Kim Jong Il must be shaking in his boots

[Frankg]

Their missle has the capability of reaching Alaska so Barack Obama has threatened to write a letter to the United Nations Security Council condeming North Korea

I feel safer already.
MaM793N5sr4

[Binky]

Oooohhhh! That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

[Smurf-Herder]

My greatest fear is, that this does end up being a satellite they're putting into orbit. But that it isn't just a satellite - but in reality, the pre-positioning of an EMP device in orbit. Just waiting for the day someone decides to use it against us with no warning, as the first phase of a sneak attack on regional targets. After having allayed our fears of an ICBM test, in order to catch us off guard.

An EMP first-strike is now part of Russian, Chinese, North Korean and Iranian military doctrine. Everyone should look it up online.

If indeed everything goes smoothly and it appears to be what they say it is - a satellite - then we need to apply all due dilligence, in whatever way possible, in determining that it is indeed a funtional working communications satellite. Communications satellites are usually placed in high orbit, and emit signals that can be intercepted and interpreted. A low orbit device that appears to be just sitting there with no activity would be a bad sign.

After all, can anyone tell me why North Korea would need a communications satellite?

They have no troops stationed outside of their country. Their citizens have no functional private industry requiring overseas communication. Virtually all media and tele-communications with the outside world are forbidden.

The nosecone is not designed for re-entry. But is large and bulbous, as a satellite would be on a satellite launch.

So what exactly is this "thing" they're sending up, if it does in fact achieve orbit?

[Mr, gone]

Frank and these wingnuts have really stretched in using the Team America movie to present in my opinion, a very non-issue with regards to North Korea's missile launch. In my view, the worst case scenario is Iran controlling the launch and directing a nuke to Isreal. This is even a stretch, seeing how big a failure Korea's last launch went!

I feel When one watches to much Faux television, they usually become very narrow minded corrupted idealists.

When one is exposed to larges doses of science fiction movies, Popular Science magazine or any other medium dipicting a lot of cutting edge technology. They often suffer from grandiose visions of fantasy that has not yet reached reality. EMP technology in field tests have proven sucessfull. This is a LONG way away from being available from satelite!:lmao2:

According to 'experts' back in the 50's, we should now all be flying around in our own personal aircraft and living on other planets (The Fith Element type stuff)! Aside from computers, and a few other 'improvements', I'm betting that most people brought here from the fifties would not be incredibly impressed

It's strange of how easily malleable human's minds are to creating reality out of suggestion.:disbelief:

[Smurf-Herder]

Frank and these wingnuts have really stretched in using the Team America movie to present in my opinion, a very non-issue with regards to North Korea's missile launch. In my view, the worst case scenario is Iran controlling the launch and directing a nuke to Isreal. This is even a stretch, seeing how big a failure Korea's last launch went!

I feel When one watches to much Faux television, they usually become very narrow minded corrupted idealists.

When one is exposed to larges doses of science fiction movies, Popular Science magazine or any other medium dipicting a lot of cutting edge technology. They often suffer from grandiose visions of fantasy that has not yet reached reality. EMP technology in field tests have proven sucessfull. This is a LONG way away from being available from satelite!:lmao2:

According to 'experts' back in the 50's, we should now all be flying around in our own personal aircraft and living on other planets (The Fith Element type stuff)! Aside from computers, and a few other 'improvements', I'm betting that most people brought here from the fifties would not be incredibly impressed

It's strange of how easily malleable human's minds are to creating reality out of suggestion.:disbelief:

A long way from being available from satellite?

It's available from anything that can be 200 miles over North America - which includes a satellite.

I suggest you check out the extensive PDF report presented by these people:

The Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

http://www.empcommission.org/

[Mr, gone]

As I stated... The power of suggestion... It is obvious that the side effect given off by a nuclear event is EMF energy. This energy however is spread evenly over the blast perimeter. It has not been shown to be 'directed' from space.

That commisioned report in my view, is just another of many 'be scared, be very scared ' propaganda tactics that enables the government continued control over it's citizens.

I am not as easily led anymore...:talktothehand:

[Smurf-Herder]

As I stated... The power of suggestion... It is obvious that the side effect given off by a nuclear event is EMF energy. This energy however is spread evenly over the blast perimeter. It has not been shown to be 'directed' from space.

That commisioned report in my view, is just another of many 'be scared, be very scared ' propaganda tactics that enables the government continued control over it's citizens.

I am not as easily led anymore...:talktothehand:

It ionizes the atmosphere from space, producing and electromagnetic pulse that fries electronics along a line of site. Like a widespread lightning strike. During the Cold War EMP nuclear bombs were considered the ultimate weapon. That's why the military put shielding in all their critical systems.

Look it up.

[BlackAsCoal]

My greatest fear is, that this does end up being a satellite they're putting into orbit. But that it isn't just a satellite - but in reality, the pre-positioning of an EMP device in orbit. Just waiting for the day someone decides to use it against us with no warning, as the first phase of a sneak attack on regional targets. After having allayed our fears of an ICBM test, in order to catch us off guard.

An EMP first-strike is now part of Russian, Chinese, North Korean and Iranian military doctrine. Everyone should look it up online.

If indeed everything goes smoothly and it appears to be what they say it is - a satellite - then we need to apply all due dilligence, in whatever way possible, in determining that it is indeed a funtional working communications satellite. Communications satellites are usually placed in high orbit, and emit signals that can be intercepted and interpreted. A low orbit device that appears to be just sitting there with no activity would be a bad sign.

After all, can anyone tell me why North Korea would need a communications satellite?

They have no troops stationed outside of their country. Their citizens have no functional private industry requiring overseas communication. Virtually all media and tele-communications with the outside world are forbidden.

The nosecone is not designed for re-entry. But is large and bulbous, as a satellite would be on a satellite launch.

So what exactly is this "thing" they're sending up, if it does in fact achieve orbit?

North Korea has every right to test sending up whatever they want to put on the end of a missle .. just like we do. If the argument is that North Korea doesn't have the right to do what we do, that argument is doomed to fail.

It's just that simple.

That same simple equation is true of Iran and any other nation on earth which has the responsibility to protect it's citizens.

It's just that simple.

[SeniorChief]

Come on now. North Korean/Iranian/Liberal/Cuban, same same....

[Smurf-Herder]

North Korea has every right to test sending up whatever they want to put on the end of a missle .. just like we do. If the argument is that North Korea doesn't have the right to do what we do, that argument is doomed to fail.

It's just that simple.

That same simple equation is true of Iran and any other nation on earth which has the responsibility to protect it's citizens.

It's just that simple.

Tell it to the United Nations Security Council.

It's just that simple.

[Mr, gone]

Smurf,

Farady rooms and shielded elctronics were applied to prevent the reds from stealing secret data! I worked on the stuff during those times (what a pain in the ass it was)!

If what you say is correct, then why have ALL government agencies abandoned this practice after Russian communism fell?

The government uses fiber exclusively for all data routing, though all other computer, crypto, and minitors no longer contain RFI sheilding.:D

[Smurf-Herder]

Smurf,

Farady rooms and shielded elctronics were applied to prevent the reds from stealing secret data! I worked on the stuff during those times (what a pain in the ass it was)!

If what you say is correct, then why have ALL government agencies abandoned this practice after Russian communism fell?

The government uses fiber exclusively for all data routing, though all other computer, crypto, and minitors no longer contain RFI sheilding.:D

Federation of American Scientists

Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects

A high-altitude nuclear detonation produces an immediate flux of gamma rays from the nuclear reactions within the device. These photons in turn produce high energy free electrons by Compton scattering at altitudes between (roughly) 20 and 40 km. These electrons are then trapped in the Earth's magnetic field, giving rise to an oscillating electric current. This current is asymmetric in general and gives rise to a rapidly rising radiated electromagnetic field called an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). Because the electrons are trapped essentially simultaneously, a very large electromagnetic source radiates coherently.

