Happy Solstice

[Linkster]

"winter solstice was the night that the Great Mother Goddess gave birth to the new sun, restarting the cycle of the seasons. It is also called Yule, the day a huge log - the Yule Log - is added to a bonfire, around which everyone would dance and sing to awaken the sun from its long winter sleep. In Roman times, it became the celebrations honouring Saturnus (the harvest god) and Mithras (the ancient god of light), a form of sun worship that had come to Rome from Syria a century before with the cult of Sol Invictus. It announced that winter is not forever, that life continues, and an invitation to stay in good spirit"

It also was NOT Jesus' date of birth as that was in the later spring - somewhere around 325ad - Constantine declared his birthday would be celebrated on the 25th of Dec to try to lessen the importance of older Pagan tradition - Aurelian had declared the 25th as the birth of the Sun a hundred years earlier

[SirMoby]

Lies! That's all lies!

I'm going to have some Christian family values group boycott you! :)

[exarmyranger]

Being of Celtic decent (father)and native american(mother,sioux)my personel opinion is,if an open minded person studied Celtic ritual's,native american ritual's,along with the bible.they would find many simalarity's concerning creation,justice,the infinate struggle between good and evil,ect.The main difference is that celt's and N/A's do not need(did not try) to convert other's to worship,believe,or celebrate in the same way as them.The Catholic Church (The Jesuits in paticular)IN it's quest to save the heathen soul's(even if it kill's them...which they had no problem's,or qualm's with) I hold no malice toward the church,but I do hold it in contempt!Eminent Domain my ass!!!ex

[Linkster]

Sir Moby LOL - next time we're in Vegas Im gonna have to buy you a few extra drinks :)

exarmyranger - the bain of existence in my eyes has always been the ramming of religion down someones throat - although it is interesting that most of the religions all started out with basically the same precepts - I noticed the other day during some reading that up until the time of Abraham (if you believe in that kinda stuff) - the Jews, Christians(or what became them) and the Muslims all agreed on the basic history - after that point is where they started diverging
I think based on archeological evidence thats been uncovered recently, that whatever king happened to need a little extra power over their subjects (or some extra tax money) seemed to invent some religious stories that fit within their framework to make them a little more powerful hold
I wish we could find more information on the original Celtic and Pagan communities as I think there is some great stuff still to be understood about our roots :)

[exarmyranger]

Sir Moby LOL - next time we're in Vegas Im gonna have to buy you a few extra drinks :)

exarmyranger - the bain of existence in my eyes has always been the ramming of religion down someones throat - although it is interesting that most of the religions all started out with basically the same precepts - I noticed the other day during some reading that up until the time of Abraham (if you believe in that kinda stuff) - the Jews, Christians(or what became them) and the Muslims all agreed on the basic history - after that point is where they started diverging
I think based on archeological evidence thats been uncovered recently, that whatever king happened to need a little extra power over their subjects (or some extra tax money) seemed to invent some religious stories that fit within their framework to make them a little more powerful hold
I wish we could find more information on the original Celtic and Pagan communities as I think there is some great stuff still to be understood about our roots :)10/4 that Linkster,I concur 100%.Being agnostic I'd like nothing more than to have any discovery(s)that offer's proof of God's exsistance,or nonexsistance.Although at this stage of life,whether God exsist's or not,would'nt change my sence of right&wrong,I do not,or will not "love My Neighbor",honer the sabeth,ect.unless I chose to do so of my own free will.The threat of "eternal damnation" tend's to piss me off,not that the ten comandment's,are'nt a wise list to follow.I just have a problem being "comanded",to do or not do,anything!As I have been there,and done that.Oh yeah,what could cuase the cancelation of Easter celebration's?Well,one thing is if somebody find's the body...ex

[Linkster]

Well - that resurrection theme has been around a lot longer than christ - it was just molded to fit the christian theme of jesus to try not to offend too many pagans of the day:
From Religioustolorence.org:

"Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection."

Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.

Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops."

[exarmyranger]

Well - that resurrection theme has been around a lot longer than christ - it was just molded to fit the christian theme of jesus to try not to offend too many pagans of the day:
From Religioustolorence.org:
Yep,I'm aware...The Muslim bible (turan)is in agreement with the christian bible up to his death on a cross at Calvery.That is where his life story end's, as far as the Turan teaches.no "to be continued"in 3 day's.
"Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection."

Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.

Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops."I have at a friends invitaition,attended a Wiccan umm,gathering,the main theme,or purpose as I saw it was to have sex with as many female members of the sect as possible...ex

[Linkster]

I have at a friends invitaition,attended a Wiccan umm,gathering,the main theme,or purpose as I saw it was to have sex with as many female members of the sect as possible...ex

Hmmm - that musta been one type of Wiccan ceremony I missed - although it does sound awfully consistent with a few other types of "ceremonies" I went to back in the 60s :) (of course then it was not limited to males going after females as the women were out to have just as much fun)

[dareutwo]

Today was 7 seconds longer than yesterday!

[SirMoby]

I think based on archeological evidence thats been uncovered recently, that whatever king happened to need a little extra power over their subjects (or some extra tax money) seemed to invent some religious stories that fit within their framework to make them a little more powerful hold
You mean like "God told me to slaughter and torture people"?

[SirMoby]

I have at a friends invitaition,attended a Wiccan umm,gathering,the main theme,or purpose as I saw it was to have sex with as many female members of the sect as possible...ex
I have a few Wiccan friends. I haven't had any of them. Maybe that's why we're still friends.

[Linkster]

Sir Moby - actually the real conversation went like this:

"Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

[exarmyranger]

I have a few Wiccan friends. I haven't had any of them. Maybe that's why we're still friends.As for female's be they wiccan,or not...If/or as long as she is single,attractive,past the age of consent(quite past these day's)and enjoy's sex.I prefer to explore our sexual compatability,before establishing what like's,dislike's,past and future goal's,want's,need's,ect.Including not replying to any question's that begin with"What do you think"... untill our mutual sexual satisfaction is established.If one or both feel that (for whatever reason) not to continue a sexual relationship,but still would like to be friend's.That's fine,and as for myself,I would rather get the sex question,out of the way before voicing,or listening to philisophical,veiw's...I do know one female who's friendship I value highly,and who's opinion's I respect.(whether I agree or not).We have not had sex. 20yrs.ago when we first met,I was married,so was she.No sex then.Now I'm divorced,she's been Widowed,still no sex though.Reason;Neither of us want's to screw-up a great friendship.I may have grown a hard bark,but under that the meat is still tender...T/C ex.