Looks Like Religion is About to Be Turned Upside Down

[Linkster]

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20070225073000&clik=www_wh_1

The same guy that did the research into the Titanic has both statistical and DNA evidence (as well as the bones) to prove that Jesus's tomb has been found as well as his son by Mary - Guess we finally get to get rid of these damned Christians once and for all :lmao2:

[Bill]

I thought that was a fascinating story - I've been reading about it too.

Supposedly there's going to be a big announcement about it tomorrow. So we can expect this to be a big hit in the news cycle.

Offhand, I just don't see how dna evidence can be applied in this case - since there is no physical or historical evdence of a Yeshuah ever having existed.

[Caskey_91]

Religion as of late has been very diffrent. With the Da Vinci Code and all. This is a very neat story. Thing is if the bones are the real deal then they should be seen if they are and if they are just re bury them. Don't parade them around.

[Mr. Blue]

It won't have much of a dent in Christianity. It's a peculiarity of faith, people brainwashed to believe a myth won't let anything sway them.

[exarmyranger]

It won't have much of a dent in Christianity. It's a peculiarity of faith, people brainwashed to believe a myth won't let anything sway them.I'll be damned if I did'nt just hear that same description about people and thier faith...Except that it was in reference to the Islamic/Muslim faith.:bowdown: :ugho: :bowdown: ex

[Mr. Blue]

I'll be damned if I did'nt just hear that same description about people and thier faith...Except that it was in reference to the Islamic/Muslim faith.:bowdown: :ugho: :bowdown: ex

All religions are a crock, lol.

It's not hard to dissect a religion and see how they brainwash their followers. I respect people and let them believe in whatever they want to believe...it's too bad those same religious people of all faiths can't respect others the same way.

[Caskey_91]

It won't have much of a dent in Christianity. It's a peculiarity of faith, people brainwashed to believe a myth won't let anything sway them.

I'm just saying that this would make the Da Vinci Code a hell of alot more belivable and everything. This would make a bigger dent than you would expect.

[exarmyranger]

All religions are a crock, lol.

It's not hard to dissect a religion and see how they brainwash their followers. I respect people and let them believe in whatever they want to believe...it's too bad those same religious people of all faiths can't respect others the same way.All are a crock,and most were,or are headed by crooks...selling counterfeit salvation,and assured damnation,if you get too far behind on your addmission to Paridise Payment's! Keep the Faith,Mr.Blue:lmao2: ex

[kres24GT]

Changing someone's religion is about as worthwhile as changing their political beliefs. Facts don't matter.

[Tommy]

good video on MSNBC

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=c096a808-2514-4540-803d-9eeb08733555&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/&fg=

[kres24GT]

By the way I can't wait for the film that disproves Islam.

[Tommy]

do you really need a film for that ???

49 virgins or is it 69 ??

[kres24GT]

do you really need a film for that ???

49 virgins or is it 69 ??


I love to crap on Christians as much as the next guy, but the leftists will never dare crap on Islam, and if anyone did make the movie, it wouldn't be publicized as highly as this one. Christianity is held to an unfair double standard in this country.

All religions are crocks of shit, not just Christianity.

[exarmyranger]

Hmmm,looks like everyone is of the same basic opinion on the religion topic(so far)... I've been saying (in reguards to Easter)"Easter is cancelled,they found the body...for 30 yrs. Mabye this year I'll be correct.ex

[Bill]

Islam is interesting in that it's the most "historical" of all the worlds great religions - that is, we have more corroborating hostorical evidence of it's origins and early history, by far, than any other religion.

So, while there is a disconcerting lack of evidence that Yeshuah/Jesus ever existed, and the gospels were written years after his death was supposed to have happened, and we know quite little about the early christians, we can be pretty sure that a fellow named Mohammad existed, and the possibility exists that he did in fact write all or most of the Koran.

Have you ever read a biography of Mohammad? That was one ruthless mother. Islam came to power because Mohammads followers killed and killed and killed and killed some more - all in the name of Allah, the tribal god whose name was attched to worship of the sacred meteorite.

Then the impregnated all the wives and daughters of the men they killed, given by Mohammad as war booty to Mohammads mujahideen warriors.

[kres24GT]

Islam is interesting in that it's the most "historical" of all the worlds great religions - that is, we have more corroborating hostorical evidence of it's origins and early history, by far, than any other religion.

So, while there is a disconcerting lack of evidence that Yeshuah/Jesus ever existed, and the gospels were written years after his death was supposed to have happened, and we know quite little about the early christians, we can be pretty sure that a fellow named Mohammad existed, and the possibility exists that he did in fact write all or most of the Koran.

Have you ever read a biography of Mohammad? That was one ruthless mother. Islam came to power because Mohammads followers killed and killed and killed and killed some more - all in the name of Allah, the tribal god whose name was attched to worship of the sacred meteorite.

Then the impregnated all the wives and daughters of the men they killed, given by Mohammad as war booty to Mohammads mujahideen warriors.


Islam also says Jesus existed, in fact many of the cast of characters from the bible are in the Koran as well, so how is it the most historically accurate? Are you saying its founding is the most historically accurate? If that's the case, Mormonism is crazy historically accurate, because it's pretty much a fact Joseph Smith existed.

[exarmyranger]

Heh Heh,well put Marine,I feel ya!ex

[Bill]

Mormonism isn't considered one of the worlds "great religions", which are usually listed as, in order of age, vedism, (taoism - disputed wether it should be included), judaism, buddhism, christianity, and finally islam.

Mormonism is a christian splinter sect, a rather successful one. And the history of Mormonism gives us one of the best modern views of how religions start.

Islam started about 600 years after christianity, so naturally islam would have assumed yeshuah existed.

Are you disputing my claim that there's no good historical corroborating evidence that yeshuah existed? Look it up.

[Bill]

Here's another interesting oddity - when I saw the pictures of the ossuaries that Cameron was showing off I instantly recognized them - there's one with two distinctive rosettes carved into the side that's already pretty famous - I didn't realize these were the bone caskets they were talking about.

I really doubt that Cameron has any good new evidence that these are really the bones of jesus, based on those caskets.

But it will be interesting to see if he's got any new evidence.

[exarmyranger]

I may be repeating myself here but...The Islamic faith is one of the top 3 monotheistic(one God)faiths,Judaism,and Christianity,are the others.All three sprang from the same roots.The oldest of the top 3,is Judaism,and is the parent of the Christianity,Islam,and many other faiths.All of which survive in spite of attempted genocide of one another.Read much historical text on the Crusades? Muhammad was mid-level in the Rape,Ruin,Rob,Torture,and Kill game,compared to some religious zealots,in his lifetime,and before and after.ex

[Mr. Blue]

49 virgins or is it 69 ??

I thought it was 72, lol, don't rip them off a few virgins they'll be really pissed.

[exarmyranger]

The only virgins I ever knew were 12 year olds that could outrun thier older brothers..."72" Hell thats close to the national census,in the "Are any members of household above the age of 13 still virgins.HaHa

[kres24GT]

Mormonism isn't considered one of the worlds "great religions", which are usually listed as, in order of age, vedism, (taoism - disputed wether it should be included), judaism, buddhism, christianity, and finally islam.

Mormonism is a christian splinter sect, a rather successful one. And the history of Mormonism gives us one of the best modern views of how religions start.

Islam started about 600 years after christianity, so naturally islam would have assumed yeshuah existed.

Are you disputing my claim that there's no good historical corroborating evidence that yeshuah existed? Look it up.

There is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed, besides that bedtime story book. (I am unaware of the history that made Mel Gibson claim in his movie that Jesus invented the modern table though.) Anyway my point was that the newer a religion is, the more historically accurate it's founding is is a pretty common sense thing, and that the founding of the religion isn't as important as the accuracy behind what the religion is all about.

[stefan segal]

If the two thousand years of selling the phoney bloodstreaked splinters from the "true" cross were to enable some jesus DNA the bones could be verified.

I think it a great joke to isolate some bone DNA and salt an acient blood sampe with it...something like the butch gang attempting to smuggle evidence of weapons of mass destruction into Iraq ( and getting caught by our own forces:).

What an economical tweaking of the world's nose...a couple of hours in a lab...and the pope goes into meltdown.

Maybe a piece of bedsheet with the DNA evidence of mary's crossover into womanhood as a kicker, just to make sure the pope doesn't miss the implications of needing a rewrite on what constitutes an immaculate conception...maybe something as simple as including a 'peter-pan' into the act...so the combatents start out immaculate.

Stefan

[Mr. Blue]

If the two thousand years of selling the phoney bloodstreaked splinters from the "true" cross were to enable some jesus DNA the bones could be verified.

*Goes outside to make some fake cross splinters*

I'm going to make a killing on ebay! Right next to the Jesus H. Christ burnt toast.

[Bill]

There is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed, besides that bedtime story book. (I am unaware of the history that made Mel Gibson claim in his movie that Jesus invented the modern table though.) Anyway my point was that the newer a religion is, the more historically accurate it's founding is is a pretty common sense thing, and that the founding of the religion isn't as important as the accuracy behind what the religion is all about.

Actually, there's none.

Archaeologically, and historically, not one single piece of evidence.

The next piece of historical evidence that Jesus existed discovered, will be the very first one.

I've studied this question, because it's a fascinating mystery. I can talk about it for hours.

Even the common name, Jesus of Nazereth, is a mystery. There was no town or place called Nazereth.

One of the theories about the Nazereth mystery is that it was a kind of play on words - there was a sect of radical Zealot essenes called the Nazorians. Ancient writers were fond of hiding dangerous political statements in made up names, so one of the theories is that the name nazereth was a sly way of saying "Yeshuah the Zealot".

I quite agree with your second point - the newer the religion, the more likely it is that there will be good historical detail about it and it's origins.

Like LDS - I always loved the gold tablet interpretation story - you know the one, the funny one. We all know the saying that one shouldn't know too much about how sausages and law is made - well, we can add religion to that list, ha ha ha!

[Bill]

Read much historical text on the Crusades? Muhammad was mid-level in the Rape,Ruin,Rob,Torture,and Kill game,compared to some religious zealots,in his lifetime,and before and after.ex

Yeah, those Crusaders are right up at the top of the list of lying murderous SOBs, all right.

Mohammad created Islam by slaughtering the men of the tribes who refused to convert. But, like most Arab tribesman, he had a kind of ethic and honor going on about the slaughter.

He and his men liked raping the youngest daughters of their slain opponents, but that was pretty much the standard entertainment for their time.

The Crusaders tended to be plain murderous pricks. Then they got their asses handed to them.

[kres24GT]

Actually, there's none.

Archaeologically, and historically, not one single piece of evidence.

The next piece of historical evidence that Jesus existed discovered, will be the very first one.

I've studied this question, because it's a fascinating mystery. I can talk about it for hours.

Even the common name, Jesus of Nazereth, is a mystery. There was no town or place called Nazereth.

One of the theories about the Nazereth mystery is that it was a kind of play on words - there was a sect of radical Zealot essenes called the Nazorians. Ancient writers were fond of hiding dangerous political statements in made up names, so one of the theories is that the name nazereth was a sly way of saying "Yeshuah the Zealot".

I quite agree with your second point - the newer the religion, the more likely it is that there will be good historical detail about it and it's origins.

Like LDS - I always loved the gold tablet interpretation story - you know the one, the funny one. We all know the saying that one shouldn't know too much about how sausages and law is made - well, we can add religion to that list, ha ha ha!


I disagree with your Jesus statement. Hard evidence?? I guess that's pretty subjective. You could make an argument that 5 seconds ago never really existed and that all memories, data, etc. of such prior existence were just placed here with us 4.99 seconds ago. But sources other than the Bible mention Jesus, like the Koran, and Josefus as well. Multiple sources mentioning the same person would be evidence to some that he existed.

[Tommy]

did ya ever notice that the christian groups freak out when ever somebody uses a cross like Madonna

but they never said a thing about the KKK burning croses

the whole cross thing is so stupid
if you were hit by a bus and killed would you want people to remember you with little models of buses

[Bill]

I disagree with your Jesus statement. Hard evidence?? I guess that's pretty subjective.

Among religionists, evidence is subjective.

Among scientists, there are peer review standards for evidence that make it much less subjective. Interpretation is still subjective, but the methods for determining the quality of evidence are quite good.

Do you think that the people studying this don't desperately want to find even a single piece of good evidence? Doing so would make their careers for life and establish their reputation in the scientific community for centuries to come.

It would make them as famous as Einstein. Their name would be a household word.

When I first started studying this I was shocked to learn that there was no good evidence that Jesus ever existed, and a great deal of evidence, tho that is largely circumstantial and hermeneutic, that he was a fictitious character.

I watch this topic constantly, eager for the news that someone has found anything that suggests that Jesus existed.

[Linkster]

Interesting that you bring that up Tommy - I have some new neighbors that are total idiots - they decided to let their dogs roam the neighborhood - and of course one got killed on the road by the cars that go by here at 70-80 mph(its an old country road so no speed limits)
They erected a sign first saying that speed killed a member of their family (as usual for younger people these days - not taking blame for anything themselves) and then buried the dog in a plot in their front yard with a cross and wreathes
The funny part was I was in my store (I own a tanning salon on the side) and a girl that comes in all the time (HS cheerleader type) asked me "How do they know the dog was Christian?" :lmao2:

(reminds me - I do still have to call the county to see if they have a permit for a pet cemetary on their property) :taunt:

[Bill]

Kres, you mention Josephus, and his Antiquities of the Jews does mention Jesus, but it was written in the late 80s and 90s, long after Jesus's death, by which time the Jesus story and the earliest christians were established, the gospels were being written and the early gospels had been written, and Josephus was well known to have been a collector of stories.

The hermeneutics of the Josephus writing on Jesus are pretty interesting, and also the same for the people who used Josephus as a source, like Origen.

Here's the best known quote:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Notice how he mentions that he "Drew over to him... many of the Gentiles". This is supposed to be hermeneutic evidence that he's repeating a story told by a certain branch of the early christians, during a time when the church was just starting to really expand by embracing gentile converts, something that made the original jewish christians very upset.

---

It's an oddity, because there is contemporary historical evidence of messiahs that appeared around the time of Jesus, like Simon and Athronges.

Simon's a fascinating character.

I'm sure you know the roman theory regarding Paul. It's all fascinating stuff.

[exarmyranger]

did ya ever notice that the christian groups freak out when ever somebody uses a cross like Madonna

but they never said a thing about the KKK burning croses

the whole cross thing is so stupid
if you were hit by a bus and killed would you want people to remember you with little models of buses
What is strange to me is the Ku-Klux-Klan was/or is a Christian organization,who among other things found the mixing of race in any manner as against God's law.That racial purity must be preserved,blah blah.White Christian Groups seem to agree by omission.The #2 group on the Klans "We Fucking Hate You"!"List"... were/are Catholics...All of them... from the Pope,to the Organist/bellringer,to the old lady who skips lunch so she has enough change to make a jingle when she drops it on the collection plate,every sunday! :oldman: In all truthfullness a cross or a religous symbol of any kind,would be veiwed by anyone who knew me in life,as a mistake.I've never been called a Hipocrite,and personally as far as any reference(s)as to the,what of,or where at concerning my death.I would much rather(now...once I'm dead I really do'nt think I'll care)those who love me,remember my life and how I lived,not how,where,or of what I met my death.My familly,and friends will have a place for rememberance,a bronze plaque inscribed with these words(name DOB-DOD)U.S.ARMY RANGER.(over top)of the 101st eagle emblem.Warrior Husband Father "He lived,He loved,He was loved as He lived...His journey ends here. sorry if got a little carried away :melodramatic: lol ex

[Linkster]

For those of you that obviously dont understand the history of the KKK - the image of cross burning/Christian ties is something very recent - perpatrated by many movies and tv shows that are extremely inaccurate

The original purpose is something that Im sure even Stefan here would approve of - basically the original plan for the southern states after the civil war designed by Lincoln was to readmit all of the southern and border states into the union as full ranking members of the government with govenors and representatives - unfortunately Lincoln was shot and his successor was a total weakling. Many bills were passed in congress over his vetos that basically instituted martial law and suspended habeas corpus in the southern states - while assigning commanders (who were extremely corrupt) to the states with a militia to control the states - and raised most of the states tax rates by 1500%

The populus also saw that the "carpetbaggers" came in and used the black population to make their ripoff fortunes from former soldiers and citizens of the south - not reall y the blacks fault but they did follow along with the carpetbaggers and arm themselves as local militias
That population of former soldiers and state officials realized what was happening - basically congress was usurping the constitution making it useless in the south - and organized themselves into "dens" of revolutionaries.
They would use scare tactics to try to oppose the taxation without representation and the use of blacks by the carpetbaggers - the union military troops would not fight against the locals and would not establish any sort of crime prevention - so the carpetbaggers would go on murder, rape and terrorist binges to scare the blacks into seving their cause.

The KKK decided to fight against these carpetbaggers (who mostly were white if that matters) and create a revolution against the northern congress's imposition of rules that violated the constitution. They chose to do it by large groups of "night riders" that would be scary - skelaton costumes etc - and really didnt cause any violence other than a few isolated incidences where women (both black and white) were raped by the carpetbaggers - and those types of illegal activities.

There was no religious underpinning at the time - that came much later in the 1900s - and the hangings and beatings that are always portrayed in movies/shows were really equally against both whites and blacks - anyone that violated the old laws that the carpetbaggers threw out - the KKK originally really was just trying to enforce the same laws we hire police to do now.

The KKK then disbanded and wasnt rebuilt until around 1915 or so when it was recreated for a different purpose - the spread of Christian socialism - by some ministers that felt the country needed to be segregated and a lot more religious that it was - interesting fact - they are the ones that invented the straight arm salute that Hitler used later in his military - but was used by this second version of the Christian solicalist as their pledge of allegience to the US flag (yep this is where it came from that we get our kids to do in school every day)

Now just to make sure no one thinks Im a bigot or pro KKK - I grew up in a small town in the south where I had the ooportunity as a small child to see crosses burning on my front lawn many times - my mother was a newspaper reporter who was the first to start writing civil rights articles in many southern newspapers - and was not liked by the John Birch society/KKK of the time in the 1950s - and my father had to keep a pistol in the glove compartment to protect his senior programmer working for him at Univac as the programmer was black and people had a tendency not to like that he was making more money than them

[stefan segal]

Linkster....thanks...I had no idea of the secular roots of the KKK. I's always good to hear first hand on the ground terstimony of the mood and tone of a place in time. \

Stefan

[kres24GT]

Kres, you mention Josephus, and his Antiquities of the Jews does mention Jesus, but it was written in the late 80s and 90s, long after Jesus's death, by which time the Jesus story and the earliest christians were established, the gospels were being written and the early gospels had been written, and Josephus was well known to have been a collector of stories.

The hermeneutics of the Josephus writing on Jesus are pretty interesting, and also the same for the people who used Josephus as a source, like Origen.

Here's the best known quote:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Notice how he mentions that he "Drew over to him... many of the Gentiles". This is supposed to be hermeneutic evidence that he's repeating a story told by a certain branch of the early christians, during a time when the church was just starting to really expand by embracing gentile converts, something that made the original jewish christians very upset.

---

It's an oddity, because there is contemporary historical evidence of messiahs that appeared around the time of Jesus, like Simon and Athronges.

Simon's a fascinating character.

I'm sure you know the roman theory regarding Paul. It's all fascinating stuff.


I am aware when it was written. Josefus was born about 10 years after Jesus supposedly died. But the same of a HS history book, could be said. I am not saying it is definitive proof, if such a thing exists, I am saying the appearance of a person in multiple sources usually leads scholars to be more inclined to believe that person existed.

One of the knocks against Jesus, is that he is almost a carbon copy of Krishna, a Hindu messiah. There stories are eerily similar. In my non expert opinion as an amateur theologian who is an agnostic, from what I know, i would say the person Jesus did exist, but the story behind his life is probably more fiction than fact.

[exarmyranger]

In my non expert opinion as an amateur theologian who is an agnostic, from what I know, i would say the person Jesus did exist, but the story behind his life is probably more fiction than fact.[/QUOTE]
:cool: Yo Bill,if I were held at gunpoint,and were being forced to answer,yes or no..."do you believe that a man called Jesus excisted,as described in the Bible?...I could truthfully say NO.The same answer would apply to the four Gospels,acts,21 letters,and the book of revelation.27 books in the New Testament...The Old Testament(Hebrew Bible)39 books in three divisions,the Law,the Prophets,and the Writings.I would like to ask your opinion as to whether the 14 books of the Apocrypha,300 BC,should be conciderd Scripture? ex

[kres24GT]

Among religionists, evidence is subjective.

Among scientists, there are peer review standards for evidence that make it much less subjective. Interpretation is still subjective, but the methods for determining the quality of evidence are quite good.

Do you think that the people studying this don't desperately want to find even a single piece of good evidence? Doing so would make their careers for life and establish their reputation in the scientific community for centuries to come.

It would make them as famous as Einstein. Their name would be a household word.

When I first started studying this I was shocked to learn that there was no good evidence that Jesus ever existed, and a great deal of evidence, tho that is largely circumstantial and hermeneutic, that he was a fictitious character.

I watch this topic constantly, eager for the news that someone has found anything that suggests that Jesus existed.


I am not religious, but historical evidence and its validity is always suspect, and subjective. It's not a science that can be proven without a doubt until we event time machines.

[exarmyranger]

I am not religious, but historical evidence and its validity is always suspect, and subjective. It's not a science that can be proven without a doubt until we event time machines.:thumbsup:True,true kres.It cannot be disproven either,though.Science(s)like Anthropology,Genetic Biology,Geology...and men like Darwin. Who imo was not as much ahead of his time(1859)as 99% of the people were behind the times...when he assigned the major role in evolutionary change to,Natural Selection,(now known to be by genetic change or mutation) :eek: "Mutation":melodramatic:God Forbid!LOL ex

[Tommy]

so... what did you guys think of the discovery special

I was very disapointed
the guy left a few big holes and with these people you really need to have your stuff much tighter

[kres24GT]

so... what did you guys think of the discovery special

I was very disapointed
the guy left a few big holes and with these people you really need to have your stuff much tighter


Got it on DVR, haven't checked it out yet. It's 3 hours, not sure I will get to it anytime soon.

[Bill]

I went into the program not expecting much, so I enjoyed the show, and I thought the statistical argument was at least interesting.

But, it doesn't come close to anything like a proof. Just an interesting story.

The image of Jesus as a rebellious son of a fairly wealthy family (wealthy enough to afford a fine family tomb, by the standards of that day) was good for a few chuckles.

[AJ]

I have decided to particpate in a boycott of the discovery channel
http://media.afa.net/newdesign/ReleaseDetail.asp?id=3528
and the rest of you should consider supporting us

The Bible clearly says that that Jesus ascended into heaven bodily. So there would not be any bones left behind

Silly Libs, Religion is for God Fearing Adults not empty headed children

[exarmyranger]

I have decided to particpate in a boycott of the discovery channel
http://media.afa.net/newdesign/ReleaseDetail.asp?id=3528
and the rest of you should consider supporting us

The Bible clearly says that that Jesus ascended into heaven bodily. So there would not be any bones left behind

Silly Libs, Religion is for God Fearing Adults not empty headed childrenYes the "New Testament" would say that,in light of the fact it was written after his(J.C.'s)life on earth was over.His rise from death,and subsequent assention to heaven was/is the basis of christian religeous beliefs,the rich,and powerful regimes of the times made use of these new christian(s)by placing the Mother Church in a Posistion of political power,as well as Shepard of the Flock,The Voice of God,and the Salvation of lost soul's.Since it's inception,untill,being legitemized by (not shear numbers) but those who Ruled their lands,without any Muslim,Judism,ect.For one reason alone...does the phraze "Onward Christian Soldiers".give anyone a hint? ex It ext

[Linkster]

Silly Libs, Religion is for God Fearing Adults not empty headed children

Hmmm - my saying has always been Religion is for Empty Headed Adults - seems it still works

[exarmyranger]

Yep it sure look's that way,do'nt it now? I am not prone to worry,or to spend much time dwelling on matters that are beyond my controll,and which will(in my remaining years)continue to be such...However,I do get a peculiar pang in my gut,when some closed/single minded person(s)self righteous exponent of theological text...Is able to convince other's in need of comfort,when forced to face the reality's of todays worldwide problems to, "trust in the lord" ...t/c ex,

[stefan segal]

I've been trying to stay out of this idiot discussion, but I can't stand it.

AJ...when was the last time you saw bones ascend? You say words you read off the crib you wrote on your cuff...have you ever thought what they mean?

Think about it...then spread your cheeks and let fly more of your wisdom of the ages.

I can't believe you are so fucking dumb and then brag about being stupid.

On the other hand I guess it makes sense when considering that you're too dumb to realize just how stupid and bigoted an asshole you really are, so you also don't know enough to hide it.

So that makes you dumb enough to think about flying bones and "is this jesus"...and what possible difference could it make if it was?

Whomever's grave it was, it's just old bones that probably carry some disease from the past...that's the only real message...a new plague.

Wait a minute...AJ...you would probably know the answer to this...didn't I read that Santa's lead raindeer hit a flying bone and had to make a crash landing...and caused a shortage of nintendo over the whole North East? Had kids searching their chimneys for it for weeks afterwards...those bones are a real hazard.

AJ...that ascention thing was just a ploy by the head asshole to stop the relic trade...as it was, they sold three Levittown's worth of wood as splinters off the true cross...and the fear was that they'd empty all the graveyards in an attempt to supply all the assholes with their own jesus fingerbone or a holy toe bone to carry on pilgramage.

So don't believe everything you hear...if you've never seen any flying bones...that's probably because bones aren't aironically designed to fly, and are too heavy to just float. Hell boy...they even sink in water...if that's not a convincing clue, then your pilot light has blown out.

Stefan

[AJ]

I find it very interesting how the Liberals on this board react to my opinions.
Sean Hannity has always complained that Liberals love to pretend to be all about free speech. But as soon as someone says something that contradicts their small minded opinions the Liberals always turn hostile. I guess he is proven right.

There were no flying bones. Jesus ascended to heaven in a divine way.
Heaven in not in the sky. I believe it could be in another dimension or something like that. We don't know everything about the universe

if Jesus could turn water into wine. If he could cure the sick then he can certainly take his body with him to heaven.
All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. He died for your sins

[stefan segal]

Hannity...the anointed one, and rush limbough...his prophet...I knew you were privy to other worldly intelligence. AJ

But take care "Put no false gods before thee"...blind thyself to to the slings and arrows of reason and experience...gird your loins against the filthy questionings of your filthy mind...ALL will be revealed to you in the good book...yea...though I walk through the shadow of butch...I will see no evil...thy vote and thy stupidity will protect thee from all cheney evil...and thee will walk in poverty and destitution for all the days of thy life.

AJ...you and your ilk will be the first and the loudest to whine about the ruination of our country and civil rights that you assholes enabled. You and your ilk are the most despicable class of cowards that can be labelled as a group...stand proud you jerkoff.

Stefan
Ps...poor taste, childish name-calling, profanities and heresy, were meant literally as read and designed by management to be such. No apologies.

[AJ]

Stefan its a shame you are so intolerant and hateful of people who have different beliefs then yourself. If you would just accept Jesus as your savior most of that would just disappear.

I would be happy to put you in contact with The pastor from my church for counseling.
http://home.earthlink.net/~trinityastoria/
visit the link and look around, We have a lot to offer new members.
I will send you a message thru this board

[stefan segal]

A new offer...does that mean half price?

AJ...I shouldn't bang on you so hard...as you know not what you do.

But not knowing...anything...is still not a licence to spread your sectarian brainwashed detritus on a site for politics.

If you want to debate church and state...and how the Constitution's wording stating clearly that it's practice is forbidden...but you don't understand that it means not putting congressmen in your pocket by forming sectarian voting blocks and using the lords' money to pay legal fees for your shills' lawyers...then lets talk about it.

But prostylizing for souls on this list is really not very christian of you...read: pushy and inappropriate.

When it comes to the good books...I prefer Hustler...as they show god's best creation...up close and personal. Give it a try...it will change your life...for the better.

Stefan

[AJ]

Stefan keep reading that trash and sooner or later you will end up like its owner Larry Flint. God and Community had their vengeance on Mr Flint (America's Pimp)

Is it me, or you pushing the sectarian brainwashed detritus?
I would welcome a debate on Church and state issues with you. In other words, Bring It On

[exarmyranger]

Stefan keep reading that trash and sooner or later you will end up like its owner Larry Flint. God and Community had their vengeance on Mr Flint (America's Pimp)

Is it me, or you pushing the sectarian brainwashed detritus?
I would welcome a debate on Church and state issues with you. In other words, Bring It On
Wow I thought shooting someone for practicing thier constitutional right of "Free Speech" was anything but an act of chistianity,"vengance is mine sayeth the Lord"and all that...Forgive us our trespasses;as we forgive those who trespass against us"...You can keep your forgiveness :talktothehand: and insert it up your self righteous,hypocritical,anal cavity...or in your ear if there was room left in your head, :p that is'nt completely full of shit...! As for myself,may I say in all honesty :readpaper: when Hustler,became available for purchase,I bought a copy,in order to read the political satire,and editorial opinion(s),however by the time I was halfway finished viewing the first Pictorial,all the blood rushed from my head,and into my reproductive apendage.Resulting in loss of conciousness.:taunt:

[stefan segal]

L A R R Y F L I N T IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF CITIZEN PATRIOT THAT EVER FOUGHT IN A SUIT AND TIE.

THAT YOU THINK IT'S RIGHTEOUS THAT SOME SNEAKING COWARD SHOT HIM AND MADE HIM A CRIPPLE...SHOWS THE KIND OF STUFF YOU'RE MADE OF

Stefan

[exarmyranger]

L A R R Y F L I N T IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF CITIZEN PATRIOT THAT EVER FOUGHT IN A SUIT AND TIE.

THAT YOU THINK IT'S RIGHTEOUS THAT SOME SNEAKING COWARD SHOT HIM AND MADE HIM A CRIPPLE...SHOWS THE KIND OF STUFF YOU'RE MADE OF

Stefan
HEAR,HEAR,Stefan That's a big 10-4 from me,and (I am sure) all my fellow Sinner(s)as well.:thumbsup:

[stefan segal]

Brother EX...he fought for first amendment rights for all americans...even those not yet born...although we sinners have his photo up next to JFK for personal reasons:)

Stefan

[Linkster]

Stefan keep reading that trash and sooner or later you will end up like its owner Larry Flint. God and Community had their vengeance on Mr Flint (America's Pimp)

First off its spelled Flynt - second - although I defend anyones right to their ability to speak freely, (and unfortunately there are a lot of people so far under the influence of the religious brainwashing that occurs within each sect of religion) I would say that is the most un-christian statement I have ever heard from someone who claims closeness with jesus and his teachings. I challenge you to prove your adherence to your beliefs and not only say you were wrong in that statement but if you were a real christian you would be praying for him

I happen to know the man and have the utmost respect for the man and his ideals - I once heard him speak at a party we had, where he defined the real free speech cause that he stood up for in the past - and he could bring tears to even the most hardened people I know.

If you'd like I can send you a copy of Hustler with his and Jenna Jamesons autographs on it

[exarmyranger]

I must have missed it,when did God take back his promise of "Free Will",also,If the Biblical stories/acounts of Jesus are all true.His reaction to Mr.Flint's magazine's content,and those who choose to view/read the contents.(Free Will)would be more in the line of "Let whoever among you that is free of sin;cast the first stone"...carry-on mi amiago. ex

[Tickler]

I am not religious, but historical evidence and its validity is always suspect, and subjective. It's not a science that can be proven without a doubt until we event time machines.
You run a few 1000 light years out, and take a look back with very good scopes/scanners.

I believe it could be in another dimension or something like that. We don't know everything about the universe
Reminded me of the RAMA series where the religiious astronaut had to have a meeting with the pope to get some explanations when they figured out we weren't alone.