world instead of pissing of the world and getting us more enemies, which is what this isolationist mentality of board members is doing. Obama is very proactive, I mean what did Bush do in his first term at this point???? How many press conferences did he hold as opposed to the amount of vacations he took? Obama is visiting allies and former allies to try and smooth over our very tarnished rep in the world and trying to bridge up some divides, what is so wrong with that?

[MattAMatt]

Kum-ba-ya! BS!

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Kum-ba-ya! BS!
typical idiot response from the right...you saw what this mentality got us so why continue the holier than thou...piss of the world attitude?

[MattAMatt]

While your arguing with me China is hacking into our Energy Grid because they know we have a panzy in the whitehouse.

[mwillman]

yea that's it.
I forgot we are supported to live in fear.
That way you can keep getting your farm subsidies.
The big bad Chinese are out to get us even though your side basically sold half the nation to China.

You guys are so funny.

[MattAMatt]

Your side pitts classes against each other so they can pass unconstitutional laws & increase taxes on the so called rich. Your side uses a useless lieing media to diseminate fear about completely false situations so they can destroy the lives of innocent citizens like Joe the plumber. Your side holds high level meetings with Communist Militants like Castro & holds them up in the highest of esteem. Your side goes against the world and implaments protectionist policies, isolates China, Rusia, Brazil & India in the process and than goes and appologizes for AMerica. Your side should be appologizing for its Arrogance! Not America's!

Your side has passed a budget that will sell us out for the rest of our lives.

:mad:

[mwillman]

Sucks to be you.

You must realize that I couldnt disagree with you more.

Joe the Plumber was not a plumber and I'm pretty sure his life isn't destroyed.
The media is owned by wealthy republicans not democrats, look it up.

We have 8 years of cowboy diplomacy to make up for, just because your a hateful isolationist doesn't mean the rest of have to be.

[Smurf-Herder]

Hey I am all for cutting spending, lets stop farm subsidies, lets cut back on military spending and fix the medical system. You and I agree that over taxation is an issue the problem lies in I want tax payer money going to help tax payers and you want it to go to other things.


I want taxpayers to keep more of their own money, and only pay for what what keeps the price on the shelves down, when it comes to subsidies.

Hey BTW, if we do get Solar and Wind power going as the alternative energy sources Obama wants, don't you realize that those forms of energy require heavy subsidies to be profitable? Do you realize how heavily subsidized Corn-based biofuels are?

[Smurf-Herder]

So if we are perpetually at war you will perpetually get welfare from us.

No I dont like that theory. I think we can feed ourselves without giving huge payoffs to farmers and aggro business.

Make a fair profit and run your farm like a business and you should be fine, its called a rainy day fund and every farmer should have one.

IF the farm industry is having a difficult time because of natural disaster then I can see helping but they get huge subsidies every year no matter what and that is nothing more then welfare.

What about the hard time farmers are getting because of all the competition from imports?

[Smurf-Herder]

I never said we dont need a military. I just said we don't need to keep feeding the growth of the largest military in the history of the fucking world. We spend more on the military then the rest of the world put together.

You guys are so binary, its not this so then its that. There are plenty of in between's that can fix the problems we face but then you cant see anything but your two sides.


If that's true, then we must also be spending more on entitlement programs than the rest of the world put together.

Federal entitlement programs more costly
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid consume nearly half of budget
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10609044/

[mwillman]

I find it hard to believe that local farmers cant beat the prices of products that are being shipped in from far away. I'm sure there are a few examples of that but I dont think its true for most agro business.

But you do make a good point about the trade deficit this nation is dealing with and I have no easy answers for that one but I dont think it justifies the huge subsidies that are going to much of aggro business. I will say I am far more sympathetic to smaller farms and farmers. What I have a major issue with are the subsidies ending up in the hands of Park place millionaires.

Most farming is done as big business these days and I dont support subsidizing large mature industries.

[mwillman]

If that's true, then we must also be spending more on entitlement programs than the rest of the world put together.

Federal entitlement programs more costly
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid consume nearly half of budget
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10609044/


We can solve that problem by fixing the medical system. By the way it was Bush who gave us the no bid pill plan that is really bankrupting medicare.

As for Social Security, it is a great program and worth the cost.

These programs help Americans specifically Americans who paid taxes most of their lives. I am sure none of you will be turning down your social security checks. You want to save some money on that then lets stop giving rich people social security if they dont need it.

That all being said its still true that we spend more on the military yearly then the rest of the world put together. One of our Aircraft carriers has more aircraft then most nations air forces. We have ten of them and its growing.
that is just one of thousands of examples of how huge our military spending is we are talking over half a trillion a year and thats not including the war.

[Smurf-Herder]

I find it hard to believe that local farmers cant beat the prices of products that are being shipped in from far away. I'm sure there are a few examples of that but I dont think its true for most agro business.

But you do make a good point about the trade deficit this nation is dealing with and I have no easy answers for that one but I dont think it justifies the huge subsidies that are going to much of aggro business. I will say I am far more sympathetic to smaller farms and farmers. What I have a major issue with are the subsidies ending up in the hands of Park place millionaires.

Most farming is done as big business these days and I dont support subsidizing large mature industries.

First, a large part of fertilizer manufacturing involves petrochemicals - which have risen steeply in cost when the oil started going up.

And second, most countries subsidize their exports to gain greater market share; giving their farmers an unfair advantage.

[MattAMatt]

Or they just dump on the market.

[mwillman]

I'm not interested in lame excuses.

Everyone needs food, it is a money making venture if you need subsidies its because your not doing it right.

[Smurf-Herder]

We can solve that problem by fixing the medical system. By the way it was Bush who gave us the no bid pill plan that is really bankrupting medicare.

As for Social Security, it is a great program and worth the cost.

These programs help Americans specifically Americans who paid taxes most of their lives. I am sure none of you will be turning down your social security checks. You want to save some money on that then lets stop giving rich people social security if they dont need it.

That all being said its still true that we spend more on the military yearly then the rest of the world put together. One of our Aircraft carriers has more aircraft then most nations air forces. We have ten of them and its growing.
that is just one of thousands of examples of how huge our military spending is we are talking over half a trillion a year and thats not including the war.

Those entltlements will cost nearly 100% of the entire budget within the next 20 years.

And how much US power overseas has deterred wars from happening, just by our presence?

Unless you want China and Russia to control the sea lanes.

[MattAMatt]

Hey Smurf Hurder! Looks Like Mwillman had a rough upbringing. Do you think his inability to debate is manefested from his childhood?

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm not interested in lame excuses.

Everyone needs food, it is a money making venture if you need subsidies its because your not doing it right.

Okay then. If not subsidies, then that means higher food costs - that would be "doing it right", by your thinking.

[mwillman]

Save me the bullshit.

I took many years of Math and I find your numbers to be off to say the least.
Saying helping people will bankrupt us is not a good argument. Especial when its the people paying the money to begin with that its supposed to help.

First off Social Security is doing just fine.

As for medicare your right we need to fix the medical system. It will save us huge amounts of money so tell your republican brethren to stop stone walling any attempts to fix it.

[Smurf-Herder]

Hey Smurf Hurder! Looks Like Mwillman had a rough upbringing. Do you think his inability to debate is manefested from his childhood?

No.

I think some are still in their childhood, from some posts I see across the board.

I'm speaking generally here, not specifically about mwillman.

[Smurf-Herder]

Save me the bullshit.

I took many years of Math and I find your numbers to be off to say the least.
Saying helping people will bankrupt us is not a good argument. Especial when its the people paying the money to begin with that its supposed to help.

First off Social Security is doing just fine.

As for medicare your right we need to fix the medical system. It will save us huge amounts of money so tell your republican brethren to stop stone walling any attempts to fix it.

Everybody's been screaming that Social Security was a national crisis - until recently. But nothing has changed. It's still a deficit-running slush fund for the over-spenders in DC.

[mwillman]

Nice the way you let some people single people out and not others.

Such strong ethical behavior really strengthens the way people see your views.

I don't need to single you guys out because your already a dieing minority.

[Smurf-Herder]

Nice the way you let some people single people out and not others.

Such strong ethical behavior really strengthens the way people see your views.

I don't need to single you guys out because your already a dieing minority.


I wanted to make a point - about both sides, in general sometimes.

I like to come here and discuss the actual issues as a member when I can. Sometimes I feel like all I do is "check the children". (Remember that from the movie When a Stranger Calls?)

But anyway, I know we're all only human.

[MattAMatt]

Actually Barry is creating a new & improved GOP & its on the rise in a big way.

[Smurf-Herder]

Actually Barry is creating a new & improved GOP & its on the rise in a big way.


The GOP can only be as good as the people running for office, the amount of restraint the MSM exercises in promoting propaganda; and how reliable any election polls and results can be from here on out, with the Dems and ACORN in full battle mode.

[MattAMatt]

You mean Obama's Acorn?

[Smurf-Herder]

You mean Obama's Acorn?

They're one of the groups "partnering" to do the 2010 Census .......... as well as "the usual". They've got access to big bucks now.

[mwillman]

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh

Everyone beware Acorn is coming to get you.

HAHAHAHA

You guys are so funny.

[Smurf-Herder]

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh

Everyone beware Acorn is coming to get you.

HAHAHAHA

You guys are so funny.

The bankers who were intimidated by ACORN organized protests didn't think it was funny.

[GetAClue]

So if we are perpetually at war you will perpetually get welfare from us.

No I dont like that theory. I think we can feed ourselves without giving huge payoffs to farmers and aggro business.

Make a fair profit and run your farm like a business and you should be fine, its called a rainy day fund and every farmer should have one.

IF the farm industry is having a difficult time because of natural disaster then I can see helping but they get huge subsidies every year no matter what and that is nothing more then welfare.

It is obvious that you have never been around a farm. Farmers are at the mercy of the market. They don't get to set the price of their products; they have to accept the price given by the market. Markets are driven by the economic principles of supply and demand. During the fall harvest, because of the amount of product being produced, the grain prices tend to fall sharply. After the farmer has just gone a year since his last paycheck, they are generally not in a position to hold out for higher prices.

This was part of the undoing to the small family farms. They did not have the financial resources to be able to sustain themselves until prices increased. However, large corporate farms usually have the financing available to allow them to hold their product until prices begin to go up and are able to make more on their harvest.

The original intent of the first stimulus payments to farmers was for the government to pay farmers to NOT put in corps on a portion of their land in an effort to cut back supply and force prices up. Farmers had become their own worst enemies by being more productive and efficient. And like all government programs, it worked to fulfill its intent but had a negative effect on the market as a whole driving up food prices and thus inflation that was more detrimental to the farmers than the lower crop prices were in the first place.

Now, as much as it pains me, I do have to agree that we should NOT be subsidizing farmers. But at the same time, we need to get away from all of the unnecessary regulations and added expense placed on the industry. It is already a very expensive and risky proposition to run a farm.

But the cutting off of subsidies should not end at farmers. We should not be subsidizing ANYONE and that includes the entitlement programs.

[MattAMatt]

Be very carefull. What if we can't produce enough food to supply domestic demand?

[Hog Trash]

Wait a minute!-Wait a minute!-Wait a minute!......Obama promised peace and a chicken in every pot!

Nonbelievers are such fools who apparently have no faith in our illustrious leader, Barack Hussein Obama. :bowdown::hero: