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kres24GT
02-19-2007, 10:40 AM
A funny, yet sad, movie about what is going to happen to our country. Don't dismiss it as simple humor, it is a very possible future for us.

Basically the movie starts out with two couples, one smart, one stupid. The smart couple never gets around to having children while the stupid couple breeds uncontrollably.

Then the movie gets to the main part. An average Army solider (played by Luke Wilson) goes in to an experiment where he is frozen for 500 years. He wakes up to find America is 100% inhabited by morons and he is by far the smartest man in the country.


Thanks to government dependence rewarding people for having children who shouldn't, while punishing those who should, this is not far off from what will probably happen in this country.

In some ways we actually aren't far off now. The most popular TV show in 2505 is "Ow, My Balls", a show where one guy gets hit in his balls several different ways over and over again. Are we really far form that now? See: "Jackass".

stefan segal
02-19-2007, 01:48 PM
Kres...do you know who holds the copyright on "Ow...My Balls"?

I found the perfect nitch wasted by some NPR garbage no one ever looks at, where a brilliantly new reality show like Ow...my balls, would be a smashing success. Especially if we used scientists and educators as guest balls to smash!

Who wouldn't be glued to their TV to watch some Nobel Peace award winner writhe around on the floor making noises like a pig on the way to slaughter.

It's the wave of the future...make scads of money, buy us a couple of congressmen, then the sky is the limit...the presidency!

Stefan

Bill
02-19-2007, 03:17 PM
Stupid people having ten kids to every smart person's one kid is a big problem.

I'm probably skewing the ratio - it's probably closer to 30 or 50 to 1.

War is demography, and demography is war.

But stupid people know this - that's part of the reason they churn out the kids. It's the only way they have to get revenge on the smart.

Smart people have abortions and use birth control - but stupid people can't afford abortions or birth control. Or they don't use birth control out of the desire for revenge - and a passle of little slave laborers, too.

kres24GT
02-19-2007, 04:03 PM
Stupid people having ten kids to every smart person's one kid is a big problem.

I'm probably skewing the ratio - it's probably closer to 30 or 50 to 1.

War is demography, and demography is war.

But stupid people know this - that's part of the reason they churn out the kids. It's the only way they have to get revenge on the smart.

Smart people have abortions and use birth control - but stupid people can't afford abortions or birth control. Or they don't use birth control out of the desire for revenge - and a passle of little slave laborers, too.


So what are some possible solutions?

Bill
02-19-2007, 04:19 PM
The only solution we know works is "smartifying" the stupid - that is, education and oppurtunity to give the people we are calling stupid the same lifestyle as that enjoyed by the smart.

That, we know, reduces birthrates.

Punitive solutions, short of genocide, haven't worked in the past.

This is because we are using the term "stupid" mostly to describe the uneducated lower class laborers, who usually aren't functionally any stupider than the upper classes.

Rarely are we talking about people with actually lower mental capacities.

I suppose genocide is always an option - religious types seem to approve of it.

Another solution often suggested is the super-prison model. Instead of spending money on education we spend the same amount, or maybe twice as much, on prisons, then, since the stupid will always commit more crimes, being underclass and desperate, we end up with larger and larger percentages of breeding age people in the superprisons.

We're trying the super-prison experiment here in this country today.

You seem to have suggested shutting off all welfare and medical care will reduce birthrates - but this planet is stuffed with cultures with no money and no medical care, it doesn't seem to lower their birthrates, in fact it increases them.

kres24GT
02-19-2007, 05:11 PM
The only solution we know works is "smartifying" the stupid - that is, education and oppurtunity to give the people we are calling stupid the same lifestyle as that enjoyed by the smart.

That, we know, reduces birthrates.

Punitive solutions, short of genocide, haven't worked in the past.

This is because we are using the term "stupid" mostly to describe the uneducated lower class laborers, who usually aren't functionally any stupider than the upper classes.

Rarely are we talking about people with actually lower mental capacities.

I suppose genocide is always an option - religious types seem to approve of it.

Another solution often suggested is the super-prison model. Instead of spending money on education we spend the same amount, or maybe twice as much, on prisons, then, since the stupid will always commit more crimes, being underclass and desperate, we end up with larger and larger percentages of breeding age people in the superprisons.

We're trying the super-prison experiment here in this country today.

You seem to have suggested shutting off all welfare and medical care will reduce birthrates - but this planet is stuffed with cultures with no money and no medical care, it doesn't seem to lower their birthrates, in fact it increases them.


I don't know how much it will reduce them by, but it would reduce them. I have known too many women who have gotten pregnant simply for the extra government income it provides. I don't see how if you took that incentive away it would do anything but lower their birthrates.


I like your education scenario, however I don't see it happening. The only political acceptable answer to fixing public education is more money, and money isn't usually the problem.

Eventually something will have to be done.

Bill
02-19-2007, 05:44 PM
In the current US environment of chronic religious hysteria, it's hard to imagine an ethic of responsible breeding could emerge.

Every stupid baby represents political power to the christians. And the muslims. And pretty much every other politically powerful religion.

Religion and reproduction are inextricably mixed.

If this weren't true, we could make a strong effort to make cheap birth control universally available.

Sexism is also an issue - if it weren't, we would have a cheap technology for reversible vasectomies.

But babies are political power. That, I would say, is the most important reason that we're unlikely to come up with a solution for this problem.

Everybody seems to be waiting for the coming plagues and wars, and hoping they won't be one of the billions killed.

kres24GT
02-19-2007, 05:54 PM
In the current US environment of chronic religious hysteria, it's hard to imagine an ethic of responsible breeding could emerge.

Every stupid baby represents political power to the christians. And the muslims. And pretty much every other politically powerful religion.

Religion and reproduction are inextricably mixed.

If this weren't true, we could make a strong effort to make cheap birth control universally available.

Sexism is also an issue - if it weren't, we would have a cheap technology for reversible vasectomies.

But babies are political power. That, I would say, is the most important reason that we're unlikely to come up with a solution for this problem.

Everybody seems to be waiting for the coming plagues and wars, and hoping they won't be one of the billions killed.

I think you are trying to make it more sinister than it is. It's irresponsibility more than anything.

exarmyranger
02-19-2007, 09:37 PM
One statement(ty Bill)speaks loudly to me.If Mr.,and Ms.,J.Q.2car,1.7kids,2nd morgage,midlle class,Public... understood,or wanted to make the effort to be understood,while stating thier opinions,and/or solutions to whatever they see as a problem/threat...in order to lift the curtain of ignorance,and restore understanding to the light.But secure in the belief "Those"people are too stupid to understand.Or reason with,so why bother...People (the majority,of mid.,to upper class)who like to say things like,"I worked my way up the ladder" do'nt,or can't understand,(that alot of americans do'nt have a ladder to climb)were they so inclined.In my life I've known poor men,rich men,common laborers,C.E.O.'s,blue collar,white collar,soldiers,and statesmen.None of the successful/wealthy could say with any honesty they are,self-made men...Unless adding "I built my fortune myself (with the $250,000.00 Dad left me).Stupidity is the refusal or the inablility to learn...ignorence is the lack of knowledge. If you hit yourself in the cajones(because you did'nt know it would hurt) with a hammer once,and it hurt.(Alot)you were(past tence)ignorant...Now that you know it hurts(Alot)if you repeat the action,you are stupid.exwo

Linkster
02-20-2007, 07:30 AM
NSSM 200 written in the 1970s by a group headed by Henry Kisinger addressed this very problem
Here is a good short review of it and its benefits and problems:
http://www.population-security.org/mumf-93-01.htm

kres24GT
02-20-2007, 10:05 AM
One statement(ty Bill)speaks loudly to me.If Mr.,and Ms.,J.Q.2car,1.7kids,2nd morgage,midlle class,Public... understood,or wanted to make the effort to be understood,while stating thier opinions,and/or solutions to whatever they see as a problem/threat...in order to lift the curtain of ignorance,and restore understanding to the light.But secure in the belief "Those"people are too stupid to understand.Or reason with,so why bother...People (the majority,of mid.,to upper class)who like to say things like,"I worked my way up the ladder" do'nt,or can't understand,(that alot of americans do'nt have a ladder to climb)were they so inclined.In my life I've known poor men,rich men,common laborers,C.E.O.'s,blue collar,white collar,soldiers,and statesmen.None of the successful/wealthy could say with any honesty they are,self-made men...Unless adding "I built my fortune myself (with the $250,000.00 Dad left me).Stupidity is the refusal or the inablility to learn...ignorence is the lack of knowledge. If you hit yourself in the cajones(because you did'nt know it would hurt) with a hammer once,and it hurt.(Alot)you were(past tence)ignorant...Now that you know it hurts(Alot)if you repeat the action,you are stupid.exwo


We don't all start at the same level... oh well, that's life. However people work their way out of poverty to live middle and upper class lives all the time. With hard work, good decisions, and determination, anyone in this country can do it. (For now anyway, this is quickly becoming harder and harder)

Read the book "The Pursuit of Happyness", then write that guy and tell him that it's all about how much you start with that matters.

exarmyranger
02-20-2007, 09:29 PM
Opertunity's exist for anyone who wishes to take advantage of them.I wo'nt argue with that.Vocational,Technical schools,on the job training,grants,ect.I have (out of curiosity)requested and recieved,application's/requirement's for several privately funded,and goverment,educational grants,and loans.The forms you must complete in order to apply for these moneys,are complicated in thier wording of questions,and redundant as well.My acadimic history is minimal,though I am/was an avid reader...The form's were frusterating to me.I imagine I am not alone in that...ex :banghead:

Bill
02-20-2007, 10:37 PM
Read the book "The Pursuit of Happyness", then write that guy and tell him that it's all about how much you start with that matters.

Arguing from single and extreme cases is a weak form of rhetoric -it's one of the logical fallacies, but for the life of me I can't remember which one it is at the moment.

But by the same logic, everyone should be a millionaire. Yet, in the world of actuality, this doesn't happen.

Your position seems to be a moral position, and we get it, you don't like them lazy shiftless bums.

As far as I can tell, your issue isn't even on the political table at the moment. People seem to be satisfied that clinton put the kibosh on welfare queens, some kind of universal health insurance seems like a real possibility, and there's not a single politician anywhere who seems to be talking about cutting off the social security and the medicare for our constantly growing population of old folks.

I'd rather be putting my self-employment tax into a private retirement account, but that means old people living in boxes behind the walmarts, so I don't think it's likely to occur anytime soon.

Bill
02-20-2007, 10:41 PM
And the real problem isn't here in this country - as Linkster's article pointed out, tho a bit obscurely, it's on the planetary level that we have the biggest problem.

Tell the Palestinians or the Lebonese shia, who are breeding like mad, averageing a dozen kids per woman, to read the "Pursuit of Happyness" and see how far that gets ya.

kres24GT
02-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Arguing from single and extreme cases is a weak form of rhetoric -it's one of the logical fallacies, but for the life of me I can't remember which one it is at the moment.

But by the same logic, everyone should be a millionaire. Yet, in the world of actuality, this doesn't happen.

Your position seems to be a moral position, and we get it, you don't like them lazy shiftless bums.

As far as I can tell, your issue isn't even on the political table at the moment. People seem to be satisfied that clinton put the kibosh on welfare queens, some kind of universal health insurance seems like a real possibility, and there's not a single politician anywhere who seems to be talking about cutting off the social security and the medicare for our constantly growing population of old folks.

I'd rather be putting my self-employment tax into a private retirement account, but that means old people living in boxes behind the walmarts, so I don't think it's likely to occur anytime soon.


Anyone can be rich in this country, although it is harder for some than others. This proven time and time again. However, the big government parties are doing their best to make this not the case.

I used to be self employed, but the SE tax made it not even worthwhile. Yet more proof the Reps/Dems are united in making us ever more dependent on government and squashing entrepreneurship in favor of big business.

kres24GT
02-21-2007, 10:36 AM
And the real problem isn't here in this country - as Linkster's article pointed out, tho a bit obscurely, it's on the planetary level that we have the biggest problem.

Tell the Palestinians or the Lebonese shia, who are breeding like mad, averageing a dozen kids per woman, to read the "Pursuit of Happyness" and see how far that gets ya.


I think it's pretty obvious I am talking about in the US. That is a whole other problem.

stefan segal
02-22-2007, 02:43 PM
FlASH....Kres...update:

THE US IS INCLUDED IN THIS PLANET!!!

Stefan

kres24GT
02-22-2007, 02:51 PM
FlASH....Kres...update:

THE US IS INCLUDED IN THIS PLANET!!!

Stefan


What is your point?