Job Creation Is Always Expensive

[Moby]

This is an old post but worth understanding when talking about job creation.

1.5 Million of the jobs created in the past 8 years have come from a little known government program and it's been used to create minimum wage jobs. Often those jobs that can't sustain a family have cost $100,000s of dollars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/12/04/ST2007120402047.html?nav=rss_email/components


The USDA's Losing Effort
Costly Program for Rural Businesses Yields Dubious Results

By Gilbert M. Gaul
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 5, 2007; Page A01

Under a program to create jobs in rural America, the U.S. Department of Agriculture guaranteed $1.6 million in loans to Aztec Environmental Inc., an asbestos-removal company in Panama City, Fla.

Aztec did create jobs -- for hundreds of workers from Guatemala. "Locals didn't want the work," said Debbie Livingston, one of the owners.

Three years later, in February, Aztec went out of business after a federal investigation into allegations of environmental abuses and the hiring of illegal immigrants. Now, the USDA could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars on the loan.

The Aztec case is one graphic example of the scores of troubled loans that the USDA has backed in a little-known part of the agency's vast system of farm subsidies. Since the 1970s, the loan program has endured nearly $1.5 billion in losses while backing almost $14 billion in guarantees to private banks, a Washington Post investigation found.

Actual losses are almost surely higher, according to a Post analysis of thousands of USDA loans and grants. USDA officials refuse to disclose losses on loans to individual companies, even after they go out of business, arguing that it "could substantially harm" the companies' competitive positions.

More than three decades after the loan program was created, USDA officials still don't know whether it works. Funds have gone to firms that have hired foreign workers instead of Americans. Millions more have gone to failing and bankrupt businesses. Most of the jobs are not new. Many are low-tech and low-wage.

In addition to the loan program, the USDA has handed out almost half a billion dollars in rural development grants to businesses and nonprofits since 2001.

Loan guarantees or grants have gone to a car wash in Milford, Del.; a country club in Great Falls, Mont.; a movie theater in Smithfield, N.C.; a water park in Myrtle Beach, S.C.; an alligator hunter in Dade City, Fla.; snowmobile clubs in Maine; and dozens of gas stations and convenience stores in Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Arkansas.

"You know, some people could argue a job at minimum wage is better than no job at all," said William Hagy, the USDA's deputy administrator for business programs. "In a lot of rural areas, that's all there are."

In congressional testimony and news releases, USDA officials stress that the loan and grant programs have helped revitalize rural America by creating or saving 1.5 million jobs since 2001. But in some cases, creating a single job costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Meanwhile, the USDA's losses continue to climb. More than one in five loans -- nearly 2,700 -- result in a loss in the Business and Industry Guaranteed Loan Program, the agency's largest rural lending effort. Yet the USDA has asked for its money back from just 19 banks for fraud or mismanagement since 1974.

Congressional committees charged with overseeing USDA business programs rarely question the agency's claims or probe deeply into the programs. Instead, some lawmakers have aggressively lobbied the USDA to approve costly projects in their districts.

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[Cat slave]

Too bad the system we started with is so unpopular these days....capitalism.
Invest, produce, sell, expand, employ.....:disbelief: What a concept.

[Mr, gone]

Take away any one of those essential factors, and its only a matter of time - untill the capitalist system WILL colapse on itself.

The three factors that I see have been missing for at least a decade now are, investing, producing and selling.

[Cat slave]

That is true but the alternative is not desirable.

[Dale escondido]

Too bad the system we started with is so unpopular these days....capitalism.
Invest, produce, sell, expand, employ.....:disbelief: What a concept.

I know I sound like a broken record, but once we globalized non of these were possible in the US anymore.

[Cat slave]

Youre not a broken record and thats what it boils down to.

I would love to see a huge case of isolationism. Put people back to work in
our country making the things we use and need everyday. Theres nothing we
cant generate for ourselves....even oil, once we bump off the dirt people.:D

All it would take is an initial investment and away it would go. Free enterprise
and everyone has a shot at the gold ring....and a job at least. Not everyone
is gold ring material.

[Moby]

Too bad the system we started with is so unpopular these days....capitalism.
Invest, produce, sell, expand, employ.....:disbelief: What a concept.
I think that works with a growing base of consumers to sell to. During the baby boom it rocked but as American consumes more foreign goods and we export less that system will no longer work. Sure it will make those with great products and ideas money but there won't be enough to go around unless the base continues to increase.

That's why we need to invest in science, math and technology like never before. We have to out tech China or they will see the growing base of customers to buy their products and our economy will continue to fail.

The USA population is slowing so we have to sell to the world which is growing and we can't mass product cheap products. We have to provide the world with tech!

Even if we close our borders without a growing consumer base the economy will stall.

[Dale escondido]

I think that works with a growing base of consumers to sell to. During the baby boom it rocked but as American consumes more foreign goods and we export less that system will no longer work. Sure it will make those with great products and ideas money but there won't be enough to go around unless the base continues to increase.

That's why we need to invest in science, math and technology like never before. We have to out tech China or they will see the growing base of customers to buy their products and our economy will continue to fail.

The USA population is slowing so we have to sell to the world which is growing and we can't mass product cheap products. We have to provide the world with tech!

Even if we close our borders without a growing consumer base the economy will stall.

Tech is a double edge sword.
Many times it decreases the need for workers.
Also tech is now being used to manufacture as cheaply as possible a workable product with a predictible USE life.
We end up buying the same thing over and over thinking its cheap.

[Moby]

Tech is a double edge sword.
Many times it decreases the need for workers.
Also tech is now being used to manufacture as cheaply as possible a workable product with a predictible USE life.
We end up buying the same thing over and over thinking its cheap.
Tech has a way of creating new jobs because of the demand for the technology. Sure there will be people that lose jobs to tech just like they did in the 90s but more people ended up being employed as the tech was in demand. Most Americans saw an increase in income.

We can't compete with any country that has cheap health care. There's just no way to do it with the cost of our health care. Our only hope is to create tech jobs, that pay well so that more money will be spent to fuel the economy.

[Cat slave]

The frist drum beats from the first round "globaization" was that it would
produce markets for our exports and all would thrive. Other countries would
raise their standards of living, expand trade with their consumption and a win
would be for all.

All that got exported free of tariffs was our jobs!

"They" said we would become high tech and leave the manufacturing to less
educated countries. Yeah, right! And people are still lined up around the globe
to sell us that infamous bridge. But we cant buy it cause the jobs are
free bleeding and we are weakening daily.

[Dale escondido]

I dont understand the tech creating jobs concept.
In manufacturing thats just the opposite.
The simplicity of job skills required with high tech equiptment and the competition for lower workplace costs drive most out of states.
The companies that design and produce the high tech equiptment in my industry are in duncansville pa. and berlin.
They employ a few hundred people. the chinese have made an attempt to produce some equiptment but its been disastorous so far.
Weapons systems and aircraft manufacturing may be here somewhat, but that could change also.

[Hog Trash]

Job Creation Is Always Expensive Especialy when the jobs being created are either temporary or profitless, taxpayer funded government jobs. :crazzy::hammer:

The jobs that really amaze me are the green jobs being created for a crisis that doesn't exsist. Thanks Obama/Gore! :censored: :banghead:

[Dale escondido]

Especialy when the jobs being created are either temporary or profitless, taxpayer funded government jobs. :crazzy::hammer:

The jobs that really amaze me are the green jobs being created for a crisis that doesn't exsist. Thanks Obama/Gore! :censored: :banghead:

Greens the next bubble.

[SeedyROM]

SM, govt. contractor jobs cost more than private sector job costs because politicians never fight industry over the advertised costs versus actual costs. As govt. calls for new jobs the cost to taxpayers will be enormous. Bills that provide incentives for new jobs or new industries cost the taxpayer less than Pork Laden programs like USDA jobs. Hopefully the $1.6 million in loans will be repaid.

Congressional committees charged with overseeing USDA business programs rarely question the agency's claims or probe deeply into the programs. Instead, some lawmakers have aggressively lobbied the USDA to approve costly projects in their districts.


It doesn't surpise me no one in Congress questions these loans. Bunch of filthy thieving incompetant ass clowns.

[Cat slave]

The best thing that could happen would be if the government got the hell out
of the way and let us build our own economy but Obama is so beholding to
so many groups, on our soil and outside our country that hes gonna pay back
for these votes at all costs to citizens. Add to that the special interest groups
and orgs that got him elected and we are sunk so far I dont know when we
will see the light of day again.

