Obama, taking on unions, backs teacher merit pay

[Moby]

Is merit pay and bonuses part of the a Marxist, Socialist regime? :lmao2:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_education_21

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer – 40 mins ago

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama embraced merit pay for teachers Tuesday in spelling out a vision of education that will almost certainly alienate union backers.

Educators oppose charter schools because they divert tax dollars away from traditional public schools. Merit-based systems for teachers have for years been anathema to teachers' unions, a powerful force in the Democratic Party.

Obama acknowledged this in his talk to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

"Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom," he said, delivering the first major education speech of his presidency. "Too many in the Republican Party have opposed new investments in early education, despite compelling evidence of its importance."

But he argued that a far-reaching overhaul of the nation's education system is an economic imperative that can't wait, despite the urgency of the financial crisis and other pressing issues.

"Despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short, and other nations outpace us," Obama said. "The relative decline of American education is untenable for our economy, unsustainable for our democracy, and unacceptable for our children. We cannot afford to let it continue. What is at stake is nothing less than the American dream."

The ideas the president promoted were nearly all elements of his campaign platform last year. He only barely mentioned the reauthorization of the Bush-era No Child Left Behind Act, which introduced sweeping reforms that schools are struggling to meet without the funding to match. Obama said his administration would "later this year" ensure that schools get the funding they need and that the money is conditioned on results.

Among the principles Obama laid out were:

_Challenging states to adopt world-class standards rather than a specific standard. Obama's economic stimulus plan includes a $5 billion incentive fund to reward states for, among other things, boosting the quality of standards and state tests, and the president said the Education Department would create a fund to invest in innovation.

_Improved pre-kindergarten programs, including $5 billion in the stimulus plan to grow Head Start, expand child care access and do more for children with special needs. He also said he would offer 55,000 first-time parents regular visits from trained nurses and said that states that develop cutting-edge plans to raise the quality of early learning programs would get an Early Learning Challenge Grant, if Congress approves the new program.

_Reducing student dropout rates. To students, Obama said: "Don't even think about dropping out of school." But he said that reducing the dropout rates also requires turning around the worst schools, something he asked lawmakers, parents and teachers to make "our collective responsibility as Americans."

_Repeating his call for everyone to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training, with the goal of highest proportion of college graduates in the world by the year 2020.

On charter schools, he said the caps instituted by some states on how many are allowed aren't "good for our children, our economy, or our country."

Obama also spoke at length about what he described his policy toward teachers, what he called an `unprecedented commitment to ensure that anyone entrusted with educating our children is doing the job as well as it can be done." In up to 150 more school districts, Obama said, teachers will get mentoring, more money for improved student achievement and new responsibilities.

Also, Obama said, "We need to make sure our students have the teacher they need to be successful. That means states and school districts taking steps to move bad teachers out of the classroom. Let me be clear: if a teacher is given a chance but still does not improve, there is no excuse for that person to continue teaching."

The president acknowledged that a rethinking of the traditional American school day may not be welcome — "not in my family, and probably not in yours" — but is critical.

"The challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom," Obama said. "If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America."

After the speech, Obama stopped at a hotel to drop in on another meeting, an already scheduled and ongoing round-table discussion between Education Secretary Arne Duncan and the Council of Chief State School Officers, which involves the heads of education from every state and U.S. territory.

[Smurf-Herder]

Forcing unions through the new Card Check legislation is.

Haven't you figured this out yet?

You can't believe anything he says. It's all for show.

[GetAClue]

Forcing unions through the new Card Check legislation is.

Not forcing Unions, forcing Companies. This is what the Unions want. It is those companies (and ultimately the consumer) that will suffer the negative impacts that oppose Card Check.

[doctordog]

How about we put the President and Congress on merit pay?:thumbsup:

Most of Congress would leave still owing us money!

[Cat slave]

Lets downsize them and reduce their benefit packages to make them more....
competitive!:D

[Smurf-Herder]

Hey, the DEMs killed the D.C. school voucher program - something the unions wanted. Now parents in D.C. don't have the same choice of schools they fought for, that Obama has for his kids.

[GetAClue]

Hey, the DEMs killed the D.C. school voucher program - something the unions wanted. Now parents in D.C. don't have the same choice of schools they fought for, that Obama has for his kids.

Just typical elitist liberal mentality. Do as I say, not as I do! Kind of like Congress villifying corporate CEO's for flying in company owned jets on company buisness, while Nancy Pelosi flies on Government jets on Personal Buisness. And then as the autdacity to complain that the Air Force is not accomodating her every whim!

[Mr. Blue]

I have some personal experience with this topic. My degree was in education, I did some student teaching, and my sister is a teacher. The union, especially the NYC union, allowed for complete and totally incompetent tenured teachers to keep their position.

I'm glad I ended up making a change in career plans, because that would have driven me nuts. I saw science teachers playing Jurassic Park and videos like that as a legitimate "class" while they read the newspaper in the teacher's lounge. Teachers that were running side businesses out of the school while they should have been teaching. Passing students that shouldn't have been passed.

Getting bad teachers out of the system is nearly impossible...we wonder why our education system is failing? It has nothing to do with lack of funding, we've seen school districts get flooded with money, and it had no benefit whatsoever, we need to rethink the way we educate.

[BlackAsCoal]

Hey, the DEMs killed the D.C. school voucher program - something the unions wanted. Now parents in D.C. don't have the same choice of schools they fought for, that Obama has for his kids.

Now they can put that money into the public school system where the vast majority of the students are.



Public Schools Vs. Private Schools: New Study Says There Is No Difference

Many people assume that students enrolled in private schools perform better academically than do students attending public schools. The Center on Education Policy (CEP), however, disagrees. According to a new CEP study released this week, private school students and public school students perform equally on achievement tests in math, reading, science, and history.

Summary of CEP Findings


Low-income students attending public high schools performed just as well academically as low-income students attending private high schools.
Neither private school students nor public school students with similar background characteristics were more likely to attend college.
Young adults at age 26 who attended private school are no more likely to be engaged in civic activities than young adults who attended a public school.
Private school graduates aren't any more satisfied with the jobs they hold at age 26 than are public school graduates.

'Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance,' stated Jack Jennings, the president and CEO of CEP. 'Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background.'

What sets the CEP study apart from other studies that have compared private school students to public school students is that the CEP study used an additional range of factors, including earlier test scores, parental expectations, parental involvement, and the effects of income. Other studies have typically relied on academic test scores alone.

The one difference that CEP found between private schools and public schools involves SAT scores. According to the study, private school students have the edge on the SAT. The CEP notes that this could be because private schools tend to offer more test prep resources than do public schools.

more at link --
http://education-portal.com/articles/Public_Schools_vs._Private_Schools:_New_Study_Says _There_is_No_Difference.html

It's the same lie that integration was.

[Smurf-Herder]

Now it's a maybe:

White House Says Obama Will Not Allow D.C. School Vouchers To Expire

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs insinuated today that President Obama will reverse a provision in the omnibus spending bill to terminate school vouchers for underprivileged students in Washington, D.C.

The president signed the $410 billion dollar omnibus spending bill for fiscal year 2009 this afternoon. It includes a provision that lets funding for the city’s school voucher program to expire at the end of the 2010 school year. The program allows about 1,700 mostly low-income and minority students to attend private schools as an alterative to the struggling D.C. public school system.

“It wouldn't make sense to disrupt the education of those that are in that system,” Gibbs said in discussing the president’s thinking. “And I think we'll work with Congress to ensure that a disruption like that doesn't take place.”

Asked if President Obama plans to restore the program’s funding in his full budget, which is currently being drafted, Gibbs said, “whether it's in the budget or in the -- the appropriations process,” the administration will work to make sure “that disruption doesn't take place.”

Gibbs also said that the voucher program, which benefits students attending his daughter’s private school, is not a long term solution to the problem of subpar city schools.

“The president doesn't believe that vouchers are a long-term answer to our educational problems and the challenges that face our public school system, where the vast majority of -- of students are educated in this country,” he said.

The Senate voted 50 to 39 Tuesday to reject a Republican-sponsored amendment to the spending bill which would have extended the voucher program beyond the 2009-2010 school year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/03/11/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4860043.shtml

[GetAClue]

Now they can put that money into the public school system where the vast majority of the students are.



Public Schools Vs. Private Schools: New Study Says There Is No Difference

Many people assume that students enrolled in private schools perform better academically than do students attending public schools. The Center on Education Policy (CEP), however, disagrees. According to a new CEP study released this week, private school students and public school students perform equally on achievement tests in math, reading, science, and history.

Summary of CEP Findings


Low-income students attending public high schools performed just as well academically as low-income students attending private high schools.
Neither private school students nor public school students with similar background characteristics were more likely to attend college.
Young adults at age 26 who attended private school are no more likely to be engaged in civic activities than young adults who attended a public school.
Private school graduates aren't any more satisfied with the jobs they hold at age 26 than are public school graduates.

'Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance,' stated Jack Jennings, the president and CEO of CEP. 'Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background.'

What sets the CEP study apart from other studies that have compared private school students to public school students is that the CEP study used an additional range of factors, including earlier test scores, parental expectations, parental involvement, and the effects of income. Other studies have typically relied on academic test scores alone.

The one difference that CEP found between private schools and public schools involves SAT scores. According to the study, private school students have the edge on the SAT. The CEP notes that this could be because private schools tend to offer more test prep resources than do public schools.

more at link --
http://education-portal.com/articles/Public_Schools_vs._Private_Schools:_New_Study_Says _There_is_No_Difference.html

It's the same lie that integration was.

BAC, you might want to look at who funded that study. The Center for Education Policy. If you go look at their website, you will see their motivation. It clearly states :

The Center on Education Policy is a national, independent advocate for public education and for more effective public schools. The Center helps Americans better understand the role of public education in a democracy and the need to improve the academic quality of public schools. We do not represent any special interests. Instead, we try to help citizens make sense of the conflicting opinions and perceptions about public education and create the conditions that will lead to better public schools.


I believe it was in their best interest to show that public schools are on par with private. It actually suprises me that they gave private schools as much credit as they did.

And who funds the Center for Education Policy? The NEA. Go figure. The same group that is trying to kill the school voucher program. That would be like the tobacco industry doing a study to say the smoking is good for your health. Who would believe it? Liberals!

Can you say "Agenda"?

[Cat slave]

Talk is cheap as is pandering. Just give it time!

[ROdger Right]

So what qualifys a teacher to get merit pay. To fall in line and teach an agenda?
I dont understand how this works
Not that long ago i was in school and i can say that following the book or what ever doesnt make a good teacher.

[Moby]

Hey, the DEMs killed the D.C. school voucher program - something the unions wanted. Now parents in D.C. don't have the same choice of schools they fought for, that Obama has for his kids.
I'm glad that you're sticking to the issue and not being a partisan hack :thumbsup:

Everyone keeps throwing around the socialism and marxist words without being able to define what they mean. Kind of like elitist :) The point is that if was a true marxist then there wouldn't be any merit pay supported, now would there?

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm glad that you're sticking to the issue and not being a partisan hack :thumbsup:

Everyone keeps throwing around the socialism and marxist words without being able to define what they mean. Kind of like elitist :) The point is that if was a true marxist then there wouldn't be any merit pay supported, now would there?

As usual with anything Obama "says" ...... lets see what happens when it comes time to do something about it.

He promised to stop earmarks and wasteful pork too.

[Moby]

As usual with anything Obama "says" ...... lets see what happens when it comes time to do something about it.

He promised to stop earmarks and wasteful pork too.
OK, so if by 2012 we 're not under Marshal or Sharia Law will you guys finally stop listening to the pundits and start thinking for yourselves? Beck, Rush and Hannity have made enough money off of sheep herding that they will be fine.

[ROdger Right]

Id take on those odds.

[michiganFats]

After 20 years working in the private sector, I can't remember one time when either I or my co-workers received merit pay. Wages were based on seniority, and bonuses were spread evenly according to department with some departments being more equal than others. If you want to talk about real life Marxism, there is no better example then the American corporate world.

[GetAClue]

After 20 years working in the private sector, I can't remember one time when either I or my co-workers received merit pay. Wages were based on seniority, and bonuses were spread evenly according to department with some departments being more equal than others. If you want to talk about real life Marxism, there is no better example then the American corporate world.

Then you needed to find a different place to work. My question is, did anyone do anything to merit a bonus? Was the company profitable? It's funny because I have received such raises and bonuses along with many other's at my place of employment.

Even so, there are many un-scrupulous companies and un-reasonable bosses. However, your experience should not be seen as a barometer one way or another about the private sector no more than mine.

[doctordog]

OK, so if by 2012 we 're not under Marshal or Sharia Law will you guys finally stop listening to the pundits and start thinking for yourselves? Beck, Rush and Hannity have made enough money off of sheep herding that they will be fine.

those three don't hold a candle to Olbermann, Matthews, and Maddow

[michiganFats]

Then you needed to find a different place to work. My question is, did anyone do anything to merit a bonus? Was the company profitable? It's funny because I have received such raises and bonuses along with many other's at my place of employment.

Even so, there are many un-scrupulous companies and un-reasonable bosses. However, your experience should not be seen as a barometer one way or another about the private sector no more than mine.

I did find a different place to work, I work for myself now. And a few people did merit bonuses, most didn't. A commission is not a bonus, although it is merit pay. As far as your place of employment, if they are that good to you, stay there. Your individual experience at one place won't persuade me to forget everything I have personally seen. I don't expect my personal experience to be the barometer. I expect that many hard-working Americans are reading our posts, and I'm willing to bet that most of them share my experience, not yours. A company that pays a merit bonus is rare, and if you happen to be involved with one consider yourself lucky, but you aren't the norm, and I won't decide that, the people reading this will decide.I'm OK with that.

[Smurf-Herder]

OK, so if by 2012 we 're not under Marshal or Sharia Law will you guys finally stop listening to the pundits and start thinking for yourselves? Beck, Rush and Hannity have made enough money off of sheep herding that they will be fine.

No, because I believe it starts at the end of 2012. The beginning of his second term. The first term just sets up his power base.