Why is 'Spread the Wealth' so abhored?

[disrupter]

I am not finding any easy, good rationales why so many people seem to think 'spreading the wealth' is such a horror when it means giving poor people a break.

When a store keeper in a boom town charges high or even outrageous prices no one objects because he is helping spread the wealth to himself.

When military contractors are gouging & flat out ripping off the US government no one seems to utter a word. Even when they use slave labor to build the world's largest embassy in Baghdad.

When corporations of every type & size are massaging congress & the whitehouse for fat contracts where they never accomplish what they promise, no one complains that they are 'spreading the wealth' from the taxpayers & their grand children to crooked corporations.

I think the reason this idea receives such outrage when it is of benefit to the poor is because of their availability & [subjectively perceived] visibility.

With contractors in Iraq we don't see the gross fraud, right in our face. It is half a world away. We also know there is violence & confusion there so we can rationalize a lot of it out of our minds. The poor on the other hand live within ready driving distance.

When corporations get wealth distributed from US taxdollars, we never see it first hand, & if the corporations can manage it at all we NEVER hear about it.

I guess part of the reason(s) is that poor people are people just like or at least similar enough to us. If they get it, we will see it, or at least we have programmed ourselves with that belief.
We readily rationalize, 'if they are getting it, why shouldn't we?'
Whereas we see corporations as lofty, distant with bland granite/marble facades. We don't see their dirty details up close & personal.

What we do see is the IRS & their taxforms every April 15th. It serves as a misdirection of our questions & frustrations.

What we don't see is how America's grandchildren & the unborn are being robbed with deficits. So we don't ask 'Where the hell are these Trillions of dollars going anyway?'

I suppose in the US we rationalize that opportunity abounds & that anyone with the initiative/fortitude will grab hold, get a job & climb their way from poverty. There is some truth & yet a lot of illusion to this idea.
So we can easily rationalize that poor people are somehow 'less' deserving. We neglect the wealth & advantages to which many are born & how that often arms them for success. We forget that dumb luck plays a huge role in our lives as well as the history of the Universe.

I guess the idea of spreading the wealth treats wealth as a static notion.
This is of course fallacious.
The psychology of 'giving something to the poor' means it just can't be as good. It loses some [much?] of its cachet of mystique. it is made mundane.

We see the poor as mundane & usually contemptible. We the rich as transcendent. <barf>

Valuations of things both personal & in recorded market places are the results of subjective thinking. There may be rational back ups why we value something, but that easily collapses as soon as those notions are outmoded by a technology innovation.

I am not even sure i am in favor of lending some benefit to poor[er] people, but the fact that vastly greater quantities of 're-distribution of wealth' go on all the time & invariably in the direction of from poor & working people to well connected people & corporations
makes me outraged at other people's stupid outrage.

It also makes me wonder if we do have some sort of dislike for poor people or perhaps more accurately with the people who are, become &/or remain poor.
We pin our aspirations upon the glittering facades of those who create grand displays.
Perhaps poor people have some abrasive characteristics? They are not deft sociopaths. They are less keen manipulators of other people.

The rich tend to be surreal.
The poor tend to be real.

I think it is easily arguable that poor people are better.
While the rich undeniably depend on the poor & working people,
the poor & working suffer no such dependency.
The rich are the artifacts of culture that get left behind in history, the poor are, however, eternal.
Although the psychological degradation & contempt with which we arbitrarily treat lower income people may serve to rob them of their spirit.

People who 'succeed' in our largely corporate world have the attributes of sociopaths & most of them are.
A poor person can work every day of their lives for unending hours & they remain completely invisible. And when they are not invisible is when they are likely up for humiliating reprimands or used as the butt of jokes.
While someone who has good social skills, graces & most important connections is credited with all the patronage of 'what a hard worker' they are.

The poor are perhaps [more] vulnerable to psychological derision.
Sometimes this is simply because they don't & can't keep up with our shallow ever fashion chasing culture. Fashion more than clothing, but in modes of thinking, activities that are currently chic, doing the things that make them attractive, admired.

It is easy to work harder when you are constantly greeted with pats on the back & verbal, explicit kudos.

The rich are supported & praised with a bunch of intellectual garbage,
& the poor & working are denigrated by that very same intellectual garbage.

While i am neither in favor of nor against spreading the wealth to the poor & working from the rich for a change,

I will not sit by idly & listen to intellectual crap that just mindlessly panders to the status quo.

If you have a rational, intellectually clean case to make, then by all means make it.
But thus far all i see is a bunch of intellectual stupid crap.

Doing things or responding without thought or reason is a reflex, something we should keep confined to Pavlov's dogs.

I have heard the barking for the rich,
is there something else of actual substance to hear?
something i have missed?
Something with structural soundness that can be coolly articulated rather than yelled or stated without seething resentment?

[hdmarketing]

Because you fucking nit wit, it involves taking hard earned money from hard working people and gives it to other people.

Let me ask you this, even though I know you are a street bumb, lets play pretend ok.

