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View Full Version : The Cost of Services and Benifits


stefan segal
01-24-2007, 03:59 PM
Kres made a powerful observation in another thread, that I feel deserves exposure and underlining on its own behest, and that is:

We have chosen to entrust our lives to government and have voted most of our personal freedoms over to them ,as such they have every right to tell us what we can and cannot do

The reservation Indians found out to their great loss what it means and meant to turn their personal responsibility over to the government...that of jump hoops and kiss ass while being serviced so poorly as to be criminal...and no recourse for remedy.

Single mothers must do hoop jumping with social services...especially with the repug control of policies (yes I remember the election...the repugs have had 6 years to spread their disease throughout the whole of government.,..it may take an equal number to right their wrongs), but have no other options.

The government cannot open their veins to allow tax dollars to run freely on the kitchen floor, so there must be levels of screening...and attempting to make it less dehumanizing, is a matter of degrees of relativity...in whch neither side are happy at the same instant of events.

I recall an effort called the "the voter's bill of rights"...it was, if memory serves, a gingrich (the most dangerous mind in DC) thing, and I didn't bother to look into it, but the concept of a threshold of indignities concerning services government rendered, I believe might be a positive direction for satisfying the existing problem .That of:

Rendering the will of the people, in terms of tax dollars and services, to those the people deemed in need.

The police force is one such service with checks and balances....and though imperfectly served, we don't, on the other hand, live beside or in the OK corral...no all of us need to be armed when strolling down main street.

In the best of all worlds, all the policemen of a precinct would be required to have their abode in that sector. But as it stands, those policed are not without options...they have not all been lost to enjoy the public service.

On a similar note of loosing oversight when relinquishing one's responsibilities to a service, I see no difference when the administration hands away their responsibility to...say controlling our ports...especially so, when giving it to the other side (in terms of butch's holy 'ism' war)

When I was a kid in the building trades, I strove to tackle those jobs I've never done before. I would say I knew it all, to assume responsibility, so I would be at the design/command...even if I was only commanding myself.

I considered free education...and when I fucked up...I would gather my tools and say "fire me"...then melt off into the sunset. (Some kids are arrogant pricks...)

If a government contractor of ports allowed or engineered a small army of sappers each to simultanously invade all the larger port cities...he could also flip it off with: "so fire me"...but the damage would be alredy done before anyone had a clue that two or three containers housed sappers with ATV's loaded with plastic or plastic and DU dust, just loaded into containers ten miles off the port docks, and offloaded into the heart of downtown by truck.

If they were fancy and well financed, they could also morter off multiple EMP explosives to blow in the air and wipe out communications...great for a get-away, and devistating for a country already in abject shock....so fire me :)

Stefan

kres24GT
01-24-2007, 04:35 PM
Why do we make sure our children eat right, that they get exercise, that they don't do anything dangerous? Yes, because we love them, but also because we are responsible for them. What gives you the right to tell your child what he can eat, or when he should go to bed? The fact that you are legally, ethically, morally, and even biologically responsible for that child. While government may not be biologically responsible for us, we as a country have decided, save a few freedom lovers, that we want government to be responsible for us. We want government to provide us with certain needs (health care, retirement, natural disaster relief, food, and even money). When in need the first instinct of the average American is to look to government for help, and the Republicans and Democrats are more than happy to use tax dollars to help them, and of course buy a few votes in the process. The sentiment that government is responsible for us is not only increasing in this country exponentially, its becoming socially unacceptable to think otherwise. As a country who demands this, we cannot demand government rob all citizens of their freedom to care for us, then turn around and spout off all day about being able to do what we want. The more responsible government is for us, the more choices and freedoms they should take away, they have this right just as a parent or guardian has for their dependents. If government has to pick up the tab if I have a heart attack, should they not be able to tell em what I can eat? Of course they should be able to. If government is responsible for rebuilding my house if it gets washed away, should they not be able to tell me where I can live? Of course they should. We as a nation decided that we do not care to be free, we prefer safety (notice the numbers of time President Bush mentioned safety vs. freedom last night). We have decided it is worth sacrificing freedom to be dependent on government. For people to come on a message board and whine about freedom is beyond ridiculous, hardly any of them care to be anything remotely resembling free. We are Americans, we hate freedom, we despise it and the responsibility that comes with it.

stefan segal
01-24-2007, 07:32 PM
Kres...the senerio your are endlessly pushing, has gaping holes in it ...so humungous that it will never get off the ground.

In the first place, those motivated by money are already rich and not counted in our discussion. whereas those motivated by need, won't need anything under your scenero, therefore will be berift of motive to work...and therefore will owe no taxes.

The second place, is obviously the government controlling everything, but having no tax dollars which equals no money to pay for any programs...much less all the programs you feel we should have.

So go back to the drawing board and come up with some sort of gulog plan that uses forced labor to undercut the sweatshops of Taiwan...or some such.

Another avenue would be that butch should pattern our brand of "democracy". not after the nazi model, but after Ghengus Khan...we could all be issued drug confiscated motorcycles and saturday night specials...a few tabs of ectasy, then raid border towns in Mexico and 'Canada...rob and pillage rape and also steal medicine to sell to the old folks who tend to hide their cash money away....its all good...we can build an empire with it...

but use your own thoughts...and make them a viable balance if you want to be taken seriously.

Stefan

exarmyranger
01-25-2007, 02:13 AM
Sounds fine Stefan,except old people have the drugs so you steal theirs and sell them to their grandkids.ex

kres24GT
01-25-2007, 11:49 AM
Kres...the senerio your are endlessly pushing, has gaping holes in it ...so humungous that it will never get off the ground.

In the first place, those motivated by money are already rich and not counted in our discussion. whereas those motivated by need, won't need anything under your scenero, therefore will be berift of motive to work...and therefore will owe no taxes.

The second place, is obviously the government controlling everything, but having no tax dollars which equals no money to pay for any programs...much less all the programs you feel we should have.

So go back to the drawing board and come up with some sort of gulog plan that uses forced labor to undercut the sweatshops of Taiwan...or some such.

Another avenue would be that butch should pattern our brand of "democracy". not after the nazi model, but after Ghengus Khan...we could all be issued drug confiscated motorcycles and saturday night specials...a few tabs of ectasy, then raid border towns in Mexico and 'Canada...rob and pillage rape and also steal medicine to sell to the old folks who tend to hide their cash money away....its all good...we can build an empire with it...

but use your own thoughts...and make them a viable balance if you want to be taken seriously.

Stefan


This has nothing to do with what I said. As Americans we want government to be responsible for us, we choose not to be free in exchange for government dependence. As such government, who is now ultimately responsible for our well-being, health, happiness, etc., has a right to tell us how to live our lives, It's what we want.