Gates to Gut F-22

[The_Limit]

Just heard it on the news. Apparently, there are 183 F-22's. It will stop at 187, only four more. Too bad for the F-22, it is an incredible fighter.

I remember a while back I read that Lockheed Martin said that if they gutted the F-22, upwards of 90,000 jobs would be at stake. I haven't read anything as dire as that claim from from LM today, probably because F-35 production is going to be expedited.

If anyone can find reaction by LM spokesmen, I'd appreciate it.

================================================== =================

Defense Secretary Robert Gates is proposing deep cuts to some big weapons programs such as the F-22 fighter jet as the Pentagon takes a hard look at how it spends money. Gates announced a broad range of cuts Monday to weapons spending, saying he plans to cut programs ranging from a new helicopter for the president to ending production of the $140 billion F-22 fighter jet.

Outlining a $534 billion budget for 2009 that will slash funds for major weapons programs, Gates said Monday his moves amount to an "unorthodox approach" that would shift spending goals to concentrate on "wars we are in today and scenarios for the years ahead."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idcsRSLw6_ppJCceAZXPgvBEfojgD97D5UDO1

[Frankg]

Here's a pretty interesting forum discussing the F22 vs the F35
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-3168.html

One thing I don't understand is why Gates wants to cut missle defense programs.

He does have an uphill battle in both houses of congress in that no congressmen/women want to put voters out of work

[Bill Cosby]

Just heard it on the news. Apparently, there are 183 F-22's. It will stop at 187, only four more. Too bad for the F-22, it is an incredible fighter.

I remember a while back I read that Lockheed Martin said that if they gutted the F-22, upwards of 90,000 jobs would be at stake. I haven't read anything as dire as that claim from from LM today, probably because F-35 production is going to be expedited.

If anyone can find reaction by LM spokesmen, I'd appreciate it.

================================================== =================

Defense Secretary Robert Gates is proposing deep cuts to some big weapons programs such as the F-22 fighter jet as the Pentagon takes a hard look at how it spends money. Gates announced a broad range of cuts Monday to weapons spending, saying he plans to cut programs ranging from a new helicopter for the president to ending production of the $140 billion F-22 fighter jet.

Outlining a $534 billion budget for 2009 that will slash funds for major weapons programs, Gates said Monday his moves amount to an "unorthodox approach" that would shift spending goals to concentrate on "wars we are in today and scenarios for the years ahead."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idcsRSLw6_ppJCceAZXPgvBEfojgD97D5UDO1


Props to gates............. About time..............:thumbsup:

[doctordog]

Props to gates............. About time..............:thumbsup:

Props? are you kidding? 90,000 lose their jobs and props to Gates?:talktothehand:

[Bill Cosby]

SO you cry about the make work & yet wanna waste billions & billions for these ppl to build for a war of the type we fought in ww2..............

[doctordog]

SO you cry about the make work & yet wanna waste billions & billions for these ppl to build for a war of the type we fought in ww2..............

the F22 is still a leader in airplanes. At least they are working and not using the money as bonuses to go to the Carribean.

[Bill Cosby]

You know my views on this so I am not going to waste our time going over it.......

I would rather see the money spent here on helping Americans instead of wasting it like this.......:)

[doctordog]

You know my views on this so I am not going to waste our time going over it.......

I would rather see the money spent here on helping Americans instead of wasting it like this.......:)

why take from one working set of people willing to work and give to another set unwilling to work.;)

[Bill Cosby]

why take from one working set of people willing to work and give to another set unwilling to work.;)

Why do you assume they are unwilling to work??

Smurf & his kids could use med coverge. he is working I assume.... ;)

[doctordog]

Why do you assume they are unwilling to work??

Smurf & his kids could use med coverge. he is working I assume.... ;)

Point taken, some the 90k that will lose their jobs will have kids that need as well.

[disrupter]

maybe he wants to cut missile defense . . . . because it doesn't actually work?

What a radical idea that is at the Pentagon.

'If it doesn't work we won't squander tens or hundreds of billions on it."

Those guys at the Pentagon must be getting really crazy.

[Independent Harry]

There will not be 90.000 jobs lost if the F22 program is cut. Lockheed only employs 180k, half the company woudl get cut over one program. I find that hard to believe.

[Smurf-Herder]

maybe he wants to cut missile defense . . . . because it doesn't actually work?

What a radical idea that is at the Pentagon.

'If it doesn't work we won't squander tens or hundreds of billions on it."

Those guys at the Pentagon must be getting really crazy.

It has a around a 90% success rate. That's good enough for me.

[mwillman]

hahaha

where did you get those numbers Smurf.

The missile defense system has never worked.
everytime they have tested it it failed and that was even when they tried to cheat.

[Smurf-Herder]

hahaha

where did you get those numbers Smurf.

The missile defense system has never worked.
everytime they have tested it it failed and that was even when they tried to cheat.

Now I know you're an ignorant fool. :talktothehand:

You do know that we already have 18 Aegis ships deployed with intercept capability, right?

Go to the Missile Defense Agency website and get an education:

http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/html/mdalink.html

[Hog Trash]

You know my views on this so I am not going to waste our time going over it.......

I would rather see the money spent here on helping Americans instead of wasting it like this.......:)Originally Posted by Bill Cosby
Why do you assume they are unwilling to work??

Smurf & his kids could use med coverge. he is working I assume.... Point taken, some the 90k that will lose their jobs will have kids that need as well.Some people would rather have government play nurse-maid to bums, loosers and illegal aliens than to maintain national security and keep productive Americans working.

It's a marxist thing which are nothing more than liberals on steroids.

[GetAClue]

maybe he wants to cut missile defense . . . . because it doesn't actually work?

What a radical idea that is at the Pentagon.

'If it doesn't work we won't squander tens or hundreds of billions on it."

Those guys at the Pentagon must be getting really crazy.

The Atomic Bomb didn't work at first either. It took 3-4 years and Billions of dollars to get it to fruition. Some estimates say it saved 1 million U.S. military lives by not having to invade Japan. That was a very good investment in my book.

[mwillman]

Now I know you're an ignorant fool. :talktothehand:

You do know that we already have 18 Aegis ships deployed with intercept capability, right?

Go to the Missile Defense Agency website and get an education:

http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/html/mdalink.html

I am talking about the very specific part of the missile shield that is actually supposed to be able to hit and destroy the missiles.

You are the ignorant fuck if you buy the propaganda without paying attention to the real news. Again if you bothered to look it up you would see that missile shields are still Science Fiction.

Again Aegis cruisers have great targeting radar and are great against planes and ships but the part that makes it a missile shield at least for ballistic missiles doesnt work.

Now go do some homework and shut your ignorant pie hole.

[Mr. Blue]

I'd rather see us cut spending on pointless foreign obligations before weapon systems, but I think it's time we pull back a little, take our toys home, and reduce spending of the military and let other countries take some of the burden.

[mwillman]

I'd rather see us cut spending on pointless foreign obligations before weapon systems, but I think it's time we pull back a little, take our toys home, and reduce spending of the military and let other countries take some of the burden.

I agree with you, and this is somewhere I disagree with President Obama, he is stuck in the status quo on this subject.

[Mr. Blue]

I agree with you, and this is somewhere I disagree with President Obama, he is stuck in the status quo on this subject.

I tend to expand this a little further than most, because I'm still not sure why we have as many troops in Germany, Japan, etc...I think we're over extending ourselves and seeing little benefit from it.

[The Professor]

apollo 1 burned up

america didn't QUIT

apollo 11 put one small step on the MOON

it's spelled R&D

partisans prefer an alternate lettering---JFK

cliff

[mwillman]

I tend to expand this a little further than most, because I'm still not sure why we have as many troops in Germany, Japan, etc...I think we're over extending ourselves and seeing little benefit from it.

A big reason we have kept troops there is because they have become a part of the various nations economies. Germany makes billions off of the troops we keep there and it gives us a foot hold of threat to hang over other nations like Russia and the the Middle East. We are an empire in all but name and an empire needs to keep the threat up or it losses status.

[kres24GT]

Good news, money is better spent on invisibility, unmanned combat vehicles, and those bombs that turn the enemies gay.

[Bill Cosby]

Some people would rather have government play nurse-maid to bums, loosers and illegal aliens than to maintain national security and keep productive Americans working.

