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radioguy
05-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Recession, Recession, Where's the Recession?
By Larry Elder
Thursday, May 8, 2008


"It's a recession," said former President Harry Truman, "when your neighbor loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours."

For people facing home foreclosure, job loss or the struggle of paying high gas prices, the definition a recession seems immaterial and insignificant. True.

But during an election year, the media's constant use or expectation of "recession" does matter. Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic Party's likely nominee, already considers the U.S. economy "in a recession."

So are we -- at least as economists commonly define the term?

No -- not even close.

But a recent typical news wire story, however, goes like this: "(George W.) Bush's news conference … appeared to be a pre-emptive measure of sorts, as it came a day before the release of statistics on the nation's gross domestic product for January through March. The common definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of declining GDP and many expect Wednesday's report to provide the first official confirmation of a slide."

Well, case closed.

Yes, economists generally define a recession as two or more consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. The National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), the nonpartisan organization the government uses to determine economic cycles, defines a recession as a period of sustained negative economic growth -- with GDP its most important variable.

Have we had a period of "sustained negative economic growth" since the end of the 2001 recession? No.

Last week, the government released two important figures: GDP growth (or lack thereof) for the first quarter of this year, and the number of jobs created (or lack thereof) for the month of April. Now, let's examine the reporting the day before and the day of the released figures.

The day before the released GDP report, a headline in USA Today read, "USA TODAY survey: We're in a recession, economists say." The first two sentences read as follows: "The U.S. economy is in recession, or soon to be in one. … Two-thirds of the 52 economists polled said the U.S. economy is in recession."

This USA Today we're-in-a-recession story showed a graph with the 52 economists' predictions. They (incorrectly) predicted 0.1 percent economic growth for the first quarter, 0.5 percent negative growth for the second, with positive growth for the next four quarters at 2.3, 2.0, 2.2 and 2.6 percent respectively. But they never bothered to show the growth in the last quarter of 2007, while anemic, was still a positive 0.6 percent. In other words, assuming the traditional definition of recession -- back-to-back quarters of negative economic growth -- even USA Today's economic experts were not truly predicting a recession.

The next day, the actual number for this year's first quarter came out.

Oops. USA Today's Web site headline for an Associated Press story read: "Weak 0.6 percent economic growth in Q1 is better than forecast." In English, this means that since the recovery began in Bush's first year in office, we have had zero quarters of negative economic growth, let alone consecutive ones.

Now, on to last week's jobs numbers.

The day before the Labor Department released the numbers, The Associated Press warily wrote: "Investors are predicting another gloomy reading on U.S. employment on Friday. The Labor Department's report is expected to show a 75,000 net loss in jobs for April … and a rise in unemployment to 5.2 percent from 5.1 percent in March." So, what happened?

Oops. In April, the economy lost 20,000 jobs. Nothing to throw a parade about, but far fewer than the economic "experts" predicted. And of unemployment? Well, the rate fell from 5.1 percent to 5.0 percent. This forced The Associated Press to grudgingly concede that, well, maybe things aren't quite as bad as we thought: "The latest snapshot of the nationwide employment conditions -- while clearly still weak -- was better than many economists were anticipating. They were bracing for job cuts of 75,000 and for the unemployment rate to climb to 5.2 percent. The unemployment rate … fell to 5 percent from 5.1 percent in March. That survey showed more people finding employment than those who didn't."

But now, here comes a knuckleball. Since the economic news failed to match the predicted gloominess, The Associated Press moved the goal post. "Under one rough rule," the AP wrote, "if the economy contracts for six straight months it is considered to be in a recession. That didn't happen in the last recession -- in 2001 -- though."

It didn't?

No, the 2001 recession, according to the NBER, did not show two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth -- it had three.

By October of 1992, when President George Herbert Walker Bush ran for re-election against Bill Clinton, the economy was 18 months into a recovery. But as Investor's Business Daily noted, 90 percent of the newspaper stories on the economy were negative. Yet the following month, when Clinton defeated Bush-41, suddenly only 14 percent of economic news stories were negative!

But only a cynic would suggest a liberal media bias. And you know me better than that.

Link (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2008/05/08/recession,_recession,_wheres_the_recession)

I posted this story because it demonstrates how truly biased the liberal media actually is.

They lie and exaggerate economic figures to fit their agenda, and publish economic predictions based on the party in office, not based on the facts.

I'm not saying the economy is "booming", but it certainly isn't as bad as the MSM would have you believe. I watched over the last 4 years as the liberal media downplayed the American economy, when it was breaking records. I watched as the media broadcasted story after story of how economic doom was looming just around the corner, and never came.

The media needs to start reporting the facts based on the facts, not on their obvious liberal agenda.

Moby
05-08-2008, 04:26 PM
Don't you read any news sources? Do you just stick with the lines from the Heritage Foundation?

You've already proven that you don't understand the economic signals. Now stop posting other people's thoughts. We already know you don't understand these things.

radioguy
05-08-2008, 04:51 PM
Don't you read any news sources? Do you just stick with the lines from the Heritage Foundation?

You've already proven that you don't understand the economic signals. Now stop posting other people's thoughts. We already know you don't understand these things.

If I'm as stupid and uneducated as you proclaim oh "programmed" one, then why is it you only reply to my threads with insults, or attempts to change the subject?

Check your liberal talking points and get back to me.

asroc
05-08-2008, 08:04 PM
actual information found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_crisis_of_2008

radioguy
05-08-2008, 08:25 PM
This from that Wikipedia page:

Recession dispute
A recession is defined as negative economic growth at least two quarters in a row. According to numbers published by Bureau of Economic Analysis the GDP of the last two quarters was positive meaning the U.S. economy is not in a recession. However this estimate has been disputed by some analysts who argue that if numbers for inflation given by the Federal Reserve or Bureau of Labor Statistics are applied the GDP would have been negative for the past two quarters, making it a technical recession.

I love it... You libs are something else. This reminds me of the 2004 election. When the figures don't match the liberals propaganda, they either dispute the methodology used, or they come up with new ways to measure things. In 2004, the unemployment rate was abandoned by the liberal media because it didn't produce the negative results they were looking for. They instead chose to embrace "jobs created" because it achieved the negative shit they were so desperately looking for. Now we have liberals disputing the methodology that's been use my entire lifetime to determine if our economy is in a recession, because it isn't working in their favor. Hell, another example is the 2000 election dispute, when democrats didn't like the results of Florida, they attempted to change the election rules after the fact.

To say liberalism relies on dishonesty, is a fricking understatement.


Causes
Numerous factors have been cited for the crisis including record oil prices and the historic weakness of the US dollar. Oil and gold hit historic highs while the US dollar sank to a historic low on Wednesday, February 27, 2008. (Gold prices broke the $1,000/ounce barrier on March 13, 2008.)

Other factors including the subprime mortgage crisis and the stock market downturn have all helped push the US into an economic crisis. Subprime mortage crisis has caused panic in financial markets and encouraged investors to take their money out of risky mortgage bonds and shaky equities and put it into commodities as "stores of value". Most of the recent increases in global food prices have been the result of speculation and the collapse in the value of the US dollar.

For the first time in history, many believe that the underlying reason of the economic problems is an environmental sustainability crisis, mostly due to commodities costs rising at their fastest rate in years. Unprecedented demand from China and India, which has never been seen before in history, have caused the prices of finite resources to soar, as well as their depletion rates to increase. Many see this as a much more imminent threat than global warming despite the publicity of the latter.

I understand and accept that these are all causes of the economic downturn we are experiencing.

I know this is a bit off topic, but what I want to know is, what's Obama's solution?

So far, everything I've heard him propose, will only make matters worse.

Independent Harry
05-08-2008, 11:51 PM
You know grim, when the govenrment pumps billions of dollars of newly printed money into the economy, its kinda hard to have down economic growth. Once they stop that practice, you can bet the economy will slide.

Irrp
05-09-2008, 01:00 AM
You know grim, when the govenrment pumps billions of dollars of newly printed money into the economy, its kinda hard to have down economic growth. Once they stop that practice, you can bet the economy will slide.

This has been going on for 15 years, I guess we have been in recession for 15 years?:disbelief:

Moby
05-09-2008, 02:34 AM
If I'm as stupid and uneducated as you proclaim oh "programmed" one, then why is it you only reply to my threads with insults, or attempts to change the subject?

Check your liberal talking points and get back to me.
As I've been asking from you for quite some time. Post some numbers to support thoughts. Stop posting the thoughts of your masters and post your own numbers.

I've done this a few times already and you've never responded to anything.

Please. Support YOUR OWN THOUGHTS :lmao2: :taunt: :lmao2:

Moby
05-09-2008, 02:36 AM
This has been going on for 15 years, I guess we have been in recession for 15 years?:disbelief:
Actually it hasn't. You should check your numbers.

If you're smart then you know of a major difference between the massive borrowing of Reagan (25 years ago) and the massive borrowing of Bush. Do you know the major difference? :taunt: :p

Cat slave
05-09-2008, 03:07 AM
Well, if we are not in deep **** with skyrocketing food, energy and wimpy
dollar, does that mean that we have to suffer for 2-3 quarters to have it
recognized?

I was watching some numbers on the crawler tonight, more and more job
losses yet applications for unemployment are down? Fuzzy math at it its
best.:mad:

asroc
05-09-2008, 11:57 AM
grim why take pasting a wikipedia page as an argument? did i even make an argument with it?

anyway, would you guys like some of these euros i have? they cost a buck sixty each.

LadyMod at scam.com
05-09-2008, 12:28 PM
anyway, would you guys like some of these euros i have? they cost a buck sixty each.

Ooooo, salt in the wound...


:banghead:

Cat slave
05-09-2008, 02:53 PM
This has been going on for 15 years, I guess we have been in recession for 15 years?:disbelief:



......"the chickens have come home to roost".......oops, someone else has used
that line....sorry, nail me for plagiarism!:lmao2: