Was Dawood Ibrahim behind the Mumbai attack?

[Smurf-Herder]

Research this guy for yourselves. His name keeps popping up in Indian news stories online.

He's a multi-millionaire crime boss, now living in the tribal areas of Pakistan since we put him on our terror list, because of links to Al-Qaeda.

BTW, Lashkar-e-Taiba (the group claimed to be what captured Mumbai attackers were members of, by Indian media) used RDX for mass bombings in Mumbai in 1993, which killed 257 and injured 711, financed by Dawood Ibrahim.

Doing searches, I found someone else on the same trail.

28-11-2008 - Mumbai: Did Dawood Do It? UPDATED

UPDATE BELOW

I'm tripping hard. Yesterday upon reading from IBN Live one of the terrorists captured was a Pakistani and part of the terrorist group "Lashkar-e-Taiba" or "LeT" for short, bells rang, rang loudly and one name popped into my head. Dawood Ibrahim.

I had done extensive research on India's most wanted criminal (Fact Sheet) when I was writing about Abu Salem in the past. I remembered LeT and his connection to it. I began searching again and found a wealth of stuff about Dawood and his connections to LeT and confirmed he was wanted for the 1993 bombings in Mumbai, known as Bombay at that time. He was named an International Terrorist by the US in 2003.

I thought I had a real scoop. I waited until today to write about this and am completely gobsmacked to find others are also pointing the finger at him. He's been in Karachi, Pakistan for ages, ever since the '93 bombings, though Pakistan has denied this. It's really confusing to say the least. There is the information that the terrorists came in by sea.

I found the following, written last year, from Hindu.com:

Interestingly, India’s intelligence services warned last year of efforts by the Karachi-based mafioso Dawood Ibrahim Kaksar to set up operations in Maldives through a Dubai-based firm, Dolphin Management Services. Elements linked to the Dawood mafia are thought to have been involved in at least one recent effort to ship Lashkar terrorists to Mumbai through the Indian Ocean.

I also found this from Intellibriefs, written in 2006:

Just where the explosives came from is still under investigation. Officials are particularly concerned that they arrived on the Maharashtra coast by sea - the same route used to move in the RDX used for the 1993 serial bombings of Mumbai. If so, it would suggest that Karachi-based trafficking networks of mafia baron the Dawood Ibrahim Kaksar have once again been committed to the Islamist terror campaign against India. Given the near-impossibility of securing the coast, India's vulnerabilities are considerable.

Wow, I could keep pasting things that point to Dawood, but I believe I've made my point. He's culpable, culpable as hell. Oops, not finished. Today when searching "Dawood Mumbai 2008" I gasped when finding the following headline from Thaindian ‘Dawood and ISI involved in Mumbai attack’. Rediff headlines "Mumbai attack shows Lashkar, al Qaeda hand" and goes on to write:

The involvement of the criminal underworld in Mumbai in carrying out the attacks is strongly suspected. The 1993 blasts were carried out by the members gang lead by Dawood Ibrahim, who now lives in Karachi, Pakistan. Dawood was designated as a terrorist supporter in 2003 by the US government for his links with al Qaeda (sharing his smuggling routes with the terror syndicate). Dawood also financed Lashkar activities, a group suspected to have organised the Mumbai attacks.

Holyshite, I decided to search "dawood ibrahim terrorist list" and found this fromTimes Online from the UK, dated today:

India's security forces are also investigating the possible involvement of Bombay's most notorious mafia gang in the attacks - the network operated by Dawood Ibrahim, an organised crime boss who ranks among the world's top five most-wanted men and is widely believed to have links with al-Qaeda.

Dr Lakshman, of the Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management, said: "The level of local logistical support given to the terrorists suggests the involvement of Dawood Ibrahim's group."

Ibrahim, who is believed to be in exile in the Middle East or Pakistan and has been described by the US as "a global terrorist", is thought to have masterminded the 1993 Bombay bombings, which claimed 250 lives.
Dawood is also known by many names: Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar, Shaikh Dawood Hassan, Shaikh Ibrahim, Dawood Bhai, Dawood Sabri, Iqbal Seth, Amir, and Hizrat. I have to stop. I could fill pages with all I've found. I find a certain satisfaction that I zeroed in on Dawood yesterday before his name was mentioned in connection with the terrible, tragic attacks on India, which are still ongoing.

UPDATE: 5:58 PM
I can't let this go. I've read his name listed on site after site, but not on any American sites. I found an article from Italy which goes into depth about Dawood. This is the translation, easy to follow for once. From Il Foglio, headlined, "In the gray area between India and Pakistan here who is Osama Indian; subheaded,"Portrait of Dawood Ibrahim, character key to understanding the connection of terrorist Mumbai." It's quite a read, complete with picture.

Brenda Stardom
9:01 AM

http://www.brendastardom.com/arch.asp?ArchID=1426

[Bill]

Sounds possible.

It's a bit frustrating, waiting for the slower investigative systems in that part of the world to go to work and dig up the trails of evidence.

Altho maybe it just seems slower...

[SeedyROM]

Never heard of Dawood Ibrahim, I wonder if he has ties to bin Laden? The government is suggesting the terrorist group is friendly towards al qaeda' efforts. If they support al qaeda's cause then it all makes sense, its a sign of the times. I've been wondering when and if gun attacks would begin in this country. Kill'em back !!!!

The reports suggest the gunmen came in the back doors because no metal detectors are on those doors. Indians also think they had help from some employees.

They killed a Rabbi Priest from NYC too. The attack on Americans continues. And dems are foolish enough to think we should stop using the phrase "War on Terror" how stupid. Like how is removing such a phrase going to discourage terrorism. Terrorism has been growing for decades, long before the phrase was created.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/mumbai_terror_attacks/2008/11/29/156377.html?s=al&promo_code=7231-1
According to The Associated Press, victims of the Mumbai attacks include New York Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg and his wife, Rivkah, who were found at a Chabad Lubavitch Jewish center attacked by Muslim militants. Their son, Moshe, was saved.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/taj_hotel_tata/2008/11/29/156436.html?s=al&promo_code=7231-1
Taj Mahal Hotel Owner: We Had Warning

The owner of the Taj Mahal hotel says the Mumbai hotel had been warned of a possible terrorist attack prior to this week's deadly terror assault.


Tata Group Chairman Ratan Tata would not provide details about the warning or the security measures that were enacted as a result, but he told CNN that they were eased in the days before gunmen entered the hotel.


Tata also told CNN's Fareed Zakaria that even if the security precautions had still been in place, they wouldn't have stopped the gunmen because they entered the building through a rear door that does not have a metal detector.


"If I look at what we had ... it could not have stopped what took place," Tata said. "It's ironic that we did have such a warning, and we did have some measures. People couldn't park their cars in the portico, where you had to go through a metal detector. They knew what they were doing, and they did not go through the front. All of our arrangements are in the front. They planned everything," he said of the attackers. "I believe the first thing they did, they shot a sniffer dog and his handler. They went through the kitchen."


Tata said the terrorists were very organized and moved with detailed precision.


"They seemed to know [the hotel] in the night or in the daytime. They seemed to have planned their moves quite well, and there seem to have been a lot of pre-planning."


The terrorists attacked nine sites in Mumbai in a 60-hour assault that left at least 195 people dead.


The Tata Group is the largest private corporate group in India. It has interests in steel, automobiles, information technology, communication, power, tea and hotels.

[Bill]

It's not about removing the phrase, it's that terrorism is better fought with an investigative and policing approach than a military approach.

"War on Terror" didn't stop this attack for instance - in fact, it helped it, by making the Pak secret police stronger, making the Paks more opaque, and increasing the hatred and the numbers of people willing to join criminal gangs, and increasing the availability of weapons.

I get that you can't get that.

"Wars on X" are political trickery that works well on the emotional mind and to get funding and votes, but every single one of them has failed in practical terms.

I also get that you don't get that.

[SeedyROM]

It's not about removing the phrase, it's that terrorism is better fought with an investigative and policing approach than a military approach.

"War on Terror" didn't stop this attack for instance - in fact, it helped it, by making the Pak secret police stronger, making the Paks more opaque, and increasing the hatred and the numbers of people willing to join criminal gangs, and increasing the availability of weapons.

I get that you can't get that.

"Wars on X" are political trickery that works well on the emotional mind and to get funding and votes, but every single one of them has failed in practical terms.

I also get that you don't get that.

You are making excuse to suggest the "war on terror" helped with encouraging attacks. Show me proof or you are just making a play on words, with no substance. Terrorist attacks have been commonplace long before the phrase was created!

I understand far more than you could possible comprehend. Your the one who thought Obama would curtail NSA wiretapping, yet I knew he was pandering for votes as he did on nearly a dozen issues. I also get it that you don't get that too!!

[SeedyROM]

Did Bill Clinton's "War on Drugs" actually encouraged more drug smuggling and more drug use due to resentment and rebellion. Oh yea, I get what you don't get. Deepack Chopara is full of shit. Investigative and policing approach only works in countries that are committed to stopping terrorism. Policing may work in India if the Paki's cooperate as they now suggest. But for how long, these two countries nearly went to war not long ago.

The War on Terror is just a phrase, it was invented after September 11, 2001
Last time I checked there have been no significant terrorist attacks in the USA, or did I sleep thru one. The silly idealogy that we can rename something is not going to work.

Bill did you forget about the USS Cole, how about the US Embassy in Africa, Pan Am Locherbe, etc. etc......... all those events were pre 9/11. Terrorism is growing due to the fact that they have more money and more people recruiting all across the ME and the EU too. We killed off many of them in Iraq, more will be killed in Afganistan. Those fucks will not go away because some fucking idiot guru thinks we should rename the War on Terror.

What would we call it, "Reciprocity to Jihad" "Infidels Kind Response" or how about " The Jihad Follies on Sand" :lmao2: :lmao2: No matter the name, the bastards are not going to stop. They never will, its kill'em or convert to the Muslim faith, but guess what, they hate certain muslim countries too, so we can't win by converting to muslim faith either. Diplomacy works with some countries, WMD's work in others. I get it, you people don't!!

[Bill]

Did I suggest Obama would curtail illegal wiretapping?

I don't recall. I do remember calling obama a rightist/centrist many times during the months before the election.

The rest of your posts were a bit incoherent - If you'd like to pick a specific point we can discuss it.

It's a fairly well known principle that guerilla forces are best attacked thru investigation and policing. Trying to attack them with armies just plays into the guerilla strategic handbook.

It remains to be seen wether we will be able to rebuild our diplomatic relations with other countries, and build the kind of worldwide investigative cooperation and investigative forces that will have the best chance of stopping terror tactics.

However, the long term solution will involve resolving the planetary inequalities that breed hate. And that's a centuries long task.

Untill then, you don't need my permission to keep masturbating to your "war on terror".

[asroc]

SeedyROM when you make these posts you really need to take a deep breath and just stick to relevant things.

[ROdger Right]

if they wished to be equal why did their god not give them the abiltity to create the technology that we the christians did.
all he did was put some oil in the ground for them and were taking that anyways. I cant help that i have a superior god and he chooses us to make the world how it is.
Whats the point of giving a shit about people on the other side of the world when we dont give a shit about the people here that are losing jobs and whatever else problems they have.

[asroc]

I cant help that i have a superior god

Pretty much says it all.

[SeedyROM]

Did I suggest Obama would curtail illegal wiretapping?

I don't recall. I do remember calling obama a rightist/centrist many times during the months before the election.

The rest of your posts were a bit incoherent - If you'd like to pick a specific point we can discuss it.

It's a fairly well known principle that guerilla forces are best attacked thru investigation and policing. Trying to attack them with armies just plays into the guerilla strategic handbook.

It remains to be seen wether we will be able to rebuild our diplomatic relations with other countries, and build the kind of worldwide investigative cooperation and investigative forces that will have the best chance of stopping terror tactics.

However, the long term solution will involve resolving the planetary inequalities that breed hate. And that's a centuries long task.


Actually you were in favor of Obama's plan to curtail the NSA, I knew it was a BS speech. You made a comment several weeks ago and I commented that the NSA speech was dilberant bunk to build support.
I'm not ready to call BO a centrist, just yet. It appears in the last two weeks he is eaning that way. If he stands up to Pelosi and Reed and pushes them back then maybe. He'll also have to abandom several pet projects and radical ideals that he can deliver what the loony side of the party wants. The normal dems side is way smarter than the loonies.

Guerilla tactics are different, I know the methods quite well. I was talking about terrorism in general which is quite apparant in the post above. The war on terror is not important enough, a name change is a waste of time. Capture or kill is the only option. Making the war on terror into a silly metaphor leads to false expectations. We need to build diplomatic efforts but until those countries have leaders both political and military that have the same committement, we will see blowback and more failure. I've seen this up close many times, they agree so much then they rebell and insist we are interfering. Which is true but we only do it for the greater good and to establish commerce. Guerilla strategies have been foiled in Iraq for years. Slow and steady assaults killed and demoralized the enemy.

ME leaders need to fight to destroy the hate, ignorance and collusion within which feeds the distrust. They must also jail all the political, bureacrat, and capitalist supporters of terrorists. Diplomatic efforts can work if both sides stay committed. Its hard to be diplomatic and convince ME leaders we only want to help. Some of our diplomats are too aggressive and appear condescending disrepsectful......both parties have employed arrogant asses. This I know to be true, histroy has recorded it. They need to be retrained to talk to muslims in a more acceptable tone. These ME people act like royalty, its the way of the Koran.

Policing comes after millitary action. Lack of policing leads to continued terrorism. The public must comprehend that dilpomacy can only work if and when governments truely want to end terrorism. As is most ME countries refuse to fight terrorism on a national and local level. They push and pull back and the cockroaches regroup and move towards the next plot. Most have never seen military strategy working up close, I have. We are taking down guerilla forces in Iraq street by street, regardless of the failures we are winning. Would you rather pull out and watch the masses die. 2 million dies after we pulled out of Vietnam!!!

Ending the War on Terror phrase will not solve anything. In fact that idiot guru Chopara suggests ending the phrase and beginning "The Marshall Plan" and pay off $$$ the terrorists or thier countries. Guess where that money will go, the next terror plot or will it buy terrorists a nice vacation? The MP worked for Europe and it aided Russia. The ME is way too religous. Money only feeds the fire.

Changing govt leaders helps only so much. Money will calm down the ME in the short run but the reality is, in the long run money will buy the terrorists time to rebuild thier recruiting efforts to build the next army of terrorists. In case you forgot, Clinton tried to Marshall the ME and look at the world today. Money did more harm than good. Clintons efforts were noble but they gave money to people who had thier own agenda. Today such agendas are still common.

Till they elect leaders who will stop at nothing to stampout terrorism, it will be up to us to help them fight the good fight. Then policing will be an option. Iraq is not at the point where policing without military force is possible but it is within sight. India can use police and intelligence agencies, but they may have to use the military to strike hard and fast or more will die. Fortunatley, the country is ramping up such efforts and Pakistan is cooperating with the investigation.

We are talking about NOMADS, not citizens of any country. Nomads live to fight, nothing else matters and destroy all technology and those who are not muslim. The recruits who attacked in India are a sign of future events. Killing back Al queda and taking thier money will silence thier efforts to encourage splinter groups.



fyi, There was noting incoherant about my posts, your selfish refusal to honestly and openly discuss issues was the problem. I can point out many threads where you guys refused admit/discuss the truths written about Obama. I can discuss thenegative of any politician regardless of party affiliation. I guess its easier to masterbate in the land of denial than make intelligent converstation. But you guys couldn't even admit the negatives that AP News, Rueters and CNN had to say about Obama. I guess its okay to bastardize women and pretend Obama is off limits, well not in my country, that will never fly!!!

[SeedyROM]

SeedyROM when you make these posts you really need to take a deep breath and just stick to relevant things.

Pretending I'm not discussing relevant issues is nonsense. You and Bill refused to accept that I was talking about two issues at once. Stupid war on terror nonsense will not change a thing. The military have been using guerilla tacts to circumvent terrorism for the last 8 years in Iraq. You do not have enough education on the tactics that were implemented let alone the desire to openly discuss the matter. Maybe you should load that hacker software and go snoop some more?:thumbsup:

[asroc]

The military have been using guerilla tacts to circumvent terrorism for the last 8 years in Iraq.

Haha, what? I don't think "not having body armor" is a guerilla tactic.

Maybe you should load that hacker software and go snoop some more?:thumbsup:

I have no idea what this means.

[asroc]

You are making excuse to suggest the "war on terror" helped with encouraging attacks. Show me proof or you are just making a play on words, with no substance.

I guess I would take the word of American Intelligence in the NIE, wouldn't you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html

[SeedyROM]

Haha, what? I don't think "not having body armor" is a guerilla tactic.


Would you rather they fight without body armor? Seriously! You know little about the strategy on the ground. I guess we need to load some video interviews to prove we are fighting with guerrilla counter strategies. I'll read the Treasonist NY Times article after a late lunch.

[asroc]

That doesn't really make any sense in regards to what I said, SeedyROM.

I'm serious, take some real time to read and absorb what people say.

It looks like you just grab ahold of a bunch of keywords and start ranting, completely oblivious to any context.

[SeedyROM]

That doesn't really make any sense in regards to what I said, SeedyROM.

I'm serious, take some real time to read and absorb what people say.

It looks like you just grab ahold of a bunch of keywords and start ranting, completely oblivious to any context.

Oh no no no, you can't take a joke now can you! You lay out the sarcasm and expect me to take it serious. LOL, read the previous response again, I swear to God it was a sarcastic joke. Opps I said God, now you won't take me serious.:D rant less Asroc and join in.