Lets say you owned a Real Estate Company that was doing pretty well.
Lets say you busted your ass for the last 20 years to make this business successful.

Now lets say that along comes Obama, and he wanted to just take a portion of your profits and just give it away to people you don't even know.

Now if you had rational thinking, this would piss you off to no end.

Just the thought of that bastard wanting to punish me because I am successful just makes me shutter with anger.

Now I know you just love this because YOU are going to be on the receiving end and not the giving end.

:mad:

[Hog Trash]

Have we learned to tolerate a thieving government, or do we now rationalize that it's not stealing when the government does it?

Rationalize all you want....Stealing is not only wrong, but it's a crime, no matter who does it or for what reason they do it.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig....Ain't that what our good friend Obama tells us? You can't have it both ways.

[disrupter]

hdmarketing,
the government takes your hard earned money, including money from hard working poor people & gives it to people at KBR, Halibuton, Bechtel, Blackwater etc.

WTF do you not have a problem with that?

that is exactly the same kind of government forced, at the point of a gun, re-distribution of wealth.

your offense at re-distribution is VERY, VERY, VERY slenderly directed.
it happens all the time, but you only object when it goes to hard working poor people rather than lazy war profiteers.

You are wildly hypocritical.

You don't object to wealth redistribution, not when it goes from the poor & working to the rich, not when it goes to secretive banal corporations,

only when it goes to actual American people do you get all crazy about it.

You haven't raised a sound intellectual point why poor people are so terrible they can't possibly get what you are already giving to corporations.

Your objections are intellectually bankrupt.

but then, what else is new.

[SeanA]

hd, I do own a real estate company and have over 120 agents working for me. I also have 3 salaried employees.

I unfortunately do not make 250K plus a year, so I would most likely get a tax benefit from Obama's plan. In addition, Obama's plan would make it easier for me to provide health care for my employees, which right now is quite difficult. Not to mention that my agents, who are considered independent contractors could get their own health care plans with descent coverage at a descent cost.

Unlike you, I am not some elitist a-hole who thinks that just because they built a business they are somehow better than the 9-5 guy who has been busting his ass every day to provide for his family.

There have been times that I have made over 250K a year. And if I did, I would have no problem paying a little more in taxes. Besides, most business owners actually pay taxes on a lot less income than what they actually take home if they have a savvy accountant.

Bottom line is that all taxes are wealth redistribution. One problem with our economy is that wealth has been redistributed to a few people, with the idea that it will 'trickle down'. It hasn't worked in practice.

If regular working class people and even people who are currently below the poverty line have more money, than there will be more demand for the type of products and services which small businesses produce. This is good for everybody. It's not a handout. Most people at the lower and middle end of the wage scale work hard for their money and deserve some tax relief.

[Mr. Blue]

I really don't think "redistribution of wealth" is the problem though as it's more about giving more money to Washington and how ineffectual they'll be with that money. I think many people, including myself, don't trust the government to solve problems, they most likely will just create more problems.

Are there any government agencies that run efficiently? Look at Medicare fraud. Off the top of my head I believe it's 30 or so billion a year in medicare fraud...remove that fraud from the system and you're halfway there to paying for Obama's healthcare plan without taxing anyone. See, if we have that type of fraud in medicare, what type of fraud will we have if we expand our healthcare system?

Throwing money on a problem is not the solution. So, before the government asks for more money from ANYONE, they should prove that they can run things efficiently, and effectively with the money they already have.

[disrupter]

It isn't that it is being redistributed, which is innate to capitalism,

It is partially that it is government imposed,
but again people are silent when it is forcibly redistributed to corporate parasites,

it is who it is being redistributed to that people object to.

Corporations seem invisible. Other people are not.

We need to wake up & see all the corporations & their armatures embedded in our midsts.
From the electric outlets, to all the products we surround ourselves with & the psycho-social brainwashing we constantly get from advertising,
including the more subtle forms of non-explicit advertising from attitudes & product use by people we observe on TV.
btw some news programs have even been guilty of presenting paid promotion segments that weren't even identified as such.

People are not your enemy,
corporations are.

[Mr. Blue]

I agree with that to a point, however, there's a bigger systemic problem and that's the government itself.

I live in New York, I go into the city a lot, and the advice people give you about the homeless people are the following: Don't give them money, they'll just end up buying booze, drugs, etc. Give the money instead to a charity that will help them or buy them something like food, clothing, etc.

To me the Government is that homeless person now. You give them money and what do they do with it? Do they spend the money on the pressing problems or do they buy crack with it? (crack being the metaphor for anything wasteful and bad).

No matter what taxes get placed, no matter how we try to reassign money, no matter how we inject "fairness" into the system. We first have to fix the problem that the government is that homeless person that doesn't know how to spend tax dollars.

Let's say we increased taxes on the wealthy, the upper middle class, hell even the middle class. What would the government do with that money? They would just create an ineffective, inefficient, government bureaucracy, that throws money on problems and does it really work? No.

I have no problem with higher taxes as long as I see that money actually making a difference. At the moment though I see the government as that homeless person...they just don't know how to spend money effectively.

[Sharon]

http://newsok.com/spreading-the-wealth-incites-class-warfare/article/3315903

Spread the wealth encourages lazy asses to not work! IE. Disrupter does not want to have to get off the couch! That's why obama is the candidate of choice. While WE hard working American's WORK for the $ the well fare recipients rub their little hands together, have more babies, drink more beer and live off of US! We have dignity, we can hold our heads high for our earnings. We should have the FREEDOM to choose charities to share our wealth with, we should not be forced to give to ingrates. Genuinely disabled people are the only exception of this rule. But just the lazy, sucker fish shouldn't benefit from our BUCKS! obama wants to take our freedom away! If some stupid enough to elect him I guess they deserve the miserable outcome!

[Bill]

They love it in alaska. Seems to work great.

Every alaskan gets a big check every year as their cut of the oil levies.

I wonder why I don't get a check for all the coal electricity generated in my state and sold to the neighboring states.

I have to inhale the mercury and radiactives put out by the smokestacks - but I don't get a check.

Fuck, my electricity bill is going up too.

[disrupter]

Sharon,

but it is ok when Haliburton, Bechtel & Blackwater all get monstrous checks for Katrina cleanup where they barely do a damn thing?

So Hundred Billion dollar couch sitting corporations are OK sitting in their multi-million dollar mansions & when they bankrupt the USA,

You don't mind forking over your money to them,

But a fairer tax system is not.

At least you are predictable.

[doctordog]

Sharon,

but it is ok when Haliburton, Bechtel & Blackwater all get monstrous checks for Katrina cleanup where they barely do a damn thing?

So Hundred Billion dollar couch sitting corporations are OK sitting in their multi-million dollar mansions & when they bankrupt the USA,

You don't mind forking over your money to them,

But a fairer tax system is not.

At least you are predictable.

Nothing is fair when comes to taking from the working class and giving to the non working class especially when some of them choose not to work.

And yes, I would rather give my tax dollars for government sponsored clean ups as Bectel, Haliburton, and others are provide good paying jobs to people that want to work. "Spread the Wealth" rewards people for doing nothing.

[disrupter]

Most of the money spent on Haliburton & Bechtel is wasted on nothing.

They are leeches.

why do you support leeches?

[cajunsnake]

Nothing is fair when comes to taking from the working class and giving to the non working class especially when some of them choose not to work.

And yes, I would rather give my tax dollars for government sponsored clean ups as Bectel, Haliburton, and others are provide good paying jobs to people that want to work. "Spread the Wealth" rewards people for doing nothing.


My problem is...I don't see any difference between the person who doesn't want to work, and a Corp. like A.I.G. ($7 Trillion dollars in assets) standing there with their hands out. Welfare is welfare.

As far as Haliburton, whether it be for clean up on the Gulf coast(which still hasn't been completed), or their "no-bid" contracts in Iraq...they have managed to milk the Government for millions of dollars(if not Billions). Even their contract to rebuild schools and hospitals is not completed. Of course when was the last time you tried to rebuild a country, that's in the middle of a war?

Spreading the wealth is something I won't worry about. Those that control it will continue to get their share of the pie, we on the other hand will continue to argue whether it's good or bad.



SNAKE

[hdmarketing]

hd, I do own a real estate company and have over 120 agents working for me. I also have 3 salaried employees.

I unfortunately do not make 250K plus a year, so I would most likely get a tax benefit from Obama's plan. In addition, Obama's plan would make it easier for me to provide health care for my employees, which right now is quite difficult. Not to mention that my agents, who are considered independent contractors could get their own health care plans with descent coverage at a descent cost.

Unlike you, I am not some elitist a-hole who thinks that just because they built a business they are somehow better than the 9-5 guy who has been busting his ass every day to provide for his family.

I never said I was better than anyone else, why don't you show me where I said that.
If you make the claim, then back it up.

There have been times that I have made over 250K a year. And if I did, I would have no problem paying a little more in taxes. Besides, most business owners actually pay taxes on a lot less income than what they actually take home if they have a savvy accountant.

I do make over 250 a Year, and trust me, I pay for it in taxes, but I do have a problem with Obama playing robin Hood with my hard earned money.

[doctordog]

Most of the money spent on Haliburton & Bechtel is wasted on nothing.

They are leeches.

why do you support leeches?

Obama is a leech, I don't support him

[disrupter]

hdmarketing if corporations would pay their fair share for a change [as they used to do in the American historical past] it might not be necessary to raise your taxes.

Stopping corporate welfare benefits people, even affluent people.

wayers57, you & the Republicans are Corporate Welfare Leeches,
I don't support you or your river of lies & criminality.

[Moby]

I do make over 250 a Year, and trust me, I pay for it in taxes, but I do have a problem with Obama playing robin Hood with my hard earned money.
You need a better accountant as most of what you pay should be covered under capital gains so the percentage that you pay should be far less then those earning a salary and working for companies.