The Irony of the Shoulder Launched Missiles

[Bill]

When the russians invaded afghanistan, the US gave the mujahideen shoulder launched Stingers to knock down russian helicopter gunships.

Now that we've invaded iraq, someone is giving the mujahideen russian shoulder launched missles to knock down american helicopters.

We know they have SA7s...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7

And we are afraid they now have these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-16

Insurgents had warned of 'surprise'
In December, a spokesman for Saddam Hussein's ousted Baath party, Khudair al-Murshidi, told The Associated Press in Damascus, Syria, that Sunni insurgents had received shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles and "we are going to surprise them," meaning U.S. forces.

Al-Murshidi did not say when or how the missiles were obtained.

Insurgents have used SA-7s, a shoulder-fired missile with an infrared homing device, against U.S. and British aircraft since 2003.

In an Internet statement, the al-Qaeda-affiliated Islamic State of Iraq claimed responsibility for the latest crash -- an Apache Longbow helicopter that went down Friday north of Baghdad, killing two crew members. (Full story)

"We tell the enemies of God that the airspace of the Islamic State in Iraq is prohibited to your aircraft just like its lands are," the statement said. "God has granted new ways for the soldiers of the State of Iraq to confront your aircraft."

It was unclear whether the "new ways" referred to new and advanced anti-aircraft weapons -- such as SA-18 missiles -- or was simply a boast.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/04/iraq.helicopter.ap/index.html

[exarmyranger]

Yo Bill,whether a boast,or a fact,it was a stupid thing to say...Never let your enemy know your capabilitys,bluff's only work in the movies.Understate your weaponry/ordinence,both in quanity,and functionability,if making reference at all.:cool:,"This robbery in progress" we are currently engaged in,is beggining to invoke an emotional responce in myself...Namely anger boardering rage;to disgust boardering on hate...now if I could figure out who is pissing me off the most(The Commander in Chief)or our oposition.:disbelief:

[Bill]

Boast or not, they killed four choppers in a week.

Don't sound to me like they revealed anything that we could use, especially considering those statements were made in december.

I figure that baathist was just trying to improve the morale of his decentralized and celled fighters - I'm sure al jazeera picked up and broadcast that baathist claim immediately, while we only heard about it in our media after about 8 million in choppers and far more difficult to replace pilots and crew were shot out of the sky.

Now, we wait and see if they have a real supply of missles. If they do, then they'll pick areas in which they can deny us air, and build more conventional attack forces there.

If that was all the missles they got, it will still force us to fly more cautiously.

Thats a win for them as well.

[Bill]

They just shot down another chopper - 7 killed.

The General below says it's "small arms", not missiles.

Since it's highly unlikely that ordinary rifles could take down 5 choppers, especially the small and fast armored choppers, I guess he's saying they are using heavy machine guns to knock them down.

I'm not sure which is more disturbing - that the guerillas have russian SA missles, or that they've learned to use heavies to knock down choppers.

And get away with it, because I haven't heard reports that chopper killer teams have been wiped out.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/07/iraq.main/index.html

Sen. Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, asked Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, if the helicopter attacks mean "that enemy forces have achieved some higher level of capability with shoulder-fired missiles."

Pace responded that it was his understanding the choppers were shot down with small arms, not missiles.

He said each incident is investigated.

"At this point and time, I do not know whether or not it is the law of averages that caught up with us or if there's been a change in tactics, techniques and procedures on the part of the enemy, which is what the investigation will do," Pace said.

[exarmyranger]

I'm not sure which is more disturbing - that the guerillas have russian SA missles, or that they've learned to use heavies to knock down choppers.



Sen. Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, asked Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, if the helicopter attacks mean "that enemy forces have achieved some higher level of capability with shoulder-fired missiles."

I do not know whether or not it is the law of averages that caught up with us or if there's been a change in tactics, techniques and procedures on the part of the enemy, which is what the investigation will do," Pace said.[/QUOTE]I was just thinking about the max.%'s of hit vrs. miss. (at moving/long to mid. range target)for S.F.M.without infra red h.d'.s (sa-7's)! The project of choice (in weapons development's and modification's)is the reduction,or (don't ask me how:dunno: )elimination,of recoil.Which would make s.f.m.'s far more acurate.Maybe they got hold of some prototypes...ex