[SeedyROM]

Smurfy you were right, Lashkar-e-Taiba has been a problem lurking around for quite some time. We never hear much about smaller groups or ones that appear dormant actually go underground and fade the landscape. We didn't forget them though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3537247/Lashkar-e-Taiba-the-group-accused-of-Mumbai-attacks.html
The group, whose name means "Army of the Pious" is on the US watch- list of terrorist organisations, was established to fight Indian rule in Kashmir and has past links to both Pakistani intelligence and al- Qaeda.

President Asif Zardari recently allowed the jihadi leader to import a bulletproof vehicle.

Mr Saeed is known to have received substantial funds from Saudi donors and Pakistani intelligence to launch his group.

In 2002 Pakistan captured a close lieutenant of Osama bin Laden, Abu Zubaydah, a Palestinian-Jordanian, who was given shelter by members of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Lashkar-e-Taiba is now run by Qari Abdul Wahid Kashmiri, who was once a member of Saeed's religious party.

Security sources say the Pakistani intelligence ended its connection to Lashkar-e-Taiba after it was linked to two suicide assassination attempts on Mr Musharraf in 2004.

Retired ISI officials have said that they lost control of elements of several of the jihadi groups they had created to fight security forces in Indian-held Kashmir in the 1990s.

Pakistan has called on India to prove the LeT was involved in the Mumbai attacks.

This is only an allegation. We have demanded evidence of the complicity of any Pakistani group," said Farhatullah Babar, a spokesman for President Zardari. "We will take the strictest action against any group or individual ... if India provides us the evidence."

LeT's chief spokesman yesterday denied the group was involved.


http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/lashkar.htm
The United States in October 2001 announced the addition of the LT to the US Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) list—which includes organizations that are believed to support terrorist groups and have assets in US jurisdiction that can be frozen or controlled. The group was banned, and the Pakistani Government froze its assets in January 2002. The LT is also known by the name of its associated organization, Jamaat ud-Dawa (JUD). Musharraf placed JUD on a watchlist in November 2003.

Activities

The LT has conducted a number of operations against Indian troops and civilian targets in Jammu and Kashmir since 1993. The LT claimed responsibility for numerous attacks in 2001, including an attack in January on Srinagar airport that killed five Indians along with six militants; an attack on a police station in Srinagar that killed at least eight officers and wounded several others; and an attack in April against Indian border-security forces that left at least four dead. The Indian Government publicly implicated the LT—along with JEM—for the attack on 13 December 2001 on the Indian Parliament building, although concrete evidence is lacking. The LT is also suspected of involvement in the attack on 14 May 2002 on an Indian Army base in Kaluchak that left 36 dead. Senior al-Qaida lieutenant Abu Zubaydah was captured at an LT safehouse in Faisalabad in March 2002, suggesting some members are facilitating the movement of al-Qaida members in Pakistan.

Strength

Has several thousand members in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan, and in southern Jammu and Kashmir and Doda regions and in the Kashmir valley. Almost all LT cadres are Pakistanis from madrassas across Pakistan and Afghan veterans of the Afghan wars. Uses assault rifles, light and heavy machineguns, mortars, explosives, and rocket-propelled grenades.

Location/Area of Operation

Based in Muridke (near Lahore) and Muzaffarabad.

External Aid

Collects donations from the Pakistani community in the Persian Gulf and United Kingdom, Islamic NGOs, and Pakistani and other Kashmiri business people. The LT also maintains a Web site (under the name of its associated organization Jamaat ud-Daawa), through which it solicits funds and provides information on the group’s activities. The amount of LT funding is unknown. The LT maintains ties to religious/ military groups around the world, ranging from the Philippines to the Middle East and Chechnya through the fraternal network of its parent organization Jamaat ud-Dawa (formerly Markaz Dawa ul-Irshad). In anticipation of asset seizures by the Pakistani Government, the LT withdrew funds from bank accounts and invested in legal businesses, such as commodity trading, real estate, and production of consumer goods.

[asroc]

Oh no no no, you can't take a joke now can you! You lay out the sarcasm and expect me to take it serious. LOL, read the previous response again, I swear to God it was a sarcastic joke. Opps I said God, now you won't take me serious.:D rant less Asroc and join in.

I'm still not understanding a single thing you're saying, sorry.

Is English your second language or something? Serious question, I mean no offense by it.

It would explain an awful lot. Especially the inability to process idiomatic speech and tenor.

[SeedyROM]

Yea right!