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Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 08:38 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4275914n&channel=/sections/ftn/videoplayer3460.shtml

I have felt this since 2001 when we stopped chasing bin laden into Pakistan.

I hope if he is elected he means this.

Smurf-Herder
07-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Getting Bin Laden is not going to stop terrorism - only stop the plans he directly is involved in. Which I don't believe involved any of the foiled terrorist plots since 911.

Independent Harry
07-20-2008, 08:53 PM
Getting Bin Laden is not going to stop terrorism - only stop the plans he directly is involved in. Which I don't believe involved any of the foiled terrorist plots since 911.

So you think we should just walk away from the leader of the group that propogated 911? You really have bought the hook, line and sinker...

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 08:54 PM
Getting Bin Laden is not going to stop terrorism - only stop the plans he directly is involved in. Which I don't believe involved any of the foiled terrorist plots since 911.

NO NO NO not the point Pakistan is the answer.
bin laden thats just sport.

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 09:00 PM
So you think we should just walk away from the leader of the group that propogated 911? You really have bought the hook, line and sinker...

If you seen any posts of mine on this subject I strongly believe Pakistan is the source of most of terrorist ability to recruit and train. As far as a Obama supporter, not sure he still scares me with the rest of the package. But I like it when I see something I have been ranting about to any who would listen have some agreement.

Moby
07-20-2008, 09:04 PM
I agre with you as I've always felt that the timing of Iraq was to win the 2004 election and I started saying that in early 2002. We have to remember that Bush has or at least had financial ties with the Bin Laden family and that both his families have mutual friends in the Saudi Government. I think deals were made that didn't favor the US like removing our troops from Saudi Arabia.

Afghanistan needs to be won and the poppies need to burned. Al-Queda is getting stronger, the Saudi's are getting richer and America is losing economic strength. It's been a really bad 8 years and I think that we've spent more time giving into to the Al-Queda leaders then we have actually hunting them down.

Moby
07-20-2008, 09:06 PM
Getting Bin Laden is not going to stop terrorism - only stop the plans he directly is involved in. Which I don't believe involved any of the foiled terrorist plots since 911.
A little fact for you.

None of the 9/11 terrorists were from Iraq. Most of them were Saudi, trained in Afghanistan and for the most part seemed to move freely between the Stans.

I know that you know this but sometimes people need to be reminded.

Smurf-Herder
07-20-2008, 09:12 PM
A little fact for you.

None of the 9/11 terrorists were from Iraq. Most of them were Saudi, trained in Afghanistan and for the most part seemed to move freely between the Stans.

I know that you know this but sometimes people need to be reminded.


But this isn't about Iraq. It's about terrorism, wherever the terrorists are.

That's why we've had air strikes in Somalia.

Smurf-Herder
07-20-2008, 09:15 PM
NO NO NO not the point Pakistan is the answer.
bin laden thats just sport.

And don't you think there's an added danger there?

A country with 160 million people, who at least half hate the West; and possess a fully functional nuclear arsenal.

I mean, aren't we talking about a potential war (or civil war) that would make Iraq look like Grenada, in comparison?

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 09:22 PM
And don't you think there's an added danger there?

A country with 160 million people, who at least half hate the West; and possess a fully functional nuclear arsenal.

I mean, aren't we talking about a potential war (or civil war) that would make Iraq look like Grenada, in comparison?

Your absolutly right it is dangerous. But this is the head of the snake.
This crap will never end until we deal with it.
You have to remember they have an enemy of long duration India, who is also nuclear and much more powerful next door.
War is always scary but if you want it over we have to address it where it lives. Damn we should have done this 7 years ago!!!

Smurf-Herder
07-20-2008, 09:32 PM
Your absolutly right it is dangerous. But this is the head of the snake.
This crap will never end until we deal with it.
You have to remember they have an enemy of long duration India, who is also nuclear and much more powerful next door.
War is always scary but if you want it over we have to address it where it lives. Damn we should have done this 7 years ago!!!

What exactly would we be doing, though?

And BTW, India has already stated that if Pakistan became unstable, they would be hit with a pre-emptive nuclear strike; for fear of lose nukes falling into extremist hands. And China is an ally of Pakistan. So we better be very careful about how we do whatever we do.

I've already said that Pakistan is the key to Afghanistan (and along that line, terrorism in general). But we have to be damned careful about dealing with it.

kres24GT
07-20-2008, 09:38 PM
There is no solution to terrorism, it will always exist.

Our best bet to get rid of the Muslim extremists is to become energy independent and then let the savages kill themselves off when we no longer need them.

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 09:44 PM
What exactly would we be doing, though?

And BTW, India has already stated that if Pakistan became unstable, they would be hit with a pre-emptive nuclear strike; for fear of lose nukes falling into extremist hands. And China is an ally of Pakistan. So we better be very careful about how we do whatever we do.

I've already said that Pakistan is the key to Afghanistan (and along that line, terrorism in general). But we have to be damned careful about dealing with it.

Again I agree.
I believe there is a factor that moderates the situation more than appears on the surface.
China is a communist nation that has adopted capitalism to pull itself out of poverty. India is feeling the benefits of globalization and its bounty.
Pakistan is the black sheep of the family over there. They are the source that would ruin everything thats being achieved by those new players in the world markets.
With that in mind we have to be cautiously agressive as we can.
I dont want my grandchildrens children dealing with this crap in their lives.
If we want this over, now is the time it wont go away, we cant wish it away these guys are patient and dieing is a promotion to them.

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 09:47 PM
There is no solution to terrorism, it will always exist.

Our best bet to get rid of the Muslim extremists is to become energy independent and then let the savages kill themselves off when we no longer need them.
Cant do that, I wish it were true.
We cant build a fence high enough for that to happen

Smurf-Herder
07-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Again I agree.
I believe there is a factor that moderates the situation more than appears on the surface.
China is a communist nation that has adopted capitalism to pull itself out of poverty. India is feeling the benefits of globalization and its bounty.
Pakistan is the black sheep of the family over there. They are the source that would ruin everything thats being achieved by those new players in the world markets.
With that in mind we have to be cautiously agressive as we can.
I dont want my grandchildrens children dealing with this crap in their lives.
If we want this over, now is the time it wont go away, we cant wish it away these guys are patient and dieing is a promotion to them.


What it comes down to is, elements in the Pakistani military and intelligence are training, arming and supporting Taliban and Al-Qaeda elements; and the people in power that we think we can trust are too scared to go after them too hard, for fear of being overthrown by popular uprising.

Pakistan has basically lost control of their own country. And the new coalition government is even weaker that when Musharraf was running everything on his own. If it all boils down to a fear of civil unrest turning into civil war, I don't know what the solution might involve.

Dale escondido
07-20-2008, 10:10 PM
What it comes down to is, elements in the Pakistani military and intelligence are training, arming and supporting Taliban and Al-Qaeda elements; and the people in power that we think we can trust are too scared to go after them too hard, for fear of being overthrown by popular uprising.

Pakistan has basically lost control of their own country. And the new coalition government is even weaker that when Musharraf was running everything on his own. If it all boils down to a fear of civil unrest turning into civil war, I don't know what the solution might involve.

Smurf as usual your accurate.
This is part of the world where feudal society still exists .
Since I sure dont want us to attempt nation building there IMO we have to be the biggest dog on the block.
This is what they understand sadly and the elements there will follow the strenght. Why do you think Sadam was able to control Iraq? They wet themselves when his car approached.
You cant give these guys a hug and make it better. They only understand and respect or fear strenght.

Dale escondido
07-21-2008, 10:09 PM
No liberal support on this thread.
I think hes got this one right.
Maybe hes finally stubbed his toe and scared the left a little.

Frankg
07-21-2008, 10:25 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4275914n&channel=/sections/ftn/videoplayer3460.shtml

I have felt this since 2001 when we stopped chasing bin laden into Pakistan.

I hope if he is elected he means this.

Dale

Can you explain how putting more troops in Afganistan is going to help when Osama Bin Laden is in the tribal regions of Pakistan , where American troops are forbidden to go ?

Moby
07-21-2008, 11:49 PM
Dale

Can you explain how putting more troops in Afganistan is going to help when Osama Bin Laden is in the tribal regions of Pakistan , where American troops are forbidden to go ?
From what I've been reading the poppy business is booming in Afghanistan and is run by The Taliban. removing Taliban control and destroying the poppy fields should be a major quest since it would take away huge sums of money from the terrorist. As far as I know this is their major source of income.

There's also some talk about Bin Laden Al-Queda moving between the Stans. I don't know if it's true but taking control of at least one region might limit the movement of the Taliban and make them easier to weed out.

It's difficult to know if Musharraf even wanted to find Bin Laden since he was getting lots of money for not finding him. I haven't studied the new leadership.

Dale escondido
07-22-2008, 05:19 AM
Dale

Can you explain how putting more troops in Afganistan is going to help when Osama Bin Laden is in the tribal regions of Pakistan , where American troops are forbidden to go ?
If you every want an end to this mess Pakistan is the answer.
We have made commitments to Afghanistan and if we dont try to nation build just help out a little, we should get good results easily.
This northern area of Pakistan has been a safe haven and training area for every terrorist org. even those that have nothing to do with or wanting to harm us. It just out of any nations control.
So we sit on the border and watch this happen and say we cant offend an ally like Pakistan. This ally we pay supports and perpetuates violence around the globe. Didnt Bush say something about harboring terrorists?
Well if hes capable of reading a map any 10 year old can show him where they are.
If you listen to Obama, he lays out a reasonable approach to this senerio here.
His lackof support of the surge and denial of its benefits does make me wonder if he really would take the fight anywhere.
But this is the second time I strongly agree with him,as I would not have gone into Iraq in the first.

Dale escondido
07-22-2008, 05:31 AM
From what I've been reading the poppy business is booming in Afghanistan and is run by The Taliban. removing Taliban control and destroying the poppy fields should be a major quest since it would take away huge sums of money from the terrorist. As far as I know this is their major source of income.

There's also some talk about Bin Laden Al-Queda moving between the Stans. I don't know if it's true but taking control of at least one region might limit the movement of the Taliban and make them easier to weed out.

It's difficult to know if Musharraf even wanted to find Bin Laden since he was getting lots of money for not finding him. I haven't studied the new leadership.
We loved the taliban when they were fighting the Russians and they were destroying the drug trade there also. We won twice.
Now look at where we are with them.
I am tired of playing with these fools and trying to resolve their interests for our interests.
We need short intense responses and quick departure until they have had enough.
If you study the history of these struggles between all these groups, including turks armenians croats serbs suni shia orthodox christians and catholic in this part of the world you get the same situation every 25-50 years.
Let them work it out, like that will every happen.
But when we get involved stop pussy-footing around and get out asap.