The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air. The first recorded EMP incident accompanied a high-altitude nuclear test over the South Pacific and resulted in power system failures as far away as Hawaii. A large device detonated at 400-500 km over Kansas would affect all of CONUS. The signal from such an event extends to the visual horizon as seen from the burst point.

The EMP produced by the Compton electrons typically lasts for about 1 microsecond, and this signal is called HEMP. In addition to the prompt EMP, scattered gammas and inelastic gammas produced by weapon neutrons produce an "intermediate time" signal from about 1 microsecond to 1 second. The energetic debris entering the ionosphere produces ionization and heating of the E-region. In turn, this causes the geomagnetic field to "heave," producing a "late-time" magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) EMP generally called a heave signal.

Initially, the plasma from the weapon is slightly conducting; the geomagnetic field cannot penetrate this volume and is displaced as a result. This impulsive distortion of the geomagnetic field was observed worldwide in the case of the STARFISH test. To be sure, the size of the signal from this process is not large, but systems connected to long lines (e.g., power lines, telephone wires, and tracking wire antennas) are at risk because of the large size of the induced current. The additive effects of the MHD-EMP can cause damage to unprotected civilian and military systems that depend on or use long-line cables. Small, isolated, systems tend to be unaffected.

Military systems must survive all aspects of the EMP, from the rapid spike of the early time events to the longer duration heave signal. One of the principal problems in assuring such survival is the lack of test data from actual high-altitude nuclear explosions. Only a few such experiments were carried out before the LTBT took effect, and at that time the theoretical understanding of the phenomenon of HEMP was relatively poor. No high-altitude tests have been conducted by the United States since 1963. In addition to the more familiar high-yield tests mentioned above, three small devices were exploded in the Van Allen belts as part of Project Argus. That experiment was intended to explore the methods by which electrons were trapped and traveled along magnetic field lines.

The "acid test" of the response of modern military systems to EMP is their performance in simulators, particularly where a large number of components are involved. So many cables, pins, connectors, and devices are to be found in real hardware that computation of the progress of the EMP signal cannot be predicted, even conceptually, after the field enters a real system. System failures or upsets will depend upon the most intricate details of current paths and interior electrical connections, and one cannot analyze these beforehand. Threat-level field illumination from simulators combined with pulsed-current injection are used to evaluate the survivability of a real system against an HEMP threat.

The technology to build simulators with risetimes on the order of 10 ns is well known. This risetime is, however, longer than that of a real HEMP signal. Since 1986 the United States has used a new EMP standard which requires waveforms at threat levels having risetimes under a few nanoseconds. Threat-level simulators provide the best technique for establishing the hardness of systems against early-time HEMP. They are, however, limited to finite volumes (aircraft, tanks, communications nodes) and cannot encompass an extended system. For these systems current injection must be used.

HEMP can pose a serious threat to military systems when even a single high-altitude nuclear explosion occurs. In principle, even a new nuclear proliferator could execute such a strike. In practice, however, it seems unlikely that such a state would use one of its scarce warheads to inflict damage which must be considered secondary to the primary effects of blast, shock, and thermal pulse. Furthermore, a HEMP attack must use a relatively large warhead to be effective (perhaps on the order of one mega-ton), and new proliferators are unlikely to be able to construct such a device, much less make it small enough to be lofted to high altitude by a ballistic missile or space launcher. Finally, in a tactical situation such as was encountered in the Gulf War, an attack by Iraq against Coalition forces would have also been an attack by Iraq against its own communications, radar, missile, and power systems. EMP cannot be confined to only one "side" of the burst.

Source Region Electro-magnetic Pulse [SREMP] is produced by low-altitude nuclear bursts. An effective net vertical electron current is formed by the asymmetric deposition of electrons in the atmosphere and the ground, and the formation and decay of this current emits a pulse of electromagnetic radiation in directions perpendicular to the current. The asymmetry from a low-altitude explosion occurs because some electrons emitted downward are trapped in the upper millimeter of the Earth's surface while others, moving upward and outward, can travel long distances in the atmosphere, producing ionization and charge separation. A weaker asymmetry can exist for higher altitude explosions due to the density gradient of the atmosphere.

Within the source region, peak electric fields greater than 10 5 V/m and peak magnetic fields greater than 4,000 A/m can exist. These are much larger than those from HEMP and pose a considerable threat to military or civilian systems in the affected region. The ground is also a conductor of electricity and provides a return path for electrons at the outer part of the deposition region toward the burst point. Positive ions, which travel shorter distances than electrons and at lower velocities, remain behind and recombine with the electrons returning through the ground. Thus, strong magnetic fields are produced in the region of ground zero. When the nuclear detonation occurs near to the ground, the SREMP target may not be located in the electromagnetic far field but may instead lie within the electro-magnetic induction region. In this regime the electric and magnetic fields of the radiation are no longer perpendicular to one another, and many of the analytic tools with which we understand EM coupling in the simple plane-wave case no longer apply. The radiated EM field falls off rapidly with increasing distance from the deposition region (near to the currents the EMP does not appear to come from a point source).

As a result, the region where the greatest damage can be produced is from about 3 to 8 km from ground zero. In this same region structures housing electrical equipment are also likely to be severely damaged by blast and shock. According to the third edition of The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, by S. Glasstone and P. Dolan, "the threat to electrical and electronic systems from a surface-burst EMP may extend as far as the distance at which the peak overpressure from a 1-megaton burst is 2 pounds per square inch."

One of the unique features of SREMP is the high late-time voltage which can be produced on long lines in the first 0.1 second. This stress can produce large late-time currents on the exterior shields of systems, and shielding against the stress is very difficult. Components sensitive to magnetic fields may have to be specially hardened. SREMP effects are uniquely nuclear weapons effects.

During the Cold War, SREMP was conceived primarily as a threat to the electronic and electrical systems within hardened targets such as missile launch facilities. Clearly, SREMP effects are only important if the targeted systems are expected to survive the primary damage-causing mechanisms of blast, shock, and thermal pulse. Because SREMP is uniquely associated with nuclear strikes, technology associated with SREMP generation has no commercial applications. However, technologies associated with SREMP measurement and mitigation are commercially interesting for lightning protection and electromagnetic compatibility applications. Basic physics models of SREMP generation and coupling to generic systems, as well as numerical calculation, use unclassified and generic weapon and target parameters. However, codes and coupling models which reveal the response and vulnerability of current or future military systems are militarily critical.

Sources and Methods:

Adapted from - Nuclear Weapons Effects Technology Militarily Critical Technologies List (MCTL) Part II: Weapons of Mass Destruction Technologies Engineering and Design - Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) and Tempest Protection for Facilities

http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm

[Mr, gone]

Commision, Federation, collective... All just a well packaged and official dog and pony show for the slobbering masses. Some of the drool spewed forth in the above 'report' may very well be possible.

Though now seeing that once again Korea's missile launch was yet another complete abortion, supports my opinion of humans continuing incredible appetite for sensationalism.

Whith THIS country's advanced technology today, compaired to that of Iran or Korea - another terrorist attack could only take place on our soil via the duplicity by our leaders.:talktothehand:

[Hog Trash]

North Korea has every right to test sending up whatever they want to put on the end of a missle .. just like we do. If the argument is that North Korea doesn't have the right to do what we do, that argument is doomed to fail.

It's just that simple.

That same simple equation is true of Iran and any other nation on earth which has the responsibility to protect it's citizens.

It's just that simple.It's not a matter of having the "right" to do this...The US is the big dog on the block and could easily crush any nation in the blink of an eye.

