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View Full Version : UAW busting, Southern style


Moby
12-18-2008, 04:41 PM
I don't agree with the title of the article but when you have Bob Corker subsidizing foreign auto manufacturing while fighting to not help US workers, there's a problem.

The numbers highlighted in the article are pretty surprising to me.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-raynor18-2008dec18,0,4066838.story
Foreign carmakers are enlisting the help of GOP senators from states in the South to break the union.
By Bruce Raynor
December 18, 2008

The foreign nonunion auto companies located in the South have a plan to reduce wages and benefits at their factories in the United States. And to do it, they need to destroy the United Auto Workers.

Last week, Senate Republicans from some Southern states went to work trying to do just that, on the foreign car companies' behalf. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Sen. Bob Corker ( R-Tenn.) and Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) -- representatives from states that subsidize companies such as Honda, Volkswagen, Toyota and Nissan -- first tried to force the UAW to take reductions in wages and benefits as a condition for supporting the auto industry bailout bill. When the UAW refused, those senators torpedoed the bill.

They claimed that they couldn't support the bill without specifics about how wages would be "restructured." They didn't, however, require such specificity when it came to bailing out the financial sector. Their grandstanding, and the government's generally lackluster response to the auto crisis, highlight many of the problems that have caused our current economic mess: the lack of concern about manufacturing, the privileged way our government treats the financial sector, and political support given to companies that attempt to slash worker's wages.

When one compares how the auto industry and the financial sector are being treated by Congress, the double standard is staggering. In the financial sector, employee compensation makes up a huge percentage of costs. According to the New York state comptroller, it accounted for more than 60% of 2007 revenues for the seven largest financial firms in New York.

At Goldman Sachs, for example, employee compensation made up 71% of total operating expenses in 2007. In the auto industry, by contrast, autoworker compensation makes up less than 10% of the cost of manufacturing a car. Hundreds of billions were given to the financial-services industry with barely a question about compensation; the auto bailout, however, was sunk on this issue alone.


UAW President Ron Gettelfinger realized that the existence of the union was under attack, which is why he refused to give in to the Senate Republicans' demands that the UAW make further concessions. I say "further" because the union has already conceded a lot. Its 2007 contract introduced a two-tier contract to pay new hires $15 an hour (instead of $28) with no defined pension plan and dramatic cuts to their health insurance. In addition, the UAW agreed that healthcare benefits for existing retirees would be transferred from the auto companies to an independent trust. With the transferring of the healthcare costs, the labor cost gap between the Big Three and the foreign transplants will be almost eliminated by the end of the current contracts.

These concessions go some distance toward leveling the playing field (retiree costs are still a factor for the Big Three). But what the foreign car companies want is to level -- which is to say, wipe out -- the union. They currently discourage their workforce from organizing by paying wages comparable to the Big Three's UAW contracts. In fact, Toyota's per-hour wages are actually above UAW wages.

However, an internal Toyota report, leaked to the Detroit Free Press last year, reveals that the company wants to slash $300 million out of its rising labor costs by 2011. The report indicated that Toyota no longer wants to "tie [itself] so closely to the U.S. auto industry." Instead, the company intends to benchmark the prevailing manufacturing wage in the state in which a plant is located. The Free Press reported that in Kentucky, where the company is headquartered, this wage is $12.64 an hour, according to federal labor statistics, less than half Toyota's $30-an-hour wage.

If the companies, with the support of their senators, can wipe out or greatly weaken the UAW, they will be free to implement their plan.

But their plan will not work. The Bush administration is likely to keep the Big Three alive long enough for President-elect Barack Obama to construct a real solution. Democrats and even most Republicans understand that a nation that has already lost 2 million jobs this year cannot afford to put at risk 3 million more.

What the economy needs now is rising wages so the country can get on the path of wage-driven consumption growth. That means stronger unions. Indeed, I believe eventually it will mean the unionization of the entire U.S. auto industry.

Bruce Raynor is the general president of Unite Here, a union of 465,000 workers in the apparel, textile, laundry, food service, distribution, hotel and gaming industries.

Cat slave
12-18-2008, 10:47 PM
Yes, Corker is in it for Corker! What a sneaky, classless liar. What a hick!
We in TN just keep screwing up by allowing a so called representative in
WA auction away out countrys manufacturing base. He deserves a huge
thump on the head for starters!!!!

Why isnt anyone talking about the auto industries in other countries being
in distress???? Its not just the big 3. Its global and other governments are
supporting their own.

Way past time for another tea party! Way, way past.

Binky
12-18-2008, 11:55 PM
And why haven't we heard about any of this? Stands to reason these foreign companies would want to break the UAW. Selective reporting. :mad:

Cat slave
12-19-2008, 10:22 AM
Isnt it though! Reporting as usual. France and Germany are the two that I
read about lately. And what Uncle Sam doing?? Strutting around with an over
blown sense of righteous indignation and offended beyond words...of course,
this is all a smoke screen to give people something else to rattle about and take
their attention of the collasal blunder/handout of our money to greedy banking friends....... $700 billion with no accountability or transparency. None...just
thrown to the wind.

Why is no one talking about the healthy banks that were forced to take some of
this money? That would just be so they could be drug under the umbrella of
guilt by acceptance and eventual nationalization of the entire system which
of course will have a component of Sharia banking.

People better wake up and get a brain and use it.

Cat slave
12-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I don't agree with the title of the article but when you have Bob Corker subsidizing foreign auto manufacturing while fighting to not help US workers, there's a problem.

The numbers highlighted in the article are pretty surprising to me.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-raynor18-2008dec18,0,4066838.story


I needed to come back and read the article more thoroughly. Who has a
hard time understanding that most retirees automatically are pushed over to
Medicare at age 62 or 65 (younger workers will have a higher "retirement"
age). This is not a choice or an option. Medicare becomes the primary
insurance. BC/BS becomes the secondary picking up a very small amount
of the bill. Co pays are up, deductibles are up....they didnt used to exist
and I dont have a problem with everyone paying into the system, but where
TF does it end? The prescription coverage from the covered UAW workers
is really a joke (retired). You can look on CareMark and see that the so
called insurance is paying pennies if that on scripts. We dont even need
that coverage. Generics are here and growing like Kudzoo and gawd only
knows where the **** comes from. They are not doing us any favors
and few are smart enough on their feet to question it and research it.
Actually my daughter and mother who have no presctiption plan get their
"drugs" as cheaply as we do. So thats another misleading claim that we
are rolling in insurance benefits.

Its always a good idea to talk to someone who is living it and get the
facts and not be spoon fed by a very left leaning media.

Moby
12-19-2008, 11:56 AM
I needed to come back and read the article more thoroughly. Who has a
hard time understanding that most retirees automatically are pushed over to
Medicare at age 62 or 65 (younger workers will have a higher "retirement"
age). This is not a choice or an option. Medicare becomes the primary
insurance. BC/BS becomes the secondary picking up a very small amount
of the bill. Co pays are up, deductibles are up....they didnt used to exist
and I dont have a problem with everyone paying into the system, but where
TF does it end? The prescription coverage from the covered UAW workers
is really a joke (retired). You can look on CareMark and see that the so
called insurance is paying pennies if that on scripts. We dont even need
that coverage. Generics are here and growing like Kudzoo and gawd only
knows where the **** comes from. They are not doing us any favors
and few are smart enough on their feet to question it and research it.
Actually my daughter and mother who have no presctiption plan get their
"drugs" as cheaply as we do. So thats another misleading claim that we
are rolling in insurance benefits.

Its always a good idea to talk to someone who is living it and get the
facts and not be spoon fed by a very left leaning media.
Again I'm having a hard time following your logic and conclusions.

This article that you claim that is spoon feeding and should probably be ignored claims that the banks paid out 70% in labor costs while the auto industry pays out 10%. The article is making the claim that perhaps auto workers are more deserving.

Isn't that what you're pushing for?

Why so much hostility towards those that are trying to help your cause?

Bill
12-19-2008, 06:52 PM
Auto workers are middle class.

Finance workers are upper class.

Case closed - republicans have been working to destroy the middle class for decades.

And to give the upper class corporate welfare and backroom deals and favors.

Cat slave
12-20-2008, 11:21 AM
Again I'm having a hard time following your logic and conclusions.

This article that you claim that is spoon feeding and should probably be ignored claims that the banks paid out 70% in labor costs while the auto industry pays out 10%. The article is making the claim that perhaps auto workers are more deserving.

Isn't that what you're pushing for?

Why so much hostility towards those that are trying to help your cause?

First of all, its difficult to see that anyone is trying to help our cause.
I get so tired of union workers being attacked when much of it is pure lies.
We happen to know!

The $70+ hour wage including benefits for a production worker is pure garbage. The union worker has been vilified beyond all reason.

And yes, workers are far more deserving...they actually work.

I think the next war is not going to be between the races, I think it is
going to be between the upper and lower classes....there is little middle class
left.

Binky
12-20-2008, 12:02 PM
The cost of living, medical and dental are all figured into that hourly wage. They are all broken down and estimated as to what each would cost per hour and then added into the actual working wage. The actual hourly wage is really $25 and under, depending on whether or not one is a recent hire.

If you took the pay and bennies of teachers, added them all together you would find they make more than we are led to believe. But just taking their actual hourly wage alone without factoring anything else in, they make far less.

In jobs with unions, there are always those items factored in to make up their hourly wage. If they were working as millions do without union backing, or insurance, etc., they would all be working for far less and just above the minimum wage.

Cat slave
12-20-2008, 06:41 PM
It also includes administration of these programs which we know is bloated
beyond words and probably makes up a great percentage of that estimate.

That level playing field everyones been so enamored with will serve to lower
wages all American citizens to near minimum wage levels. Thats the whole
idea. Make us competitive with all the other third world countries so we can
"compete"....yeah, right, whos gonna buy the crap when everyone is struggling
just to live. This is the plan and when all is said and done, the elites will have
theirs and we will have nothing. Anything wrong with that picture? Enter,
the worker bees...that would be us.

doctordog
12-20-2008, 08:23 PM
First of all, its difficult to see that anyone is trying to help our cause.
I get so tired of union workers being attacked when much of it is pure lies.
We happen to know!

The $70+ hour wage including benefits for a production worker is pure garbage. The union worker has been vilified beyond all reason.

And yes, workers are far more deserving...they actually work.

I think the next war is not going to be between the races, I think it is
going to be between the upper and lower classes....there is little middle class
left.

Punching at Time clock is the easiest job in today's economy. Union workers punch a clock, take their mandatory breaks, get paid by "job banks" in the case of the UAW, punch out and go home. They are not on call through holidays and vacation, they don't answer for anyone but themselves, very little accountability for what they make. I have been on both sides and can tell you the even though I make more now with more responsibility, I miss the days of leaving work at work.

Cat slave
12-21-2008, 12:54 AM
Punching at Time clock is the easiest job in today's economy. Union workers punch a clock, take their mandatory breaks, get paid by "job banks" in the case of the UAW, punch out and go home. They are not on call through holidays and vacation, they don't answer for anyone but themselves, very little accountability for what they make. I have been on both sides and can tell you the even though I make more now with more responsibility, I miss the days of leaving work at work.

Hey if you signed up for overtime you would have been called in. Guess you
didnt!

It would take a pretty dense individual to not be able to leave the hum drum
of a production line....at work!

Moby
12-21-2008, 11:35 AM
First of all, its difficult to see that anyone is trying to help our cause.
Maybe you should read the articles. It seems like you have a knee jerk reaction and are angry at the very people that are trying to help you just because they're not of the party that you thought was helping you.

Get over it.

doctordog
12-21-2008, 08:17 PM
Hey if you signed up for overtime you would have been called in. Guess you
didnt!

It would take a pretty dense individual to not be able to leave the hum drum
of a production line....at work!

Signing up is voluntary not required, it is required of salaried workers, so yes management should be paid more versus the time clock puncher. Being able to leave the job at work was my point, management should be paid at a higher rate as the job comes first.

Cat slave
12-21-2008, 09:20 PM
Maybe you should read the articles. It seems like you have a knee jerk reaction and are angry at the very people that are trying to help you just because they're not of the party that you thought was helping you.

Get over it.

It didnt take Canada very long to lend their support to the American auto cos.
Actually they didnt need as long to add two and two.

Angry at the people trying to help??????? Who would that be???? And I have
no faith in either party...they are all after only one thing...power and money.

And....Ill get over it when I please!

Cat slave
12-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Signing up is voluntary not required, it is required of salaried workers, so yes management should be paid more versus the time clock puncher. Being able to leave the job at work was my point, management should be paid at a higher rate as the job comes first.

Isnt it simply salaried vs production? And I dont disagree that management
should be paid more than the clock puncher, but how much more? One would
think that someone in management would bring skills and judgment to the table.
From the looks of a lot of corporations I think thats debatable dont you?

doctordog
12-22-2008, 01:23 AM
Isnt it simply salaried vs production? And I dont disagree that management
should be paid more than the clock puncher, but how much more? One would
think that someone in management would bring skills and judgment to the table.
From the looks of a lot of corporations I think thats debatable dont you?

Hell yes, I could retire on a lot less than one years salary fro some of these peopel

Cat slave
12-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Lets form a line and take a number.

Binky
12-22-2008, 02:26 PM
Since you're all talking about management and assembly line workers, here's one for ya. A friend of ours tells us that in his department, (he builds robots and is skilled trades), there are 15 foremans for 10 people. WTF? Maybe these big corporations should be getting rid of some managers. He said there is so much waste that it boggles the mind. Another WTF? comes to mind. It's no wonder they are having trouble keeping afloat what with all the excessive buttwads they have that are about useless, and the vast mismanagement. Yet, the first thing people bitch about are union members. Well, since history has a way of repeating itself, there may come a day when there won't be anymore unions. If and when that happens, God help those working in those places, because it'll revert back to the way it was to begin with, where the abusive managers browbeat, bully and do bodily harm on the workers. Workers weren't even allowed to go to the restroom except on their meager little break.

Moby
12-22-2008, 03:24 PM
there are 15 foremans for 10 people.
A buddy of mine worked for a company where he managed 1 other guy for 3 years. He was part of a team and his manager managed him and one other guy.

Of the people he managed one guy managed guy that supervised (not managed because that's a different pay grade) 2 guys that did some work. He also managed 1 other guy that did some work.

So basically his boss managed 8 people and only 3 of them did any work. The other 5 basically managed or supervised those 3 people.

That's kind of how our government works.

Cat slave
12-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Since you're all talking about management and assembly line workers, here's one for ya. A friend of ours tells us that in his department, (he builds robots and is skilled trades), there are 15 foremans for 10 people. WTF? Maybe these big corporations should be getting rid of some managers. He said there is so much waste that it boggles the mind. Another WTF? comes to mind. It's no wonder they are having trouble keeping afloat what with all the excessive buttwads they have that are about useless, and the vast mismanagement. Yet, the first thing people bitch about are union members. Well, since history has a way of repeating itself, there may come a day when there won't be anymore unions. If and when that happens, God help those working in those places, because it'll revert back to the way it was to begin with, where the abusive managers browbeat, bully and do bodily harm on the workers. Workers weren't even allowed to go to the restroom except on their meager little break.


Thats exactly where all this is going. That "level playing field" again.
Us and them and you know which has control over who!

Cat slave
12-22-2008, 06:53 PM
If that werent so profound and too close to the mark, it would be laughable.