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View Full Version : This might be good news - Peak Oil delayed?


Bill
03-06-2007, 04:38 PM
I'd be the first to confess that I'm a peak oiler that worries about the end of the oil age.

But, there is nothing I'd like to hear more than that the end of the oil age has been put further into the future.

Well, here are a couple of articles that claim just that - in this case, that "new" extraction techniques are reviving production from fields formerly thought spent, because the higher prices per barrel can now make the new methods profitable.

The articles don't seem to mention or address one puzzling fact - that total world oil production dropped rather than rose in 2001 to 2004 (last I checked, figures weren't available for 2005 and 2006, but I have read that production may have risen in those years as countries pumped harder to take advantage of higher prices.)

I really hope that the era of cheap oil is extended - it would be nice to be able to just enjoy my eventual retirement, somewhat protected by a buffer of an oil peak that doesn't happen until 2050.

Here are the articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/business/05oil1.html?ei=5087%0A&em=&en=a9ff5f24c2d39b38&ex=1173330000&pagewanted=print

"The oil industry is well known for seeking out new sources of fossil fuel in far-flung places, from the icy plains of Siberia to the deep waters off West Africa. But now the quest for new discoveries is taking place alongside a much less exotic search that is crucial to the world’s energy supplies. Oil companies are returning to old or mature fields partly because there are few virgin places left to explore, and, of those, few are open to investors.

At Bakersfield, for example, Chevron is using steam-flooding technology and computerized three-dimensional models to boost the output of the field’s heavy oil reserves. Even after a century of production, engineers say there is plenty of oil left to be pumped from Kern River.

“We’re still finding new opportunities here,” said Steve Garrett, a geophysicist with Chevron. “It’s not over until you abandon the last well, and even then it’s not over.”

Some forecasters, studying data on how much oil is used each year and how much is still believed to be in the ground, have argued that at some point by 2010, global oil production will peak — if it has not already — and begin to fall. That drop would usher in an uncertain era of shortages, price spikes and economic decline.

“I am very, very seriously worried about the future we are facing,” said Kjell Aleklett, the president of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas. “It is clear that oil is in limited supplies.”

Many oil executives say that these so-called peak-oil theorists fail to take into account the way that sophisticated technology, combined with higher prices that make searches for new oil more affordable, are opening up opportunities to develop supplies. As the industry improves its ability to draw new life from old wells and expands its forays into ever-deeper corners of the globe, it is providing a strong rebuttal in the long-running debate over when the world might run out of oil.

Typically, oil companies can only produce one barrel for every three they find. Two usually are left behind, either because they are too hard to pump out or because it would be too expensive to do so. Going after these neglected resources, energy experts say, represents a tremendous opportunity."

http://www.cera.com/aspx/cda/public1/news/pressReleases/pressReleaseDetails.aspx?CID=8444

"CAMBRIDGE, Mass., November 14, 2006 – In contrast to a widely discussed theory that world oil production will soon reach a peak and go into sharp decline, a new analysis of the subject by Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) finds that the remaining global oil resource base is actually 3.74 trillion barrels -- three times as large as the 1.2 trillion barrels estimated by the theory’s proponents -- and that the “peak oil” argument is based on faulty analysis which could, if accepted, distort critical policy and investment decisions and cloud the debate over the energy future.

“The global resource base of conventional and unconventional oils, including historical production of 1.08 trillion barrels and yet-to-be-produced resources, is 4.82 trillion barrels and likely to grow,” CERA Director of Oil Industry Activity Peter M. Jackson writes in Why the Peak Oil Theory Falls Down: Myths, Legends, and the Future of Oil Resources. The CERA projection is based on the firm’s analysis of fields currently in production and those yet-to-be produced or discovered.

“The ‘peak oil’ theory causes confusion and can lead to inappropriate actions and turn attention away from the real issues,” Jackson observes. “Oil is too critical to the global economy to allow fear to replace careful analysis about the very real challenges with delivering liquid fuels to meet the needs of growing economies. This is a very important debate, and as such it deserves a rational and measured discourse.”

“This is the fifth time that the world is said to be running out of oil,” says CERA Chairman Daniel Yergin. “Each time -- whether it was the ‘gasoline famine’ at the end of WWI or the ‘permanent shortage’ of the 1970s -- technology and the opening of new frontier areas has banished the specter of decline. There’s no reason to think that technology is finished this time.”

The report emphasizes the importance of focusing on the critical issues. “It is not helpful to couch the debate in terms of a superficial analysis of reservoir constraints. It will be aboveground factors such as geopolitics, conflict, economics and technology that will dictate the outcome.” The report also points to such aboveground questions as timing and openness to investment, infrastructure development, and the impact of technological change on demand for oil.


Undulating Plateau

The new report describes CERA’s liquids supply outlook as “not a view of endless abundance.” However, based on a range of potential scenarios and field-by-field analysis, CERA finds that not only will world oil production not peak before 2030, but that the idea of a peak is itself “a dramatic but highly questionable image.”

Global production will eventually follow an “undulating plateau” for one or more decades before declining slowly. The global production profile will not be a simple logistic or bell curve postulated by geologist M. King Hubbert, but it will be asymmetrical – with the slope of decline more gradual and not mirroring the rapid rate of increase -- and strongly skewed past the geometric peak. It will be an undulating plateau that may well last for decades. "

Linkster
03-06-2007, 11:31 PM
I dont know why these guys keep putting out these projections - other than the fact that they are an industry sponsored think tank that gets money to "calm down" the public - last year they put out a presentation that said 2015 for exactly the same points that they later contradicted and said 2030 - unfortunatelywhat they usually leave out is that they base their numbers on what "could possibly" be done - not what is actually being done

Of course it doesnt really matter with the Tectonic plate shift that will occur in 2012 - when the earth reverses rotation as it moves through the center of the black hole gravitational field center - its been 28,000 years since it occured last time - and totally destroyed everything on earth - I guess thats why the Aztec/Mayan calender and I Ching only go to Dec 29th 2012 :)

juggernaut
03-07-2007, 01:32 AM
I dont know why these guys keep putting out these projectionsAgreed, this is no differant then looking into a crystal ball. It's so easy to say things will or will not happen. You have a 50/50 chance of looking great. I never really did well with predictions.

Of course it doesnt really matter with the Tectonic plate shift that will occur in 2012 - when the earth reverses rotation as it moves through the center of the black hole gravitational field center - its been 28,000 years since it occured last time - and totally destroyed everything on earth - I guess thats why the Aztec/Mayan calender and I Ching only go to Dec 29th 2012 :)Love it.

Mr. Blue
03-07-2007, 08:44 AM
I'd be the first to confess that I'm a peak oiler that worries about the end of the oil age.

Join the club, lol, but I don't seriously think this is going to delay anything.

People keep thinking that this thing or that thing will save us from the inevitable problem peak oil faces. Unless some egghead scientist thinks up some really good crap we're heading towards a bad time.

Tommy
03-07-2007, 12:02 PM
Unless some egghead scientist thinks up some really good crap we're heading towards a bad time.

I dont know about that

couldn't we use electric cars and generate that power from wind, solar, nat gas, Coal, Nuclear, Hydro electric and thermo electric

the us has more coal then the middle east has oil

Mr. Blue
03-07-2007, 12:30 PM
I dont know about that

couldn't we use electric cars and generate that power from wind, solar, nat gas, Coal, Nuclear, Hydro electric and thermo electric

the us has more coal then the middle east has oil

It's not quite that simple...basically the world economy is a petrol based one...it's so wrapped around economies that you can't just plug in something else once the oil runs out.

I think that's the problem is that we have to start taking action today, but will people be willing to take the financial burden now when they can palm it off on their kids later? Unfortunately no. By the time people are scared enough to do something it'll just be too late.

Tommy
03-07-2007, 12:48 PM
It's not quite that simple...basically the world economy is a petrol based one...it's so wrapped around economies that you can't just plug in something else once the oil runs out.



but actually you could just plug in an electric car :lmao2:

the infrastructure is already there with the power grid

sure we would need hundreds maybe thousands of new power plants

and maybe we don't need so many new power plants
if every structure generated 10 to 20% of its own power thru solar or wind

I was even thinking you could put solar panels on cars
so the battery system gets a small charge when the car is in the sunlight
that could reduce charging times and extend the range of the car
cause it would be generating a small amount of power when being driven

I think its easily doable

Mr. Blue
03-07-2007, 01:07 PM
but actually you could just plug in an electric car :lmao2:

the infrastructure is already there with the power grid

sure we would need hundreds maybe thousands of new power plants

and maybe we don't need so many new power plants
if every structure generated 10 to 20% of its own power thru solar or wind

I was even thinking you could put solar panels on cars
so the battery system gets a small charge when the car is in the sunlight
that could reduce charging times and extend the range of the car
cause it would be generating a small amount of power when being driven

I think its easily doable

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html

The Second page of life after the oil crash kind of makes you wonder about electric cars, the hydrogen economy, and all the other alternatives. It's just...not pretty.

I'm like Mr. Alternate energy...I love the idea of living off the grid...so when I read the first page of Life After the Oil Crash I was thinking, screw these idiots...alternate energy is the answer...after reading the second page of it, well, I just felt kind of ill. I've read on this topic now from other sources and it doesn't help much.

I'm not saying it's hopeless, but there's going to be some serious tough times ahead.

Bill
03-07-2007, 06:47 PM
I guess this is the other side of the story -

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2344

"The Wide-Spread Use of Advanced Extraction Techniques are Killing the Mother of All Oil Fields

...Ghawar’s obituary has already been written, but the Saudis have thus far prevented the appropriate authorities from entering the house to inspect the body. We have only second hand reports of her demise. Of these accounts, the most notable is investment banker Matthew Simmons’ book Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy. Simmons assembles a picture of declining Saudi production from publicly available technical reports written by Saudi-Aramco’s own reservoir engineers in recent decades. His portrayal of the situation is dire indeed. He claims that “When Saudi Arabia peaks (enters the unavoidable state of permanent production decline) the world, categorically, has peaked.” It looks like the 2006 numbers confirm Simmons’ 2005 prophecy.

The writers at the Oil Drum, a data driven oil analysis website, after assessing the production data from several independent reporting agencies, claim that Saudi production is down a whopping 8% in 2006 from 2005 numbers. The decline would have been closer to 14% without the addition of the Haradh III mega-project. They assert that Saudi Arabia has now officially peaked and that the pace of production decline there is likely to accelerate. Remember, Ghawar accounts for 60% of Saudi production. "

Remember the stories I posted here earlier about Iran being out of oil in (the article writer claimed) ten years? The giant Canterelle oil fiels in mexico is declining by about 10% a year (reported last year) and the mega field in Kuwait, whose name I forget, is also declining at about 6% a year.

I worry that the end of cheap oil (it won't be the end of oil, just the end of cheap oil, under $100 to $200 a barrel) is closer than we think, but I hope that the projections of trilllions of barrels of recoverable and low cost oil are true.

If only the people were aware enough to start preparing for the end of the cherap oil age now - the transition would be so much less violent, bloody, and catastrophic.

Mr. Blue
03-07-2007, 11:18 PM
If only the people were aware enough to start preparing for the end of the cherap oil age now - the transition would be so much less violent, bloody, and catastrophic.

It's going to be a very violent time. The thing is as an individual if you take steps to prepare in advance you're really just kidding yourself as the one thing I know about human nature...take away the creature comforts for 72 hours and our very civilized society goes to hell. One only needs to look at Katrina to see that effect in place.

Caskey_91
03-08-2007, 08:13 AM
but actually you could just plug in an electric car :lmao2:

the infrastructure is already there with the power grid

sure we would need hundreds maybe thousands of new power plants

and maybe we don't need so many new power plants
if every structure generated 10 to 20% of its own power thru solar or wind

I was even thinking you could put solar panels on cars
so the battery system gets a small charge when the car is in the sunlight
that could reduce charging times and extend the range of the car
cause it would be generating a small amount of power when being driven

I think its easily doable


Thing with Electricity to make it you have to well um burn oil. So unless we start building these alternative fuel plants it won't happen.

We won't have a mass amount of alternative fuel plants since it seems like every other politician is in bed w/ the oil comapnies nowadays.

Bill
03-08-2007, 03:48 PM
CNN has an article today about the national security risks of middle eastern oil.

Ex-CIA chief spooked by fossil fuels
R. James Woolsey says the switch to renewables must be made to head off global warming and terrorism.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/08/news/economy/cia_energy/index.htm?cnn=yes

Woolsey told an attentive crowd that the country's heavy reliance on oil has the two-pronged effect of contributing to global warming and helping to finance global terrorism.

"We have risks to our infrastructure and our lives," said Woolsey, who sits on the advisory board of the renewable energy council.

He said of the billions of dollars Saudi Arabia gets from U.S. oil purchases, millions find their way to terrorist organizations within the Middle Eastern country.

Woolsey said an attack last year on an oil processing plant in Saudi Arabia was the work of al Qaeda, and if successful would have knocked out 7 to 8 million barrels of oil exports a day for over a year, most likely causing the price of crude to jump to over $100 a barrel.

"We have to move toward renewables, in the interest of averting global warming and our terrorist problem..."

Bill
03-08-2007, 03:57 PM
Tommy's correct, I think, in thinking that electric cars are the future.

But, we aren't building many new electrical plants. The ones we are building are mostly the old-fashioned coal kind, with no special provisions for handling the carbon dioxide and sulphurs, or they are the cheap and quick to build natural gas kind, and natural gas supplies, once thought to be larger and more reliable than oil, have turned out to be way more volatile and risky than anyone knew.

We need to be building hundreds of new plants, but the ones we need are expensive and still relatively untested.

And, we will end up needing hundreds of new nuclear plants too - and we are way behind in the ability to build the new generations of nuclear electrical plants.

If we were being smart, we would have been switching to electricity for the last 30 years - but our national priorities have been to party and spend on consumer products.

And now we are going to spend trillions to maintain a permanent military presence in the middle east, to guarantee that america controls that oil - instead of developing our own internally secure sources of energy.

I mentioned earlier that we have to control that oil, at least to some extent, because any nation that has oil will always have military supremacy over nations that only have electricity.

So we are stuck, because for the last thirty years we've been consuming, rather than preparing.

AJ
03-08-2007, 03:58 PM
Peak Oil, Global Warming. You guys crack me up. You all need to stop visiting those far left websites

exarmyranger
03-08-2007, 06:00 PM
If gasoline/deisel fuel were the only petroleum product's derived from crude oil,solutions to the energy problems (from lack of oil) could,and I hope,would be initicialized rapidly.The same cannot be said(as of yet)reguarding oil based lubricant's,required for industrial use.Untill some whiz.in a lab somewhere stumbles across a viable option,or additive that retards,the breakdown of oil based lube's viscosity...In the mean time,we could lift the Trade Embargo with Cuba,and lease a few offshore sites,determined to be over deposits of substancial amounts of crude...but we better hurry,they wo'nt (the leases)last,several nations,have already made thier lease agreements.We should begin seeing drilling platforms,off the Coast of Cuba within the next two years.ex

Bill
03-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Well, Ex, we should have quite a long time, many hundreds of years. in which there is enough petroleum to make high value critical items like lubricants.

When I say "the End of the Oil Age", what that really means is "the end of the Age of Oil so Cheap We Can Afford to Burn It for General Transportation...".

Which almost everybody agrees will happen some time this century. Peak Oilers worry that it could happen quicker than anybody expects. And that it could collapse our civilization the same way the Roman Empire collapsed, when it ran out of resources like charcoal.

Wether it happens in ten years or ninety years, oil means global military supremacy. Whoever has the oil is the boss of the world.

exarmyranger
03-08-2007, 08:19 PM
Wether it happens in ten years or ninety years, oil means global military supremacy. Whoever has the oil is the boss of the world.[/QUOTE]
My opinion is basically the same...With one small exception.Whoever is able to Keep Controll of the oil,will be the boss...t/c ex :cool:

stefan segal
03-08-2007, 08:32 PM
Wether it happens in ten years or ninety years, oil means global military supremacy. Whoever has the oil is the boss of the world. Quote Bill

This is only true until the next phase of technological leap. I was reading some stock broker shilling new energy use, and warning away from ethanol and hydrogen, and saying the next thing was vedge-oil diesel/electrics.

This is not some silver bullet, as vedge-oil would put a strain on our food chain and drive up all prices, but there are, keeping with the diesel/electrics, which I think is a good interum step, process that use coal as did Germany in WWII for diesel fuel...and we have hundreds of years of that right here in the USA.

I would welcome anything that killed the oil companies power. I suspect they would and most like are, glomming onto all alternative fuel supplies showing any promise of competng with them.

If I were running this show...I would plow R&D money into making butanol commercially viable...as it competes btu for btu per volume, and is not in the food chain...but will help clean up wastes without producing CO2...but instead, its "waste" gas is hydrogen of a purity that can be utilized in fuel cells without further processing.

This twin path butanol production does qualify for that technological leap...requiring ZERO change in handling, transportation, storage, or the motors the fuel is burnt in, producing so little tailpipe emissions that catalytic converters can be stipped from exhaust systems and still produce far less polutants than is demanded...even by California.

Butanol production's feed stock is localized...meaning that oil cartels would find it difficult to impossible to take over any segment of the chain...as there are too many producers and no great collection points from production to end user.
Fuck big oil !!!

Stefan