Is China Successful?

[Moby]

Here's a communist nation that is responsible for 20% of the World's population.

The most common language on earth is Cantonese.

They own an estimated 12% of US National Debt.

Most American and European homes are filled with Chinese goods.

They have 4 times more people then the USA.

They are graduating 10 times more scientist and mathematicians then the USA (this is from memory so don't hold me to it too closely).

It's hard to even say that the USA can fight it's own wars without borrowing money from China any more.


Here's a Communist country that in many ways is the opposite of The American Way Of Life yet in the past 7.5 years has seen amazing growth and prosperity that has far out paced the USA in almost every way.

Can we consider China a successful country?

Will this Communist country become the Super Power this century?

[oneway]

Please move there. You'll work 18 hours of hard labor a day and split a bowl of rice six ways as your only meal. What an asshole!!!!!

[PhoneMistress]

Last Friday Bill Moyers interviewed Peter Pan (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08222008/profile2.html) who just released a new book Out of Mao's Shadow. Pan said something interesting about China not thinking of themselves as communists but some hodgepodge to catapult themselves to true communism.

It sounded better when Pan said it.

What are the standards to measure the success of a country? Most of what has been cited deals more with the size of China's population. I don't see the connection between China's government and success, philosophy and success or moral fortitude and success.

[Hog Trash]

Communism is a proven failed system that no one has ever been able to make work until America stepped in and made it work for the Chinese.

If our own government would work for us just imagine how prosperous we could be here in America......Maybe their saving us for last.

[Binky]

Please move there. You'll work 18 hours of hard labor a day and split a bowl of rice six ways as your only meal. What an asshole!!!!!


You know, I don't understand why you would call SM an asshole. He has only stated the facts and nowhere are there any of his own personal opinions.

The facts are the facts. They are what they are. And the fact is that you are rude, crude and a jerk.

[disrupter]

success is a word loaded with a panoply of alternate definitions.

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask people what their definition of success [for a nation/society?] was first?

Roughly speaking isn't China an authoritarian state employing capitalism economics?

Democracy is a communal, ie. communist, collective form of decision making.
Republic is a one[more?]-step-removed form of democracy.

Democracy is more organically communal than a central-planning authority.
Stalin had an authoritarian state with the party hierarchy commanding it.
The 'Party' itself was NON-communistic. ie. inorganic.

Community [Communal] values arise internally from the community, they are not imposed from outside.

Real communism is not some manufactured uniform monotony,
it is probably very rich & organic & somewhat variable from locality to locality.

Is it possible Marx was trying to impose some kind of alternate form of capitalism? or industrialism? robotism?

Communites are organic, based on pre-existing conditions/circumstances.
Communities have internal structures in many [most?] cases.
It isn't some central tower surrounded by some infinite flat uniformity.

Communities are also made up of a quasi-congregation of individuals,

not automatons.

they usually include a cast of characters, almost never identical.

Marx sort of adopted the 'robot' notion the capitalists wanted.
Wasn't it more industrial rather than communistic?

Communism becomes much more palatable when you don't have to be an identical robot.

But don't let people learn the truth.
like about Jewish Kibbutzes.

Setting of perceptions can be a very powerful tool.

Corporate capitalists are the ones who want unquestioning slave robots.
A vast tower surrounded by an infinite flat plane of serf/slaves, electronic or biological.

Basically a banal nightmare.

[disrupter]

A natural community is an unraped, natural cast of various characters who interact in many complex ways.

The industrialized [militarized] central state, whether you call it communism or capitalism is something that sort of rapes that pre-existing community & sucks all the life & vitality out of it.

sometimes the initial sugary lies sound sweet & good,
but they will poison your community over the long run.

[luciano]

Sure they are, look at them move all this coal with steam engines, smell that clean air.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/luciano27_bucket/china1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/luciano27_bucket/China2.jpg

[Moby]

You know, I don't understand why you would call SM an asshole. He has only stated the facts and nowhere are there any of his own personal opinions.

The facts are the facts. They are what they are. And the fact is that you are rude, crude and a jerk.
Because the programming can't handle facts so the media teaches the programmed to take an emotional response instead of rational discussion.

[Mr, gone]

Uncontrolled Capitalism is the devil's wet dream...

[Binky]

Because the programming can't handle facts so the media teaches the programmed to take an emotional response instead of rational discussion.



There seems to be more programmed thinkers than free thinkers, these days. It would be a novel concept if people actually opened up their itty bitty minds and thought for themselves for a change. WoW! There's a change for ya.

[disrupter]

As long as we are all blindly proud of whatever crimes the USA may be guilty of?

Binky, you are a bit inconsistent.

Your mental frame of reference is so flexible it is hard to call it that.

[Smurf-Herder]

Here's a communist nation that is responsible for 20% of the World's population.

The most common language on earth is Cantonese.

They own an estimated 12% of US National Debt.

Most American and European homes are filled with Chinese goods.

They have 4 times more people then the USA.

They are graduating 10 times more scientist and mathematicians then the USA (this is from memory so don't hold me to it too closely).

It's hard to even say that the USA can fight it's own wars without borrowing money from China any more.


Here's a Communist country that in many ways is the opposite of The American Way Of Life yet in the past 7.5 years has seen amazing growth and prosperity that has far out paced the USA in almost every way.

Can we consider China a successful country?

Will this Communist country become the Super Power this century?


China is extremely successful - depending on how you measure success.

As a "power" they're very efficient at growth and influence. And the military is expanding and advancing.

As a "citizen" of China, I guess the monetary rewards could buy my loss of freedom of information and speech. Depending on where I was in the order of things.

Example: Tienemen Square. A similar situation in the future is not impossible, even now. The news and Internet are censored. If I lived in Tibet, forget it.

Another example: I saw a news story a while back, about people brought to work on building the Olympic stadium. They were promised payment at the end of a year, while working in unsafe conditions and room & meals; then most never saw any money ....... some after traveling halfway acorss the country for this work.

China is hard on it's population, as a gargantuan authoritarian regime.

China is just hanging low, while we get wasted over time, by Iran, North Korea and Russia. They're willing to take the smartest path, I believe; and just get big and watch everybody else wear themselves down on each other.