Big Crash Tomorrow

[asroc]

In the past 90 minutes, American International Group (i.e.: A.I.G. Insurance) is calling for an immediate, emergency $40-billion bailout from the U.S. Government. In lieu of that, it's now announcing a fire sale of some of its most important assets. Bye, bye A.I.G.

Washington Mutual, the nation's largest Savings and Loan, is expected to follow suit, and will go into some form of receivership or bankruptcy, probably before the week's out. Bye, bye Washington Mutual.

Did you guys enjoy the Ownership Society?

[SeedyROM]

Lol, whose gonna bail out the USA. Lehman Brothers in on the way out. They say the airlines and the big 3 automakers are discussing billions in loans too. I tmight be time to relocate my money to a safe haven or buy gold.

AIG is run by crooks who've been flying by the seat of thier pants since the NYSE scandal involving former Chairman Dick Grasso. Sell the bankrupt junk on the courthouse steps. Somebody elsecan turn AIG around.

[SeniorChief]

In the past 90 minutes, American International Group (i.e.: A.I.G. Insurance) is calling for an immediate, emergency $40-billion bailout from the U.S. Government. In lieu of that, it's now announcing a fire sale of some of its most important assets. Bye, bye A.I.G.

Washington Mutual, the nation's largest Savings and Loan, is expected to follow suit, and will go into some form of receivership or bankruptcy, probably before the week's out. Bye, bye Washington Mutual.

Did you guys enjoy the Ownership Society?

Bank's failing makes you happy?

Sick....

You probably enjoyed Pearl Harbor, huh?

[asroc]

Bank's failing makes you happy?

Sick....

You probably enjoyed Pearl Harbor, huh?

Why would you think I enjoy this, it's pissing me off. Please, just shut the fuck up if you can't say anything real.

This is all because they deregulated how mortgage loans work in like 2000.

[SeniorChief]

This is all because they deregulated how mortgage loans work in like 2000.

Still awaiting the big crash that you assert is going to happen, that isn't going to happen today, asshole.

Mark my words - you'll be eating this prediction, just like you're soon to be eating the Sarah Palin prediction.

[asroc]

Uh, have you taken a look at the world markets today SenioChief.

It's not exactly morning in American right now. This is going to be a rough week.

[SeniorChief]

Uh, have you taken a look at the world markets today SenioChief.



Uh, yes I have.

Funny - it doesn't match the title of your thread. Keep hoping though... keep hoping...

[asroc]

Uh, yes I have.

Funny - it doesn't match the title of your thread. Keep hoping though... keep hoping...

http://news.google.com/news?q=world%20markets

Sigh.

[SeniorChief]

Markets might/will/are plummeting my friend - actually, there's some rebound at this hour.

B of A also just bought Merril Lynch.

Lots of activity.

Big crash? Hardly.....

But, keep trolling. I'm sure there are some idiots onboard who will by your tinfoil hat fearmongering.

[asroc]

You think BOA buying Merrill Lynch is a good thing?

How completely clueless.

[SeniorChief]

You think BOA buying Merrill Lynch is a good thing?

How completely clueless.

Ah - yes I do.

Clueless.

[SeniorChief]

How completely clueless.

Maybe this will help -

http://www.bankinvestmentconsultant.com/asset/article/699191/bank-america-buys-merrill-lynch.html?pg=

[asroc]

I don't understand how an article explaining the buyout, which I already knew about, is supposed to make anybody feel better.

With the Bank of America (BAC) deal, Merrill CEO John Thain's employment contract change of control clause will be triggered, giving him $25 million in total compensation when he leaves Merrill after 10 months on the job. "That's impressive enough, but it's doubly so when you consider he got packaged out of the NYSE with just shy of $20-million not quite a year ago," Kedrosky quips. "Apparently Thain has turned executive exits into a business model."

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/sep2008/pi20080915_773170_page_2.htm

Well, it's nice to see somebody get a parachute, huh?

[SeniorChief]

I don't understand....

You've nailed it right there friend.

[asroc]

Refrain from quoting me unless you're going to quote me entirely, as you clearly don't know how to see anything in context.

[SeniorChief]

Refrain from dabbling in economics.

[asroc]

Turmoil in financial sector pummels stock market

Share prices dive as investors flee to Treasury bonds, but panic selling is limited.

By Tom Petruno and and Martin Zimmerman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
11:34 AM PDT, September 15, 2008

Stocks plunged and investors rushed for the safety of Treasury bonds today, amid a dramatically altered financial landscape that raised new fears about the struggling economy.

Share prices bounced from their worst levels of the morning, then headed lower again.

The Dow Jones industrial average was off 326.41 points, or 2.9%, to 11,095.58 shortly before 11 a.m. PDT. The blue-chip index had been down as much as 344 points earlier.

Some traders said that although losses were broad-based, panic selling was confined to a relative few bank, brokerage and insurance stocks.

"Volume is very orderly outside of a handful of issues," said Dan McMahon, a veteran trader at Raymond James & Associates in New York.

Still, he said, the bankruptcy of investment bank Lehman Bros. Holdings Inc., Merrill Lynch & Co.'s surprise sale to Bank of America Corp. and fear that insurance giant American International Group could be mortally wounded all left many Wall Street players in shock -- and looking for places to hide.

"People are still wanting to take a lot of risk off the table," McMahon said.

That was evident in the huge appetite for Treasury bonds today, which drove yields on the securities sharply lower.

The yield on the 10-year Treasury note sank to 3.52%, down from 3.72% on Friday and the lowest since early April. That should help pull mortgage rates lower, giving an assist to the housing market.

But as financial institutions hoarded cash, the banking system's key short-term interest rate rocketed as high as 6%, from 2%. The Federal Reserve responded by pumping $70 billion in cash into the system to try to pull the rate back down and keep money flowing.

Overnight, stock markets in Asia and in Europe had plummeted as foreign investors reacted to the unprecedented shake-up in the U.S. financial system -- the latest fallout from the housing market debacle.

Most European stock market indexes fell between 3.5% and 4%. Stocks tumbled 6.2% in Russia and 4.1% in Taiwan.

On Wall Street, investors focused on the potential for the bankruptcy of Lehman to result in a fire sale of the company's soured mortgage investments, which would put more downward pressure on real estate-related securities. That could cause more troubles for banks and brokerages already reeling from asset write-downs and desperate to raise capital.

"That's the major concern out there," said Art Hogan, market analyst at Jefferies & Co. in Boston.

Lehman's inability to find an investor to help bolster its balance sheet triggered the firm's collapse.

American International Group, also slammed by mortgage losses, was struggling to line up needed short-term capital. The state of New York, which regulates the company, gave it permission to borrow $20 billion from a subsidiary.

AIG shares dived as low as $3.50, but have since rebounded and were down $5.77 to $6.37 at about 11 a.m. PDT.

Bank of America was down $6.59 to $27.15 as Wall Street reacted nervously to the bank's plan to buy Merrill Lynch for $50 billion.

The biggest unknown: The potential economic effects of the latest financial system turmoil. If businesses and consumers retrench further, recession could become unavoidable.

Some analysts predicted that Federal Reserve policymakers would react to that threat by cutting their benchmark interest rate from the current 2% when officials gather on Tuesday for a regularly scheduled meeting.

Others said Fed officials probably would stand pat for the moment, but would make it clear that they're ready to move.

"They're going to indicate that they're going to do whatever they need to do," said Tom Tucci, head of Treasury bond trading at RBC Capital Markets in New York.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mainbar16-2008sep16,0,2406358.story

Keep trolling, Senior. Tell me I'm enjoying this as the company I contract for goes down the tubes and I have to rearrange my own portfolio.

How's the view from the cheap seats?

[SeniorChief]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mainbar16-2008sep16,0,2406358.story

Keep trolling, Senior. Tell me I'm enjoying this as the company I contract for goes down the tubes and I have to rearrange my own portfolio.

How's the view from the cheap seats?

What company do you contract for? Lehman?

Well, if you have ASSETS in the company - you're OK, for example - if Lehman manages your 401K and they tank - you still OWN THE ASSETS.

You do know that much, right?

[asroc]

Not Lehman, Media General.

I'm talking about my job.

[SeniorChief]

You're a contractor.
Get another contract. They're only down $2.75 as of now, BTW

What sort of work do you do for them

[asroc]

That's down 26%.

You seem to really know what you're talking about Senior!

Did you notice that INDU is down 400 points on the day I made this thread about?

[SeniorChief]

That's down 26%.

You seem to really know what you're talking about Senior!

Did you notice that INDU is down 400 points on the day I made this thread about?

It's actually 35% professor. But anyhow - what kind of contractual work do you do for them,.

[SeniorChief]

Hey -it's only down $2.66 now!!!

See - things are looking up!!!

[asroc]

It's actually 35% professor. But anyhow - what kind of contractual work do you do for them,.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:MEG

IT work.

[SeniorChief]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:MEG

IT work.

Well my friend - plenty of contract IT jobs to be had, that's for sure. So, you have an advantage in that regard

[Bill]

Keep bailing, chief. It's just a little leak.

There just isn't enough taxpayer money to bail them all out. Too bad - the first in line took all the money. So sad.

There's no problem. It's just a little correction.

No systemic mismanagement under republican rule - no risky borrowing and lending under republican deregulation - no damage done to main street - nothing to see here folks, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Awww, what a shame.

[SeedyROM]

Asroc, don't forget who deregulated the mortgage industry....... Bill Clinton. Research the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. The reason I mention it is the law was repealed in 1999 and both parties were stupid enough to buy it!! I can safely blame Clinton for being stupid enough to trust Wallstreet and Bush for not understanding that corporations write research to suit thier agenda at times. Economists crticized Clinton for good reasons!!!

Maybe one day you'll see why many are Independant Voters.

BOA buying MER is a good thing. MER was poorly run and the buyout saved the taxpayers billions in corporate welfare. Good for taxpayers, bad for investors, debtors and creditors. Risk is a bitch.

A book every politician should read.
Ethics and Corporate Social Responsibility
http://books.google.com/books?id=aqUNKdqMC2cC&pg=PA194&lpg=PA194&dq=repeal+of+the+Glass-Stegal+Act&source=web&ots=6KTrsml40s&sig=_ocAvnS6c5yZiSqzxEyDuNX2Q_8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

[SeniorChief]

The Dems have backed-off Sarah - realized that was a dumb mistake, so we revert to.... drum roll!!!!!

Recession.

Precisely what the Dems pitched in '92.

Typical.

[SeedyROM]

Keep bailing, chief. It's just a little leak.

There just isn't enough taxpayer money to bail them all out. Too bad - the first in line took all the money. So sad.

There's no problem. It's just a little correction.

No systemic mismanagement under republican rule - no risky borrowing and lending under republican deregulation - no damage done to main street - nothing to see here folks, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Awww, what a shame.

Didn't the wicked witch of the west Pelosi take over in 2004? Where's the dem leadership to cut spending since dems sweeped the majority in the House? Oh yea, Dems are clueless too! Senator Barney Frank & Co. are such the masters of Banking and Finance!:lmao2: Next time economists sppok about a run away makrket, maybe someone will listen............nope forget that, ther're all in bed with wallstreet.........Obama and his free healthcare buddies too!!

[disrupter]

i wonder how high on the Richter scale this little 'correction' will go?

[SeedyROM]

The Dow is at a yearly low and has lost all gains dating back to June of 2006.
Todays close is a double bottom for the Dow as well. Chart theory suggests a bounce if the bottom holds, if not 10,600 then 10,200 and so on. Today's selling.

I haven't seen talk of capilulation selling yet, today doesn't really qualifiy since capitulation selling tends to break far lower and a greater percentage loss in the indexes. Several weeks ago there was talk that the selloff then did not produce capitulation selling so many questioned if a double bottom would confirm that selloff as the bottom. The Dow is now at the double bottom. Price could go either way depending on how overseas markets react. Japan opens at 7pm EST.

[disrupter]

I think at this point it is mostly the financial sector that is full of rot,

but how well other, actually productive parts of the economy & market do relies on the retail economy,

with high gas prices, plummeting home values & a global contraction that is going to go through some struggles before the economy climbs back out.

America's biggest product in recent decades, namely bullshit, doesn't seem to have many buyers lately.

Luckily we still consume our own,
Calling the Iraq imperial enterprise some kind of 'salvation' for the poor Iraqi people.

[SeedyROM]

Oil closed at $94.10 so the majority of Americans will benefit from cheaper gas. Too little too late. The Bushbots have destroyed 2 countries in 8 years.

Will the pending hedge fund failures require a bailout? Oil prices closed back to February 2008 prices. I'm predicting hedge funds begging for bailouts. Even natural gas has dropped 50% in a months time. The suits were on the wrong side of all 3 markets.

Hey Bill, I bet your glad no one took that $100 bet? ehh you've still got time for prices to bounce after the elections. The loss of crude in the Gulf had no effect on prices, odd. The wallstreet boys are bleeding green and rasing capital. Nice to see them losing money sometimes!

Energy losses and begging wallstreet crooks, gimmie gimmie gimmie$$$ Clinton never should have bailed out Long Term Capital Mgt. Now all the crooks are spooning for money. Bunch of pigs!

[SeniorChief]

What a quote/unquote "CRASH" today, huh?

Better luck tomorrow.....

Another failed subject line...

[Dale escondido]

I think at this point it is mostly the financial sector that is full of rot,

but how well other, actually productive parts of the economy & market do relies on the retail economy,

with high gas prices, plummeting home values & a global contraction that is going to go through some struggles before the economy climbs back out.

America's biggest product in recent decades, namely bullshit, doesn't seem to have many buyers lately.

Luckily we still consume our own,
Calling the Iraq imperial enterprise some kind of 'salvation' for the poor Iraqi people.

You make a good point.
If it stays isolated to financial industry at this time we will not see much damage.
If other areas come into play immediately or shortly I believe we will see panic.
I think ending bailouts might be FINALLY a brilliant idea.
Maybe not for the right reason but the right result may follow.

[SeedyROM]

Citibank is rumored to be a near implosion state. Citi has been riding a loss for several quarters and still paying dividends. Debt heavy pig!! And lousy customer service!!

Tech stocks are alread hurting too but most are cash rich and have low debt.

HP and Dell Computer, Intel and AMD, as well as chip and board producers have been hurting for some time now due to the consumer spending rut.

Transportation is bleeding green as well as the automakers. There are more problems than wallstreet and CNBC care to discuss.

Retailers are seeing lower profits from same store sales but they are profitable, so we watch retail as a sign of deeper troubles or flattening out.

[disrupter]

I suppose it could hit other sectors if they are strung out on credit to some of these financial institution.

What is with Bank of America paying way above the market price for Merrill Lynch?
That sure sounds stupid to me.
i guess it depends on what Merrill's actual assets are worth, but at this point it seems much more prudent to assume they are vastly lower than stated on their books. Hard to even think of what a 'reasonably evaluated asset' even means at this point.

Of course if it sinks BOA, it is no skin off my nose. My personal experience with BOA has left me thinking they are very deserving of it.

[Dale escondido]

Citibank is rumored to be a near implosion state. Citi has been riding a loss for several quarters and still paying dividends. Debt heavy pig!! And lousy customer service!!

Tech stocks are alread hurting too but most are cash rich and have low debt.

HP and Dell Computer, Intel and AMD, as well as chip and board producers have been hurting for some time now due to the consumer spending rut.

Transportation is bleeding green as well as the automakers. There are more problems than wallstreet and CNBC care to discuss.

Retailers are seeing lower profits from same store sales but they are profitable, so we watch retail as a sign of deeper troubles or flattening out.

Cash rich and low debt, that sound like the old days.
Any business otherwise is suspect IMO.
Corporations shouldnt be living paycheck to paycheck.
I think retail is actually closer to disaster than you might think.
Furniture, bedding and higher end retail will be closing their doors one after the other.
retailer with import junk will hang in there.
Bad times weed out the weak and struggling entities, I would think one or two major deptartment stores after christmas.

[SeedyROM]

Cash rich and low debt, that sound like the old days.
Any business otherwise is suspect IMO.
Corporations shouldnt be living paycheck to paycheck.
I think retail is actually closer to disaster than you might think.
Furniture, bedding and higher end retail will be closing their doors one after the other.
retailer with import junk will hang in there.
Bad times weed out the weak and struggling entities, I would think one or two major deptartment stores after christmas.

Retail can hide the losses and declining sales better than other sectors, I agree that retail is not good. The big box companies like wal mart and target are the lucky ones but they are not immune in the long run. Furniture companies like Rooms to Go are going to regret giving free interest for 3 years. Consumer bankruptcies are going to increase as more layoffs occur.

[Dale escondido]

I suppose it could hit other sectors if they are strung out on credit to some of these financial institution.

What is with Bank of America paying way above the market price for Merrill Lynch?
That sure sounds stupid to me.
i guess it depends on what Merrill's actual assets are worth, but at this point it seems much more prudent to assume they are vastly lower than stated on their books. Hard to even think of what a 'reasonably evaluated asset' even means at this point.

Of course if it sinks BOA, it is no skin off my nose. My personal experience with BOA has left me thinking they are very deserving of it.

They are buying customers not the company.
I know how lame that sounds but it going on in the manufacturing sector like crazy.
They just know so much more than us
Kinda like studebaker kiaser packard merger.

[PhoneMistress]

Today was the worst slide on the stock market since 9/11;

WaMu’s stock was reduced to junk; and

AIG was downgraded to A.

[Dale escondido]

Today was the worst slide on the stock market since 9/11;

WaMu’s stock was reduced to junk; and

AIG was downgraded to A.

Didnt the stock market go down to 7900 after 911?
This will be an interesting week.

[SeedyROM]

Today was the worst slide on the stock market since 9/11;

WaMu’s stock was reduced to junk; and

AIG was downgraded to A.

This was a mini slide in comparison to 9/11 or the 1997 Asian Contagion.

I've seen 3 selloffs since 9/11 that were larger.

This selloff will be a short term buying opportunity.

[SeniorChief]

Today was the worst slide on the stock market since 9/11;

WaMu’s stock was reduced to junk; and

AIG was downgraded to A.

Bad day - yes.

Personally, my 401K took a bit of a hit, but that's the joy of investing!

Ups and downs, ride the storm.

Crash?

Nope.

[SeedyROM]

From Bloomberg BTRD, no links available.
Goldman Sachs (GS 131.24, -4.26) fell to a fresh 52-week low after reporting a 72% year-over-year drop in earnings per share. Revenue declined 40% in investment banking and 67% in trading and investments.

In corporate news, Dell (DELL 16.31, -1.67) said it is seeing a slowdown in global end user demand. Hewlett-Packard (HPQ 47.45, +2.12) is laying of 7.5%, or 24,600, of its workforce and is taking a charge of $1.7 billion related to its EDS acquisition.

Best Buy (BBY 41.95, -1.75) reported second quarter earnings of $0.48 per share, which is $0.09 worse than the average analyst estimate of $0.57. Despite a revenue increase of 12% year-over-year, earnings per share fell 14% due to increased spending related to store labor and the roll out of Best Buy Mobile.

On a more positive note, August CPI was in-line with expectations, showing a welcome 0.1% month-over-month decline thanks to a decrease in fuel costs. The core rate, which excludes fuel and food, rose 0.2%.

Crude prices are tumbling for the second day in a row, falling 3.5% to $92.33 per barrel. Commodities as a whole are down 0.8%.

Goldman Sachs is earning less now that themortgage losses are adding up and Goldman no doubt is making less on energy trading. Goldman is the worlds largest energy manipulator, opps I mean trader of derviatives.

[SeedyROM]

Market bounced off the lows, Dow up 157 so far. The double bottom may be in, to confirm the theory price has to increase 2% to 3% and hold. I'm surprised the Fed did not lower interest rates. Wallstreet was looking for a cut, these people have a way about them, they'll get thier way or sell off the market again.

[Cat slave]

Bad day - yes.

Personally, my 401K took a bit of a hit, but that's the joy of investing!

Ups and downs, ride the storm.

Crash?

Nope.

Well, I find it a bit unsettling but I try to keep in mind that "we will be there"
when the trend starts back up and can get some good deals. I have to
tell myself this daily!!!

What is it they say, its like a roller coaster, you only get hurt if you jump
off?:D

[Cat slave]

Market bounced off the lows, Dow up 157 so far. The double bottom may be in, to confirm the theory price has to increase 2% to 3% and hold. I'm surprised the Fed did not lower interest rates. Wallstreet was looking for a cut, these people have a way about them, they'll get thier way or sell off the market again.

Isnt it good that they didnt cut? Havent we overspent already? Shouldnt
we try to balance and get a hold of the countrys debt? Just a thought!

[SeedyROM]

Yup Catslave we've spent a bundle giving welfare to rich morons who do not know how to run thier businesses nor do they know the difference between propoganda versus factual information. Wallstreet is its own worse enemy.

AIG has been offered a bailout loan they can draw on if needed. I wonder if they will ever pay back the money if they take advantage of it. Most certainly they will spoon for the money. AIG has dropped 94% this year and another 50% in afterhours trading because nobody wants to buy the turd. Sell the turd on the courthouse steps, that's how foreclosures are dealt with.

[Dale escondido]

Yup Catslave we've spent a bundle giving welfare to rich morons who do not know how to run thier businesses nor do they know the difference between propoganda versus factual information. Wallstreet is its own worse enemy.

AIG has been offered a bailout loan they can draw on if needed. I wonder if they will ever pay back the money if they take advantage of it. Most certainly they will spoon for the money. AIG has dropped 94% this year and another 50% in afterhours trading because nobody wants to buy the turd. Sell the turd on the courthouse steps, that's how foreclosures are dealt with.

I just heard this news. Lehman no aig yes.
The government will own 80% of company if I heard it right.
This is capitalist approach to nationalized business. How wonderful.
You want to see how to run anything just look to government.

[asroc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm#Banking_Deregulation_and_the_2008_Mortg age_Crisis

[Dale escondido]

Since washinton mutual is a comminity bank and next ine lin I guess the answer is yes for sure.
Ford and GM ,well GMs bigger,,,, so ford no- gm yes.
This is tip of the iceburg stuff.
The great depression taught us that regulation regarding speculation were need to prevent this kinda stuff from happening.
But those pesky rules get in the way of profits.
Our leadership is running us off a cliff in our red and blue hats.

[SeniorChief]

What is it they say, its like a roller coaster, you only get hurt if you jump
off?:D

My financial manager had advised me to hang on many times over the years, no matter how bad it gets.

You only lose money if you cash in/get out.

Nice rebound yesterday. Made some of it back.

He did tell me the market will soar following the election - says it always does.

[Dale escondido]

My financial manager had advised me to hang on many times over the years, no matter how bad it gets.

You only lose money if you cash in/get out.

Nice rebound yesterday. Made some of it back.

He did tell me the market will soar following the election - says it always does.

Did he read that from a script? Always is a long time.
Doesnt matter who wins? Both have solutions we can live with.
Is he making his money in the market or advising investors?
I cant find advisors that make more than me ,so they can keep their advice.

[asroc]

SeniorChief's "financial advisors":

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2093/vindieselgiovanniribisieb7.jpg

[disrupter]

'you only get hurt if you jump off'?

anyone heard of ENRON?

LOL.

the SOONER you jump, the LESS you get hurt.

here's to happier landings, 'Geronimo!'

[asroc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pjSlIkNxXg

[SeniorChief]

SeniorChief's "financial advisors":

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2000_Boiler_Room/vin_diesel_giovanni_ribisi_boiler_room_001.jpg

A red X?

What are you... on dial-up?

[SeedyROM]

You guys and girls just witnessed a bear market rally reversal. Some took the bait yesterday, today the sharks are feeding on this cash.

Fundementals, chart rules and sitting on the sidelines versus chasing fast money.

[SeedyROM]

SeniorChief's "financial advisors":

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2093/vindieselgiovanniribisieb7.jpg


Lol, Boiler Room!:D

[Betty Blowtorch]

Remember the good old days http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7767/clintonbignosesp0.gif
when all we had to worry about
was Clinton getting a blowjob?

Which is worse: a blowjob or the financial meltdown of America?

Thank god for Bush and Cheney and all those morally upstanding
repugs who went to Washington and cleaned up the corruption.

And thank god for all those dim-witted rednecks who put Bush
in the White House (but regret it now) and can't wait to hand
over the reins of power to Grandpa McCain and his Pinup Girl.

Thank god I live in a country that has 60 million rednecks
who are allowed to vote (and breed.)

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5248/crackerspeopleap0.jpg
(they're just not very bright)

[SeedyROM]

To prevent an AIG bankruptcy filing, the Federal Reserve agreed to provide an $85 billion two-year lending facility in exchange for a 79.9% stake in the insurance giant. The Fed felt a disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility. The loan does not come cheap; AIG has to pay the three-month Libor rate (currently at 3.06%) plus 8.5%.

The bailout did little to stop the turmoil in the credit markets. The TED spread --the difference between the three-month Treasury bill and the three-month Libor -- spiked to 2.90%, marking its highest level since the crash of 1987. The higher spread indicates banks are showing more reluctance to lend to each other.

In an attempt to quell some fears, Morgan Stanley (MS 19.02, -9.68) announced its third quarter earnings last night, which was a day early. The company earned $1.32 per share, which blew past expectations by $0.54. Despite the earnings beat, the stock is trading 35% lower as Morgan Stanley's credit default swap -- which is the cost to protect debt -- rose to 728 basis points yesterday. By comparison, Lehman Brothers' (LEH 0.11, -0.19) swap traded at 707 basis points before it filed bankruptcy.

Morgan Stanley is flirting with credit disaster too, so where are the smartest guysin the room working these days.

[Dale escondido]

To prevent an AIG bankruptcy filing, the Federal Reserve agreed to provide an $85 billion two-year lending facility in exchange for a 79.9% stake in the insurance giant. The Fed felt a disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility. The loan does not come cheap; AIG has to pay the three-month Libor rate (currently at 3.06%) plus 8.5%.

The bailout did little to stop the turmoil in the credit markets. The TED spread --the difference between the three-month Treasury bill and the three-month Libor -- spiked to 2.90%, marking its highest level since the crash of 1987. The higher spread indicates banks are showing more reluctance to lend to each other.

In an attempt to quell some fears, Morgan Stanley (MS 19.02, -9.68) announced its third quarter earnings last night, which was a day early. The company earned $1.32 per share, which blew past expectations by $0.54. Despite the earnings beat, the stock is trading 35% lower as Morgan Stanley's credit default swap -- which is the cost to protect debt -- rose to 728 basis points yesterday. By comparison, Lehman Brothers' (LEH 0.11, -0.19) swap traded at 707 basis points before it filed bankruptcy.

Morgan Stanley is flirting with credit disaster too, so where are the smartest guysin the room working these days.

If this is a loan is the take over temporary?
The 79.9% is interesting also, as I understand general partnerships 80% is absolute control.
Since 75% of aig is foreign owned this seem awful complex to me.

[SeedyROM]

If this is a loan is the take over temporary?
The 79.9% is interesting also, as I understand general partnerships 80% is absolute control.
Since 75% of aig is foreign owned this seem awful complex to me.

I haven't looked at the full details. Looks like a blank check deal to borrow what they need to float the company in the short term. Long term they need a buyer or they need new management. AIG wants to retain the same management and board of doom. I doubt that will fly with investors. Too early to say if the executives will get golden parachutes or reduced payouts if they leave the company.

[Dale escondido]

I haven't looked at the full details. Looks like a blank check deal to borrow what they need to float the company in the short term. Long term they need a buyer or they need new management. AIG wants to retain the same management and board of doom. I doubt that will fly with investors. Too early to say if the executives will get golden parachutes or reduced payouts if they leave the company.

I have read 5-6 sites and still feel I know little. Havent found any source stating less than 80% takeover.
When i first heard i though a divisional sell off was likely, but this deal if it was that, all happened over a weekend.
It sounds to me from you posts you play in the market. I think the investors are always the expendable ones in this arena.
In the long run it probably would have been cheaper just to pay the mortgage payment for these small time speculators, assuming ownership of properties and selling off as market allowed.
Then a few bad actors in the mortgage industry could have been tried and jailed to let them know we wont allow creative to become criminal.

[asroc]

To prevent an AIG bankruptcy filing, the Federal Reserve agreed to provide an $85 billion two-year lending facility in exchange for a 79.9% stake in the insurance giant. The Fed felt a disorderly failure of AIG could add to already significant levels of financial market fragility. The loan does not come cheap; AIG has to pay the three-month Libor rate (currently at 3.06%) plus 8.5%.

The bailout did little to stop the turmoil in the credit markets. The TED spread --the difference between the three-month Treasury bill and the three-month Libor -- spiked to 2.90%, marking its highest level since the crash of 1987. The higher spread indicates banks are showing more reluctance to lend to each other.

In an attempt to quell some fears, Morgan Stanley (MS 19.02, -9.68) announced its third quarter earnings last night, which was a day early. The company earned $1.32 per share, which blew past expectations by $0.54. Despite the earnings beat, the stock is trading 35% lower as Morgan Stanley's credit default swap -- which is the cost to protect debt -- rose to 728 basis points yesterday. By comparison, Lehman Brothers' (LEH 0.11, -0.19) swap traded at 707 basis points before it filed bankruptcy.

Morgan Stanley is flirting with credit disaster too, so where are the smartest guysin the room working these days.

You need to start linking to your sources instead of pasting your posts outright.

It gives the impression that you actually wrote this when you did not. It's walking on the edge of plagiarism if not diving into the pool.

http://tinyurl.com/seedyplagiarism

[PhoneMistress]

I noticed that too and wanted to give him an opportunity to go back and correct his post. I bet it was an oversight.

[asroc]

I'm giving benefit of the doubt too, of course.

[SeedyROM]

You need to start linking to your sources instead of pasting your posts outright.

It gives the impression that you actually wrote this when you did not. It's walking on the edge of plagiarism if not diving into the pool.

http://tinyurl.com/seedyplagiarism

Wrong, go back a few posts and I mention Bloomberg data feed
http://www.bloombergtradebook.com/index_fl.htm

This data feed does not have links. Click the subject and the story without a link appears. Take anything posted above and load it on google as is and it is all there and verifiable. Plagerism is made up, posting without a link because I can't is different. Members do this from time to time. Besides there is nothing significant that can't be verified on your own. When challenged I go the extra mile unlike others who do not. I may refuse certain challenges by several members because of thier lack of concern with verifiable facts with links. I seen it 3 times , 4 counting mine.

[PhoneMistress]

Then perhaps put it in a quote box. In another thread you did the opposite. You quoted FactCheck but the second to the last paragraph was something you inserted (http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=63889&postcount=20)? Perhaps you missed the break for a second box. It's odd.

[SeedyROM]

Then perhaps put it in a quote box. In another thread you did the opposite. You quoted FactCheck but the second to the last paragraph was something you inserted (http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=63889&postcount=20)? Perhaps you missed the break for a second box. It's odd.

Not as odd as the 2nd child attack on Palin. I added quotes on other page.
I'll be doing things my way regardless.

[PhoneMistress]

It was a friendly suggestion. Your response is exactly what I expected. Thanks for not disappointing.

[SeedyROM]

It was a friendly suggestion. Your response is exactly what I expected. Thanks for not disappointing.

We both know what you were doing. I didn't mean to offend you but quite
obviously the guilt is there. Time to move on.

Perhaps you missed the break for a second box. It's odd.

[Dale escondido]

Stock market rebounded 400 today.
I guess its all better now. And i believed that they didnt know what they were doing in washington.
800 billion US money didnt do it . but 180 billion asia/euro injection was the right solution. Who would of thunk?
I sure hope there is no sharks, now the waters seem better.

[PhoneMistress]

Stocks surge on report of entity for bad debt (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gHs5OM3gFG_DytQQZFbWfgPT08MAD939AKA80)

It's funny because they said they were going to think about it.

[Dale escondido]

Stocks surge on report of entity for bad debt (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gHs5OM3gFG_DytQQZFbWfgPT08MAD939AKA80)

It's funny because they said they were going to think about it.

I guess the government owned insurance company aig will put up the funds to start this new entity?
I heard they came into some new money lately.

[SeedyROM]

fyi, the talk about charting and the Dow was my interpretation of different charting time frames and potential moves next day. We always looks at both sides of the arguement and forecast the next move. Whether the selloff is over or not is a coin toss. Today looked more like dressing up the pig than somethin firm. What I call a Shake and Bake market.

[Betty Blowtorch]

I guess the government owned insurance company aig
will put up the funds to start this new entity?
Ain't it funny how Republicans hate the idea of the government
providing health insurance for average Americans, but as soon
as any rich Republicans get into financial trouble because of
their greed and bad business decisions, they start screaming
for the government (really the taxpayers) to provide financial
insurance for the rich?

[SeedyROM]

Crime does pay. Stupid executive gets a reward for failure.

I don't think free healthcare is affordable. If passed there should be an income cap otherwise free healthcare becomes more corp. welfare to more than just healthcare/insurance greedheads.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21549196/
Merrill Lynch's departing chief executive, Stan O'Neal, will walk away with $161.5 million in stock, options and retirement benefits, the company said Tuesday.

O'Neal, the second-highest paid Wall Street CEO in 2006, retired from Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. on Tuesday, almost a week after the investment bank reported its largest-ever quarterly loss. The $2.24 billion loss was precipitated by a $7.9 billion third-quarter writedown, as the company revalued assets backed by shaky mortgages. O'Neal's ouster was expected after the loss.

O'Neal left with a $131.4 million equity package of stock, options, restricted shares and restricted units. His restricted stock and restricted stock units will continue to vest on their original schedules, the company said.

He also has retirement benefits worth $24.7 million, while his deferred compensation stands at $5.4 million, according to the company. He will be entitled to an office and an executive assistant for up to three years.

Since O'Neal will keep his options and his stock grants, he could do even better if the stock rises under a new CEO, said James F. Reda, a compensation consultant. A $10 jump in the stock under new management could mean $30 million for O'Neal.

There is some precedent for such an ironic windfall. After Michael Eisner was ousted as CEO at The Walt Disney Co. in 2005, he made another $100 million when the company's stock price improved under his replacement, Reda said.

"It's a funny dynamic," Reda said.

But Reda questioned both the size of O’Neal’s package and why Merrill made O’Neal, 56, eligible for retirement even as he ran the company. The policy guaranteed O’Neal so much money that “he was basically indifferent,” Reda said.

O'Neal's parting wealth comes after he spent five years as Merrill's CEO, earning nearly top dollar. O'Neal's 2006 pay was approximately $48 million, second on Wall Street only to the $54.3 million earned by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. CEO Lloyd C. Blankfein.

[asroc]

I'll be doing things my way regardless.

You're eventually going to face an admin if you don't cite what you're pasting.

[SeedyROM]

You're eventually going to face an admin if you don't cite what you're pasting.

One boo boo versus how man others have done, so what. At least I clarified the issue. Copy and paste to google. Its not like I'm posting political articles.

So where's your link for this stock? Lehman is it? How about a link to the picture for the movie for Boiler Room?

That's down 26%.

You seem to really know what you're talking about Senior!

Did you notice that INDU is down 400 points on the day I made this thread about?


How about this post?

Today was the worst slide on the stock market since 9/11;

WaMu’s stock was reduced to junk; and

AIG was downgraded to A.

[asroc]

It's not plagiarism to state the current price of a stock or index, or even to state something in general, as long as it's your own words, Seedy.

What you did was to paste an entire article without citation, leaving the average reader with the assumption that you wrote it. Or at least leaving them with skepticism about your honesty.

There's a difference between making a statement that anybody could verify or debunk, and copying somebody else's writing without permission or citation. What you did was plagiarism, whether intended or not.

I wouldn't be beating a dead horse, but you've gone from obtuse to combative regarding the obvious difference.

[SeedyROM]

And you are posting without links which is exactly what I did, right Asroc? Those pics belong to a Hollywood studio you know. fyi, I was not being combative, I was pointing out the same mistake made by you. Try not to make a Federal case out of a minor issue. And I promise I will not inform the studio of your indiscretion j/k. Nuff said! Want the last word?

[Dale escondido]

Ain't it funny how Republicans hate the idea of the government
providing health insurance for average Americans, but as soon
as any rich Republicans get into financial trouble because of
their greed and bad business decisions, they start screaming
for the government (really the taxpayers) to provide financial
insurance for the rich?

Your assuming all players involved are republicians?
But you right everyone loves the fruit of the government money tree when they fuck up.
If everyone got a golden parachute when fired that would fix everything, you think?:lmao2:

[asroc]

And you are posting without links which is exactly what I did, right Asroc? Those pics belong to a Hollywood studio you know. fyi, I was not being combative, I was pointing out the same mistake made by you. Try not to make a Federal case out of a minor issue. And I promise I will not inform the studio of your indiscretion j/k. Nuff said! Want the last word?

You still don't understand the difference. It's not the same thing at all. Nobody in the world could possibly believe a picture from a movie that I posted would have been my own creation. It's patently obvious.

However what you did could have been easily misconstrued as you passing off somebody's work as your own. I'm not pasting articles somebody else wrote without citation.

I have a feeling you clearly know what you did, you're just arguing an asinine point because you were caught.

[SeedyROM]

You and Phone Mistress are equally guilty! Get over it! Stop making excuses for your failure to provide links, that too is patently obvious. At least I admit what I did and gave explanation.

[asroc]

Last gasp of the loser.

[SeedyROM]

Last gasp of the loser.



You are so full of hate and cynicism.

Double standards, quite pathetic

Plagerist hypocrit!!:talktothehand: