Private sector sheds 250,000 jobs in November

[Moby]

Things just keep getting worse

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081203/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_employment_adp

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Private employers cut 250,000 jobs in November, the most in seven years, a report by a private employment service said on Wednesday.

ADP Employer Services also said it revised the number of jobs cut in October to 179,000 from the originally reported loss of 157,000.

Economists had expected the ADP report to show 200,000 private-sector jobs were lost in November, according to the median of forecasts in a Reuters poll. The 24 forecasts ranged from a drop of 350,000 to a decline of 175,000.

The ADP Employer Services report was jointly developed with Macroeconomic Advisers LLC.

(Reporting by Burton Frierson; Editing by Tom Hals)

[kres24GT]

As government gets bigger, its only going to get worse. Better get used to posting these updates constantly. This last election was probably our last chance, we chose status quo and this is what we get. Now that government is trying to bailout all these failed businesses to help their corporate buddies, I'd say stick a fork in us.

[Moby]

As government gets bigger, its only going to get worse. Better get used to posting these updates constantly. This last election was probably our last chance, we chose status quo and this is what we get. Now that government is trying to bailout all these failed businesses to help their corporate buddies, I'd say stick a fork in us.
Weren't there some issues that you wanted to talk about?

I'm ready if you decide to stop the partisan speak :thumbsup:

[Hog Trash]

Unless Obama abandons his expensive big government campaign promises, things will only get worse. His "expert" financial advisers better get busy advising.

My guess is, they're all to busy conniving about how they're going to get richer off the situation......Poor stupid us. :lmao2:

[Moby]

Unless Obama abandons his expensive big government campaign promises, things will only get worse. His "expert" financial advisers better get busy advising.

My guess is, they're all to busy conniving about how they're going to get richer off the situation......Poor stupid us. :lmao2:
Were you paying attention to the last 8 years? I know you mentioned that you don't like to look at history and focus on the hear and now but the current deficits and economic problems are part of that aren't they?

[bairdi]

Were you paying attention to the last 8 years? I know you mentioned that you don't like to look at history and focus on the hear and now but the current deficits and economic problems are part of that aren't they?
My guess would be that since hog is not at the "opposite ends of the spectrum" with the current administration, he obviously is oblivious to the current economic crisis. He is waiting for the one that is coming as soon as Obama takes the oath of office. Besides that, the past eight years culminated in the arrival on the scene of Sarah Palin which has put him in Hog Heaven. :lmao2:

[Dale escondido]

Were you paying attention to the last 8 years? I know you mentioned that you don't like to look at history and focus on the hear and now but the current deficits and economic problems are part of that aren't they?

Bush definitly sped up things but this is a course we have been on thirty or more years.
Blaming bush alone is just partisan rheteroic.
Blame Carter Reagan Bush 1-2 and Clinton
Thats a start.

[SeedyROM]

Blaming Bush is not going to fly here, it is time for you people to face the music!! It is easier to demonize one man and pretend democrats didn't do anything wrong. Yet the writing is on the wall. Both parties screwed up and democrats were to blame for failure to comprehend let alone give a damn about anyone but themselves. When you stop pretending the blame is on one party or pretending your party is innocent you might grasp one percent of the problem. Independant voters could careless about party ideals, thier ideals are crap on paper, a failure in real life and we pay for it$$$$$$

Bush warned, democrats turned a deaf ear to legitimate warning signals. Republicans didn't fight the dems hard enough. Now dems want to print money like that will solve the problem. Throwing money at the problem will not work. Democrats will destroy any chance of ending the recession in 8 to 10 months. Most recessions don't last long fyi. FDR made several mistakes throwing money around and that recession grew into a great depression.

The fundmentals of the economy are still strong, if you don't know what that means then you need to educate yourself or ask the appropriate questions. Last time I checked 94% of Americans still have jobs, 93.5% of Americans are contributing to a declining economy that will right itself in the 3rd quarter of 2009. Some will call the market bottom, the economy is more than just the stock or housing market.

The media idiots also helped to destroy this economy..........if you don't believe me, then you haven't learned the art of deception and manipulation and the NLP methods of fooling the masses used by industry, lobbiests and idiot politicians. The media beat up on anyone who said the housing market was in trouble. Guess who owns the media these days? One sided research leads to propoganda. Wallstreet and corporations use propoganda to hype thier industry.

Bush, Dems and Reps refused to repeal laws to protect the Fed and curtail irrationally exuberant loan programs. The proof is on the White House website. Bill Clinton is also responsible with the Repeal of Glass Stegall and well as modifications to the CRA. I believe Dems were so hateful and such pathetic sore losers over the 2000 election that they just turned a blind eye to any Rep outcry for Change!!! Both parties are guilty but if you look back to the build up of hate, spite and political ignorance between these 2 groups you'll see what a failure they truely are. Dumb money are calling the shots in DC. If Obama can flatten out the decline then we'll see 1% to 2% growth by late 2009. If he spends too much and follows that whack job witch Pelosi.......we are doomed till...............................????

Take a look at the warnings Bush gave to Congress and Industry.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html
For many years the President and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at a housing government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties. President Bush publicly called for GSE reform 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.

2001 April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

2002 May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003 January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004 February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005 April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

2007 July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008 January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

[asroc]

What a nonpartisan source!

[Moby]

Blaming Bush is not going to fly here, it is time for you people to face the music!!
You're going off the deep end again Seedy.

Sometimes people in charge need to accept some responsibility and when they had total party support and vast media networks created by long time family supporters it's even more important to accept failure.

Was it ALL Bush's fault, of course not but as Dale said, he sped up the process and it turns out sped it up more than anyone else has in the history of the world. Deficits, deregulation, borrow and spend economy and push everything through the media.

Now some people are filled with nothing but hate.

That's what South Carolina wanted when they bought into the media scare tactics in the 200 primary that have become mainstream today. They knew that Bush had bankrupted 3 businesses, they knew that his family made vast sums of money in the S&L crisis and they knew he'd fuck all of us again.

But they got lower taxes for a few years. :thumbsup:

[Hog Trash]

My guess would be that since hog is not at the "opposite ends of the spectrum" with the current administration, he obviously is oblivious to the current economic crisis. He is waiting for the one that is coming as soon as Obama takes the oath of office. Besides that, the past eight years culminated in the arrival on the scene of Sarah Palin which has put him in Hog Heaven. :lmao2:There you go again with that same old ignorant liberal belief that anybody who disagrees with you and your messiah, must be pro-Bush.

Your poor little brains just don't seem to be able to differenciate.

[Hog Trash]

What a nonpartisan source!Non-partisan sources are hard to find anymore. We can only hope to find sources that are not biased to the point of being dishonest.

Eample: If the NRA is reporting on a liberal anti-gun activest, or gun crime statistics do we dismiss the report because the source is "biased'?

Of course not because you won't hear the opposing statistics or view from a liberal like-minded source, as they have no problem with the position.

Being biased or having an agenda does not necessarily make a source dishonest or unreliable, whether they are left or right.

[Dale escondido]

Non-partisan sources are hard to find anymore. We can only hope to find sources that are not biased to the point of being dishonest.

Eample: If the NRA is reporting on a liberal anti-gun activest, or gun crime statistics do we dismiss the report because the source is "biased'?

Of course not because you won't hear the opposing statistics or view from a liberal like-minded source, as they have no problem with the position.

Being biased or having an agenda does not necessarily make a source dishonest or unreliable, whether they are left or right.

You need a source to verify the source of your source materials.:lmao2:

Lieing has become art.
If it looks or sounds good or confirms our belief it true.
We need a source police:thumbsup:

[bairdi]

There you go again with that same old ignorant liberal belief that anybody who disagrees with you and your messiah, must be pro-Bush.

Your poor little brains just don't seem to be able to differenciate.
As usual, the conclusions you have reached are totally off the mark. Again, your poor little brains just don't seem to be able to comprehend.

[kres24GT]

Weren't there some issues that you wanted to talk about?

I'm ready if you decide to stop the partisan speak :thumbsup:


The economy is an issue. Things are bad, very bad, and its probable we aren't going to be get out of it because what got us into this mess, is what is going to be used to get us out. Nothing partisan about my post at all Moby.


Big government has ruined this country, the solution to every problem is big government. When will we as voters be smart enough to call our "representatives" and tell them stay out of our business and lives? I wrote both my Senators and my Congressman today saying just that.

[Binky]

We can sit here all day and play the blame game. But the fact of the matter is, America is in a pickle jar and it's turning more sour each and everyday. While blaming others seems to be the norm, it doesn't however, do one damn bit of good. It isn't going to solve a damn thing. Jobs have been lost. The cost of living has become outrageous. The financial industry has gone boom, boom, boom, due to greed. The housing industry bubble has busted. Most home construction has stopped. People can no longer afford to spend on wannabe money (credit cards). Foreclosures are skyrocketing.

Who's to blame? What the hell difference does it make? What's done is done. Try this on for size....how about we spend energy into trying to find ways to solve the problem, rather than to wallow in negativity? It's time we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with repairing the damage that's been done.

[kres24GT]

We can sit here all day and play the blame game. But the fact of the matter is, America is in a pickle jar and it's turning more sour each and everyday. While blaming others seems to be the norm, it doesn't however, do one damn bit of good. It isn't going to solve a damn thing. Jobs have been lost. The cost of living has become outrageous. The financial industry has gone boom, boom, boom, due to greed. The housing industry bubble has busted. Most home construction has stopped. People can no longer afford to spend on wannabe money (credit cards). Foreclosures are skyrocketing.

Who's to blame? What the hell difference does it make? What's done is done. Try this on for size....how about we spend energy into trying to find ways to solve the problem, rather than to wallow in negativity? It's time we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with repairing the damage that's been done.


Laying blame is more important than ever. As now both parties agree on almost everything that really matters, the blame game is very important.

[Hog Trash]

We can sit here all day and play the blame game. But the fact of the matter is, America is in a pickle jar and it's turning more sour each and everyday. While blaming others seems to be the norm, it doesn't however, do one damn bit of good. It isn't going to solve a damn thing. Jobs have been lost. The cost of living has become outrageous. The financial industry has gone boom, boom, boom, due to greed. The housing industry bubble has busted. Most home construction has stopped. People can no longer afford to spend on wannabe money (credit cards). Foreclosures are skyrocketing.

Who's to blame? What the hell difference does it make? What's done is done. Try this on for size....how about we spend energy into trying to find ways to solve the problem, rather than to wallow in negativity? It's time we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with repairing the damage that's been done.There is much blame to lay on people who thought the solution to the problem was to elect another big spending, big government, Washington insider, President.

People need to be insulted, ridiculed and shamed untill enough of them learn to change their voting habits that are destroying our country, our lives and our future.

[Binky]

Laying blame is more important than ever. As now both parties agree on almost everything that really matters, the blame game is very important.


But very unproductive! :banghead:

[Moby]

OK, so everyone is bitching about this and that and how it's going to get worse. We know it's going to get worse because we're not at the bottom yet.

So, what should we do about it?

Kres, Hog, you've told us what we shouldn't do about it. Hog, I know that you wanted to continue doing what we've been doing but I think that's obviously failed.

Kres, what should we do about it? We have a big government and we just saw it's size increase drastically. Reagan was able to manage it's growth and so was Clinton, but Nixon and the Bush's expanded it without limits.

Hog, Kres, Anyone, What should we do?

[Hog Trash]

So, what should we do about it?

Hog, you've told us what we shouldn't do about it. Hog, I know that you wanted to continue doing what we've been doing but I think that's obviously failed.

Kres, what should we do about it? We have a big government and we just saw it's size increase drastically. Reagan was able to manage it's growth and so was Clinton, but Nixon and the Bush's expanded it without limits.

Hog, Kres, Anyone, What should we do?There's not much we can do for the next 4 years. We have the same tax and spend big government proponents that got us where we now are.

We might try constantly calling our Representatives for the next 4 years and beg them to reject each new spending or tax proposal that comes to the floor.

Even If Obama was to die in office, everyone in line under him are of the same big government mentality and would do nothing to change anything.

A Ron Paul type leadership is the only thing that will change the course we have taken but he is getting old and I see no one on the horizon to replace him.Hog, I know that you wanted to continue doing what we've been doing but I think that's obviously failed.
I think most people here know me better than that, and are aware that you are trying to mislead them, SM. If they don't, then they are as big a fool as you.

[kres24GT]

I have been pretty clear, get government out of it. It's not just spending. We have to get rid of regulation that limits small business and stifles competition..... the solution is simple, get government out of our lives. Government has gotten so big under Bush and the Republicans that we cannot longer operate as a functional society. We must cut government, spending, regulation, etc at all levels. Also we must have consequences for actions. You can't run a business, then you go out of business. You can't keep a job, you starve. Welfare and other like big government programs must end.


Yes, it will be a hard transition,. but the only alternative is the police state we are currently moving for where 99% of us will live in poverty and be essentially slaves to the state.

[Dale escondido]

Being a conspiracy nut I believe we are now on the fast track to a one world currency.
Crash the dollar and weaken the US, homoginize the world and return to the caste system.
Oh yea, we get to pay back the rest of the world for the market crash we caused.

[asroc]

Non-partisan sources are hard to find anymore. We can only hope to find sources that are not biased to the point of being dishonest.

Eample: If the NRA is reporting on a liberal anti-gun activest, or gun crime statistics do we dismiss the report because the source is "biased'?

Of course not because you won't hear the opposing statistics or view from a liberal like-minded source, as they have no problem with the position.

Being biased or having an agenda does not necessarily make a source dishonest or unreliable, whether they are left or right.

It depends on the story, the source, the context.

This administration is passing every buck it possibly can in an effort to repair its reputation, and possibly create some kind of legacy for itself in history.

I'm going to take the word of independent sources over one I've learned almost a decade ago not to trust.

It's sort of like the way you guys write off the New York Times, except it makes sense.

[Hog Trash]

Being a conspiracy nut I believe we are now on the fast track to a one world currency.
It's inevitable and just a matter of time.

[Cat slave]

You guys are right! Unfortunately.

[Mr, gone]

There is nothing 'WE' can do. Don't you fools get it - The vast majority of us are just the pawns... The king, queen, bishops, knights and rooks are made up of government, multi-national corporations and special interests groups. Each one of them giving a reach around to the other! :banghead:

Without another civil war (which technology and overpopulation has rendered useless), or a 180 degree change in government and corporate culture - all the rest of us can do is bend over and take it with a good dose of alcohol and/or drugs to help mitigate the pain.

Maybe buy stock in anheiser-bush, or one of the pharmacuticals that produce the largest amount of Benzodiazapines. The returns may help you secure food and shelter when the really foul shit hits the fan.:D

[Cat slave]

There is always something that can be done. We just havent gotten the
message on what it is yet. Never say never!

[Moby]

A population that sits around and listens to other people's opinions all day long can NOT survive. That's why we all need to turn off the radio, stop acting like the drug addicts and drop outs are experts and look who's signing their pay checks.

[Hog Trash]

A population that sits around and listens to other people's opinions all day long can NOT survive. That's why we all need to turn off the radio, stop acting like the drug addicts and drop outs are experts and look who's signing their pay checks.You liberals sure do hate that radio. I suppose you guys view it as the biggest threat to your hard core, left wing, liberal idealism.

You believe that when the "Fairness In Broadcasting Act" passes Congress, you lefties will then have complete control of the Media.

You're forgetting the internet, or do you have plans for that too? Don't you see the danger in one political ideology having complete Media control?

[Mr. Blue]

I don't really think anything can be done. I literally think we have to let it get so bad that we have a revolution of sorts. Maybe not taking up arms against the powers that be, but a basic ideological revolution to return us to some level of sanity.

Has government been able to solve any of our problems? Honestly looking at that we've been lax in so many areas for so long that it's just become ridiculous. Now I won't go over point by point, but I will do a few:

Energy Independence...people make it like we didn't see a future oil crisis on the horizon, hellooooo, non-renewable energy, let's base our whole existence on it. Now, we should have been making a move on this since the 70's or earlier...but...nope. So, if the government can't see this commonsense problem, if they can't predict this 2 + 2 = 4 type scenario, how the hell are they going to fix any problems?

Our foreign policy failures are just too many to list, but we've been muddling with areas of the world we should be wasting any time or resources on. Sorry, Middle East is a theocracy driven society, the western world shouldn't be there, but we have to because *tada* we didn't move off oil. I mean France, god, FRANCE, has more forethought in this area and has 80% of its energy coming from Nuclear plants.

So the chickens have come to roost...I think we have to just let it get bad enough that the Americans have a second revolution against the powers that be because they're disconnected from the real world.

[Dale escondido]

[QUOTE=Mr. Blue]I don't really think anything can be done. I literally think we have to let it get so bad that we have a revolution of sorts. Maybe not taking up arms against the powers that be, but a basic ideological revolution to return us to some level of sanity.

Has government been able to solve any of our problems? Honestly looking at that we've been lax in so many areas for so long that it's just become ridiculous. Now I won't go over point by point, but I will do a few:

Energy Independence...people make it like we didn't see a future oil crisis on the horizon, hellooooo, non-renewable energy, let's base our whole existence on it. Now, we should have been making a move on this since the 70's or earlier...but...nope. So, if the government can't see this commonsense problem, if they can't predict this 2 + 2 = 4 type scenario, how the hell are they going to fix any problems?
[quote=Mr. Blue]


And what is bad enough?
I agree we will at some time reach the point of a revolution of some sorts.
I believe the art of changing our worlds in spite of our desires to the new world is a science.
Push, dont push, then push again and we gripe and do nothing.
We are just the static on the radio, when its bad enough you address it until its gone.
I think food shortages might cause crisis, but the rest I just dont know.
We seem very forgiving of inept decisions from above.

[SeedyROM]

You're going off the deep end again Seedy.

Sometimes people in charge need to accept some responsibility and when they had total party support and vast media networks created by long time family supporters it's even more important to accept failure.

Was it ALL Bush's fault, of course not but as Dale said, he sped up the process and it turns out sped it up more than anyone else has in the history of the world. Deficits, deregulation, borrow and spend economy and push everything through the media.

Now some people are filled with nothing but hate.

That's what South Carolina wanted when they bought into the media scare tactics in the 200 primary that have become mainstream today. They knew that Bush had bankrupted 3 businesses, they knew that his family made vast sums of money in the S&L crisis and they knew he'd fuck all of us again.

But they got lower taxes for a few years. :thumbsup:

No I'm not! I'm saying all politicians had the opportunity to react and change the decline and end the madness. Neither side accepted responsibility, nor did Bush until the recent Charlie Gipson interview. Did you watch it? W, admited he made mistakes and briefly apologized for the housing crisis. It wasn't that sincere but this man is a stone cold cowboy who rarely admits his faults. The runaway bureacrats mad W look worse and he did n't have the brains nor the balls to fight back.

I never understood why people voted for W either. Perhaps electing daddy's boy had some appeal. S&L Daddy that is. I saw him as another ego trip Ivy League thug with skeletons in his closet.

[SeedyROM]

Laying blame is more important than ever. As now both parties agree on almost everything that really matters, the blame game is very important.

I'm now expecting limited investigations into the political side of the housing meltdown. Placing blame is important so we can uncover the slick wheeling and dealing that kept us in the dark. Politicians increase the leverage that banks used to loan money. 100 to 1 banking leverage is economic suicide.

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/money/understanding-leverage-the-real-cause-behind-the-financial-crisis-270279/
Most investment banks were leveraged by a ratio of 30 to 1, and they were dealing with billions of dollars instead of thousands. Government sponsored mortgage giants Freddie and Fannie were using leverage closer to 100 to 1, because of their supposedly stricter lending standards and implicit government backing. As you know, when asset prices are rising, this system works like a dream, but lets look at what happens when asset prices (in this case – houses) move downward.

An investment bank may put down $1,000,000 for $30,000,000 worth of mortgages. So lets say the investment bank's stock is worth $1,000,000. As housing prices drop, the investment bank has the same problem as you, they cannot refinance because nobody will lend them more money, so they start losing their houses to foreclosure. As the houses go into foreclosure – one by one – the investment banks value (and thereby stock) drops. In the end, the investment bank has the same value stock as your personal stock value – zero. Unlike you, the investment banks go hat in hand for a Federal bailout because they failed to manage their downside risk from leveraged debt.

So, the lesson of this story is not that leverage is bad; it just has to be understood for both the upside AND downside impacts. If the individual or investment bank were leveraged 3 to 1, they would have enough equity in the house(s) to either refinance or more likely, the bank would not have called-in the loan in the first place. Remember if you are leveraged 3 to 1, you have put down 33%. Therefore, the house(s) would have to fall more than 33% to become an issue. Plus, even if the house(s) eventually fell a total of 40% at the market bottom, and the bank called-in the loan, you would only need to come up with $7,000 ($67,000 mortgage - $60,000 in current value), which is much more manageable for an individual or an investment bank than the $39,000 that would be required if you were leveraged 100 to 1 and the house dropped in value by 40%.

Going forward, I hope our regulators take heed of this when the next blend of investment banks emerges and Fannie/Freddie become profitable again. Hopefully the amount of leverage and actual equity is much more carefully regulated and 30:1 or 100:1 leverage ratios are banned. Similarly, future homeowners should take this leverage lesson to heart and only purchase homes where they can afford a 20% down payment and hence are not so badly exposed when home prices fall.

[SeedyROM]

OK, so everyone is bitching about this and that and how it's going to get worse. We know it's going to get worse because we're not at the bottom yet.

So, what should we do about it?

Kres, Hog, you've told us what we shouldn't do about it. Hog, I know that you wanted to continue doing what we've been doing but I think that's obviously failed.

Kres, what should we do about it? We have a big government and we just saw it's size increase drastically. Reagan was able to manage it's growth and so was Clinton, but Nixon and the Bush's expanded it without limits.

Hog, Kres, Anyone, What should we do?

It's simple, no new programs till we cut the debt by 30% or more. Free healthcare will have to wait 3 or 4 years if ever.

We need reform for wallstreet, banks and corporations in general. Tighter laws and enforcement of the laws, less tolerance for dangerous loopholes and no more repeals of age old laws like Glass Steagall. We have to find a way to fight the corporations and bully politicians every year, not just election years.

[SeedyROM]

I'm going to take the word of independent sources over one I've learned almost a decade ago not to trust.

It's sort of like the way you guys write off the New York Times, except it makes sense.

When the NY Times balances out, there will be a return to respect. The company was sold recently, new management has plans for a makeover to a more profitable company that is more balanced and fair. We'll have to wait and see if they actually improve thier image. The company bonds are now rated Junk Status and it ain't just low paper sales, it the attitude of the editors and biased writers. The treasonist paper image will fade in time, maybe?

[Moby]

Placing blame is important so we can uncover the slick wheeling and dealing that kept us in the dark.
You would think but remember a bunch of PNAC members worked for Nixon.
The Bush family was knee deep in the S&L crisis.
Fred Thompson almost got a nod even after Bush.

Americans will never learn. Blame whoever you want and it won't change a single vote if Jeb runs. People putting W in power was the stupidest thing in the history of America and they'll do it again.

[SeedyROM]

You would think but remember a bunch of PNAC members worked for Nixon.
The Bush family was knee deep in the S&L crisis.
Fred Thompson almost got a nod even after Bush.

Americans will never learn. Blame whoever you want and it won't change a single vote if Jeb runs. People putting W in power was the stupidest thing in the history of America and they'll do it again.

If Jeb runs it is my opinion the left will beat down on him harder than they beat on Palin. I wouldn't vote for a Bush Trifecta, that's a losing horse for America for sure. I wouldn't vote for either of the Bush twins 12 years from now either. The Bush's should fade into history.

[Dale escondido]

It's simple, no new programs till we cut the debt by 30% or more. Free healthcare will have to wait 3 or 4 years if ever.

We need reform for wallstreet, banks and corporations in general. Tighter laws and enforcement of the laws, less tolerance for dangerous loopholes and no more repeals of age old laws like Glass Steagall. We have to find a way to fight the corporations and bully politicians every year, not just election years.

We cant think of stuff like this right now, were busy trying to figure how to spend the tillions were printing right now.
Why cant we do what the romans did.
Find a rich land , invade and kill the residents and bring their stuff home.
Much easier than acting responsibly at home.

[Smurf-Herder]

You would think but remember a bunch of PNAC members worked for Nixon.
The Bush family was knee deep in the S&L crisis.
Fred Thompson almost got a nod even after Bush.

Americans will never learn. Blame whoever you want and it won't change a single vote if Jeb runs. People putting W in power was the stupidest thing in the history of America and they'll do it again.

Hey SM, I got a project for you ...............

see if Obama appoints anyone connected to the PNAC to a position in his administration.

I haven't heard either way. But it would be interesting to see. The PNAC, or any other of the groups mentioned on this board, that were "Neo" oriented, in their opinions.

Obama will be projecting a Centrist stance on everything (for his first term), IMO. A centrist overview that incorporates all "factions". It's key - all factions having a direct stake/connection to the top; for the most part.

Anyway, I just heard they're projecting 10% national unemployment next year, on MSNBC with Alex.

We're fucked, guys. But so is the rest of the world.

China scholar warns of social turmoil as growth slows
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4B40H820081205

Russian economy sounds alarm
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/10502035.asp?scr=1

Saudis seek ‘Sharia bail out’ to financial crisis
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/features/?id=29100

[Mr, gone]

Smurfy,

With your logic, it seems then - we should all brush the dust off of that old 'Cold war' bomb shelter. Stock up on food stuffs and wait for it all to end.

What do you suggest??? If armageddon comes, I'd rather go out with a bang.:D

[Hog Trash]

I don't really think anything can be done. I literally think we have to let it get so bad that we have a revolution of sorts. Maybe not taking up arms against the powers that be, but a basic ideological revolution to return us to some level of sanity.

So the chickens have come to roost...I think we have to just let it get bad enough that the Americans have a second revolution against the powers that be because they're disconnected from the real world.The media elected Obama, a man with no experience and the most shaded past of any Presidential candidate ever in history, proving that they have the power to control any election from here on out.

Any chance of "change" or revolution as you call it, from here on out depends on one of two things happening.

[1] The media must join in the people's desire to end the corruption and corporate control on Washington and promote candidate's that will actually change the course America has taken.
Or
[2] The people must ignore and resist the control the media has over our elections and elect politicians that will work for them instead of "The Highest Bidder" despite the crap the media pushes on us.

We have the power to change things but we allow politicians and the media to control what we believe.....Basically until the American voters wise up we are fucked and will remain that way.

[Moby]

[2] The people must ignore and resist the control the media has over our elections and elect politicians
Let me know when you're ready to start because no one, maybe Frank, is a better example of how the media controls the emotions and then the minds of the people.

[Hog Trash]

Let me know when you're ready to start because no one, maybe Frank, is a better example of how the media controls the emotions and then the minds of the people.I voted for the candidate the media wanted to lose......Stop kidding yourself SM, it's a no-brainer.

[ROdger Right]

Come on Mr. G there wont be a bang just a shit load more people adding to the starving to death list

[bairdi]

The media elected Obama, a man with no experience and the most shaded past of any Presidential candidate ever in history, proving that they have the power to control any election from here on out.

Any chance of "change" or revolution as you call it, from here on out depends on one of two things happening.

[1] The media must join in the people's desire to end the corruption and corporate control on Washington and promote candidate's that will actually change the course America has taken.
Or
[2] The people must ignore and resist the control the media has over our elections and elect politicians that will work for them instead of "The Highest Bidder" despite the crap the media pushes on us.

We have the power to change things but we allow politicians and the media to control what we believe.....Basically until the American voters wise up we are fucked and will remain that way.
Number 1 happened last month. Too bad you missed it.

[Moby]

I voted for the candidate the media wanted to lose......Stop kidding yourself SM, it's a no-brainer.
Those liberal media groups like Rupert Murdoch, Lowry Mays, Sung Myung Moon, Viacom, General Electric and Disney.

None of those companies or owners can be considered liberal but you think they're pumping money into making the media liberal. It doesn't make any sense Hog. The only reason you believe the media is so liberal is because you've been programmed to believe it.

You believe a lot of what they program into you.

Ted Turner is about the only TV media owner that could be considered liberal and even he hired Glenn Beck the best NLP voice on TV.

[Hog Trash]

Those liberal media groups like Rupert Murdoch, Lowry Mays, Sung Myung Moon, Viacom, General Electric and Disney.

I was actually referring to CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and CNN Headline News, all of which promoted Obama while shredding McCain.

I saw it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears for months leading up to the election, nobody had to brainwash me you idiot.

The networks never really tried to hide their bias. The fact that you didn't see it indicates that you are the "programmed" one here.

I need facts to be swayed. Unlike you, I'm way to smart to be brainwashed. The fact that I didn't support Barack Hussein Obama is evidence.

Exactly who is it that you think I listen to so much, that has brainwashed me?....Whose mouths is the programming coming out of?

[Moby]

I was actually referring to CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and CNN Headline News, all of which promoted Obama while shredding McCain.
You haven't even bothered to research who owns CBS, ABC or NBC :lmao2:

Follow the money back to the owner's Hog. It's silly. CNN Headline news had Glenn Beck on during prime time. Is he considered liberal? :confused:

You believe what ever you're told to believe and nothing more. It just doesn't make sense for Disney to support a liberal media wing that would push a candidate that would cost them money. The same for the other corporate leaders.

There are 7 corporations that control pretty much all of the media. 3 of them are owned by massive donors to the Neoconservative movement. One of them is known for his liberal leaning wife. The other 3 corporations are very conservative in their policies.

Get a grip on reality. You think any news show that isn't running the same news story over and over again about Ayers is liberal. Those stories ran on all the networks but after it was reported they moved on.

Get a grip on reality. It can be harsh but it's the truth.

[Hog Trash]

You haven't even bothered to research who owns CBS, ABC or NBC :lmao2:

Follow the money back to the owner's Hog. It's silly. CNN Headline news had Glenn Beck on during prime time. Is he considered liberal? :confused:

You believe what ever you're told to believe and nothing more. It just doesn't make sense for Disney to support a liberal media wing that would push a candidate that would cost them money. The same for the other corporate leaders.

There are 7 corporations that control pretty much all of the media. 3 of them are owned by massive donors to the Neoconservative movement. One of them is known for his liberal leaning wife. The other 3 corporations are very conservative in their policies.

Get a grip on reality. You think any news show that isn't running the same news story over and over again about Ayers is liberal. Those stories ran on all the networks but after it was reported they moved on.

Get a grip on reality. It can be harsh but it's the truth.Like most liberals, you selectively overlook and ignore the obvious things that blow giant holes in your theory.

For example when Joe the Plumber was veiwed as anti-Obama, the news media camped out on his doorstep and went after him with a passion.

When accusations of Obama associations with Bill Ayers came out, mysteriously nobody approached or questioned him other than FNN on one occasion.

The fact that you refuse to admit that the major news media machine was Pro-Obama is amazing. I honestly now think that you honestly do believe that. How blind can anyone be?

You untactfully avoided my question.Originally Posted by Hog Trash
Exactly who is it that you think I listen to so much, that has brainwashed me?....Whose mouths is the programming coming out of?Don't tell me who is signing the checks....Give me the names of actual "programmers" so I can destroy your theory once and for all?

[Smurf-Herder]

Smurfy,

With your logic, it seems then - we should all brush the dust off of that old 'Cold war' bomb shelter. Stock up on food stuffs and wait for it all to end.

What do you suggest??? If armageddon comes, I'd rather go out with a bang.:D

You don't want to survive Armageddon?


You don't need the bomb shelter. Just everything else; including hunting & camping gear and a small faraday cage for a backup laptop with wireless internet.

[ROdger Right]

Dont forget guns, gotta protect your everything else

[SeedyROM]

Number 1 happened last month. Too bad you missed it.

LOL, that's hillarious! The media proved they are easily corrupted when no one held them to the same standards as previous elections. Perhaps they knew that BO would lose without the corruption? I'm okay with BO as president, its the whackos and all the spending that I'm not okay with. There's nothing patriotic about bailouts, nor is there anything patriotic about going back on his word to tax the rich. Politics as usual.

[SeedyROM]

Those liberal media groups like Rupert Murdoch, Lowry Mays, Sung Myung Moon, Viacom, General Electric and Disney.

None of those companies or owners can be considered liberal but you think they're pumping money into making the media liberal. It doesn't make any sense Hog. The only reason you believe the media is so liberal is because you've been programmed to believe it.

You believe a lot of what they program into you.

Ted Turner is about the only TV media owner that could be considered liberal and even he hired Glenn Beck the best NLP voice on TV.

Turner no longer owns a large stake in Time Warner which owns CNN. You seem to think the liberal media are not biased nor are they using NLP. So either you are programmed or you are wrong. Which is it? They all do it to entice the public to watch and come back for more. Watch "Caterpillar Eyebrowed" Keith Olbermann and tell me he isn't using NLP or even Chris Matthews. The manipulative channels are numbered above the network channels 2 thru 13. 14 plus is where the problems begin.

fyi, ABC and NBC were in the tank for Obama, liberal polls agreed with 66% saying so. ABC and NBC lost money throughout the election, you told HG the networks wouldn't risk losing money supporting th ewrong candidate. They didn't care, they were playing with other peoples money.......the shareholders, debt holders and creditors. The networks may line up for bailout money too!!

[Smurf-Herder]

Dont forget guns, gotta protect your everything else

The idea is to get out of Babylon.

A long camping trip .... sorta.

The people who'll need the guns for protection are the ones who stay near population centers.

Guns as a contingency, but crossbow for hunting - arrows are reusable, bullets run out. Fishing gear is a must. And a shielded laptop, if the grid stays up, for keeping track of the latest news.

[SeedyROM]

Hey SM, I got a project for you ...............

see if Obama appoints anyone connected to the PNAC to a position in his administration.

I haven't heard either way. But it would be interesting to see. The PNAC, or any other of the groups mentioned on this board, that were "Neo" oriented, in their opinions.

Obama will be projecting a Centrist stance on everything (for his first term), IMO. A centrist overview that incorporates all "factions". It's key - all factions having a direct stake/connection to the top; for the most part.

Anyway, I just heard they're projecting 10% national unemployment next year, on MSNBC with Alex.

We're fucked, guys. But so is the rest of the world.

China scholar warns of social turmoil as growth slows
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4B40H820081205

Russian economy sounds alarm
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/10502035.asp?scr=1

Saudis seek ‘Sharia bail out’ to financial crisis
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/features/?id=29100

Obama had neocons working on his ecampaign staff. It wouldn't suprise me to find neos hired as advisors. I posted two articles in a thread. Sirmoby never commented on them. Even the wallstreet journal has mention BO's neocon connections. These people are in both parties.

10% unemployment is possible.

[Cat slave]

The idea is to get out of Babylon.

A long camping trip .... sorta.

The people who'll need the guns for protection are the ones who stay near population centers.

Guns as a contingency, but crossbow for hunting - arrows are reusable, bullets run out. Fishing gear is a must. And a shielded laptop, if the grid stays up, for keeping track of the latest news.


Excellent points!

[Moby]

Turner no longer owns a large stake in Time Warner which owns CNN. You seem to think the liberal media are not biased nor are they using NLP. So either you are programmed or you are wrong. Which is it? They all do it to entice the public to watch and come back for more. Watch "Caterpillar Eyebrowed" Keith Olbermann and tell me he isn't using NLP or even Chris Matthews. The manipulative channels are numbered above the network channels 2 thru 13. 14 plus is where the problems begin.

fyi, ABC and NBC were in the tank for Obama, liberal polls agreed with 66% saying so. ABC and NBC lost money throughout the election, you told HG the networks wouldn't risk losing money supporting th ewrong candidate. They didn't care, they were playing with other peoples money.......the shareholders, debt holders and creditors. The networks may line up for bailout money too!!
Sure, we all know Chris Mathews job is to be biased. He openly admits it but he was also in the tank for Bush. Olbermann was hired for one reason and that was to be biased. Big shit. He admits it. Fox plays that they're not biased and everyone can easily see that they are. even without watching all you have to do is read the biography of the owner.

I'm just saying follow the money and show me where the corporate support is and as usual, you can't because it doesn't exist. The media isn't as biased as you claim because there's no reason for it.

It doesn't make any sense for these corporate boards to be in the tank for liberals but I guess if you and Hog say it's true then it must be true :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Of course you heard it on Fox News and from Glenn Beck long before you ever thought of it yourself :thumbsup:

[Moby]

Obama had neocons working on his ecampaign staff. It wouldn't suprise me to find neos hired as advisors. I posted two articles in a thread. Sirmoby never commented on them. Even the wallstreet journal has mention BO's neocon connections. These people are in both parties.

10% unemployment is possible.
You post so much noise and have so much emotion in your programming that I don't read most of your none sense. That's true. I admit it. I think you over react to everything just like Disrupter did and I didn't read his posts any more either.

I'm guilty. You got me for not buying into the rantings of someone that I think has lost their way.

You do know that the Wall Street Journal was purchased by Murdoch don't you?

Why shouldn't Obama be working with the Necons? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Have we forgotten those wise words?

[Hog Trash]

Why do liberals think Fox News is biased?????..........Simple.

They are so accustomed to hearing news networks that promote their leftist ideology, that when they hear someone who is fair and balanced, it sounds biased.

Why is Fox news so popular above the rest? Is SirMoby and his liberal friends right, and the majority of America brainwashed to the point they can't see the truth?

Or is it the other way around?

FACT!... Liberals who believe this about Fox, rarely ever watch Fox. This is what they are told to believe by the people who don't want them to see or hear the truth.

[Binky]

Being a conspiracy nut I believe we are now on the fast track to a one world currency.
Crash the dollar and weaken the US, homoginize the world and return to the caste system.
Oh yea, we get to pay back the rest of the world for the market crash we caused.



Pains me to think this but it rather looks that way doesn't it?

[Binky]

While I'm thinking of it, whatever happened to Glen Beck? One day he was on and the next I can't find him. Where did he go?

[Hog Trash]

While I'm thinking of it, whatever happened to Glen Beck? One day he was on and the next I can't find him. Where did he go?Moving to Fox News Network....Don't know when though.

[Moby]

FACT!... Liberals who believe this about Fox, rarely ever watch Fox. This is what they are told to believe by the people who don't want them to see or hear the truth.
Again your facts are wrong :lmao2: Few people are more consitant than you Hog :thumbsup:

Actually I spend at least as much time watching Fox as any other news broadcast which isn't mush really. I prefer more interactive means for news sources.

Look at the Fox News line up. Hannity, O'Rielly, Beck - all far leaning right wing commentators. When someone fills in they chose, Malkin, Coulter and Ingraham. All far leaning right wing commentators.

Now they have Karl Rove and Mike Huckabee on all the time.

Look at the owner Rupert Murdoch. He seems to fund ONLY far leaning right wing news sources such as The Weekly Standard.

Why did Brett Hume say he wanted to work for Fox?

The difference is that with Fox News you can find a money trail of Neoconservative support. You can find a long list of conservative commentators. Most of these people aren't journalists but in some cases nothing more than disk jockeys.

You can follow facts and not feelings to show Fox News is a Neoconservative leaning. Of course you can keep ignoring those things but that doesn't mean they're not obvious.

[Moby]

Moving to Fox News Network....Don't know when though.
Early January I heard.

[Hog Trash]

Again your facts are wrong :lmao2: Few people are more consitant than you Hog :thumbsup:

Actually I spend at least as much time watching Fox as any other news broadcast which isn't mush really. I prefer more interactive means for news sources.

Look at the Fox News line up. Hannity, O'Rielly, Beck - all far leaning right wing commentators. When someone fills in they chose, Malkin, Coulter and Ingraham. All far leaning right wing commentators.

Now they have Karl Rove and Mike Huckabee on all the time.

Look at the owner Rupert Murdoch. He seems to fund ONLY far leaning right wing news sources such as The Weekly Standard.

Why did Brett Hume say he wanted to work for Fox?

The difference is that with Fox News you can find a money trail of Neoconservative support. You can find a long list of conservative commentators. Most of these people aren't journalists but in some cases nothing more than disk jockeys.

You can follow facts and not feelings to show Fox News is a Neoconservative leaning. Of course you can keep ignoring those things but that doesn't mean they're not obvious.I don't deny commentaters are dominant on Fox. I'm saying Fox is more likely to report the dirt on both political parties, something the other more left-wing networks shy away from.

No one realy lies, the lefty networks just conviently filter, edit, delete and ignore the bad news about their party favorites. I never minded Katie Couric being tough on Palin. I expect a good journalist to be tough on all candidates, something Couric isn't.

I would also like to know how you managed to escape the NPR programing on Fox? Is it because of your superior mental abilities or must you be de-programed after each viewing?

[Moby]

I would also like to know how you managed to escape the NPR programing on Fox? Is it because of your superior mental abilities or must you be de-programed after each viewing?
It's NLP not NPR :lmao2:

After all this time you still haven't bothered to even look at it? No wonder you're so well controlled.

Read up on it, educate yourself on how it's done and then you'll understand why I spend so much time asking for real world facts instead of emotional hearsay.

It's very powerful stuff. If you're a single man it can do wonders for you.

[SeedyROM]

Sure, we all know Chris Mathews job is to be biased. He openly admits it but he was also in the tank for Bush. Olbermann was hired for one reason and that was to be biased. Big shit. He admits it. Fox plays that they're not biased and everyone can easily see that they are. even without watching all you have to do is read the biography of the owner.

I'm just saying follow the money and show me where the corporate support is and as usual, you can't because it doesn't exist. The media isn't as biased as you claim because there's no reason for it.

It doesn't make any sense for these corporate boards to be in the tank for liberals but I guess if you and Hog say it's true then it must be true :lmao2: :lmao2

Of course you heard it on Fox News and from Glenn Beck long before you ever thought of it yourself :thumbsup:

The media are biased, are you saying you didn't know it or is this more spindoctoring? Media bias does exist, don't ever say it ain't so because the proof is right in front of you.

I proud to say the NY Times, the LA Times and the Washington Times as well as many other rags are facing bankruptcy, in part due to bias. Many killed thier subscriptions due to bias, ads were killed too. It's not just the internet that killed those rags it is bias and lousy management.

The polls proved it is true. 69% of voters polled agreed that the media were in the tank for Obama. That is MSM bias, say it ain't so Sirmoby????:D

Rassmussen had the closest polls of all polling firms, they predicted BO's win and the winning margin far closer than the other polls.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/69_say_reporters_try_to_help_the_candidate_they_wa nt_to_win
Seven out of 10 voters (69%) remain convinced that reporters try to help the candidate they want to win, and this year by a nearly five-to-one margin voters believe they are trying to help Barack Obama.


Voters from both parties, however, are skeptical of media bias in general. Eighty-six percent (86%) of Republicans think reporters try to help the candidate they want to win, and a plurality of Democrats (49%) believe that, too. Seventy-four percent (74%) of unaffiliated voters agree.

Only 21% of voters overall say reporters try to offer unbiased coverage.

[SeedyROM]

You post so much noise and have so much emotion in your programming that I don't read most of your none sense. That's true. I admit it. I think you over react to everything just like Disrupter did and I didn't read his posts any more either.

I'm guilty. You got me for not buying into the rantings of someone that I think has lost their way.

You do know that the Wall Street Journal was purchased by Murdoch don't you?

Why shouldn't Obama be working with the Necons? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Have we forgotten those wise words?

Wrong again, you slanderous attacks are failing to impress me! No noise, I post facts and you distort the truth. You need to stop the partisan attacks!

Obama is in bed with neocons, by choice, who knows but these people are present in the dem party too.

[Moby]

No noise, I post facts and you distort the truth. You need to stop the partisan attacks!
Like I claimed McCain was Bush 2.0? :lmao2:

[SeedyROM]

Like I claimed McCain was Bush 2.0? :lmao2:

LOL, so what do you think of the media bias now? Polls are an accurate glimpse of voter opinion.

[Smurf-Herder]

It's NLP not NPR :lmao2:

After all this time you still haven't bothered to even look at it? No wonder you're so well controlled.

Read up on it, educate yourself on how it's done and then you'll understand why I spend so much time asking for real world facts instead of emotional hearsay.

It's very powerful stuff. If you're a single man it can do wonders for you.


Hey Professor, do a Google search on Obama+NLP. :lmao2:

Hypnosis/NLP Proven, Obama's Use Of Hidden Hypnosis In Speeches

Please spread to all voters to wake up from the trance, so they could vote their conscious. We still have time to do it. Bless the internet.

AN EXAMINATION OF OBAMA’S USE OF HIDDEN HYPNOSIS TECHNIQUES IN HIS SPEECHES

THE EVIDENCE IS HERE: This document contains over 60 pages of evidence and analysis proving Barack Obama’s use of a little-known and highly deceptive and manipulative form of “hack” hypnosis on millions of unaware Americans, and reveals what only a few psychologists and hypnosis/NLP experts know.

Barack Obama’s speeches contain the hypnosis techniques of Dr. Milton Erickson, M.D. who developed a form of “conversational” hypnosis that could be hidden in seemingly normal speech and used on patients without their knowledge for therapy purposes. Obama’s speeches intentionally contain:

- Trance Inductions
- Preprogrammed Response Adaptation
- Hypnotic Anchoring
- Linking Statements/ Causality Bridges
- Pacing and Leading
- Secondary Hidden Meanings/Imbedded
- Pacing, Distraction and Utilization Suggestions
- Critical Factor Bypass
- Emotion Transfer
- Stacking Language Patterns
- Non-Dominant Hemisphere Programming

Obama’s techniques are the height of deception and psychological manipulation, remaining hidden because one must understand the science behind the language patterns in order to spot them. This document examines Obama’s speeches word by word, hand gesture by hand gesture, tone, pauses, body language, and proves his use of covert hypnosis intended only for licensed therapists on consenting patients. Obama’s mesmerized, cult-like, grade-school-crush-like worship by millions is not because “Obama is the greatest leader of a generation” who simply hasn’t accomplished anything, who magically “inspires” by giving speeches. Obama is committing perhaps the biggest fraud and deception in American history.

Obama is not just using subliminal messages, but textbook covert hypnosis and neuro-linguistic programming techniques on audiences that are intentionally designed to sideline rational judgment and implant subconscious commands to think he is wonderful and elect him President. Obama is eloquent. However, Obama’s subconscious techniques are shown to elicit powerful emotion from his audience and then transfer those emotions onto him, to sideline rational judgment, and implant hypnotic commands that we are unaware of and can’t even consciously question. The polls are misleading because some of Obama’s commands are designed to be triggered only in the voting booth on November 4th. Obama is immune to logical arguments like Wright, Ayers, shifting every position, character, and inexperience, because hypnosis affects us on an unconscious and emotional level. To many people who see this unaccomplished man’s unnatural and irrational rise to the highest office in the world as suspicious and frightening and to those who welcome it, this document uncovers, explains, and proves the deceptive tactics behind true “Obama Phenomenon” including why younger people are more easily affected.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/69641

[Moby]

Hey Professor, do a Google search on Obama+NLP. :lmao2:
If it's written by a blogger on Ron Paul's blog than it must be true :lmao2:

ALL powerful speakers use some forms of it. That's why it's so important to understand it. Everyone does it.

That's why I'm always asking for articles because it's more difficult, not impossible but more difficult, to use the most common anchoring methods and word play when writing than it is using words gestures.

[Moby]

LOL, so what do you think of the media bias now? Polls are an accurate glimpse of voter opinion.
So were did I claim that McCain was Bush 2.0?

OK, so most people understand that media personal can be biased. Is that your big news for the day? Wow I guess you really told me. :taunt: You're really stretching to make a point on anything anywhere now.

[Moby]

I never minded Katie Couric being tough on Palin. I expect a good journalist to be tough on all candidates, something Couric isn't.
You were asked specifically how Couric was tough on Palin and no one could mention a single question that was phrased poorly or misleading. I can find the post but I think the only complaint was her body language and Palin has openly admitted to being annoyed by Couric. No one has ever posted how Couric was tough on Palin. It's just that Palin couldn't answer some really simple questions that VP candidate should be able to answer.

Everyone that we know had an opinion on the bailout but Palin couldn't seem to form one. That's Couric's fault? Supreme Court, news sources and McCain's record should have been really easy questions to answer.

[SeedyROM]

So were did I claim that McCain was Bush 2.0?

OK, so most people understand that media personal can be biased. Is that your big news for the day? Wow I guess you really told me. :taunt: You're really stretching to make a point on anything anywhere now.


I provided relevant facts with supporting evidence. No stretch needed. Good to see you agree that BO used NLP, he captured the masses with his speeches. I liked him till late July. His speech methods are impressive but most narcissists are. I'll post an article written on BO's narcissistic traits later. It defines him well as well as past & present world leaders.

[SeedyROM]

You were asked specifically how Couric was tough on Palin and no one could mention a single question that was phrased poorly or misleading. I can find the post but I think the only complaint was her body language and Palin has openly admitted to being annoyed by Couric. No one has ever posted how Couric was tough on Palin. It's just that Palin couldn't answer some really simple questions that VP candidate should be able to answer.

Everyone that we know had an opinion on the bailout but Palin couldn't seem to form one. That's Couric's fault? Supreme Court, news sources and McCain's record should have been really easy questions to answer.
I posted an article with Palin defining how she was tough on Couric and why she acted like a horses ass. The video is online at Youtube

Read it here http://www.dcjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=6292

[Smurf-Herder]

If it's written by a blogger on Ron Paul's blog than it must be true :lmao2:

ALL powerful speakers use some forms of it. That's why it's so important to understand it. Everyone does it.

That's why I'm always asking for articles because it's more difficult, not impossible but more difficult, to use the most common anchoring methods and word play when writing than it is using words gestures.

He's referring to a 60 page independent study conducted by psychologists.

That's just one reference. Google it.

You're just showing your obvious double-standard mindset again.

[Hog Trash]

You were asked specifically how Couric was tough on Palin and no one could mention a single question that was phrased poorly or misleading. I can find the post but I think the only complaint was her body language and Palin has openly admitted to being annoyed by Couric. Blind fool alert!

I explained it extremely well in several other posts. I even took the time to locate and post both the Couric interviews of Palin and Biden.

If you choose not to understand it, that's your problem. Feel free to locate and study it again if you wish, but I personally will not waste my time.

[Moby]

I provided relevant facts with supporting evidence.
So where did I call McCain Bush 2.0? :disbelief:

You seem to be missing the relevant facts and the supporting evidence again.

[Moby]

He's referring to a 60 page independent study conducted by psychologists.
As I said I think all good public speakers use some form of it. What independent psychologists? The authors didn't seem to be listed in the PDF so it's difficult to say that it was done as an independent study or even by psychologists.

[Moby]

I explained it extremely well in several other posts. I even took the time to locate and post both the Couric interviews of Palin and Biden.
You said it was her body posture and couldn't mention a single sentence, word or phrase used. As always, nothing that could be put into words but could be felt.

That's how the emotional NLP anchors work.

[Independent Harry]

As I said I think all good public speakers use some form of it. What independent psychologists? The authors didn't seem to be listed in the PDF so it's difficult to say that it was done as an independent study or even by psychologists.

Everyone who is an effective public speaker uses some form of emotional trigger to get the audiences going. I've done sales trainings and presentations for years under the Bily Graham model. It uses a sales technique called attack and confess where you attack your old beliefs (which are the beliefs you know your audience have and that you want to change) and confess them as misguided and stupid. You get your audience to agree with you that these beliefs are misguided and stupid and then they therefore have linked in their minds that their beliefs are misguided and stupid and should therefore change to what you are telling them. Very effective, and very eloquent.

There are other techniques, this is one that could seem the most manipulative, but it's really not, if you are out to actually help them. It's just a technique to help people see your side of the story.

[Hog Trash]

If it's written by a blogger on Ron Paul's blog than it must be true :lmao2:

ALL powerful speakers use some forms of it. That's why it's so important to understand it. Everyone does it.

That's why I'm always asking for articles because it's more difficult, not impossible but more difficult, to use the most common anchoring methods and word play when writing than it is using words gestures.I don't know if you're denying Seedy's link because the source is not from the left or if you agree that Obama is guilty of NLP, but it's okeedokee because you support him?

You are the most successful case of the "NLP" technique, you have been accusing everybody else of falling victim to. Being aware doesn't seem to have made you immune.

[Hog Trash]

You said it was her body posture and couldn't mention a single sentence, word or phrase used. As always, nothing that could be put into words but could be felt.

That's how the emotional NLP anchors work.I did better...I provided both the Palin and Biden interview videos.

[SeedyROM]

Everyone who is an effective public speaker uses some form of emotional trigger to get the audiences going. I've done sales trainings and presentations for years under the Bily Graham model. It uses a sales technique called attack and confess where you attack your old beliefs (which are the beliefs you know your audience have and that you want to change) and confess them as misguided and stupid. You get your audience to agree with you that these beliefs are misguided and stupid and then they therefore have linked in their minds that their beliefs are misguided and stupid and should therefore change to what you are telling them. Very effective, and very eloquent.

There are other techniques, this is one that could seem the most manipulative, but it's really not, if you are out to actually help them. It's just a technique to help people see your side of the story.

The Graham model is quite effective, better than Zig Ziglar's. You help yourself by selling what other people need to be convinced they need to buy and only buy from you. Very effective. Billy Graham couldn't sell me on religion but his salesmanship is prime.

[Independent Harry]

The Graham model is quite effective, better than Zig Ziglar's. You help yourself by selling what other people need to be convinced they need to buy and only buy from you. Very effective. Billy Graham couldn't sell me on religion but his salesmanship is prime.

I always like the Tom Hopkins and Billy Graham styles, because they focused more on emotional triggers. As well, story based selling. They are very effective at getting people to think what you want them to think, without telling them to think it.

I find that I'm only effective with these models for products I believe in fully and am passionate about, though. Simply because I feel like I am manipulating someone otherwise.

[Moby]

I don't know if you're denying Seedy's link because the source is not from the left or if you agree that Obama is guilty of NLP, but it's okeedokee because you support him?

You are the most successful case of the "NLP" technique, you have been accusing everybody else of falling victim to. Being aware doesn't seem to have made you immune.
Wow, you're really out there today in autopilot fight mode aren't you?

It was Smurf's link and not Seedy's. I also stated that I agree that ALL effective public speakers use some form of NLP or as Harry puts it, some form of "emotional trigger". If not the speaker is boring.

What I have shown and I'll be happy to do it again, is the Neoconservative Machine that creates the programming message. It's funded by 3 major sources, it's created by a powerful think tank, they use tools such as Frank Luntz to create the key phrases, people like Karl Rove create the emotional anchors, they then disseminate this to the Neoconservative outlets where it is presented and programmed into you. It's well funded. It's well organized. It's not in your best interest.

I have asked over and over again for anyone to show this major organization in the so called "Liberal Media", which is phrased probably programmed by Luntz or someone like him. There just doesn't seem to be the massive coordinated attack on the emotions, minds and thought processes coming from the "Liberal Media" but it obviously exists in the "Neoconservative Media".

It's the control coming from the Neoconservative Machine that's a danger to this country.

Maybe you're getting closer to understanding but I think you're just running on the emotional autopilot that's been programmed for you.

If there is such a well coordinated, organized and funded liberal media movement than show us the trail. The one that I'm complaining about is easy to find and no one has ever tried to deny it. They just keep pointing away.

[Moby]

I did better...I provided both the Palin and Biden interview videos.
You see Hog, this is another perfect example of how NLP works.

You don't know what the bias is. You can't rationalize it in words. You can't point to single phrase, sentence or anything really. It starts with emotion and triggers a thought instead of thoughts and things that trigger emotions.

It's something that you feel.

Get it?

[Independent Harry]

You see Hog, this is another perfect example of how NLP works.

You don't know what the bias is. You can't rationalize it in words. You can't point to single phrase, sentence or anything really. It starts with emotion and triggers a thought instead of thoughts and things that trigger emotions.

It's something that you feel.

Get it?

Its his female intuition...lol...

[Smurf-Herder]

You see Hog, this is another perfect example of how NLP works.

You don't know what the bias is. You can't rationalize it in words. You can't point to single phrase, sentence or anything really. It starts with emotion and triggers a thought instead of thoughts and things that trigger emotions.

It's something that you feel.

Get it?

Is that anything like violent movies influencing violence and gangsta-rap influencing people thinking of all women as Hos?

Get a life - and take that dress off.

[Moby]

Its his female intuition...lol...
It might be since Hog so strongly believes things that he can't rationalize with actual facts and words. I guess it's his own form of intuition. That of course is programmed by the machine.

[Independent Harry]

Is that anything like violent movies influencing violence and gangsta-rap influencing people thinking of all women as Hos?

Get a life - and take that dress off.

ummm, you guys were the ones claiming Palin was so attacked, Moby is just eplaining how Hog saw something that didn't actually exist because of propoganda and emotional programming. You're the one with the dress nancy boy...

[Independent Harry]

It might be since Hog so strongly believes things that he can't rationalize with actual facts and words. I guess it's his own form of intuition. That of course is programmed by the machine.

Pretty amazing stuff these emotional triggers. huh. You can get grown men to act like complete morons :)

[Hog Trash]

You see Hog, this is another perfect example of how NLP works.

You don't know what the bias is. You can't rationalize it in words. You can't point to single phrase, sentence or anything really. It starts with emotion and triggers a thought instead of thoughts and things that trigger emotions.

It's something that you feel.

Get it?Danger! Danger! Danger!

Deprogramming Alert! Deprogramming Alert!

SirMoby Attempting To Deprogram Me!

SirMoby Attempting To Deprogram Me!

Must Ignore Sir Moby! Must ignore Sir Moby!

[Damn, that was close...Another 30 seconds, and I mighta been deprogrammed] :noway:

Must hate Obama! Must hate Obama! Must hate Obama! Must hate Obama!

Must love neocons! Must love neocons! Must love neocons! Must love neocons!

George Bush is good Prez! George Bush is good Prez! George Bush is good Prez!

Thank God, I feel much better now. :melodramatic:



:lmao2:

[Moby]

[QUOTE=Hog TrashThank God, I feel much better now. :melodramatic:

:lmao2:[/QUOTE]

:thumbsup:

[Hog Trash]

:thumbsup:Damn those NLP programmers....If it wasn't for them, Obama would have gotten 100% of the votes! :mad:







:lmao2:

[Smurf-Herder]

ummm, you guys were the ones claiming Palin was so attacked, Moby is just eplaining how Hog saw something that didn't actually exist because of propoganda and emotional programming. You're the one with the dress nancy boy...


Look the election is over.

I never think of Sarah Palin now - except when I see that ignorant mocking avatar of SM. I'm offended before I even read what he has to say, by seeing him mock somebody I otherwise wouldn't even be thinking of.

So seriously, anything he ever said about getting along since the election, or ending partisanship, is total bullshit. And it pisses me off to keep seeing his immature election rantings.

IT's FUCKING OVER. GET A LIFE, SM.

[Independent Harry]

Look the election is over.

I never think of Sarah Palin now - except when I see that ignorant mocking avatar of SM. I'm offended before I even read what he has to say, by seeing him mock somebody I otherwise wouldn't even be thinking of.

So seriously, anything he ever said about getting along since the election, or ending partisanship, is total bullshit. And it pisses me off to keep seeing his immature election rantings.

IT's FUCKING OVER. GET A LIFE, SM.

lol, wow butt hurt much about it? Dude you should be thanking God every day along with the rest of us Palin never got in. The thing this country definately needed was another 4 years of an uneducated idiot that ran economies into huge deficits and talked to God. Every time Moby writes a post about Palin, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling she lost.

The people that claimed they would end partisanship after the election were Hdmarketing and Senior Chief. I never saw Moby do that. They haven't been the paragon of it yet.

Regardless, I don't think its partisanship on Moby's part. I think its more an extreme dislike of Palin that drives him. Rather than her being a republican. I could see Moby supporting a progressive republican that stood for small government and wasn't a religious freak.

[Smurf-Herder]

lol, wow butt hurt much about it? Dude you should be thanking God every day along with the rest of us Palin never got in. The thing this country definately needed was another 4 years of an uneducated idiot that ran economies into huge deficits and talked to God. Every time Moby writes a post about Palin, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling she lost.

The people that claimed they would end partisanship after the election were Hdmarketing and Senior Chief. I never saw Moby do that. They haven't been the paragon of it yet.

Regardless, I don't think its partisanship on Moby's part. I think its more an extreme dislike of Palin that drives him. Rather than her being a republican. I could see Moby supporting a progressive republican that stood for small government and wasn't a religious freak.

Like I said, the goddamned fucking election is over.

And get your facts straight.

She ended her state deficit under the former governor, and ended up with a multi-billion dollar surplus.

[Moby]

I'm offended before I even read what he has to say, by seeing him mock somebody I otherwise wouldn't even be thinking of.
I'm not mocking her. She spent 5 years to get a degree at a community college in communications. This isn't a mockery. This is what she learned and obviously she's proud of it and so are many others.

[SeedyROM]

I'm not mocking her. She spent 5 years to get a degree at a community college in communications. This isn't a mockery. This is what she learned and obviously she's proud of it and so are many others.

That is not uncommon, in fact most schools graduate 5th year students every semester. Did she work or take a lighter load so she wouldn't be overworked? Maybe we'll find out some day. I wouldn't mind learning from Palin why she switched schools, but I only want her words as the MSM has fabricated so much phoney shit online and then pretended they just found it by accident.

This 5th graduate has done more for her state than any other govenor! That is something to be proud of. 47% of voters agree!

[SeedyROM]

What I have shown and I'll be happy to do it again, is the Neoconservative Machine that creates the programming message. It's funded by 3 major sources, it's created by a powerful think tank, they use tools such as Frank Luntz to create the key phrases, people like Karl Rove create the emotional anchors, they then disseminate this to the Neoconservative outlets where it is presented and programmed into you. It's well funded. It's well organized. It's not in your best interest.

I have asked over and over again for anyone to show this major organization in the so called "Liberal Media", which is phrased probably programmed by Luntz or someone like him. There just doesn't seem to be the massive coordinated attack on the emotions, minds and thought processes coming from the "Liberal Media" but it obviously exists in the "Neoconservative Media".

If there is such a well coordinated, organized and funded liberal media movement than show us the trail. The one that I'm complaining about is easy to find and no one has ever tried to deny it. They just keep pointing away.

Trust me, the liberal media and the MSM use similar methods. I'll look one day. Clearly they use similar methods, the same language is usd convey talking points by the liberal and MSM.. Madison Avenue uses it in advertising, they got it from the Military. No one wants to admit they use persuasive talking except Foxnews which advertises they use NLP. At least they are upfront about it. Like I said, the liberal media are no different, they do it to keep viewer interested and to convey thier story.

Do you think voters for Obama were emotionless, it wasn't just the economy or republican mistakes? It was a collaborate effort to program the masses.

[SeedyROM]

ummm, you guys were the ones claiming Palin was so attacked, Moby is just eplaining how Hog saw something that didn't actually exist because of propoganda and emotional programming. You're the one with the dress nancy boy...

Palin was attacked, stop pretending otherwise. Go drink some windex, maybe that will open your mind.
The Thug-Elect ain't looking like a smaller government leader now is he??

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm not mocking her. She spent 5 years to get a degree at a community college in communications. This isn't a mockery. This is what she learned and obviously she's proud of it and so are many others.

You Puddin' head, of course it's mockery.

She isn't a major news story, except to people like you; who can't get over the fact you won the election. Deal with it. You won, now move on.

You're just being a childish ass.

[Moby]

That is not uncommon, in fact most schools graduate 5th year students every semester. Did she work or take a lighter load so she wouldn't be overworked? Maybe we'll find out some day. I wouldn't mind learning from Palin why she switched schools, but I only want her words as the MSM has fabricated so much phoney shit online and then pretended they just found it by accident.

This 5th graduate has done more for her state than any other govenor! That is something to be proud of. 47% of voters agree!
So when did I call McCain Bush 2.0? Was that fabricated by the MSM? :lmao2: Oh wait a second. That was fabricated by you.

You make a good point and she should be proud of education. Who knows why she switched majors and went to 5 schools. Who knows why she decided to get her degree form a community college. Who knows why she didn't make it as a sports caster.

None of that really matters. She's good at crinkling her nose, pointing her fingers and winking. I don't know why everyone has such a strong emotional attachment to her doing those things.

[Moby]

She isn't a major news story, except to people like you; who can't get over the fact you won the election.

You're just being a childish ass.
Why does it stir such strong emotions deep inside you Smurf?

[Cat slave]

You Puddin' head, of course it's mockery.

She isn't a major news story, except to people like you; who can't get over the fact you won the election. Deal with it. You won, now move on.

You're just being a childish ass.

He really thinks we are terminally stupid.

[Cat slave]

So when did I call McCain Bush 2.0? Was that fabricated by the MSM? :lmao2: Oh wait a second. That was fabricated by you.

You make a good point and she should be proud of education. Who knows why she switched majors and went to 5 schools. Who knows why she decided to get her degree form a community college. Who knows why she didn't make it as a sports caster.

None of that really matters. She's good at crinkling her nose, pointing her fingers and winking. I don't know why everyone has such a strong emotional attachment to her doing those things.

Gee, would you like it better if she teared up and cried on que?

And we have a strong feeling for the way she was attacked and abused
by the media....and others.

[SeedyROM]

So when did I call McCain Bush 2.0? Was that fabricated by the MSM? :lmao2: Oh wait a second. That was fabricated by you.

You make a good point and she should be proud of education. Who knows why she switched majors and went to 5 schools. Who knows why she decided to get her degree form a community college. Who knows why she didn't make it as a sports caster.

None of that really matters. She's good at crinkling her nose, pointing her fingers and winking. I don't know why everyone has such a strong emotional attachment to her doing those things.

Go to user CP and fnd the thread where I posted your words with a link showing where you said Bush is Mac's daddy. And I retracted part of the statement. It's easy to find. Or look at my posts its about 9 down or so.


Shoud could have switched schools chasing scholarships or maybe it was a lack of money. Community colleges are cheaper. Name the number 2 govenor without looking it up? hint It ain't BlagoBitch.

[Smurf-Herder]

He really thinks we are terminally stupid.

I do. :thumbsup:

It makes him feel good to harp on secondary issues and things no longer relevant.

[Hog Trash]

She's good at crinkling her nose, pointing her fingers and winking. I don't know why everyone has such a strong emotional attachment to her doing those things.You think "crinkling her nose, pointing her fingers and winking" is why people have an "attachment to her"?:lmao2:

What a fuckin idiot! :crazzy: You apparently prefer the phony shit Obama performed while on the campaign stage.

Hey Superman!....I recognized you right off by that big red "S" you have tattooed on your forehead. :lmao2: Duh!

Hey Moby, I think somebody wrote a song about you...Maybe you've heard it...It kinda goes something like this;

I got some ocean front property in Arizona, from the front porch you can see the sea,

I got some ocean front property in Arizona, if you buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free.




:lmao2: [I crack me up...I admit it...I really am my #1 biggest fan...Oh well]

[Independent Harry]

Palin was attacked, stop pretending otherwise. Go drink some windex, maybe that will open your mind.
The Thug-Elect ain't looking like a smaller government leader now is he??

ummm, can you show me the actual attacks? We've been waiting for evidence for months, no one has been able to produce anything accept a couple of blogs and some backwater newspaper, and then the reports started by fox and picked up by other networks of Palin being "attacked".

[Cat slave]

He doesnst have to produce diddly squat. We all saw it unfold into a full
blown attack machine. We all know what happened. With or without a link.
Many of us can find information without a link to prove it exits.

[Independent Harry]

He doesnst have to produce diddly squat. We all saw it unfold into a full
blown attack machine. We all know what happened. With or without a link.
Many of us can find information without a link to prove it exits.

Except, no one could. It was a report from Fox that started it, and then everyone else started reporting it, but who was it that attacked Palin. there was no machine, and you still think Palin is good at governing and is an intelligent person...which tells us a lot about your ability to assimilate information.

[Moby]

He doesnst have to produce diddly squat. We all saw it unfold into a full blown attack machine.
Really, Seedy kept posting statements where people were being told that there was a smear campaign but wasn't able to really show that it actually existed.

Being told what to beleive and seeing it with your own eyes are two very different things but often can seem real when they appear on TV.

[Smurf-Herder]

Really, Seedy kept posting statements where people were being told that there was a smear campaign but wasn't able to really show that it actually existed.

Being told what to beleive and seeing it with your own eyes are two very different things but often can seem real when they appear on TV.

You're delusional.

[Independent Harry]

You're delusional.

Please produce the attacks then please. He's not delusional, we've been through this, if you can't find them, then how is it that they existed...

[Moby]

You're delusional.
Show me samples of the media attacks before the Neoconservatives started complaining about them. I know before refused claiming that you wouldn't bother pointing out things that could be used against her but the election is over.

Now you can prove that I'm delusional or accept that you bought into the false media reports and perhaps you're delusional. Or at least easily manipulated.

[Smurf-Herder]

This is really sad.

This BS went on throughout the entire campaign on many levels and you idiots are reducing it to a Fox report.

And you people perpetuated it.

Sarah Palin is no longer an issue - except to obsessive liberals who have run out of things to hate.

[Independent Harry]

This is really sad.

This BS went on throughout the entire campaign on many levels and you idiots are reducing it to a Fox report.

And you people perpetuated it.

Sarah Palin is no longer an issue - except to obsessive liberals who have run out of things to hate.

Lol, so then that's a no i can't find anything then?

[Smurf-Herder]

Lol, so then that's a no i can't find anything then?


This is the same bullshit SM tries to incite by using her as his avatar. Dragging it on. I have no interest in Palin as an issue, until we see if she's running in 2012.

You guys are pathetic.

[Hog Trash]

Liberalism is the ideology of hate, initiated by fear. The campaign against McCain was a cut and dry strategy of defeating the opposition, who wasn't actually viewed as much of a threat, therefore no fear resulting in no hate. Palin on the other hand gained almost overnight popularity, which struck terror into the hearts of the liberals. Fear that she may be a threat to Obama, sparked a sincere hatred for her. The accusations that were created and spread this hatred on, ranged from the ridiculous to the absurd.

*Her first baby was really her daughters, and she was promoting a lie.

*She was an unfit and negligent mother because her daughter was now pregnant.

*She had to many family responsibilities to be VP and was a bad mother for even excepting the nomination.

*She misused her powers to fire a State Police officer for personal reasons.

*She wanted to ban books from the library.

*She's nothing but a dumb beauty pageant contestant.

*"You betcha", wink wink, thumbs up!...{Did you hear what she said?...Oh My God, I hate that fucking bitch!}

*Etc etc etc.

The pointless excuses for hatred were many and each one more laughable than the last, while at the same time these liberals could overlook the hatred and racism of Reverend Jeremiah Wright and the Black Liberation Theology Church, Obama attended for 20 years or associations with criminals like Tony Rezco or known unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers and his wife. The list is almost endless.

Governor Sarah Palin is guilty of nothing and only crime was, she was a perceived threat to the liberals beloved Barack Hussein Obama. They repeated their programmed Party lines of hatred so often they now believe them, not only to be true, but serious crimes and infractions.

The blind mindless dedication of these liberal political pawns, is simply amazing.

[Cat slave]

Im on the same page with you HT. That was really crass to torch her church!
Talk about low!!!

[Independent Harry]

This is the same bullshit SM tries to incite by using her as his avatar. Dragging it on. I have no interest in Palin as an issue, until we see if she's running in 2012.

You guys are pathetic.

So you have no evidence then...

[SeedyROM]

ummm, can you show me the actual attacks? We've been waiting for evidence for months, no one has been able to produce anything accept a couple of blogs and some backwater newspaper, and then the reports started by fox and picked up by other networks of Palin being "attacked".


You mean proof like Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews or would you prefer the whores on the View, minus the blond hottie??? We've already been through this, heck I showed you and Moby an ABC interview with an Obama camaign lawyer who was considered ground zero for the Palin attacks. His remarks were not too bad but they sparked off all the hate online and on the tube.

The media are full of absolute tabula rasa's in terms of discussing knowledge of anything relevant to Palin's qualifications, they were a blank slate of zero intellect!!!

You guys will go to hell for lying or are you tabula rasa's too???