Obamas nut job mother taught him early how to juice our system.

[oneway]

Poor Mrs. Obama.

Applied for food stamps while going to graduate school! Most people are happy to have an undergraduate so they can get a job and contribute/ pay back their debts. Not Mrs. obama, she was a great example to barry on how to juice the system. She applied and received food stamps while going to an expensive graduate school!!!!!

I am so glad our public funds are being funneled to all needy graduate students!

He learned quite well from the mentaly ill, highly unstable mother that abandoned him. Take as much as you can get from the hard working to further yourself.

Typical scum.

[Hog Trash]

Momma Obama was simply a typical socialist who took much more than she ever gave back. Socialism encourages laziness, stagnation and a loss of productivity and sense of self worth. America already has the fattest poor people in the world. One hundred poor Americans, outweigh two hundred of the working Americans it takes to feed them......Products of "socialism". Now we offer our socialist programs to illegal immgrants, our next group of burdens on America. America will soon collapse under the weight of it's non-productive dependents, and the liberals will blame it on everybody but themselves, except of course the corporations. They will all have left America, and taken their jobs to nations where people still work for a living and taxes and regulation do not destroy their bottom line.

[asroc]

Wow, taking shots at a guy's mother. Classy.

[oneway]

I calls them as I sees them... and by the way asroc last time I saw your mama she was smiling and smoking a winston light!

[oneway]

Hog, I think you just coined e new tag for Michele...mama obama..I like it!

[SeniorChief]

I thought his father was a nutjob, as well as being a communist.

His mother was too?

[Moby]

I thought his father was a nutjob, as well as being a communist.
Why are so many people accusing others of being Communists these days? Do you have any evidence to support such a claim?

I know that Beck throws around the phrase all the time but he openly admits to having drug and alcohol dependencies as well as being crazy.

My wife grew up in Communist Ukraine but was never politically active and not old enough to vote during the cold war. Does that make here a Communist and will that be held against my daughter one day?

[SeniorChief]

Why are so many people accusing others of being Communists these days?

Sorry - Marxist is more accurate.

[Moby]

Sorry - Marxist is more accurate.
Still no evidence?

Certainly you must able to show some evidence that Obama's father was a Marxist then. A nut job is obviously a judgement call but a Marxist should be pretty easy point to.

[oneway]

How bout his father was a loser drunk. Good enough for you? His mom was a nut job, that abandoned him with her parents after moving him to Idonesia for two years .

barry's childhood makes Bill Clinton's trailer trash upbringing look like paradise.

[SeniorChief]

Still no evidence?

Certainly you must able to show some evidence that Obama's father was a Marxist then. A nut job is obviously a judgement call but a Marxist should be pretty easy point to.

His father was a communist.

His voting record - most LIBERAL in the Senate, leans Marxist.

[oneway]

Gee, sharp contrast in picking prseidential candidates, republicans choose the greatest and most successful stable American "stock". the Democrats choose the most disfuctional families and individuals they can find with only one necessary requirement. Solid teleprompter skills.

Scary Huh?

[asroc]

I thought the Republicans chose a guy the base hated and called RINO just a few years back.

It's also strange that the black guy who was raised by a single mother is the "elitist" in this election, as opposed to the son of an admiral who married the politically connected daughter of a beer baron.

[oneway]

Oops almost missed it! Sir Moby answered the small ad in the back of the sports section: Hot Russian woman ready to marry! Only $999.00 (plus airfair)

You poor bastard, stuck with a mail order bride. No wonder you are so angry...and liberal.

You got the only thick one of the bunch I bet...studda bubbba yuck!

[oneway]

Mobeys wife... "Mobey, your slower than a soviet breadline, get me some more vodka with your foodstamps you lazy bastard..and quit chating online with your comrads you red bastard. You are worse than where I came from!"

[asroc]

Oneway, you know, most browsers have a built in spell check nowadays.

[oneway]

spell checkers are for dorks. phonetics is a lost art.
I am not writing a resume ....dork.

[Moby]

His father was a communist.

His voting record - most LIBERAL in the Senate, leans Marxist.
Let me be clear. I'm asking if you have any reliable news sources to support your claim that his father was a Communist? If you don't then just admit it.

Liberal and Marxist are very different styles of government. You should know that. Besides, who decides what is liberal and what is conservative these days? Have you ever checked into that?

[asroc]

I didn't realize Obama's dead father was running for president.

[SeniorChief]

Let me be clear. I'm asking if you have any reliable news sources to support your claim that his father was a Communist? If you don't then just admit it.



I read it somewhere a long time ago - don't remember where, nor do I care/have the desire to seach to provide you with a link.

[PhoneMistress]

The claim that Obama Sr. was a communist stems from a paper he wrote July 1965 entitled Problems Facing Our Socialism (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_eastafrica.html). It was a critique of Sessional Paper Number 10 which was an effort by the Kenyan government to blend capitalism with socialism aka African Socialism.

Whoever made these false charges obviously did not read the paper or failed to comprehend the subject matter or both.

[SeedyROM]

I thought the Republicans chose a guy the base hated and called RINO just a few years back.

It's also strange that the black guy who was raised by a single mother is the "elitist" in this election, as opposed to the son of an admiral who married the politically connected daughter of a beer baron.


McCain chased the right money, politicians love corrupt money washed clean.

Do they call men gold diggers too? Or elitist gold digger!:lmao2:

[Hog Trash]

The claim that Obama Sr. was a communist stems from a paper he wrote July 1965 entitled Problems Facing Our Socialism (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_eastafrica.html). It was a critique of Sessional Paper Number 10 which was an effort by the Kenyan government to blend capitalism with socialism aka African Socialism.

Whoever made these false charges obviously did not read the paper or failed to comprehend the subject matter or both.The four steps to the destruction of a democratic republic;
1. Liberalism
leads to
2. Socialism
leads to
3. Communism
leads to
4. Totalitarianism

Capitalism and socialism do not mix...When you mix dirty water with clean water, you get dirty water...2084...Maybe George was only a hundred years off?

[Moby]

The four steps to the destruction of a democratic republic;
1. Liberalism
leads to
2. Socialism
leads to
3. Communism
leads to
4. Totalitarianism

Capitalism and socialism do not mix...When you mix dirty water with clean water, you get dirty water...2084...Maybe George was only a hundred years off?
Are these your four steps Dr. Sheep Trash?

When considering Totalitarianism, why are you ignoring the founders and funders of the PNAC?

[Moby]

Oops almost missed it! Sir Moby answered the small ad in the back of the sports section: Hot Russian woman ready to marry! Only $999.00 (plus airfair)

You poor bastard, stuck with a mail order bride. No wonder you are so angry...and liberal.

You got the only thick one of the bunch I bet...studda bubbba yuck!
Your prejudice is showing and can no longer be hidden.

Why would any man of integrity attack another man's wife without knowing anything about her?

I think it says a lot about you and if I was a Neocon commentator you'd be very useful in the weak man style argument against your cause.

[Moby]

I read it somewhere a long time ago - don't remember where, nor do I care/have the desire to seach to provide you with a link.
Just checking.

Some people are motivated solely by emotions such as fear. Some base opinions on factual information. Others base it on false information all together and that's often why employees of Rupert Murdoch will throw out false information and then later quietly apologies.

I just wanted to know what type of person you are.

[asroc]

The four steps to the destruction of a democratic republic;
1. Liberalism
leads to
2. Socialism
leads to
3. Communism
leads to
4. Totalitarianism

Capitalism and socialism do not mix...When you mix dirty water with clean water, you get dirty water...2084...Maybe George was only a hundred years off?

Are you saying all tax funded national projects meant for the welfare of others are inherently socialist?

[SeedyROM]

Your prejudice is showing and can no longer be hidden.

Why would any man of integrity attack another man's wife without knowing anything about her?

I think it says a lot about you and if I was a Neocon commentator you'd be very useful in the weak man style argument against your cause.

New rule, ban assholes permanetly for getting personal, family is out of bounds.
Tomorrow, lift the rule. :D

[Hog Trash]

Are you saying all tax funded national projects meant for the welfare of others are inherently socialist?I'm saying socialism will not settle for one little weed in one little spot. Weeds must grow and spread. With one foothold, the door is opened and politicians will use the promise of government socialist programs to pander votes from every class of people and corporations and small businesses in America. They are even pandering to illegal aliens for future votes. Socialism is the greatest tool the government uses to increase it's power and control and it doesn't cost them a thing, the taxpayers foot the bill...Wake up.

[Hog Trash]

Are these your four steps Dr. Sheep Trash?

When considering Totalitarianism, why are you ignoring the founders and funders of the PNAC?I ignore no government socialist program and condemn them all, regardless of their political affiliation......Am I clear enough?

[SeniorChief]

I just wanted to know what type of person you are.

You determine this by anonymous posts on the Internet?
Are you the Amazing Kreskin or something???

[Hog Trash]

You determine this by anonymous posts on the Internet?
Are you the Amazing Kreskin or something???
I think SirMoby may be psychedelic.

[asroc]

I'm saying socialism will not settle for one little weed in one little spot. Weeds must grow and spread. With one foothold, the door is opened and politicians will use the promise of government socialist programs to pander votes from every class of people and corporations and small businesses in America. They are even pandering to illegal aliens for future votes. Socialism is the greatest tool the government uses to increase it's power and control and it doesn't cost them a thing, the taxpayers foot the bill...Wake up.

Didn't answer my question.

[Hog Trash]

Didn't answer my question.
I believe in NO socialist programs for the reasons I stated. Capitalism with some socialist programs don't work. You can't have both. Socialism will grow, and consume capitalism. You can't be a little bit socialist. It's like being a little bit pregnant. It will grow and spread. Have you noticed in every capitalist democracy in the world, socialism is growing and freedom is decreasing. Socialism can not be confined or restricted. Zero tolerance is the only deterent for socialism. This was not known in the beginning but there should be no doubt of it now. I thought you could figure this out from my other post. I suppose I over estimated you.

[asroc]

Still didn't answer my question.

[Hog Trash]

Are you saying all tax funded national projects meant for the welfare of others are inherently socialist?If this is the question you are refering to, I have answered the shit out of it in two seperate posts, asroc.

Why don't you just tell me what's on your mind instead of trying to set me up for a "GOTCHA"....You're being childish.

[asroc]

You did a lot of hemming and hawwing and browbeating, but you didn't actually answer that question.

It's a yes or no question. You can even ramble with a bunch of qualifiers after your answer, but it's still inherently "yes" or "no".

[SeniorChief]

Still didn't answer my question.

What's the question - I will take a stab at answering it....

[asroc]

Are all tax funded national projects meant for the welfare of others are inherently socialist?

[Hog Trash]

Of coarse not. I'm aware of the governments Constitutional rsponsibilities to the people, if that's what you're refering to.

Do you know the difference in those and socialist programs? I think you're trying to play word games...If that be the case, I don't wish to play.

[SeniorChief]

Are all tax funded national projects meant for the welfare of others are inherently socialist?

Anything provided by the government (given out to all equally) is socialist. Taking away from the "rich" to give to the "poor" is precisely what Dems would like to do more of.

Would you feel comfortable with the government taking care of you, giving you a handout?

I know I wouldn't.

[asroc]

I'm asking basically, how things like the new deal, the highway system, social security, the gi bill, or federal funding for public libraries aren't inherently socialist programs.

None of which, as far as I know, are constitutional responsibilities of the government.

You can accuse me of being a socialist for asking this, if that's your prerogative.

[Hog Trash]

None of the things you named are the resposibility of the federal government.

State or local resposibilities only. The people get more bang for their buck with less waste and corruption.

[SeniorChief]

I'm asking basically, how things like the new deal, the highway system, social security, the gi bill, or federal funding for public libraries aren't inherently socialist programs.

None of which, as far as I know, are constitutional responsibilities of the government.

You can accuse me of being a socialist for asking this, if that's your prerogative.

How can, the highway system, for example - be considered a "SOCIALIST" program?

[SeedyROM]

Hog, is SSI a socialist program? How about free information from the government like IRS docs or other goverment publication programs, you know the people in Pueblo, CO.

Voting is free is that socialist?

SSI provided supplemental income to retirees and the disabled. How can it be a socialist program when we live in a democracy ? SSI provided income because FDR knew people had little or no income after retirement. Many small and medium sized companies could not afford to pay into pensions. All Americans are eligible for SSI once they earn 40 credits, regardless of income. The government financed its own growth with SSI, people spent the money which created commerce and taxes. To me social programs are for the needy but there are many programs that cater to all regardless of income that wouldn't qualify as being social.

[asroc]

None of the things you named are the resposibility of the federal government.

State or local resposibilities only. The people get more bang for their buck with less waste and corruption.

No, everything I named is either a federal program or recieves federal funding.

[bairdi]

Anything provided by the government (given out to all equally) is socialist. Taking away from the "rich" to give to the "poor" is precisely what Dems would like to do more of.

Would you feel comfortable with the government taking care of you, giving you a handout?

I know I wouldn't.
So I guess you will voluntarily not take any of the benefits offered to you once you leave the Navy? Please don't read into this that I do not believe you are not entitled to these benefits provided by the government because I believe you are. If, however, you feel uncomfortable with the government taking care of you, then I see you have no choice but to turn down what is offered to you.

When you choose to leave the Navy, you will continue to receive assistance as a Navy veteran. This can include the services of the Veterans Administration in terms of finding employment or schooling, no-money-down and low interest loans for new homebuyers, preferential hiring for government jobs, and receipt of Montgomery G.I. Bill money for school if you choose to contribute during your enlistment.


If you make the Navy your career, your retirement benefits will be far greater. You will receive generous retirement pay, and you will continue to receive health benefits and on-base shopping privileges similar to those you enjoyed while on duty.

http://www.navy.com/benefits/after/

[asroc]

How can, the highway system, for example - be considered a "SOCIALIST" program?

According to the definitions of socialism I'm seeing thrown around here (but not necessarily my own), it was a public works project that took our tax money and put it towards a federally funded employment program.

As opposed to letting free market capitalism sort it out on its own.

[Hog Trash]

How can, the highway system, for example - be considered a "SOCIALIST" program?
The highway system is a special case for the reason it is a national and state project which connects the United States. I would agree to federal funding for interstate highways and bridges only.

[SeniorChief]

So I guess you will voluntarily not take any of the benefits offered to you once you leave the Navy?

My "retirement package" from the Navy is a Socialist program?

That is the topic here - Socialism. Just being sure you knew that....

[SeniorChief]

The highway system is a special case for the reason it is a national and state project which connects the United States. I would agree to federal funding for interstate highways and bridges only.

It's all Federally Funded, however, the Feds pass those $$$'s to the states.

[asroc]

Interstates. They're funded by state (fuel taxes) and federal at the same time.

On the east coast (even liberal socialist NJ/NY/New England), toll roads are more prominent, despite the fact that toll roads are less socialist.

Ask Kres all about it, he's the forum's resident fundamentalist libertarian.

[asroc]

Also, how on earth do you get to be Hog Trash's age (just judging by his photo) without knowing that Social Security is a federal program?

[Hog Trash]

To me social programs are for the needy but there are many programs that cater to all regardless of income that wouldn't qualify as being social.
I can see the logic in this and agree with you seedy. You and Chief both spoke of programs that benefited all, indescrimanantly. All workers pay into SSI and I see the neccesity for it. We all travel on the highways. We all are protected by the military. We all benefit from border security. These are good and necessary things.

The main point I am making is that we must be careful about opening the door to socialism, which actualy we already have. Socialism will not settle for one program. Politicians will use it as a tool to pander votes by making every promise under the sun to get a vote. Look what they have already done and what they are about to do with socialized medicine. Have you seen the list of Government programs Obama wants to unleash on America? We have become numb to the ever growing socialist programs. People look at the "freebees" without realizing our children and grandchildren will pay dearly for our folly. We must change our ways before it's to late.

[asroc]

Yeah, gee... universal health care... as opposed to this massively successful corporate/private insurance thing we've got going!

I mean, heck, universal healthcare has only been a success in 9/10 of the developed nations that try it.

[SeniorChief]

Yeah, gee... universal health care... as opposed to this massively successful corporate/private insurance thing we've got going!

I mean, heck, universal healthcare has only been a success in 9/10 of the developed nations that try it.

It might be a "success" for the recipient, who doesn't pay "SQUAT" for healthcare (that's taken care of in the form of said recipient paying taxes through the ass to pay for the "free" healthcare) -

But, it sure as hell isn't a "success" for the Doctors. Hell, most Canadian doctors LEAVE Canada to come to work in the U.S.

Fact.

They're nothing more than "GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES" up there - earning squat. As a result, they have no initiative - Why bother busting ass, going the extra mile? They're not going to receive a bonus.

Walk into an ER in Atlanta or any other major U.S. city. Chances are you'll bump into several Canadians.

[asroc]

Go to any hospital in Canada, and you'll find it's full of people from Michigan, despite the fact that Michigan ranks amongst the best states in the nation for health care, nobody can seem to afford it.

Surprisingly, the hsopitals there are also full of doctors, despite your "fact".

I should know, I lived in Michigan, where thousands of auto workers lost their insurance.

: )

Here are other cases of successful implementations of universal healthcare:

Austria, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Peru, Cuba, Uruguay, Venezuela, Brunei, China, Hong Kong SAR, India, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, South Korea, Seychelles, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, and Thailand.

The US is drastically slipping behind other developed nations in healthcare, in life expectancy for women we rank 42nd, in infant mortality we're 37th best (behind even Cuba), down to 17th in men's life expectancy from being 1st, overall we're 67th in immunization (behind fucking Botswana).

And Canada is healthier than us when it comes to heart disease.

In almost all over these we were #1 best in care in 1960. Now we've fallen behind everybody that is even slightly developed.

[SeedyROM]

The main point I am making is that we must be careful about opening the door to socialism, which actualy we already have. Socialism will not settle for one program. Politicians will use it as a tool to pander votes by making every promise under the sun to get a vote. Look what they have already done and what they are about to do with socialized medicine. Have you seen the list of Government programs Obama wants to unleash on America? We have become numb to the ever growing socialist programs. People look at the "freebees" without realizing our children and grandchildren will pay dearly for our folly. We must change our ways before it's to late.

I see problems with socialism too and I see politicians using the old Dick Dodge routine when asked questions. I don't believe socialized healthcare will be possible due to debt obligations and the costly ME cockroach fight that moves from one location to another. If those countries policed and contained terrorist/cockroaches then the majority of muslims would be free to live on thier own terms. We have to cool down the ME so we can rebuild first. Healthcare is not a top priority to the government.

Fortunatetly, we have many who will resist socialistic agendas. Some people need to study socialized medicine in Canada and the wait times for rountine medical needs. I don't beleive all Americans need free healthcare, Obama wants it for all. He will never sell it to the legislature even though its an easy sell to voters. Healthcare for a wide income group, maybe. With a cut off above $125,000. People earning more should be expected to cover themselves. I can afford my own coverage.

What the majority don't get is that free healthcare for all is going to be the next big Corporate Welfare program. Corporatons will freeload all the expense onto the Fed and total compensation will drop. And do these people really think the boss is going to give them a larger raise after the Fed pays for healthcare. Profits will boost, stock prices will rise, and executives will profit the most.

[SeniorChief]

In almost all over these we were #1 best in care in 1960. Now we've fallen behind everybody that is even slightly developed.

The U.S. leads the world in medicine/medical care.
Trust me- I've traveled around a bit...

I lived in Japan from 95-97. Fucking dentists there still hadn't gotten around to weaing gloves yet.

[Moby]

The U.S. leads the world in medicine/medical care.
Trust me- I've traveled around a bit...

I lived in Japan from 95-97. Fucking dentists there still hadn't gotten around to weaing gloves yet.
The Japanese dental care does leave a lot to be desired. I loved the women in Tokyo on my trips there but messed up teeth were very common. Eastern Europe has really good dental care. My trips through there showed it and I've had work performed in Bulgaria that was superior to how things work here.

[SeedyROM]

I know some NY residents who get free healthcare in Canada. Most are free loaders, 2 I can say could not afford coverage due to income restraints. Theft of services is theft regardless. Canadians come to the USA to get help now rather than waiting. A friend from Toronto waited 8 months to get medical care for catarct disease. The govt. pulled his divers license because he could not see, so his family had to drive him to work on bad weather days, he road a bike the rest of the time.

Canadians are healthier because they eat healthier meals, not because of healthcare.