In God We Trust!

[Binky]

It's been said that 86 % of Americans believe in God. If that is true, then why are the powers that be trying to remove, "IN God We Trust, from our money? Or why the static about "God" being mentioned in the pledge of allegience? Hmmmmm......once again, there seems to be a major discrepancy here.

And here I go........


I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED
> STATES OF AMERICA , AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT
> STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH
> LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!


I don't give a hoot who hates it. That's their problem. This is my country. Even with all her troubles, she is still mine and I love her.

She's been good to me and mine. We have not been in a concentration camp. We have not had armed soldiers busting in our doors and hauling us off. We are able to travel from point A to point B within our country without special permission. She has allowed us to run our mouths until our teeth are clattering. Living within her borders we are able to worship any way we see fit. We can dress as wierdly as we want. Or we can expose ourselves on some nudist beach. We don't have to wear any strange, uncomfortable garments. We haven't had to lie awake at night and listen to machine gun fire and mortars going off. And our heads are still connnected to our neckbones and our neckbones are connected to our shoulder bones. There is no lopping off of heads.

Am I a proud American? Is there any doubt? However, I'm not proud of the things some individuals do to tear her apart and rip her to shreds. I am not proud that we, the people, have let it happen.

Still, with all the good, bad and the ugly, she is still mine. That's another fact.

[PhoneMistress]

FYI

“under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.

“In God We Trust” was added to the currency in 1957.

[Independent Harry]

It's been said that 86 % of Americans believe in God. If that is true, then why are the powers that be trying to remove, "IN God We Trust, from our money? Or why the static about "God" being mentioned in the pledge of allegience? Hmmmmm......once again, there seems to be a major discrepancy here.

And here I go........


I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED
> STATES OF AMERICA , AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT
> STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH
> LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!


I don't give a hoot who hates it. That's their problem. This is my country. Even with all her troubles, she is still mine and I love her.

She's been good to me and mine. We have not been in a concentration camp. We have not had armed soldiers busting in our doors and hauling us off. We are able to travel from point A to point B within our country without special permission. She has allowed us to run our mouths until our teeth are clattering. Living within her borders we are able to worship any way we see fit. We can dress as wierdly as we want. Or we can expose ourselves on some nudist beach. We don't have to wear any strange, uncomfortable garments. We haven't had to lie awake at night and listen to machine gun fire and mortars going off. And our heads are still connnected to our neckbones and our neckbones are connected to our shoulder bones. There is no lopping off of heads.

Am I a proud American? Is there any doubt? However, I'm not proud of the things some individuals do to tear her apart and rip her to shreds. I am not proud that we, the people, have let it happen.

Still, with all the good, bad and the ugly, she is still mine. That's another fact.

This is a recent addition and we ar ea secular nation. We were created that way, because ultimately all nations that are not secular tend to become theocracies. Then you will see al lthat fun stuff you just talked about us not having,

[disrupter]

Spot on, Phone Mistress.

Originally the pledge was for fealty in a time of war.

only later was that pledge TWISTED into some kind of religious prayer.

ANOTHER RELIGION SPAWNED CORRUPTION.

Why don't people select & CHOOSE their gods?
Why don't they hold them up for scrutiny BEFORE they commit to them?

Otherwise you are buying a pig in a poke.

Most religious texts indicate their so-called gods are psychopathic madmen.

Why in hell would you commit to a PROVEN WACKO no matter how powerful they are or CLAIM they are?

Doesn't that really make you a being of 'easy' virtue?
A lesser being, who can't even keep their powder dry.

Obviously we are not the beings of commanding intellect we so often claim or infer.

Religion = Dumb as a Dinosaur

possible exceptions might be zen buddhism,
or some kind of logic based code of ethics.

[Hog Trash]

I too pledge alegence to the flag, the one under God, not Alah, if for no other reason, than just to piss off the politicaly correct liberal progressive athiests assholes...Damn, that was a mouth full!

[Moby]

if for no other reason, than just to piss off the politicaly correct liberal progressive athiests assholes...Damn, that was a mouth full!
Such a great free thinker that spends time trying to piss off those that see past his own bull shit. A year from now you should read your posts from these past few months. If you've grown and moved on you'll understand a lot about your anger today.

[Moby]

FYI

“under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.

“In God We Trust” was added to the currency in 1957.
Many believe that it was at the encouragement of the Knights Of Columbus.

The pledge was also written by a member of the Socialist Party and I find it interesting that someone such as Sheep Trash is so afraid of Socialism while embracing a socialist practice.

Our founding fathers wanted a free society. They are smart enough to know that religion is often used to take away freedoms and control a population.

Do 86% believe in Jesus Christ? Would Jesus be proud of man that does things just to piss off others? Would Jesus be proud of Hannity or Bush?

The statements are just words that have no meanings and the debate for the words often shows that they have no meaning to the people that want them.

[Hog Trash]

Such a great free thinker that spends time trying to piss off those that see past his own bull shit. A year from now you should read your posts from these past few months. If you've grown and moved on you'll understand a lot about your anger today.If Obama is elected president, a year from now I would be extremely happy and relieved to find out I was wrong about him. America is facing disaster, and needs a hero. I am not the selfish person you think I am. My mind will always remain open to examine all the evidence. It takes more than a pretty face, a smooth line of shit and a friendly smile to own me. This is why I am not easily fooled and manipulated by slick politicians.......I've been around a long time and have developed extraordinary survival skills my friend. If you had access to those who know me best, you would find out, Hog is not easily fooled.

[Mr, gone]

Hog,

Yeah, like in your post on another thread, your 'mind' was so open as to somehow know that the Gitmo prisoner who reportedly got his penis cut off to extract a confession - was for the better as no longer being able to reproduce.

What kind of joke are you going to attempt to justify that narrow minded predjudice.

Open minded??? :lmao2:

[SeedyROM]

I have no problem with "In God We Trust".

If we allow these wack jobs to erase our money today, tomorrow they'll want the Masonic Temple and the Eye removed, then the Presidents and finally they'll want to change the color of money because it represents the old christain currency. Remember the Confederate Flag issues, they couldn't agree on color or design. Leave the currency alone.


Vote online, this debate is circling the net.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/

Should the motto "In God We Trust" be removed from U.S. currency? * 7394596 responses

Yes. It's a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.
21%

No. The motto has historical and patriotic significance and does nothing to establish a state religion.
79%
Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.

[disrupter]

Hog,

How the fuck do you know that 'god' in the pledge isn't Allah?

My theory is that Satan & God are the same guy wearing alternate costumes.

Once a dictator Always a dictator.

These people think like a singularity in physics,
they can't escape their own ultra-micro circular thinking.

Really a very sad commentary on humanity,

or rather the lack of intellect in humans.

Your intellect should BRIDGE the gap of your own stupidity.
With these people everything has collapsed into a BLIND COMMITMENT to ignorance as a RELIGION.

A religious devotion to ignorance.

not only stupid,
but determinedly stupid.

This just can't be MY species, can it?

[disrupter]

I think the real reason people align with some fantastic god notion is because in some way they think if they submit to it, they 'become' it.

newflash, you are still the same stupid idiot you were before,
only with more 'socially shared acceptability'.

I suppose insect/machine pathology is sort of like desperately dropping anything but blind animal instinct.

Most organized religion is for lower forms of life.

It isn't pro-life,

it IS pro-LOWlife

which is why a blastocyst is more important to them than another real, living breathing human being.

[Moby]

My mind will always remain open to examine all the evidence.
Do you actually believe this? Outside of Frank I've never seen anyone so close minded around here.

[Binky]

I too pledge alegence to the flag, the one under God, not Alah, if for no other reason, than just to piss off the politicaly correct liberal progressive athiests assholes...Damn, that was a mouth full!


Well Hog, I pledge allegience because I love my country and not because I want to piss people off. It gives me a warm feeling to say it and hear it spoken and my heart swells. Rather comforting, actually. I get a lump in my throat.

There is no doubt in my mind and heart that other people around the world, feel the same way about their flag and country as well. That's as it should be.

Pissing people off seems to be a lot of what has been going on in America these days. We've strayed from "turning the other cheek" ( and I'm sure someone will slam me about that phrase also), to slamming slurs and whatnot back at them on a continual basis. Very pretty indeed. And oh so classy.

[Independent Harry]

Well Hog, I pledge allegience because I love my country and not because I want to piss people off. It gives me a warm feeling to say it and hear it spoken and my heart swells. Rather comforting, actually. I get a lump in my throat.

There is no doubt in my mind and heart that other people around the world, feel the same way about their flag and country as well. That's as it should be.

Pissing people off seems to be a lot of what has been going on in America these days. We've strayed from "turning the other cheek" ( and I'm sure someone will slam me about that phrase also), to slamming slurs and whatnot back at them on a continual basis. Very pretty indeed. And oh so classy.

For once we agree, the question is, why pledge alliegaince to a flag under god, when we are a secular nation. America wasn't created under God, it was created by men striving to create a system of justice and capitilism that would allow a free people all forms of belief.

[SeedyROM]

Pissing people off is all these haters want to do. Burn the flag, erase our currency and devolve the country into a Godless state of despair. Live and let live used to be the norm. Now the angry wackos have a voice in the media and the government and the media feed on the hate messages and contine the spread of hate. Atheists have no idea is God exists. All hype and theory, proof comes on judgement day.

Atheists, Jews and Muslims have already bullied the country into no more
"Merry Christmas" signs in retail stores and some city governments have caved in as well. They can have thier beliefs but they want to destroy ours like the country was created for them to destroy and reshape in thier image or something. So much for all forms of belief.

These groups damn America 24/7 and make Rev. Wright's speech look a little less hostile. :D

[Moby]

Pissing people off is all these haters want to do.
Who are the haters? The flag burners obviously, but what about those that say the pledge for no other reason then to piss people off. Aren't they also haters and part of the problem?

[Binky]

For once we agree, the question is, why pledge alliegaince to a flag under god, when we are a secular nation. America wasn't created under God, it was created by men striving to create a system of justice and capitilism that would allow a free people all forms of belief.


Well, I can't say why our forefathers wrote that line in there. I wasn't there. Maybe they truly believed in God more than people today do. One thing for sure, they were certainly more grateful for their blessings and being here, than folks today are. But for me, I say it because I was raised in a home that believed in God. And for me not to say it would be disrespecting the men that wrote it.

It's one thing to be a non-believer. It's another to slam others because of what they believe. Who are we to say whether or not God exists? Or Allah? Or Buddha? And why should it bother others the way someone worships or what they believe in?

It's a matter of people wanting to control the thoughts and minds of others. To impose their ideals, ideas and beliefs on others has become a hobby for many.

[SeedyROM]

Who are the haters? The flag burners obviously, but what about those that say the pledge for no other reason then to piss people off. Aren't they also haters and part of the problem?

I think we need more people saying the pledge, if it pisses off the atheists and other races, then more power to the pledge and the people!! Taking pride in a national past time is not hating, but if it makes other mad maybe they'll back off and go away. They are pissed at our customs, let them build thier own schools and cities.....opps they can't.....segregation.

My point is, live and let live. These groups want to fade our beliefs into oblivion and they don't care about what we want. We can't have Merry Christmas in stores and in city decorations but others can have a Hannucka Bush or Kwanza.

Read the Muslims Guide to Surviving Xmas, they say Paul lied about the death of Jesus. Christmas is holiday, not everyone practices religion on this day. But will they live and let live, no.
MUSLIM'S SURVIVAL GUIDE TO CHRISTMAS

http://www.jannah.org/articles/xmas.html

[Dale escondido]

When someone is comfortable with themself and their belief you dont find radial behavior IMO.
The less certainty the more extreme the behavior.
When someone is programed, usually from birth this does not hold true.
Nations that allow religious freedom have a more diverse intelligent population than those who indoctrinate beliief.
Again there are always some exception opening the door to those who would eliminate religion is possible.
Havent you every met a person thats so together you ask what is their belief system?
I have found few who offer their secrets without asking first.

[PhoneMistress]

Well, I can't say why our forefathers wrote that line in there...But for me, I say it because I was raised in a home that believed in God. And for me not to say it would be disrespecting the men that wrote it.

Our forefathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written in 1892 to help a company sell flags to schools. Those flag selling efforts were tied to Columbus Day, the first holiday of the new school year. 60 years later the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization, rewrote the pledge to include the phrase “under God”. Then in 1954 Dwight Eisenhower who ironically was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness signed a joint resolution of Congress changing the pledge to include “under God”.

Reverend Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. He wrote extensively about how he came up with the pledge including words that he decided not to use and never once did he consider the phrase “under God”. Such an addition would have been considered by non-Catholics to be sacrilegious.

The Pledge of Allegiance was never about religion. It was and is about country.

[Independent Harry]

Well, I can't say why our forefathers wrote that line in there. I wasn't there. Maybe they truly believed in God more than people today do. One thing for sure, they were certainly more grateful for their blessings and being here, than folks today are. But for me, I say it because I was raised in a home that believed in God. And for me not to say it would be disrespecting the men that wrote it.

It's one thing to be a non-believer. It's another to slam others because of what they believe. Who are we to say whether or not God exists? Or Allah? Or Buddha? And why should it bother others the way someone worships or what they believe in?

It's a matter of people wanting to control the thoughts and minds of others. To impose their ideals, ideas and beliefs on others has become a hobby for many.

Sometimes I feel like you write a response to a post without ever really reading what you are responding to. The pledge was not written by our forefathers, phone mistress has gracefully written down the history of the pledge for you, twice so far. now oneof them was after this post, so if you still do not understand the point we are making after you read down the line a bit. Then I dont really know what to say at that point.

But you are right, we should not say anything about other poeople's beliefs, which is why prayer in school and having church intermingled with government is a bad idea. Because it forces people to act on beliefs they don't hold.

[Hog Trash]

Well Hog, I pledge allegience because I love my country and not because I want to piss people off. It gives me a warm feeling to say it and hear it spoken and my heart swells. Rather comforting, actually. I get a lump in my throat.

There is no doubt in my mind and heart that other people around the world, feel the same way about their flag and country as well. That's as it should be.

Pissing people off seems to be a lot of what has been going on in America these days. We've strayed from "turning the other cheek" ( and I'm sure someone will slam me about that phrase also), to slamming slurs and whatnot back at them on a continual basis. Very pretty indeed. And oh so classy.
I too say the "pledge" for all the right reasons Binky...I only meant "if for no other reason", what I said......I just don't like liberals very much...sorry.

[SeedyROM]

It's just a phrase we accept. Accepting or spending money in no way imposes religion on anyone. If these people are offended at the words, maybe they could just ignore the words. Instead they bring in the church and state into an argument they'll never win because the majority rule.

But do the majority require laws or even rules that everyone go to church?

Do the majority require everyone read the Bible or at least keep one at home?

Tell'em to use debit and credit cards...........problem solved. We're going into a cash free system of plastic as is.

No law requires these people to live here or use our currency. They choose to be here so they'll get over it. Let them cry, I don't care! :thumbsup:

These groups impose a change but they refuse to change themselves.

[Hog Trash]

Hog,

How the fuck do you know that 'god' in the pledge isn't Allah?

My theory is that Satan & God are the same guy wearing alternate costumes.

Once a dictator Always a dictator.

These people think like a singularity in physics,
they can't escape their own ultra-micro circular thinking.

Really a very sad commentary on humanity,

or rather the lack of intellect in humans.

Your intellect should BRIDGE the gap of your own stupidity.
With these people everything has collapsed into a BLIND COMMITMENT to ignorance as a RELIGION.

A religious devotion to ignorance.

not only stupid,
but determinedly stupid.

This just can't be MY species, can it?
I really don't care who alah is disrupter...I just said that to Rip your ass...sorry......Look Binky, you got me apologizing to disrupter.

[Moby]

I think we need more people saying the pledge, if it pisses off the atheists and other races, then more power to the pledge and the people!!
The problem and concern that I have with the pledge is how it's used to manipulate beliefs and politics.

George H. W. Bush once said "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

As Binky is proof, many people believe that it is part of our heritage and part of freedom and democracy when it is clearly NOT. It was written by Socialist and NOT a supporter of free markets.

Our forefathers made it clear that religion and government should be very separate and that means that pledging an allegiance to the country should be very separate then pledging to a religion.

Our forefathers wrote about "Nature's God" which is from a non-christian belief.

If people were smart enough, open minded enough and educated enough to understand that the phrase "One nation under God" was put in there during the Cold War to push a new form of Fascism to help separate us from The Communist movement (we believe in God/they do not) then it would not be an issue.

However, people are not. Political leaders will want to use it to separate our population and control it. Bush's (a man that I respect) are a perfect example of that. Binky's beliefs that our fonding fathers had anything to do with the pledge is another. Hog's use of it to spread hate is another.

In this thread alone we can find numerous examples of how combining religion and government are not promoting the real building blocks of this nation.

If no one tried to use the pledge to seperate, control or anger the population then I'd be all for it but clearly it's being used for those purposes.

[Hog Trash]

Hog,

Yeah, like in your post on another thread, your 'mind' was so open as to somehow know that the Gitmo prisoner who reportedly got his penis cut off to extract a confession - was for the better as no longer being able to reproduce.

What kind of joke are you going to attempt to justify that narrow minded predjudice.

Open minded??? :lmao2:
I will make no joke to "justify that narrow minded predjudice" as you call it.

The truth is, I show no mercy to a merciless enemy.

We are dealing with cowards who indescrimanently murder men, women, children and the elderly.

The more of them we kill, the better...The more they suffer, the more better.

Let the terrorist, experience terror, at the hands of their American victims.

Their screams and pleas for mercy are music to my ears.

[Independent Harry]

I will make no joke to "justify that narrow minded predjudice" as you call it.

The truth is, I show no mercy to a merciless enemy.

We are dealing with cowards who indescrimanently murder men, women, children and the elderly.

The more of them we kill, the better...The more they suffer, the more better.

Let the terrorist, experience terror, at the hands of their American victims.

Their screams and pleas for mercy are music to my ears.

Then you are no better than the pepole taht attack us, and that is sad...

[asroc]

I too pledge alegence to the flag, the one under God, not Alah, if for no other reason, than just to piss off the politicaly correct liberal progressive athiests assholes...Damn, that was a mouth full!

I guess that's a better reason than actually loving your country, right?

Seems like that would be the first reason that comes to mind, but to each their own...

[Hog Trash]

Then you are no better than the pepole taht attack us, and that is sad...
You seem to like them alot......I suppose the reason being is you and them share the same enemy.

I suspect you have a soft spot for many America haters......Hmmm...Wonder what's up with that?

You've already stated that you don't practice political correctness, so it must be something else.

[Moby]

The truth is, I show no mercy to a merciless enemy.
Without a trial how do you know (beyond any reasonable doubt) that this man was our enemy?

Aren't you making a very large leap of faith in believing that our government is filled with people that should be trusted?

[Binky]

Our forefathers did not write the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written in 1892 to help a company sell flags to schools. Those flag selling efforts were tied to Columbus Day, the first holiday of the new school year. 60 years later the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization, rewrote the pledge to include the phrase “under God”. Then in 1954 Dwight Eisenhower who ironically was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness signed a joint resolution of Congress changing the pledge to include “under God”.

Reverend Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. He wrote extensively about how he came up with the pledge including words that he decided not to use and never once did he consider the phrase “under God”. Such an addition would have been considered by non-Catholics to be sacrilegious.

The Pledge of Allegiance was never about religion. It was and is about country.


Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[Binky]

Sometimes I feel like you write a response to a post without ever really reading what you are responding to. The pledge was not written by our forefathers, phone mistress has gracefully written down the history of the pledge for you, twice so far. now oneof them was after this post, so if you still do not understand the point we are making after you read down the line a bit. Then I dont really know what to say at that point.

But you are right, we should not say anything about other poeople's beliefs, which is why prayer in school and having church intermingled with government is a bad idea. Because it forces people to act on beliefs they don't hold.


Apparently I missed the first one. I stand corrected.

[SeedyROM]

The problem and concern that I have with the pledge is how it's used to manipulate beliefs and politics.

George H. W. Bush once said "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Our forefathers made it clear that religion and government should be very separate and that means that pledging an allegiance to the country should be very separate then pledging to a religion.

Our forefathers wrote about "Nature's God" which is from a non-christian belief.

If people were smart enough, open minded enough and educated enough to understand that the phrase "One nation under God" was put in there during the Cold War to push a new form of Fascism to help separate us from The Communist movement (we believe in God/they do not) then it would not be an issue.

However, people are not. Political leaders will want to use it to separate our population and control it. Bush's (a man that I respect) are a perfect example of that. Binky's beliefs that our fonding fathers had anything to do with the pledge is another. Hog's use of it to spread hate is another.

In this thread alone we can find numerous examples of how combining religion and government are not promoting the real building blocks of this nation.

If no one tried to use the pledge to seperate, control or anger the population then I'd be all for it but clearly it's being used for those purposes.

That's the one of the problems, we are being separated into groups with minorities saber rattling the change. Not just people from other nations but the minority of American born atheist people who want to break down and erase something that is more important than a so called cold war mantra.

They will not stop with "In God We Trust" that's the first step. As I said before, the color of money will be a reminder of the In God We Trust, so color change could be next. And for whom, people who can't get along and accept our world as it is.

We are a christian nation. Foreigners and athiests are welcome to leave, get a debit card or accept the fact that the majority rule. The media and our politicians are dividing us. Hannity might be an arrogant lieing arse, but I can't disagree with him on the currency issue, occassionally he's right. Its rare though. I watch Foxnews at times to know what those douchebags are pushing next.

[Binky]

It's just a phrase we accept. Accepting or spending money in no way imposes religion on anyone. If these people are offended at the words, maybe they could just ignore the words. Instead they bring in the church and state into an argument they'll never win because the majority rule.

But do the majority require laws or even rules that everyone go to church?

Do the majority require everyone read the Bible or at least keep one at home?

Tell'em to use debit and credit cards...........problem solved. We're going into a cash free system of plastic as is.

No law requires these people to live here or use our currency. They choose to be here so they'll get over it. Let them cry, I don't care! :thumbsup:

These groups impose a change but they refuse to change themselves.



Thank you Seedy. That's the way I feel. There are always going to be people who piss, whine and bitch. And some of them can't exist without bitching about something. That's what defines them.

[SeedyROM]

Thank you Seedy. That's the way I feel. There are always going to be people who piss, whine and bitch. And some of them can't exist without bitching about something. That's what defines them.

Your welcome. Some folks want to give into the winers desires rather than take a stand. We can't give them an inch. One day these people will want to burn all the Bibles and the sympathizers will drink thier Starbucks and say I agree! :lmao2:

[Binky]

Your welcome. Some folks want to give into the winers desires rather than take a stand. We can't give them an inch. One day these people will want to burn all the Bibles and the sympathizers will drink thier Starbucks and say I agree! :lmao2:



Well, we've given into a lot of them already and that's created part of the problems we see today.

[Hog Trash]

Without a trial how do you know (beyond any reasonable doubt) that this man was our enemy?

Aren't you making a very large leap of faith in believing that our government is filled with people that should be trusted?
The hatred required to do what was done to this lowlife indicates there was probably a smoking gun.

You and I weren't there.

If I must choose between the word of the American military or a cowardly baby murderer, I choose America.

Hands down, every time.

To be honest, I'm not even sure I believe the validity of the charges.

Sounds a lot like America hating, liberal contrived bullshit lies, cooked up for shock value.

The 60's gave rise to lowlife bottom feeders like you.

You are the problem, not the solution. You are a disgusting human being.

The world would be a better place without you and your kind.

I do not say this in anger. I actualy believe it to be true.

[Mr, gone]

Hog,

My point being that your hypocrisy of pretending to be open to all the evidence is bullshit - if you see all Gitmo prisoners as guilty before even being allowed a trial.

And then you have the balls to spout off and openly desire each and every one of them to be tortured!!!
(causing suffering that ultimately leads to dead IS torture)...

Shit, I hope that if I'm ever charged of a crime that your predudiced and narrow minded ass is not sitting on the jury.

Get it??? :banghead: