WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS us...uS...US.

[stefan segal]

Bill Moyer 50 years worth on the secret government and the loss of our Constitutional power and rights.

Stefan

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8536707153900925247

[kres24GT]

Do you really believe in a constitutional US Government stefan? I really doubt you do. Close to 75% of our federal government is unconstitutional.

[stefan segal]

Kres...I believe we have the technology to directly vote from our homes on every issue.

I think the congress and senate should be the debating team to illuminate the pros and conns of the issues, but not have a vote.

They would of course have constituencies that may form a voting block, but they themselves could not vote for tens of thousands.

This would make all back room deals transparent, it would cut the nuts and credit cards from the corporate shills that bribe "our representatives"...and finally, it would give the means on a daily basis to castegate any representative that would push for bogus bills, or not bring wanted bill to the floor, and replace them with another rep. at any time...not just every four or six years.

I think this would be a giant step in the right direction...one man...one vote.

Yes I do believe in the Constitution...and yes...I believe we will ultimately regain our Consitutional rights.

A representative government is a Constitutional government...it my not be a democracy, but a republic. As such I think voting on daily issues would bring us much closer to a democracy also.

Stefan

[kres24GT]

Kres...I believe we have the technology to directly vote from our homes on every issue.

I think the congress and senate should be the debating team to illuminate the pros and conns of the issues, but not have a vote.

They would of course have constituencies that may form a voting block, but they themselves could not vote for tens of thousands.

This would make all back room deals transparent, it would cut the nuts and credit cards from the corporate shills that bribe "our representatives"...and finally, it would give the means on a daily basis to castegate any representative that would push for bogus bills, or not bring wanted bill to the floor, and replace them with another rep. at any time...not just every four or six years.

I think this would be a giant step in the right direction...one man...one vote.

Yes I do believe in the Constitution...and yes...I believe we will ultimately regain our Consitutional rights.

A representative government is a Constitutional government...it my not be a democracy, but a republic. As such I think voting on daily issues would bring us much closer to a democracy also.

Stefan

The constitution says nothing about a true democracy, which is scary and would be the end of this country.


I would love for us to returning to a constitutional government, but the people would not stand for it, neither would the politicians.

[Mr. Blue]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8536707153900925247

I've seen this video a few times now. It really is an excellent piece of journalism...it's unfortunate now the media has been dummied down to covering celebrity news because that's what the public wants to see.

[Mr. Blue]

Kres...I believe we have the technology to directly vote from our homes on every issue.

I've worked on the internet since Al Gore created it, lol, technology is wonderful but highly flawed...there will always be hackers that can break into a system and manipulate it.

Also, my faith in a direct democracy is a little shaky best. When I see news stories on college students that are choking each other to get a high...I start wondering if I really want everyone voting, lol.

[kres24GT]

I've worked on the internet since Al Gore created it, lol, technology is wonderful but highly flawed...there will always be hackers that can break into a system and manipulate it.

Also, my faith in a direct democracy is a little shaky best. When I see news stories on college students that are choking each other to get a high...I start wondering if I really want everyone voting, lol.


A true democracy would be worse than anarchy. As corrupt and inefficient as the politicians are, they are a necessary evil.

Not sure what a true democracy and the constitution have to do with one another. The constitution is clearly set up to prevent a democracy.

[stefan segal]

Blue...no question as to that...but like all real shifts in awareness and responsibility, it takes a bit of time to catch on.

If, like Willie Sutton who said he robs banks because that's where the money is, the notion of everyone voting and having the reasonsibility to to vote was peddled on american idol and some other mental swamps, but including PBS and radio...I think the idea being novel, in as muxh as government representing it's people, then I believe it could overcome many setbacks and be jumpstarted.

As far as the technology goes, I think there could be a dedicated system devoid of any toeholds... a dot vote internet without the 'inter' or 'net'.
I also believe a simple dedicated device that must handshake with the server, having solely three buttons: yes...no...abstain...the rest is blackboxed.

I realize the server then becomes a problem, and I'm too ignorant to deconstruct what problems might be experienced at that level...but I feel confident that a hands off collector (s) (I think it would be more foolproof if each of the three choices were routed in each home...at not where collected)
and the the numbers were displayed on CNN or some such as aggregated n real time. Of course with some sort of paper trail or usb memory...or I admit to ignorance and again display my faith that a tamper-proof system could be devised to everyone's satisfaction.

Stefan

[Mr. Blue]

Blue...no question as to that...but like all real shifts in awareness and responsibility, it takes a bit of time to catch on.

If, like Willie Sutton who said he robs banks because that's where the money is, the notion of everyone voting and having the reasonsibility to to vote was peddled on american idol and some other mental swamps, but including PBS and radio...I think the idea being novel, in as muxh as government representing it's people, then I believe it could overcome many setbacks and be jumpstarted.

As far as the technology goes, I think there could be a dedicated system devoid of any toeholds... a dot vote internet without the 'inter' or 'net'.
I also believe a simple dedicated device that must handshake with the server, having solely three buttons: yes...no...abstain...the rest is blackboxed.

I realize the server then becomes a problem, and I'm too ignorant to deconstruct what problems might be experienced at that level...but I feel confident that a hands off collector (s) (I think it would be more foolproof if each of the three choices were routed in each home...at not where collected)
and the the numbers were displayed on CNN or some such as aggregated n real time. Of course with some sort of paper trail or usb memory...or I admit to ignorance and again display my faith that a tamper-proof system could be devised to everyone's satisfaction.

Stefan

It's a nice idea in theory, but I just don't think it would work if put into practice. The idea of a Republic works, but only when the representatives are truly representing their constituents. I think that's become the biggest problem in Washington...elected officials are in the pockets of their political party, the lobby groups that buy them off, etc, etc, that they no longer represent the people that elect them.

[exarmyranger]

The same thing could be said,and has been...(To Quote the Late,Will Rodgers)."Communism is a good form of government;unfurtunatly it do'nt work!"






9




0 H

[stefan segal]

I really like the idea of making the people directly responsible and then all the bitching will be dumped upon 'we the people', who ultimately deserve what government we get.

We the people have a Constitution...we the people who don't rise up tsumi fashion and demand that it be followed religiously (which by the way, is the only form of church & state I find acceptable) or reinstate the public hangings, are responsible today.

Put the heads on pikes beside the beltway as warning to those entering DC..."WE ARE A LAW ABIDING PEOPLE" on a sign under them...like Burma Shave signs...OPEN SEASON ON LOBBYISTS...DON'T LITTER...DUMP YOUR CARCASSES IN CORNER HOPPERS...

I spend a lot of time in my own company...we tend to get a little crazy at those times when the relief valve starts madly whistling...on the other hand...the one cut off for thieving, it would stir the pot and make for some real changes.

Stefan

Stefan

[Mr. Blue]

I really like the idea of making the people directly responsible and then all the bitching will be dumped upon 'we the people', who ultimately deserve what government we get.

Well, I agree completely with that. The thing that kills me is how people don't participate even in our flawed system, yet they're more than willing to complain about it 24/7. Voting is important just to stop people from whining...they've voted, they have to live with what they voted for, amen.

What do you think about mandatory voting for Presidential Elections? I know there's a number of countries that make voting mandatory and I'm not opposed to that...it forces adults to take a stand and vote.


We the people have a Constitution...we the people who don't rise up tsumi fashion and demand that it be followed religiously (which by the way, is the only form of church & state I find acceptable) or reinstate the public hangings, are responsible today.

Put the heads on pikes beside the beltway as warning to those entering DC..."WE ARE A LAW ABIDING PEOPLE" on a sign under them...like Burma Shave signs...OPEN SEASON ON LOBBYISTS...DON'T LITTER...DUMP YOUR CARCASSES IN CORNER HOPPERS...

LOL, nice, yeah I completely feel ill at how lobby groups own politicians. At times it just amazes me the media doesn't cover the money trail more. Do a series of reports on lobby groups, who they support, and what they're spending their money on. Since the media doesn't focus any attention on lobby groups they get away with buying America cheap.

[stefan segal]

Blue...the media is the last chance option...our congressmen and senators allow those representing non-citizen entities (alien corporations like montsanto ford GE exon) subourne our elected officials

These corporations have the right to freely use our infrastructure and agencies, but no responsibilities of citizenship...as a legal non-entity.

The very basis of forming a corporate structure is to avoid legal personal responsibility.

Corporations have no loyality or fielty to USA...they rip off what they can, piss on what they can't, then move on to new pastures to rape.

I suspect that corporations based in US have the same legal status here as corporations based in China or France...that is if you can sort out where any corporation actually hails from or to.

Their institutionalized bribery then should be considered a conspiracy to subvert our government...which is right up there with treason, as far as the level of serious offenses.

I have one vote...I have the responsibilities of citizenship...corporations have the power of manipulating the laws of the land which directly effect citizens...and they have no vote and no responsibilities.

It exists because they provide the trough the hogs feed from...and that in itself is illegal in its intent to subourne and manip ulate our government.

Stefan

[Betty Blowtorch]

It's a nice idea in theory, but I just don't think it would work
if put into practice. The idea of a Republic works, but only when
the representatives are truly representing their constituents.
I think that's become the biggest problem in Washington...
elected officials are in the pockets of their political party,
the lobby groups that buy them off, etc, etc, that they
no longer represent the people that elect them.
Yes, this is the crux of the problem: politicians are more
responsive to MONEY than to the votes of the people.

The November 2006 elections made it clear that the majority
of Americans are fed up with the Iraq war and want to begin
withdrawing troops. But what does Bush do? He escalates.
He feeds 20,000 more troops into the meatgrinder.

Even if the majority of voters express their will on an issue,
it's an exercise in futility unless there's some way of forcing
politicians to comply with the will of the majority rather than
sucking up to the corporations and lobbyists who provide the
campaign financing (and who are making big profits.)

[Mr. Blue]

Blue...the media is the last chance option...our congressmen and senators allow those representing non-citizen entities (alien corporations like montsanto ford GE exon) subourne our elected officials

I don't hold out much hope for the media. I don't know if the collective IQ of America is dropping, but it seems like we care more about celebrity gossip than actual news. In the last year if you looked at the news channels, most of the stories will circulate around celebrities or the salacious type of gossip news.

They'll talk about a politicians personal life, how much money he's raised, how he/she got into a bitchy little catfight, but they won't cover where they stand on the issues. Which leads me to believe that politicians don't need to have a stand on any issue because no one is going to ask them.

Corporations have no loyality or fielty to USA...they rip off what they can, piss on what they can't, then move on to new pastures to rape.

I agree with that, but it goes beyond corporations. I mean one of the most ridiculous lobby groups is the Pro-Israel lobby group. Basically the U.S. gives Israel a shitload of money each year. In turn they give a fraction of that amount to a lobby group to buy off our politicians. :talktothehand: That needs to stop like right now. There should be no foreign lobby group influencing our politicians. How insane is that??? You kind of understand why our politicians won't say boo about Israel.

Their institutionalized bribery then should be considered a conspiracy to subvert our government...which is right up there with treason, as far as the level of serious offenses.

Amen. The problem is the people in power are the only ones that can change it...they won't because they benefit from it. Media can apply pressure but they've become infotainment. We're in a pretty bad state of affairs.

I cast my vote, hope politicians follow through on their campaign pledges, and they never do. Doesn't matter if it's republican, democrat, or independent...they get bought off before the election is decided and they get into bed with their party and lobbyists and screw the Republic and the idea of representing their constituents.

Another thing...why don't we have middle class or upper middle class politicians anymore...what I mean to say is why do they all have to be millionaires??? How would they know what the average person goes through? What I'd like to see is in a Presidential debate the moderator asking the candidate, "How much does a gallon of milk cost?" lol, now I know this seems mundane, but people so removed from the common man is also completely removed from their troubles.

[stefan segal]

Blue...if you agree the point about corporate conspiring to subvert our government, then changing the role of congressmen from representative to issue-advocate through the mechanism of taking away thier power to vote and disemenating that aggregate power amongst all citizens of age, would cure all these problems along with cronyism...but most of all it would make corporate money to congressional leaders superflous, and instead refocus
corporate power toward favorable impressing the masses.

You also state the lack of legal means to bring about this change.

In the Declaration of Independance, it states the conditions under which a citizen should rightly expect and demand...this is not juris prudence, but it is license.

To organize energy sufficient to make change without a viable improvement to fill the vacuume intended, is as stupid as invading an innocent soverign nation without a plan to govern the peace.

I believe most all ill would be cured by stripping representatives of the power to vote.

I believe that 'one man...one vote', will birth a whole new rash of problems of a different nature...my innitial thought is the upsurping of our legal system by the religious freaks party...my response to this is a preemptive law that fast-tracks anyone who uses the pulpit/tv to mix church with state, with a mandatory minimum jail time of ten years.


We expent too much energy protecting our kids from the pornography depiciting the normal gamut of normal sex drives, while the far more dangerous and character-crippling jesus freaks full access to their impressionable minds...minds that haven't yet the history to make rational decisions when the attempt to spread jesus disease on their gray matter comes from all sides.

Stefan