Can a fellow conservative explain......

[Cat slave]

Without intending to I caught a few moments of McCain being interview on
FOX. Im having a really hard time not being absolutely rabid toward him.
He talks about wanting people from other countries to come here and get
educated and stay here and work, not just go home and make it better there.
WTF is that idiot thinking about? Thousands of jobs are being lost every
friggin day and he would even suggest providing employment for everyone
but us!!!!! He shouldnt even think about anything but us!!!!!!

I really want to vote for him to get Pallin, but such as I witnessed last night
is making me think twice. And Alan Keyes will be on the TN ballot. I may
not have my way, but I will have my say with my vote....among other
mean.:banghead:

[Cat slave]

.....means!

[bairdi]

Vote for Keyes and send America a message there Cat slave.:banana:

[SeedyROM]

Obama has the same plans Catslave. Neither party will stop replacing American talent with foreingers. Unfortunantley our kids are being coddled and coveted and allowed to pass and earn a diploma without getting a comparable education. Many foreign nations are kicking our asses with better math and science education. This crap has been going on since the 1990's, weaker standards, no accountability. Now we are behind the curve and replacement talen is coming from abroad while politicians debate and argue and both parties continue to cut education funding.

Even worse, kids have too many easy choices with diplomas. Over half of teachers are not educated or smart enough to teach. Many want to teach for the high pay starting at $38,000 a year in some states and the state pension, easy job and low work load in the summer. Teaching is falling behind. Many teachers simply have an education degree but they have no specialized training in the subjects they teach. Many states have no special requirements for employment. Each school gets to choose the hiring requirements based on state guildelines but they schools can choose to neglect certain teachers and avoid hiring specialized talent. The more educated smarter teachers can be passed over for cheaper general talent. Smarter teachers end up in private schools and universities. Something I've seen in my years of living in different states is many schools tend to hire people who grew up and went to the same school and the buddy buddy system of chronyism and nepotism.

Obama has already said he'll send jobs to poor countries too!

Math and science teachers should have degrees in the subject they teach. An education major is not enough. Just because a teacher knows algebra and trig well does not make them a good teacher. Same for science and biology.

[bairdi]

Obama has the same plans Catslave. Neither party will stop replacing American talent with foreingers. Unfortunantley our kids are being coddled and coveted and allowed to pass and earn a diploma without getting a comparable education. Many foreign nations are kicking our asses with better math and science education. This crap has been going on since the 1990's, weaker standards, no accountability. Now we are behind the curve and replacement talen is coming from abroad while politicians debate and argue and both parties continue to cut education funding.

Even worse, kids have too many easy choices with diplomas. Over half of teachers are not educated or smart enough to teach. Many want to teach for the high pay starting at $38,000 a year in some states and the state pension, easy job and low work load in the summer. Teaching is falling behind. Many teachers simply have an education degree but they have no specialized training in the subjects they teach. Many states have no special requirements for employment. Each school gets to choose the hiring requirements based on state guildelines but they schools can choose to neglect certain teachers and avoid hiring specialized talent. The more educated smarter teachers can be passed over for cheaper general talent. Smarter teachers end up in private schools and universities. Something I've seen in my years of living in different states is many schools tend to hire people who grew up and went to the same school and the buddy buddy system of chronyism and nepotism.

Obama has already said he'll send jobs to poor countries too!

Math and science teachers should have degrees in the subject they teach. An education major is not enough. Just because a teacher knows algebra and trig well does not make them a good teacher. Same for science and biology.
Obama has the same plans as McCain? Would you care to back that statement up with some non bias documentation?

[SeedyROM]

Obama has the same plans as McCain? Would you care to back that statement up with some non bias documentation?

The media have already discussed the similarity with immigration ideas and employment. Both men are kissing but to corporate demands for illegals and legal immigration to replace American talent. I prefer non biased sites the majority of the time, too many liars and tabloid sleazo sites out there.

I doubt either candidate will ever end tax breaks to send jobs overseas, in fact Obama has already pledged billions and jobs to other nations. Employers will want encentives to move jobs, they don't do anything for free you know. Obama is going to flip flop and give incentives, McCain too. Fortunatley both men want to fund more education money to educate talent at home......too little too late.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Immigration.htm
Voted YES on establishing a Guest Worker program.
Voting YES establishes a guest worker program with a path to citizenship for illegal aliens who have worked in the US for 5 years. The bill:
Increases border security and enforcement
Makes it unlawful to knowingly hire, recruit, or refer for a fee an unauthorized alien.
Establishes a temporary guest worker program (H-2C visa) with a three-year admission and one additional three-year extension; and issuance of H-4 nonimmigrant visas for accompanying or following spouse and children;
Provides permanent resident status adjustment for a qualifying illegal alien, and family, for aliens who have been in the US and employed for five years.
Proponents of the bill say:
Our immigration system is broken and needs to be repaired. This bill is a strong step in the right direction. We need to protect our borders and look out for American workers, and we also need a responsible way to meet the need for temporary workers, particularly in the agricultural area, where they represent about 70 percent of the U.S. agricultural workforce, with a path to earned citizenship for hard-working, law abiding temporary workers. This bill, the product of bipartisan compromise, takes a commonsense approach to all of these issues.
Opponents of the bill say:
Our country has been built by immigrants. But the reason we have had quotas for immigration is the world has progressed in different parts of this globe at a very different rate. In some countries, the economies have lagged far behind.
There are jobs available in this country with rates of pay that are far in excess of those of Third World countries. We have on our southern border people who aspire to come to this country. In order to protect our way of life and our standard of living and to protect jobs, we have quotas.


Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship.
This amendment to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act would prohibit H-2C nonimmigrants ("Guest Workers") from adjusting to lawful permanent resident status. Voting YEA on the motion to table (which would kill the amendment) indicates supporting a path to citizenship for guest workers. Voting NAY on the motion indicates opposing any path to citizenship. The amendment says:
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, an alien having nonimmigrant status is ineligible for and may not apply for adjustment of status.''
Proponents of the amendment say to vote NAY because:
The Immigration Reform Act purports to create two different paths to citizenship for those, first of all, who are in the country living outside of the law in an undocumented status, and secondly, for those who are not yet present in the country but who want to come here at some future date to work.
We have given the somewhat misleading name of ''guest worker'' to the so-called future flow. A guest is not ordinarily defined as someone who moves in with you and never leaves.
These so-called guest workers could work here up to 6 years, after which they then apply for a green card. They then get on the path to American citizenship 5 years later.
It is important for us to debate this issue honestly. The amendment simply makes the point that a guest worker ought to be temporary.
Opponents of the amendment say to vote YEA because:
If this amendment should pass, that whole compromise is destroyed because a fundamental part of that compromise was that those who have been here for 2 to 5 years would be eligible for green card status and citizenship. This amendment would destroy that compromise.
We have examples today in Europe of having people living in your country with no hope to ever be a part of that society. No hope, no opportunity, no future, but we will let you work.





We want to have a situation in which those who are already here, are playing by the rules, are willing to pay a fine and go through a rigorous process should have a pathway to legalization. Most Americans will support that if they have some sense that the border is also being secured. What they don't want is a situation in which there is a pathway to legalization and you've got another several hundred thousand of folks coming in every year. That is a central position we should be able to arrive at.


Q: In the absence of comprehensive immigration reform, do you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants?
A: Yes. I am going to be fighting for comprehensive immigration reform, and we shouldn't pose the question that, somehow, we can't achieve that. The American people desperately want it; that's what I'm going to be fighting for as president.

[Hog Trash]

Both are pro amnesty for illegal immigrants which means both have been bought off by corporations wanting cheap labor north of the border.

Either that or they're just stupid and out of touch with whats going on out here in the real world....What do you think? Bought off or stupid?

Best strategy is to elect McCain and hope Palin doesn't get corrupted in next four years and make her Prez in 2012.

[SeedyROM]

Both are pro amnesty for illegal immigrants which means both have been bought off by corporations wanting cheap labor north of the border.

Either that or they're just stupid and out of touch with whats going on out here in the real world....What do you think? Bought off or stupid?

Probably a little of both. If corps don't get thier way they'll threaten to lay off workers because they claim they can't afford USA labor. Might relocate jobs to lower income states, cut election funding etc..... They always have a way to bully DC.

[bairdi]

The media have already discussed the similarity with immigration ideas and employment. Both men are kissing but to corporate demands for illegals and legal immigration to replace American talent. I prefer non biased sites the majority of the time, too many liars and tabloid sleazo sites out there.

I doubt either candidate will ever end tax breaks to send jobs overseas, in fact Obama has already pledged billions and jobs to other nations. Employers will want encentives to move jobs, they don't do anything for free you know. Obama is going to flip flop and give incentives, McCain too. Fortunatley both men want to fund more education money to educate talent at home......too little too late.
Cat Slave said "He talks about wanting people from other countries to come here and get
educated and stay here and work, not just go home and make it better there."

You said "Obama has the same plans Catslave."

I asked for some non bias proof. Nothing in what you posted states that Obama wants to bring people from other countries, educate them and then have them stay and work. You state a lot of opinion about Obama that I believe misrepresent his positions and are false.

[Jesse Hemingway]

Both are pro amnesty for illegal immigrants which means both have been bought off by corporations wanting cheap labor north of the border.

Either that or they're just stupid and out of touch with whats going on out here in the real world....What do you think? Bought off or stupid?

Best strategy is to elect McCain and hope Palin doesn't get corrupted in next four years and make her Prez in 2012.
Ronald Reagan opened the boarders for illegal aliens to drive down labor cost by increasing labor supply. Over the last 28 years no one has closed off the illegal labor supply. So if that is your biggest problem your dumber then you come across.

[SeedyROM]

Cat Slave said "He talks about wanting people from other countries to come here and get
educated and stay here and work, not just go home and make it better there."

You said "Obama has the same plans Catslave."

I asked for some non bias proof. Nothing in what you posted states that Obama wants to bring people from other countries, educate them and then have them stay and work. You state a lot of opinion about Obama that I believe misrepresent his positions and are false.

Bairdi, I'm stating facts from speech, go to factcheck.org if you think its bogus. Better yet, re-read Catslaves statement about people coming to the USA, getting educated and staying here. That's what the CAT said dude! Then re-read this statement again.......reading comprehension owns you!!!

Without intending to I caught a few moments of McCain being interview on
FOX. Im having a really hard time not being absolutely rabid toward him.
He talks about wanting people from other countries to come here and get
educated and stay here and work, not just go home and make it better there.
:


After 5 years they can apply for a GREEN CARD = American Status!!!


The Immigration Reform Act purports to create two different paths to citizenship for those, first of all, who are in the country living outside of the law in an undocumented status, and secondly, for those who are not yet present in the country but who want to come here at some future date to work.

We have given the somewhat misleading name of ''guest worker'' to the so-called future flow. A guest is not ordinarily defined as someone who moves in with you and never leaves.

These so-called guest workers could work here up to 6 years, after which they then apply for a green card.

They then get on the path to American citizenship 5 years later.



You need to cool down and learn how to read better and get a grip on the discussion. I did not misrepresent anything. You did not read the info provided or reading comprehension owns you!!

Sometimes you have t have faith that some people are not out to slander Obama for the sake of an election. I look at facts and discuss them.

[bairdi]

Bairdi, I'm stating facts from speech, go to factcheck.org if you think its bogus. Better yet, re-read Catslaves statement about people coming to the USA, getting educated and staying here. That's what the CAT said dude! Then re-read this statement again.......reading comprehension owns you!!!




After 5 years they can apply for a GREEN CARD = American Status!!!




You need to cool down and learn how to read better and get a grip on the discussion. I did not misrepresent anything. You did not read the info provided or reading comprehension owns you!!

Sometimes you have t have faith that some people are not out to slander Obama for the sake of an election. I look at facts and discuss them.
I think it is you who has comprehension problems my friend. I said "Nothing in what you posted states that Obama wants to bring people from other countries, educate them and then have them stay and work." I did not state that the "On the Issues" piece was not fact.

I then said that "You state a lot of opinion about Obama that I believe misrepresent his positions and are false." This is an observation I make from reading your posts.

The "On the Issues" article you posted deals with a Guest Worker Program and does not address foreign students nor does it deal with the issue that Cat Slave raises about McCain. You are drawing conclusions from the article that are just not there.

[AVG_JOE]

Both are pro amnesty for illegal immigrants which means both have been bought off by corporations wanting cheap labor north of the border.

Either that or they're just stupid and out of touch with whats going on out here in the real world....What do you think? Bought off or stupid?

Best strategy is to elect McCain and hope Palin doesn't get corrupted in next four years and make her Prez in 2012.

In my opinion, Palin is about as corruptible as a politician can be, considering how long she has served in public life. She is not a pig in lipstick, she is George Bush in drag.

It is no wonder she is the darling of the extreme right - 20% of Americans still think Bush can walk on water and that 20% is Palins 'base'.

If you like the last 8 years, vote Palin / McCain. If not, vote for someone else.

-Joe

[PhoneMistress]

If you like the last 8 years, vote Palin / McCain. If not, vote for someone else.

Amen. Nuff said. Voting for a dying sick man is the same as voting for that woman for president. If anyone wants to do that, G-d bless, go forward.

[SeedyROM]

I think it is you who has comprehension problems my friend. I said "Nothing in what you posted states that Obama wants to bring people from other countries, educate them and then have them stay and work." I did not state that the "On the Issues" piece was not fact.

I then said that "You state a lot of opinion about Obama that I believe misrepresent his positions and are false." This is an observation I make from reading your posts.

The "On the Issues" article you posted deals with a Guest Worker Program and does not address foreign students nor does it deal with the issue that Cat Slave raises about McCain. You are drawing conclusions from the article that are just not there.

No actually the issues surrounding immigration and education are quite clear. A forienger can live and work in the USA for 5 years, then apply for the Green Card and become a citizen. Did you know there are 27 different Visa with loopholes thicker written than a phone book. I'm going on the facts and seeing through the Bills and thier intentions. Immigration and the replacement of workers with foreign talent shall continue. With a few new obstacles. Yet we can't get a decent education program going becaus eof political bickering.

[SeedyROM]

In my opinion, Palin is about as corruptible as a politician can be, considering how long she has served in public life. She is not a pig in lipstick, she is George Bush in drag.

It is no wonder she is the darling of the extreme right - 20% of Americans still think Bush can walk on water and that 20% is Palins 'base'.

If you like the last 8 years, vote Palin / McCain. If not, vote for someone else.

-Joe

Funny, now how many dems and reps did Bush prosecute or request the resignations from? Did Bush clean up problems or create more?? Seriously you are mixing two people who have nothing in common and attempting to display a sense of fear over a woman who is a well documented reformer. Paln has done more reforming since she ran for City Council than 99% of all elected officials. Nows that's a stretch right? Of course it is, but how many Reps have gone after their own party members and the other side too and actually done something? People complain Palin listens and acts. When has Bush ever listened and acted for the people?

[AVG_JOE]

Funny, now how many dems and reps did Bush prosecute or request the resignations from? Did Bush clean up problems or create more?? Seriously you are mixing two people who have nothing in common and attempting to display a sense of fear over a woman who is a well documented reformer. Paln has done more reforming since she ran for City Council than 99% of all elected officials. Nows that's a stretch right? Of course it is, but how many Reps have gone after their own party members and the other side too and actually done something? People complain Palin listens and acts. When has Bush ever listened and acted for the people?

In my informed opinion?

I don't care. Corruptible politicians are like gay people - sometimes they're easy to spot in a crowd and sometimes they're not. Palin, in my opinion, is a lobbyists wet dream.

-Joe

[SeedyROM]

In my informed opinion?

I don't care. Corruptible politicians are like gay people - sometimes they're easy to spot in a crowd and sometimes they're not. Palin, in my opinion, is a lobbyists wet dream.

-Joe

LOL, so you think lobbiests have a bridge to somewhere with Palin. So you admit Obama is corruptible too. Good, all that money in 2years bought Obama something a handshake and a speech can't buy$$$$$

[AVG_JOE]

LOL, so you think lobbiests have a bridge to somewhere with Palin. So you admit Obama is corruptible too. Good, all that money in 2years bought Obama something a handshake and a speech can't buy$$$$$

Everyone is corruptible. But I think Obama decided he wanted to be president when his mom died. Special interests didn't kill her but they made the paper work of dying a bitch. I think he surprised the money behind the parties in this country and for the first time in my memory, we have a choice that was not 'well groomed' for the position.

The money was expecting Hillary to win and McCain was to be the sacrificial lamb. The cost of 8 profitable years with Bush. Same thing that happened between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole. The money did not expect to care who won, now they're scrambling to make McCain electable.

You want proof? "Sarah Palin".

Obama is unexpected and it is the unscripted nature of this election that gives me hope for the first time in my 36 years of voting.

-Joe

[Cat slave]

Cat Slave said "He talks about wanting people from other countries to come here and get
educated and stay here and work, not just go home and make it better there."

You said "Obama has the same plans Catslave."

I asked for some non bias proof. Nothing in what you posted states that Obama wants to bring people from other countries, educate them and then have them stay and work. You state a lot of opinion about Obama that I believe misrepresent his positions and are false.

Go back and see who said that! I didnt but whoever did is right. The
thread was about McAmnesty....period!!! Stay on topic...its McAmnesty!

[Cat slave]

LOL, so you think lobbiests have a bridge to somewhere with Palin. So you admit Obama is corruptible too. Good, all that money in 2years bought Obama something a handshake and a speech can't buy$$$$$

ROTFL....he got you there!:lmao2:

[bairdi]

Go back and see who said that! I didnt but whoever did is right. The
thread was about McAmnesty....period!!! Stay on topic...its McAmnesty!
WTF are you jabbering about?

[Cat slave]

You said I referred to The Obamanation......believe me, he was the furthest
pig from my mind! Get your facts straight.

I was looking for someone to explain McAmnestys desire to fill American
jobs with foreign educated workers! I thought it a rather simple question.
What, cant get your facts straight?

[Cat slave]

Vote for Keyes and send America a message there Cat slave.:banana:

I will at least have made a statement, not gone to the touch screen and
voted blindly because I am so easily led by carefully chosen words that
lack substance.

[Cat slave]

Obama has the same plans Catslave. Neither party will stop replacing American talent with foreingers. Unfortunantley our kids are being coddled and coveted and allowed to pass and earn a diploma without getting a comparable education. Many foreign nations are kicking our asses with better math and science education. This crap has been going on since the 1990's, weaker standards, no accountability. Now we are behind the curve and replacement talen is coming from abroad while politicians debate and argue and both parties continue to cut education funding.

Even worse, kids have too many easy choices with diplomas. Over half of teachers are not educated or smart enough to teach. Many want to teach for the high pay starting at $38,000 a year in some states and the state pension, easy job and low work load in the summer. Teaching is falling behind. Many teachers simply have an education degree but they have no specialized training in the subjects they teach. Many states have no special requirements for employment. Each school gets to choose the hiring requirements based on state guildelines but they schools can choose to neglect certain teachers and avoid hiring specialized talent. The more educated smarter teachers can be passed over for cheaper general talent. Smarter teachers end up in private schools and universities. Something I've seen in my years of living in different states is many schools tend to hire people who grew up and went to the same school and the buddy buddy system of chronyism and nepotism.

Obama has already said he'll send jobs to poor countries too!

Math and science teachers should have degrees in the subject they teach. An education major is not enough. Just because a teacher knows algebra and trig well does not make them a good teacher. Same for science and biology.

Well, the teachers union will sure resent that!!! The truth hurts sometimes.
This education racket has gotten to be like organized crime...a mob!
A teacher can do enough time, get tenure and cant be fired, even if they
cant teach...but they pay their dues to the union and get protection!
Sounds like the mob to me. And that train went off the tracks a long time
ago.

[bairdi]

You said I referred to The Obamanation......believe me, he was the furthest
pig from my mind! Get your facts straight.

I was looking for someone to explain McAmnestys desire to fill American
jobs with foreign educated workers! I thought it a rather simple question.
What, cant get your facts straight?
No I did not! I never said you referred to Obama......Seedy Rom is the one that brought Obama into the conversation by saying Obama had the same position as McAmnesty. I just asked him to provide some type of confirmation for his claim. How about reading the thread before you start shoveling the bs?

[bairdi]

I will at least have made a statement, not gone to the touch screen and
voted blindly because I am so easily led by carefully chosen words that
lack substance.
I agree with you. Go for it!!! I encourage you to follow your conscience and vote Keyes!

[SeedyROM]

Well, the teachers union will sure resent that!!! The truth hurts sometimes.
This education racket has gotten to be like organized crime...a mob!
A teacher can do enough time, get tenure and cant be fired, even if they
cant teach...but they pay their dues to the union and get protection!
Sounds like the mob to me. And that train went off the tracks a long time
ago.

And Obama wants to let Unions decide how teacher will teach instad of allowing parents to make the big decisions. Mob mentality for sure, Chicago style............ObamaCapone!!!

[SeedyROM]

The money was expecting Hillary to win and McCain was to be the sacrificial lamb. The cost of 8 profitable years with Bush. Same thing that happened between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole. The money did not expect to care who won, now they're scrambling to make McCain electable.

You want proof? "Sarah Palin".

Obama is unexpected and it is the unscripted nature of this election that gives me hope for the first time in my 36 years of voting.

-Joe

Obama unscripted, now that's a rare event. Clinton was a good President for the most part. But he was Slick Willie, money slick too, lol.

[AVG_JOE]

Obama unscripted, now that's a rare event. Clinton was a good President for the most part. But he was Slick Willie, money slick too, lol.

I don't mean to imply that Obama is unscripted... Any leader worth what we pay them is going to plan what they say...

I am talking about an election, the first in my memory, that includes a major party candidate that was not pre-approved by the big money that owns both the RNC and the DNC.

-Joe