It's a marxist thing which are nothing more than liberals on steroids.

So says who??? The guy that was once on top of the food chain??? :lmao2: :lmao2:

Keep productive Americans working.....lol Of which I guess you are one???

Keep um working building bombs & military bases around the globe while kids in this country go w/out............

The usa has the highest percentage of kids living in poverty in the industrialized world................ Small cost for bases in 150 other countries I guess....

Now american pride & security your ass up to those kids & the 43 million w/out healthcare.......... I am sure they are just dying to hear your dumb shit...

Oh & have a nice day.......... ;)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a16/astrogyrl/large_peace_symbol.gif

[Bill Cosby]

I'd rather see us cut spending on pointless foreign obligations before weapon systems, but I think it's time we pull back a little, take our toys home, and reduce spending of the military and let other countries take some of the burden.

Long, long past due IMO................

[The Professor]

america's poor are richer than the richest in fully half the nations of the world

poor in america means only one beat up old car

and air conditioning only when it's really, really hot

poor in america has a large screen tv

cliff

[Bill Cosby]

america's poor are richer than the richest in fully half the nations of the world

poor in america means only one beat up old car

and air conditioning only when it's really, really hot

poor in america has a large screen tv

cliff

Yea I know & I guess if you had your way they would be even poorer…

Perhaps that makes you feel better about yourself…. Makes you more of an American……

Most folks would think it makes you more of an asshole……..

[The Professor]

who cares

who cares about you

who cares about me

try to get past personalities

they're for marcia! marcia! marcia!

we were talking about america's poor

who sit in their air conditioned crummy apts

watch their flat screens

and order pizza delivery

if they're in new york, they have their dope delivered

actually, if i had my way, they'd work two jobs, 60 hours a week

like i did for 10 years, no big, it was very easy

very few who work 60 hours in america are poor

it just takes a little sacrifice

and responsibility

[Bill Cosby]

who cares

who cares about you

who cares about me

try to get past personalities

they're for marcia! marcia! marcia!

we were talking about america's poor

who sit in their air conditioned crummy apts

watch their flat screens

and order pizza delivery

if they're in new york, they have their dope delivered

Yea you really sound like an expert on the topic.......

You get pizza delivered to your trailer park???

Sounds like your not upset your fucking jealous.. You prob go to work every damn day & got nothing to show for it......

Stop being a hater & grow up.......

Putting others down is not gonna help you one bit..............

[The Professor]

putting others down

LOLOLOL!

[Hog Trash]

So says who??? The guy that was once on top of the food chain??? :lmao2: :lmao2:Says me and still at the top!

Keep productive Americans working.....lol Of which I guess you are one???Hog is 58 and been retired since 2003....Livin Lazy you might say....You work, I play.

Keep um working building bombs & military bases around the globe while kids in this country go w/out............

The usa has the highest percentage of kids living in poverty in the industrialized world................ Small cost for bases in 150 other countries I guess....

Now american pride & security your ass up to those kids & the 43 million w/out healthcare.......... I am sure they are just dying to hear your dumb shit...

Oh & have a nice day.......... ;)
90% of those kids you speak of have shit for parents and it's sad.

But America has the fattest, healthiest poor people in the world, barr none!

[Bill Cosby]

90% of those kids you speak of have shit for parents and it's sad.

But America has the fattest, healthiest poor people in the world, barr none!

So then it is ok for those sad poor kids to continue as they are.........lol........ It is sad but not sad enough to do anything about..... NOW THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY SAD

They are the fattest & the healthiest…….WTF???? That is a pretty stupid statement….

If they are over weight, obese, fat they are not healthy………. :taunt:

Maybe while you're beheading, cutting off hands & herding them all off to the penitentiary you can hand them some fliers on healthy eating…

[Hog Trash]

So then it is ok for those sad poor kids to continue as they are.........lol........ It is sad but not sad enough to do anything about..... NOW THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY SAD

They are the fattest & the healthiest…….WTF???? That is a pretty stupid statement….

If they are over weight, obese, fat they are not healthy………. :taunt:

Maybe while you're beheading, cutting off hands & herding them all off to the penitentiary you can hand them some fliers on healthy eating…The poor little kids get free housing, food, clothing, education and healthcare.

What do you suggest America does for these poor children beyond that, sister teresa?

[Bill Cosby]

The poor little kids get free housing, food, clothing, education and healthcare.

What do you suggest America does for these poor children beyond that, sister teresa?

LOL..... They prob could use a good sister............

Lets see now what they get....

Projects???

Wow that education system must be nice........ Why I bet almost as good as the skewZ you went to.......

Healthcare???

There are 43 million + Americans w/out any & most of them are kids........

You got yours so fuck them........

You would rather your tax dollars went to bomb strangers then to help americans, even kids..........

You hate america....... You hate Americans..........

Oh you forgot they give them playgrounds to........ http://www.danhagerman.com/images/South%20Bronx%20Playground.jpg

[Hog Trash]

LOL..... They prob could use a good sister............

Lets see now what they get....

Projects???

Wow that education system must be nice........ Why I bet almost as good as the skewZ you went to.......

Healthcare???

There are 43 million + Americans w/out any & most of them are kids........

You got yours so fuck them........

You would rather your tax dollars went to bomb strangers then to help americans, even kids..........

You hate america....... You hate Americans..........

Oh you forgot they give them playgrounds to........http://www.danhagerman.com/images/South%20Bronx%20Playground.jpgI was born and raised there....I lived the first 13 years of my life in a shithole ghetto.

My family stayed off drugs, worked hard, scraped, saved, sacrificed and moved us out of there....Nobody gave us shit!

The people who stay there are lowlife drug addicts and lazy useless bottom feeding scum suckers.

Those bums lay around all day on their lazy asses stealing and waiting for somebody to give them something.

The assistance they recieve is for their children because they don't give a fuck about them.

You still didn't answer my question?...What do you suggest people do for them?...What have you done besides bitch and whine?

[Bill Cosby]

http://www.ptees.com/store/images/Talk%20About%20Myself%20Detail%20Images/Talk%20About%20Myself%20Detail.pngI was born and raised there....I lived the first 13 years of my life in a shithole ghetto.

My family stayed off drugs, worked hard, scraped, saved, sacrificed and moved us out of there....Nobody gave us shit!

The people who stay there are lowlife drug addicts and lazy useless bottom feeding scum suckers.

Those bums lay around all day on their lazy asses stealing and waiting for somebody to give them something.

The assistance they recieve is for their children because they don't give a fuck about them.

You still didn't answer my question?...What do you suggest people do for them?...What have you done besides bitch and whine?

Sure that happens…. SO because the parents are assholes we should do nothing for the children………???? Sorry son, I told yea, that is not working for me……..

First & foremost is education… (Schools, not penitentiaries) If you really been there you know damn well how bad things are & the schools……….

It may be to late for a lot of these adults but I am not for just writing off the kids. I am for giving them opportunities to go somewhere besides prison…

& I aint apologizes for that.. & you shouldn't either

[Hog Trash]

Sure that happens…. SO because the parents are assholes we should do nothing for the children………???? Sorry son, I told yea, that is not working for me……..

First & foremost is education… (Schools, not penitentiaries) If you really been there you know damn well how bad things are & the schools……….

It may be to late for a lot of these adults but I am not for just writing off the kids. I am for giving them opportunities to go somewhere besides prison…

& I aint apologizes for that.. & you shouldn't eitherHmmm?...You still didn't answer my question?...Hmmm?...Wonder what's up with that? :confused: :dunno: I believe I have finally figured it out?

I think what we have here is a typical liberal who doesn't personally want to do anything, just wants to bitch, whine and complain untill somebody else does something.

[Bill Cosby]

Hmmm?...You still didn't answer my question?...Hmmm?...Wonder what's up with that? :confused: :dunno: I believe .

Well I think you can't be that dumb but I could be wrong....:dunno:

Think what you wish. Thinking will do your game some good........;)

[Mr. Blue]

A big reason we have kept troops there is because they have become a part of the various nations economies. Germany makes billions off of the troops we keep there and it gives us a foot hold of threat to hang over other nations like Russia and the the Middle East. We are an empire in all but name and an empire needs to keep the threat up or it losses status.

I've said it a few times on this forum, we've engaged in ideological Imperialism...which doesn't really give us any tangible returns. Even a hint of scaling back our troops in say Germany, would probably wreck their economy...so, you have to look at it and go...wait...so...what about our own economy?

We seriously either need to pull back or just go all out imperialism....this waffling between the two just isn't really working.

[mwillman]

I agree to a certain extent, I do think we need to pull out most of our troops world wide. We are not the worlds police and the huge costs on this country and its people make it much harder for us to compete on the world stage.

If we stopped corporate welfare and we stoped outsourcing our military we wouldn't have 1/3 the deficit we have now. Fix the medical system and we could be back to surpluses then tax cuts would make sense.

[Mr. Blue]

I agree to a certain extent, I do think we need to pull out most of our troops world wide. We are not the worlds police and the huge costs on this country and its people make it much harder for us to compete on the world stage.

If we stopped corporate welfare and we stoped outsourcing our military we wouldn't have 1/3 the deficit we have now. Fix the medical system and we could be back to surpluses then tax cuts would make sense.

Whenever I mention that I believe we should shrink the size of government, this is the first area I think of, and maybe the only area we need to address because it's the most blaring example of America selling it's future off with what seems to be very little benefit to us.

[The Professor]

if you're worried about OUR economy, you must be a bit bummed about president bigears pulling e-verify from PLAN PELSOI, ie, what was sposed to be HIS stimulus, which he turned over to HER to earmark and pork barrel to LOL! levels, putting immediate LIE to obama's claim to be post partisan change agent, stranger in a strange land, his reputation for being ABOVE IT scotched world wide in a month, mainly thru passage of PLAN PELOSI

no politician now looks more ORDINARY than bigears

but if you're annoyed about foreign economies growing on our largesse, it should bother you that e-verify got YANKED so that "stimulus" money which doesn't exist can be paid out in peso's to illegals working construction to send back home to stimulate el presidente calderon's economy insteada ours

the pelosi plan came in at SEVEN HUNDRED AND 80 BILLION dollars, pre interest

which is more than we've WASTED cumulatively in 50 years stationing our men and women in deutschland since adolf offed himself in the bunker on april 30, 1945

big picture

substance

not ideology

not idealism

pragmatics

SEVEN HUNDRED AND 80 BILLION dollars

big picture

[mwillman]

I can respect that, I am not for a welfare state nor am I for an imperial state.

I do think we should have a very strong education system and I believe in having a safety net for children, the elderly, and the mentally and physically challenged.

I think we need good regulations so that we can have a free market where everyone can compete and we dont allow things like oligopolies, or monopolies to strangle fair competition .

We should separate investment banks from commercial banks and we should outlaw derivatives like they were for most of our history.

Lastly I support improving our medical system so that we are not spending such huge amounts of money on decent medical coverage. What we have costs to much gives to much power to the insurance companies and leaves to many people without coverage which ends up costing the tax payer more then it would if we had a single payer system. From a business perspective it will decrease the cost of hiring people and that will create more hiring.

IF we decreased military spending and fixed the medical system we would do alot to fix the huge deficits we are facing right now.

[Mr. Blue]

if you're worried about OUR economy, you must be a bit bummed about president bigears pulling e-verify from PLAN PELSOI, ie, what was sposed to be HIS stimulus, which he turned over to HER to earmark and pork barrel to LOL! levels, putting immediate LIE to obama's claim to be post partisan change agent, stranger in a strange land, his reputation for being ABOVE IT scotched world wide in a month, mainly thru passage of PLAN PELOSI

no politician now looks more ORDINARY than bigears

but if you're annoyed about foreign economies growing on our largesse, it should bother you that e-verify got YANKED so that "stimulus" money which doesn't exist can be paid out in peso's to illegals working construction to send back home to stimulate el presidente calderon's economy insteada ours

the pelosi plan came in at SEVEN HUNDRED AND 80 BILLION dollars, pre interest

which is more than we've WASTED cumulatively in 50 years stationing our men and women in deutschland since adolf offed himself in the bunker on april 30, 1945

big picture

substance

not ideology

not idealism

pragmatics

SEVEN HUNDRED AND 80 BILLION dollars

big picture

Didn't vote for Obama, didn't vote for McCain, chose my protest vote as usual. Don't support Obama's stimulus / bailouts. Didn't support Bush's stimulus / bailout. Generally think we waste money everywhere and we force average Americans to support a failed system. We're devaluing our dollar by huge national debt, etc, etc.