How about that new GOP chair???????? An inspired pick! There is hope again.
With him heading things, the GOP may be just that again! St. Michael vs The
Anti Christ. The playing field just changed.

[Smurf-Herder]

The best thing that could happen would be if the government got the hell out
of the way and let us build our own economy but Obama is so beholding to
so many groups, on our soil and outside our country that hes gonna pay back
for these votes at all costs to citizens. Add to that the special interest groups
and orgs that got him elected and we are sunk so far I dont know when we
will see the light of day again.

How about that new GOP chair???????? An inspired pick! There is hope again.
With him heading things, the GOP may be just that again! St. Michael vs The
Anti Christ. The playing field just changed.

Palin / Jindal - 2012 !

:thumbsup:

[Moby]

Palin / Jindal - 2012 !

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[bairdi]

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:
And I would like to add to that:
:lmao2:

[Smurf-Herder]

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Then why do you insist on bashing her, every time we have to see your sorry posts, if you don't consider her a threat to Golden Boy?

[Moby]

Golden Boy?
I see that the mindless talking points haven't lost their charm with you.

How many times do I have to point out the hilarity that I find in Palin followers after she was winking at the crowd and crinkling her nose. She was making fun of her male supporters.

It's funny dude. That's why I keep laughing at her and the people that support and defend her. :thumbsup:

Must I keep explaining this to you every week?

[SeedyROM]

I see that the mindless talking points haven't lost their charm with you.

How many times do I have to point out the hilarity that I find in Palin followers after she was winking at the crowd and crinkling her nose. She was making fun of her male supporters.

It's funny dude. That's why I keep laughing at her and the people that support and defend her.

Must I keep explaining this to you every week?

If McCain had won we'd have a much less amusing cabinet to vet. No doubt the liberal choices are a damn joke and an insult to the country. Crooks, thugs, tax cheats, terrorist appeasers and socialist lovers.

Listening to all your mindless rants on Palin are also amusing, Sarah is so in your head!!! :lmao2: Sarah is in there deep!!!:lmao2: :D :lmao2:

[Cat slave]

Palin / Jindal - 2012 !

:thumbsup:

A thousand times...YES!!!!

[Cat slave]

Then why do you insist on bashing her, every time we have to see your sorry posts, if you don't consider her a threat to Golden Boy?

Its apparent!!!! Im starting to find it funny...worth a chuckle now and then.
Wonder who he thinks hes kidding?

[SeedyROM]

Its apparent!!!! Im starting to find it funny...worth a chuckle now and then.
Wonder who he thinks hes kidding?

The more powerful the opponent the more dems are intimidated. They threw out all values to attack the Pailin, her children and grandchildren and today thier still acting like sore losers. I haven't seen so much hatred since Jews started marching out of Germany while Hitler was claiming victory and still killing the remaining Jews. :lmao2: :D :lmao2:

Palin is so in Sirmoby's head, she's in there deep. :D

[Mr, gone]

Palin=indimidation???:lmao2: :lmao2:

[Hog Trash]

Originally Posted by Smurf-Herder
Then why do you insist on bashing her, every time we have to see your sorry posts, if you don't consider her a threat to Golden Boy?Its apparent!!!! Im starting to find it funny...worth a chuckle now and then.
Wonder who he thinks hes kidding?This hatred of Sarah Palin reminds me of a scene from one of my all time favorite movies, "Jerimiah Johnson". A band of Indians ride up on Jerimiah and his companion and the leader begins yelling at him in his Indian tongue. Jerimiah of course doesn't understand a word he's saying, so his companion is translating. Jerimiah ask him "why is he yelling"? His companion informs him, "because he's afraid of you". It's obvious the liberals fear of Palin is displayed by their devout hatred for her. There's simply no other rational explanation. The Republicans sense this fear and it is the main reason they are keeping her on the national front.