The US has proven itself not to be desiring to rule the world...It has had many opportunities to expand it's empire from previous wars but has never done so.

On the other hand, their are nations who have made it crystal clear by words and actions of their desire to destroy the US or forcibly convert it to their laws and religion.

To deny hostile nations the ability to develope weapons that present a danger to the US and other peaceful nations is solely for the preservation of human life and world peace.

Being a marxist, you of course view it as denying muslim terrorist, communist nations, and other haters of freedom and democracy the ability to someday destroy a common enemy.

[BlackAsCoal]

It's not a matter of having the "right" to do this...The US is the big dog on the block and could easily crush any nation in the blink of an eye.

The US has proven itself not to be desiring to rule the world...It has had many opportunities to expand it's empire from previous wars but has never done so.

On the other hand, their are nations who have made it crystal clear by words and actions of their desire to destroy the US or forcibly convert it to their laws and religion.

To deny hostile nations the ability to develope weapons that present a danger to the US and other peaceful nations is solely for the preservation of human life and world peace.

Being a marxist, you of course view it as denying muslim terrorist, communist nations, and other haters of freedom and democracy the ability to someday destroy a common enemy.

First, it doesn't take much of a brain to recognize the diffrence between democratic socialism and marxism. Your continued use of marxism is yet another demonstration of the disingenuous nature of conservative argument. You use marxism because it sounds more evil.

And this has everything to do with the RIGHT of any nation to do whatever it need do to protect itself. North Korea has that right, as does Iran and muslim nations.

The US, the only nation to ever actually use nuclear weapons .. twice .. when we didn't have to either time .. is in no position to demand the world kiss our ass about nuclear proliferation or anything else .. particularly after 8 years of imbecilic republican rule that has alienated the world.

The US has taken every opportunity to expand our rule as evidenced by the fact that we have troops stationed all over the planet and we have not hesitated to invade, overthrow, and/or destroy governments we don't like.

Additionally. would you be speaking of the "big dog" that got its ass run out of Vietnam, a country about the size of Texas, or the "big dog" that failed in Iraq, a country about the size of Ohio. The "big dog" does real well when fighting poodles (Grenada, Panama), but has much more difficulty fighting small terriers.

So much for "crushing nations."

[BlackAsCoal]

Tell it to the United Nations Security Council.

It's just that simple.

What action has the UN Security Council taken on the NK missle test?

China and Russia are against any strong action and few countries follow America's lead these days.

Always interesting hearing conservatives looking to the UN for solutions.

By the way, how many UN Resolutions are there against Israel.

More than against any nation in the history of the UN.

That's why nobody is listening .. nor should they.

[Hog Trash]

First, it doesn't take much of a brain to recognize the diffrence between democratic socialism and marxism. Your continued use of marxism is yet another demonstration of the disingenuous nature of conservative argument. You use marxism because it sounds more evil.Marxism is evil and no matter how hard you try to clean your political views up with pretty words like democratic socialism, it is still marxism and always will be.

And this has everything to do with the RIGHT of any nation to do whatever it need do to protect itself. North Korea has that right, as does Iran and muslim nations.

The US, the only nation to ever actually use nuclear weapons .. twice .. when we didn't have to either time .. is in no position to demand the world kiss our ass about nuclear proliferation or anything else .. particularly after 8 years of imbecilic republican rule that has alienated the world.

The US has taken every opportunity to expand our rule as evidenced by the fact that we have troops stationed all over the planet and we have not hesitated to invade, overthrow, and/or destroy governments we don't like.

Additionally. would you be speaking of the "big dog" that got its ass run out of Vietnam, a country about the size of Texas, or the "big dog" that failed in Iraq, a country about the size of Ohio. The "big dog" does real well when fighting poodles (Grenada, Panama), but has much more difficulty fighting small terriers.

So much for "crushing nations."Your hatred for America, which is a result of your marxist views, is evidence of how evil marxism really is.

Oh what wonderful promises the marxist make...Their are many people who live under or have escaped communism who once believed as you do.

America is the embodiment of freedom, democracy, prosperity and opportunity for all, which are the enemies of the evil, suffering and stagnation that is marxism.

[Smurf-Herder]

What action has the UN Security Council taken on the NK missle test?

China and Russia are against any strong action and few countries follow America's lead these days.

Always interesting hearing conservatives looking to the UN for solutions.

By the way, how many UN Resolutions are there against Israel.

More than against any nation in the history of the UN.

That's why nobody is listening .. nor should they.

Don't go off on a tangent about Israel.

So tell me, how does Barry plan to rid the world of nuclear weapons if nobody wants to listen? Like North Korea, who just shoved abiding by agreements it in his face.

[Hog Trash]

It is impossible for Marxism to take root in an unproductive society....This is why American, European and Oriental nations have been the targets of the marxist proponents.

The reason being is they must have a class of productive people to fulfill the role of the "from each according to his ability" group, or the "to each according to his need" group will starve.

[Hog Trash]

Additionally. would you be speaking of the "big dog" that got its ass run out of Vietnam, a country about the size of Texas, or the "big dog" that failed in Iraq, a country about the size of Ohio. The "big dog" does real well when fighting poodles (Grenada, Panama), but has much more difficulty fighting small terriers.
BAC, you're sounding like a liberal, but I suppose a marxist is just a liberal on steroids...LOL!

The US never got their ass kicked or kicked out of Iraq or Viet Nam. I was there. We packed up and left one day over public opinion, which was a good thing because when politicians run a war instead of generals it drags the war out, makes victory much more difficult and casualties much higher on both sides. Even with the restrictions placed on the US military, we kicked ass.

[Bill Cosby]

According to 'experts' back in the 50's, we should now all be flying around in our own personal aircraft and living on other planets (The Fith Element type stuff)! Aside from computers, and a few other 'improvements', I'm betting that most people brought here from the fifties would not be incredibly impressed

It's strange of how easily malleable human's minds are to creating reality out of suggestion.:disbelief:


I bleive that would be true.......... We wasted our efforts creating bigger & better ways to kill each other.......

[Bill Cosby]

North Korea has every right to test sending up whatever they want to put on the end of a missle .. just like we do. If the argument is that North Korea doesn't have the right to do what we do, that argument is doomed to fail.

It's just that simple.

That same simple equation is true of Iran and any other nation on earth which has the responsibility to protect it's citizens.

It's just that simple.

Treating others as we wish to be treated is not the American way........

Remember: preventive war is not war........:rolleyes:

[Smurf-Herder]

Treating others as we wish to be treated is not the American way........

Remember: preventive war is not war........:rolleyes:


So we always have to wait until a Pearl Harbor happens first, in your opinion?

[Bill Cosby]

Think what you will on it........

Going around attacking ppl to prevent war is nuts………:banghead:

I guess they should have attacked Russia, China, Israel, Wackistan, India & then just in case nuked southern France…..????

Hell we can attack anyone then cause we believe, we suspect... Like we did w/ that yellow cake…

You wanna give the politicians license…. I don’t……

[Mr, gone]

Bill Cosby has it correct. It is always the bully who gets the blanket party regardless of the context. We have since WWII, been the biggest bullies on the world's block!

Yes, humans are intelligent enough to completely annihilate each other, and just might be stupid enough to do so.:disbelief:

[Bill Cosby]

Bill Cosby has it correct.

We have since WWII, been the biggest bullies on the world's block!

Yes, humans are intelligent enough to completely annihilate each other, and just might be stupid enough to do so.:disbelief:

lol............

Unfortunately I believe we are "just maybe" that dumb/crazy...........

bush the lesser doctrine (paranoia) just maybe the catalyst….

As there is gonna be very serious repercussions for any leader or nation that declares unequivocally the exclusive right to do whatever they want, to who ever they want, for whatever reasons they want…

Imagine a world were other nations like China, Russia, India took this position…. It is a good idea for us but not them…………..lol

[Hog Trash]

Bill Cosby has it correct. It is always the bully who gets the blanket party regardless of the context. We have since WWII, been the biggest bullies on the world's block!

Yes, humans are intelligent enough to completely annihilate each other, and just might be stupid enough to do so.:disbelief:You boys know very little of the world or survival...Peace is maintained by strength and preparedness.

To prevent all-out war one must sometimes flex his muscles...The cold war was prevented from getting hot by this method.

Two military giants and rivalries, scared shitless of each other...Fear saved us from death and destruction on a massive scale.

Speak softly and carry a big stick...Get it?...I doubt it...Hatred for Bush and/or America interfears with your ability for rational thought.

[BlackAsCoal]

Treating others as we wish to be treated is not the American way........

Remember: preventive war is not war........:rolleyes:


Which is exactly why "the American way" is so rejected around the world today.

[BlackAsCoal]

So we always have to wait until a Pearl Harbor happens first, in your opinion?

We didn't just wait for Pearl Harbor to happen .. we encouraged it and we let it happen.

[BlackAsCoal]

Don't go off on a tangent about Israel.

So tell me, how does Barry plan to rid the world of nuclear weapons if nobody wants to listen? Like North Korea, who just shoved abiding by agreements it in his face.

There is nothing sacrosanct about Israel whatsoever sir.

North Korea has been giving agreements the finger long before Obama .. as they should.

As long as Israel and its nukes are ignored, no one should be held to any agreement Israel isn't held to.

[BlackAsCoal]

Don't go off on a tangent about Israel.

So tell me, how does Barry plan to rid the world of nuclear weapons if nobody wants to listen? Like North Korea, who just shoved abiding by agreements it in his face.

There is nothing sacrosanct about Israel whatsoever sir.

North Korea has been giving agreements the finger long before Obama .. as they should.

As long as Israel and its nukes are ignored, no one should be held to any agreement Israel isn't held to.

[Smurf-Herder]

There is nothing sacrosanct about Israel whatsoever sir.

North Korea has been giving agreements the finger long before Obama .. as they should.

As long as Israel and its nukes are ignored, no one should be held to any agreement Israel isn't held to.

THere is no agreement to hold Israel to.

I don't believe Israel, India or Pakistan are signatories to the NPL treaty. But Iran and North Korea are.

What agreement would you hold them to?

[Smurf-Herder]

There is nothing sacrosanct about Israel whatsoever sir.

North Korea has been giving agreements the finger long before Obama .. as they should.

As long as Israel and its nukes are ignored, no one should be held to any agreement Israel isn't held to.

There is no agreement to hold Israel to.

I don't believe Israel, India or Pakistan are signatories to the NPL treaty. But I'm pretty sure Iran and North Korea are.

What agreement would you hold them to?

[BlackAsCoal]

There is no agreement to hold Israel to.

I don't believe Israel, India or Pakistan are signatories to the NPL treaty. But I'm pretty sure Iran and North Korea are.

What agreement would you hold them to?

Whether Israel agrees or not, no nation on earth should be held to any agreement Israel doesn't have to agree to regarding nuclear weapons.

It's a real simple equation.

[Smurf-Herder]

Whether Israel agrees or not, no nation on earth should be held to any agreement Israel doesn't have to agree to regarding nuclear weapons.

It's a real simple equation.

Okay then - what about Pakistan and India?

They are just as guilty, if you call it guilt.

[BlackAsCoal]

Okay then - what about Pakistan and India?

They are just as guilty, if you call it guilt.

ALL nations should be held to the same agreements about their nuclear arsenal and proliferation.

Isn't that the right-wing argument about weapons?

If criminals have them, so should you?

[GetAClue]

Whether Israel agrees or not, no nation on earth should be held to any agreement Israel doesn't have to agree to regarding nuclear weapons.

It's a real simple equation.

Why do you single out Israel? If there is one country on this planet that should be able to do what is necessary to protect themselves it is Israel. They are surrounded on every side by people that have expressed the desire to wipe them from the face of the earth and at times have acted on that.

Israel in the face of all of this evil has shown incredible restraint. They have had the ability for a number of years to level ALL of those nations but have yet to act on it. They are a VERY responsible member of the world’s nuclear club, unlike North Korea and others.

To attempt to compare Israel with North Korea or any other rogue nation is very disingenuous.

[BlackAsCoal]

Why do you single out Israel? If there is one country on this planet that should be able to do what is necessary to protect themselves it is Israel. They are surrounded on every side by people that have expressed the desire to wipe them from the face of the earth and at times have acted on that.

Israel in the face of all of this evil has shown incredible restraint. They have had the ability for a number of years to level ALL of those nations but have yet to act on it. They are a VERY responsible member of the world’s nuclear club, unlike North Korea and others.

To attempt to compare Israel with North Korea or any other rogue nation is very disingenuous.

I don't single out Israel, I simply don't make an exception of it as is the norm in this country.

If the US used a UN Resolution to attack Iraq and mass-murder its people, how then is the comparison of Israel and Iraq, North Korea, or anywhere else not valid? Israel is in violation of more UN Resolutions than any nation in history.

How is the question of proportionality valid in the Georgia/Russia conflict .. which Obama used to funnel one billion dollars to Georgia with .. then not valid in Gaza?

It's a ridiculous notion that is based purely on "we are superior so we get to make the rules."

The Islamic world, as has the rest of the world, abandoned seeking balance or fairness on the question of Israel and have charted their own course without US approval.

Our imbalance in the ME has opened the door for great SCO advances and has helped to turn europe against us.

The equation is real simple .. ain't nothing more special about Israel than anywhere else in the world .. in fact, given it's lack of resources, there is even less.

[Bill Cosby]

Which is exactly why "the American way" is so rejected around the world today.

& rightly so.......... A paranoid doctrine from a paranoid man........

[Hog Trash]

Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal
Which is exactly why "the American way" is so rejected around the world today.& rightly so.......... A paranoid doctrine from a paranoid man........At the risk of sounding cleshea, since you fellas don't seem to like the USA all that much, why haven't you considered relocating?

There are some really nice socialist utopias and communist paradises around the world where you could live your dream life.

If you sold your possessions, I'm sure you could afford one way tickets for you and your families and wouldn't need money once you got there.

[BlackAsCoal]

& rightly so.......... A paranoid doctrine from a paranoid man........

Quite true.

By the way, I've had the honor of meeting and talking to Howard Zinn on a couple of occasions. He taught at Spelman, does lots of tours in Atlanta.

Unbelievable intelligence.

I've also had the .. uhh .. pleasure of debating Bill Cosby.

Unbelievable arrogance.

[Bill Cosby]

At the risk of sounding cleshea, since you fellas don't seem to like the USA all that much, why haven't you considered relocating?

There are some really nice socialist utopias and communist paradises around the world where you could live your dream life.

If you sold your possessions, I'm sure you could afford one way tickets for you and your families and wouldn't need money once you got there.

:lmao2: :lmao2:

Wow & w/ shit like this you got to the top of the food chain..... (shakes head smiley here)

Lets see now I was born here, not sure about you so why don't you leave...:thumbsup:

Things are gonna be changin so you better get use to it kid...>>> Make it easier on yourself.

There my good deed for the day............ ;)

[Mr, gone]

Originally posted by Hog Trash
Speak softly and carry a big stick...Get it?...I doubt it...Hatred for Bush and/or America interfears with your ability for rational thought.

Hog, This government has a BIG mouth AND carries a big stick.:lmao2:

Sounds like the perfect definition of a bully to me...