So, you can take your political Haiku and peddle it elsewhere. I'm not a black and white type guy. I know it's difficult for someone like you to grasp the concept that there are people in this world that don't pray to a fat pachyderm or a braying ass, but instead hates the rotten system we have in place.

[The Professor]

Didn't vote for Obama, didn't vote for McCain, chose my protest vote as usual. Don't support Obama's stimulus / bailouts. Didn't support Bush's stimulus / bailout. Generally think we waste money everywhere and we force average Americans to support a failed system. We're devaluing our dollar by huge national debt, etc, etc.

So, you can take your political Haiku and peddle it elsewhere. I'm not a black and white type guy. I know it's difficult for someone like you to grasp the concept that there are people in this world that don't pray to a fat pachyderm or a braying ass, but instead hates the rotten system we have in place.

ironic

i was in agreement with EVERY WORD of the first paragraph

maybe you're the black and white guy

haiku's are three lines
five syllables, then seven
syllables, then five

cliff

and people hate

they don't hates

[The Professor]

socialist bigears
doesn't know what he's doing
gonna get us killed

haiku

for you

cliff

[disrupter]

First of all Gates is NOT cutting the F-22 program.
He is simply filling out the original contract for 183 of them & not adding additional orders.

He IS accelerating the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

BTW you Forked tongued treacherous right wing snakes,

WTF is your Fiscal responsibility on the defense budget?

We spend more on defense than the rest of the planet COMBINED.

You don't want spending on American health & livelihood,

but when it comes to an excess capacity to mass murder you are all for

RIGHT WING FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITY.

You people are the lowest, most hypocritical, deceitful pack of forked tongued liars around.

You are an endangerment to America, humanity & all known life forms in the Universe.

[The Professor]

getting emotional is always such a loser

LOLOL!

or should i say LOSER

[mwillman]

You know you really do act childish there Professor, my guess is your really a student maybe 19 to 21 years old with a b- average in your writing classes.

[disrupter]

You are evil.

& if Americans listen you MORE of your lying they will lose,

as has become only too clear from the necon's destruction of the entire globe's economy.

[doctordog]

First of all Gates is NOT cutting the F-22 program.
He is simply filling out the original contract for 183 of them & not adding additional orders.

He IS accelerating the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

BTW you Forked tongued treacherous right wing snakes,

WTF is your Fiscal responsibility on the defense budget?

We spend more on defense than the rest of the planet COMBINED.

You don't want spending on American health & livelihood,

but when it comes to an excess capacity to mass murder you are all for

RIGHT WING FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITY.

You people are the lowest, most hypocritical, deceitful pack of forked tongued liars around.

You are an endangerment to America, humanity & all known life forms in the Universe.

No, you and people like you are, you will tax the working class into bankruptcy to pay for cap and trade, universal healthcare, better education for someone else's kids. Get up off your fat ass and support yourself for once.

[The Professor]

still talking about cliffy and other posters, i see

cliffy talks issues

deficits exceeding 10% of gdp---even keynes said, no way

like gravity

e-veryify

home interest mortgage

cap and trade taxes at both ends, production and consumption

in time of depression

calling out rush and cheney for the entire first month of an administration in an emergency---that's when it was first apparent the bigeared kid didn't know what he was doing

ending charitable deductions

closing his eyes to mexican cartels

crossing his fingers in iraq

burying his head concerning islamo terror

letting ms p write his stimulus

firing gm, promoting #2, then announcing we'll make your car payment so long as it's not more than seven hundred dollars (LOLOLOL!) a month

even broaching the subject of sharia law

even suggesting we get off the dollar

sorry, the bigeared kid is governing out of a radical textbook written in the 70's when america was fat and flush and maybe could afford such cloudy headed idiocies

in time of depression, sure death

the poster above talks about cliffy and other posters

cliffy talks issues

i think that's what makes the gentleman so angry, i think that's why he attacks obama's critics on dcj

it certainly appears the gentleman can't think of a single defense

there is none, no defense for deficits at 12.3% of gdp

ask keynes

cliff