[Cat slave]

The more powerful the opponent the more dems are intimidated. They threw out all values to attack the Pailin, her children and grandchildren and today thier still acting like sore losers. I haven't seen so much hatred since Jews started marching out of Germany while Hitler was claiming victory and still killing the remaining Jews. :lmao2: :D :lmao2:

Palin is so in Sirmoby's head, she's in there deep. :D

I just have to share this....an example of our educational system. I do some
sub teaching at the high school. This sophomore comes up to the desk with
the study guide for the days work. Obviously theyve been talking about the
holocaust. She says with a very dazed look on her face, "uh, who is Hilter"?
Yes, "H-I-L-T-E-R". I replied, "dont you mean Hitler"? She says "oh" and
proceeds to explain how she does not understand the question which was
along the lines of how Hitler chose to deal with the Jew problem. I was
pretty much at a loss of where to begin so I just condensed it "he wanted
to kill all the Jews"! The student brightens up...."you mean he was a racist"?
This she could relate to. I said "yeah, big time" and she went happily back
to her desk with a new sense of mission.

The point of this post....amusing and sad at the same time
Also, that I looked at her and thought "Ill bet she would vote for BO".
And that our educational system is a disaster and I dont know how someone
can get to be in their upper teens and be so unaware.

Oh, well, just look at the last election. Duh.

[Cat slave]

This hatred of Sarah Palin reminds me of a scene from one of my all time favorite movies, "Jerimiah Johnson". A band of Indians ride up on Jerimiah and his companion and the leader begins yelling at him in his Indian tongue. Jerimiah of course doesn't understand a word he's saying, so his companion is translating. Jerimiah ask him "why is he yelling"? His companion informs him, "because he's afraid of you". It's obvious the liberals fear of Palin is displayed by their devout hatred for her. There's simply no other rational explanation.

It becomes more apparent with each passing day. Get ready for the
Palin Nation, several steps up from the Obamination.:taunt:

[Hog Trash]

I just have to share this....an example of our educational system. I do some
sub teaching at the high school. This sophomore comes up to the desk with
the study guide for the days work. Obviously theyve been talking about the
holocaust. She says with a very dazed look on her face, "uh, who is Hilter"?
Yes, "H-I-L-T-E-R". I replied, "dont you mean Hitler"? She says "oh" and
proceeds to explain how she does not understand the question which was
along the lines of how Hitler chose to deal with the Jew problem. I was
pretty much at a loss of where to begin so I just condensed it "he wanted
to kill all the Jews"! The student brightens up...."you mean he was a racist"?
This she could relate to. I said "yeah, big time" and she went happily back
to her desk with a new sense of mission.

The point of this post....amusing and sad at the same time
Also, that I looked at her and thought "Ill bet she would vote for BO".
And that our educational system is a disaster and I dont know how someone
can get to be in their upper teens and be so unaware.

Oh, well, just look at the last election. Duh.The student will only be happy untill she finds out Jews no longer fall under the liberal umbrella of protection of political correctness.

Muslims now take priority over the Jews...It will be awful to see this childs, young liberal bubble busted. :melodramatic: If you think she's brainwased now, wait untill she graduates to college.

[SeedyROM]

I just have to share this....an example of our educational system. I do some
sub teaching at the high school. This sophomore comes up to the desk with
the study guide for the days work. Obviously theyve been talking about the
holocaust. She says with a very dazed look on her face, "uh, who is Hilter"?
Yes, "H-I-L-T-E-R". I replied, "dont you mean Hitler"? She says "oh" and
proceeds to explain how she does not understand the question which was
along the lines of how Hitler chose to deal with the Jew problem. I was
pretty much at a loss of where to begin so I just condensed it "he wanted
to kill all the Jews"! The student brightens up...."you mean he was a racist"?
This she could relate to. I said "yeah, big time" and she went happily back
to her desk with a new sense of mission.

The point of this post....amusing and sad at the same time
Also, that I looked at her and thought "Ill bet she would vote for BO".
And that our educational system is a disaster and I dont know how someone
can get to be in their upper teens and be so unaware.

Oh, well, just look at the last election. Duh.

Many of the uniformed vote along one party all the time. The girl must have slept through world history, Hitler was out to kill the French, UK etc, etc. I don't remember racism being an issue with Hilter, he hated all races except German.

Palin is so good they have to keep the hate going to fool the masses. The same with patriot Joe the Plumber who is in the news again. Dems fear honest people. :thumbsup:

[Mr, gone]

Joe the plumber?!?:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[SeedyROM]

LOL, isn't it funny, I think so too. :thumbsup: Dems made JTP even more famous than McCain did. Now he's going on the speaking circuit and he'll make big bucks and get more publicity and free press from the tabula rasa's. We may see JTP run for public office.:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: