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LadyMod at scam.com
05-03-2008, 09:48 PM
Interesting....


McCain’s Pastors: Same Questions, Different Answer (http://elections.foxnews.com/category/top-story/)

http://elections.foxnews.com/files/2008/05/mccain_desmoines1.jpg

If turnabout is fair play, then John McCain critics believe his association with controversial pastors should be held to the same scrutiny as Barack Obama’s ties to Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

After all, they point out, one of McCain’s religious supporters, John Hagee, called the Roman Catholic Church “the great whore.”

Another, Rod Parsley, referred to Islam as a “false religion” that America was called on to destroy.

Still, when McCain’s link to both men came to light, the backlash was negligible compared with the furor Obama has faced for nearly two months over his relationship with Wright, his former pastor.

“McCain got a bit of a pass on that,” Democratic strategist Bob Beckel said.

Political analysts and the McCain campaign say it was the difference in his relationships with those pastors — more than the news media’s decision to use kid gloves — that spared him the kind of public trial Obama endured.

Hagee and Parsley are just supporters, McCain’s campaign points out. Obama’s relationship is personal, with Wright having officiated at the candidate’s wedding and baptized his two children.

“I didn’t attend Pastor Hagee’s church for 20 years,” McCain said last week, taking a shot at Obama. “There’s a great deal of difference in my view between someone who endorses you and other circumstances.”

But while Obama has repeatedly moved to reject and denounce such supporters, McCain will only go so far. And critics warn the issue could come back to hurt him.

Trouble Ahead?

“Obama may have a spring problem with Wright, but McCain’s gonna have a fall problem with the right,” Beckel told FOXNews.com.

Beckel said McCain’s move to cozy up to the religious right after famously calling televangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell “agents of intolerance” is Democratic fodder.

“It’s an exploitable point for the Democrats and they’re going to take it,” he said.

MoveOn.org, which is supporting Obama, has already listed the Parsley/Hagee connection on an online flier blasting McCain. The list claims McCain is courting “the extreme religious right,” and the flier is a sign MoveOn could make hay out of that link come November.

The Democratic National Committee also has tried to make an issue out of the connection.

Media analyst and American University professor Jane Hall said if guilt-by-association is the game that’s going to be played this election year, then McCain should get his due.

“I just think if we’re going to crucify people over who they might have been associated with then let’s go over … John McCain and whatever ministers John McCain is supported by,” she said.

McCain has not outright rejected either pastor supporter (though he has repudiated backers he felt took cheap shots at Obama).

The New York Times made this point in an editorial after Obama lashed out at Wright for his remarks to the National Press Club on Monday.

“Senator John McCain has continued to embrace a prominent white supporter, Pastor John Hagee, whose bigotry matches that of Mr. Wright,” the editorial said.

Pastor Problems

Bigotry is in the eye of the beholder, but each of these three pastors has put a religious or ethnic group in the crosshairs, angering many. Wright targeted white America. Hagee went after Catholics. Parsley went after Muslims.

– Hagee, a televangelist and leader of San Antonio’s massive Cornerstone Church, has suggested the Roman Catholic Church is “the great whore” and a “false cult system” and “the apostate church.” Hagee says his remarks have been mischaracterized, but has frequently attempted to link the Roman Catholic Church to the rise of the Nazis.

In his book “Jerusalem Countdown,” Hagee writes that history proves Adolf Hitler and the Catholic Church were linked “in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.”

He also said Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for the sins — specifically homosexual sins — of New Orleans residents.

– Parsley, leader of the World Harvest Church in Columbus, Ohio, has described the conflict with the Middle East as a historic spiritual battle.

In his book, “Silent No More,” he writes that America was called upon to destroy Islam.

One YouTube video shows him telling Americans to “man your battle stations, ready your weapons, lock and load.”

Another shows him repeating the words from his book: “America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed.”

– Wright, who earlier this year retired as head pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, became known for about a half-dozen fiery sound bites that surged across the Internet.

He said “God damn America” in one of his sermons, and called his country the “U.S. of KKK-A.”

Wright has pushed conspiracy theories, including the claim that the government invented HIV to destroy black people. He cast the country as institutionally racist and was dismissive of Hillary Clinton’s candidacy because, he said, she doesn’t know what it’s like to be called a “n****r.”

Wright has also suggested the United States brought the Sept. 11 attacks on itself for some of its foreign policy actions.

Under Pressure

A few liberal media outlets have tried to tackle the McCain pastor issue. Mother Jones magazine wrote a critical article on Parsley in March, while The Huffington Post published a flashback of Hagee’s controversial remarks shortly after he endorsed McCain.

Columbia Journalism Review published two essays in March complaining that the pastors were getting a free pass.

The McCain campaign rejects comparisons between Wright and his pastor supporters, but the Arizona senator did bow to pressure all the same to repudiate controversial comments.

Hagee first endorsed him Feb. 27. McCain, after initially defending the support, said he would “repudiate” Hagee’s anti-Catholic statements.

The uproar came around the same time Obama was pressured to “reject” the support of Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan at a debate.

McCain later told ABC News it “probably” was a mistake to seek the endorsement, but he was still “glad” to have it.

Then when McCain visited New Orleans last week, he repeatedly said Hagee’s comments on Katrina were “nonsense.”

Asked if he would reject the endorsement once and for all, he answered: “I certainly condemn those parts of his remarks. … I repudiate as strongly as possible those remarks (about Katrina) and those (about) the Catholic Church as well.”

As for Parsley, campaign aides said McCain met him for only the first time when he shared the stage with him at a Feb. 26 rally in Cincinnati.

At the time, McCain called him a “moral compass” and “spiritual guide” for America. Parsley told The Columbus Dispatch he supports McCain because he’s tough on national security and would “protect the unborn.”

But a campaign official said attempts to compare Wright to Parsley are “totally absurd,” noting McCain never attended a Parsley service. Aides said McCain was not endorsing Parsley’s views by accepting his endorsement.

A Reuters profile in March of McCain’s actual pastor, Phoenix-based Dan Yeary, described him as a harmless preacher who rarely meddles in political affairs.

Robert Lichter, president of The Center for Media and Public Affairs, said backers like Hagee and Parsley would be more of an issue if McCain were already in a general election battle — but he questioned whether the matter will ever really rise to the surface, especially if Obama wins the primary.

“Obama will be faced with the tactical question, do you fight fire with fire, or do you worry that this will just make your fire burn brighter?” he said.

Lichter said no matter what his rivals do, McCain enjoys the fact that he’s a known commodity, while Obama is still being “defined.”

“McCain has been around for a long time, everyone knows what his views are,” he said. “The reason Wright is news is not what he said — it’s basically he’s linked to a candidate who talks about change but hasn’t filled in what that means.”

FOX News’ Mosheh Oinounou and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


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Moby
05-04-2008, 01:09 AM
It's different.

Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and these guys are white, they live in southern states, they support the republican party and they spread hate based on information that is not fact.

Wright is a black man, lives in a northern city, would probably not support the republican party and offered his life as a marine in service to this country (something that most of his critics refused to do).

Can't you see the difference? (Robertson did serve in the military)

Moon is the same as the 3 nut jobs above above but he's not white and is probably the largest donor to any political party in the history of the world if you include all his funding on the Washington Times, which is the leading Neoconservative paper (sorry Rupert).

Again I think the differences are obvious.

It's kind of like the differences with Vitter vs. Spitzer. One guy was an employee of every American, he was using tax payer dollars for the hotel room and he was a republican. The other guy was only employed by citizens in New York and no where else, he wasn't using any money of anyone outside of New York and he was a democrat.

You see the difference?

LadyMod at scam.com
05-04-2008, 09:06 AM
It's different.

Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and these guys are white, they live in southern states, they support the republican party and they spread hate based on information that is not fact.

Wright is a black man, lives in a northern city, would probably not support the republican party and offered his life as a marine in service to this country (something that most of his critics refused to do).

Can't you see the difference? (Robertson did serve in the military)

Moon is the same as the 3 nut jobs above above but he's not white and is probably the largest donor to any political party in the history of the world if you include all his funding on the Washington Times, which is the leading Neoconservative paper (sorry Rupert).

Again I think the differences are obvious.

It's kind of like the differences with Vitter vs. Spitzer. One guy was an employee of every American, he was using tax payer dollars for the hotel room and he was a republican. The other guy was only employed by citizens in New York and no where else, he wasn't using any money of anyone outside of New York and he was a democrat.

You see the difference?

Yep. And for White America being so "liberal" in their treatment to blacks, it kind of looks like it's likely going to boil down to color in Indiana. Even those supporting him sound like RG and his "not the stereotypical kind of black".

I'm a little disgusted in American's lack of progress in this area of human development.

How will race code play out for Obama? (http://www.thestar.com/World/Columnist/article/421225)

Analysts watch closely as Democrats prepare to vote in test-market city called `Middletown'

May 04, 2008 04:30 AM
Tim Harper
Washington Bureau

MUNCIE, Ind.–In the embryonic and frigid days of the Democratic primary race, the story of Barack Obama was all about his transcendence of race, the tale of a potential new era in America where the colour of a man's skin was not a factor.

Now, in the springtime of this race, when Midwestern skies portend summer thunderstorms instead of snowstorms, one has to crack a code to determine whether a black man can really be elected president.

A visitor to this city, known as America's "Middletown" because it so closely hews to the nation's demographics, must listen closely when even voters who say they back Obama point out he "is not really black" and others call him the "mixed race" candidate.

Some will tell you they have no problem with his race, but wonder whether others would really elect a black man. Some ask about his middle name, Hussein.

In life, spring brings a respite from winter's despair. But in this unprecedented saga of a black man's quest for the U.S. presidency, the seasons are reversed: winter providing the promise of a new dawn and spring bringing the dark clouds that now hover over this story.

Not a single soul we spoke to in Muncie said they wouldn't vote for a person because of race.

But not a single soul would deny that race will be a factor among white voters here.

Some said bluntly they would not talk to a reporter about Obama.

"It's time to get over it," said Judy Benken, an Obama supporter who owns the downtown Normandy Flower Shop. But when asked if a black could be elected president, she replied: "He could. He's not really black – he doesn't have those pronounced features.

"He's not ... Oh, I don't want to get into trouble here, but he's not a low-ended, uneducated black person, or white person, so it doesn't matter what colour he is."

There are several factors at play, some unrelated to race or gender, in a contest in which New York senator Hillary Clinton is gaining momentum and Obama is staggering.

If Indiana does indeed help push the Illinois senator over the top with a victory over Clinton in Tuesday's primary, it will say as much about this state and a repudiation of its checkered past as it will about Obama and his lofty ambitions.

If he loses, the race question, which began as a whisper when he lost in Ohio in March and became louder when he lost in Pennsylvania in April, will be out of the bottle.

In Pennsylvania, 15 per cent of white voters said race played a factor in their vote; 33 per cent of black voters said race was a factor.

Muncie, Ind., is divided by rail tracks. Its more upscale north, including Ball State University, is expected to back Obama; its gritty blue-collar south expected to support Clinton.

The south side is also the remnant of a once-proud industrial sector that barely exists these days, supplanted by the north side's university and service industry.

Muncie is 86 per cent white, 11 per cent black. It's a bellwether town where new detergents and toothpaste were marketed in the belief that, if it sells in Muncie, it will sell across the nation.

It has been poked and prodded by sociologists for a century for its demographical allure, most notably a 1920s study entitled Middletown: A Study in Modern American Culture.

It has correctly chosen every president in the past century, except John F. Kennedy in 1960.

But Indiana is also a state in which the Ku Klux Klan once had deep roots, and some say an offshoot of the KKK remains underground here.

Just two years ago, two men built a 2.5-metre-tall wooden cross and set it on fire in front of the Muncie home of a woman with three biracial children.

James Connolly, director of Middletown Studies at Muncie's Ball State, says he wouldn't discount racial concerns among voters here, though it's difficult to quantify.

Some of the votes he sees going to Clinton will be based on support for the senator and the fondly remembered 1990s under her husband, Bill Clinton.

"But race will play a role in some of her votes," Connolly added. "Race tensions in this city are sharp."

He pointed to a heated controversy when the city decided to change the name of a major thoroughfare from Broadway to Martin Luther King Blvd.

"Race has always been a factor in Indiana," said Robert Schmuhl, a professor of American studies at the University of Notre Dame.

"There is historical precedent. Some of the comments you find in Muncie would indicate there are reservations about Obama there and that could be a microcosm of Indiana.

"Tuesday's vote could say something about Indiana. But it also could show the impact of the Jeremiah Wright story because those episodes have brought race to the fore in the minds of some voters."

Obama severed ties with his former pastor after Rev. Wright made a series of incendiary remarks in Washington.

Muncie may still reflect America's demographics, but its Latino population is miniscule.

Verna Gudger, a Puerto Rican who also has roots in Hawaii, will back Obama because she admires the man and his family.

When she arrived here 18 years ago, she said, her family would be amazed when they visited, wondering where all the people of colour were.

"For me, with my personality, I had no problem fitting in, because I'm just kind of, `Here I am, do you like me?' For others, yes, there can be a bit of a problem."

Brandon Mundell, who runs Muncie's thriving Toys Forever hobby store, is a long-time Obama supporter who admires the man's oratorical power.

But he says his hometown is divided not only by the rail tracks but also by race. And he concedes Obama's race could be a factor if he wins the Democratic nomination.

"Anything different, like a black candidate, people will grab a hold of," he said. "But does it make him any less capable of doing his job? No, of course not.

"Race has never been discussed among my friends."

Nobody is sure how Muncie will vote, but some think the dynamics may have been tested in last autumn's mayoral race.

The candidate for change was Republican Sharon McShurley, a north sider running as Muncie's first woman mayoral candidate. The Democrat, Jim Mansfield, is a south sider who promised a return to past prosperity.

The result was so close that it was overturned on a recount and is still under challenge.

.

Smurf-Herder
05-04-2008, 10:36 AM
You can say it's the same when:

Hagee and Parsley preach an anti-American, marxist-based liberation theology that considers the government evil; and McCain attends their churches for 20 years, having them as his most intimate advisors.

BTW, just a note on what Hagee said. Protestants interperating Revelation Chapter 17 as referring to the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon has been standard Fundamentalist Protestant thinking since the 16th century.

Roman Catholic Church
Protestant Reformation

Most Reformation writers and all Reformers themselves, from Martin Luther (who wrote On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church), John Calvin, and John Knox (who wrote The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women) identify the Roman Catholic Church with the Whore of Babylon.[3] This opinion influenced several generations in England and Scotland when it was put into the 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible.

Identification of the Pope as the Antichrist was written into Protestant creeds such as the Westminster Confession of 1646. The identification of the Roman Catholic Church with the Whore of Babylon is kept in the Scofield Reference Bible (whose 1917 edition identified "ecclesiastical Babylon" with "apostate Christendom headed by the Papacy") and pro-Reformation writings such as those of I.M. Haldeman, and it is kept alive by contemporary figures such as Ian Paisley and Jack Chick. The "drunkenness with the blood of saints and martyrs," by this interpretation, refers to the veneration of saints and relics and the Sunday sacredness, which is viewed by Reformers as idolatry and apostasy. Some Protestants commonly used the phrase "Whore of Babylon" to refer to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Protestant reformers were not the first people to call the Roman Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon. There was a fairly long tradition of this kind of name-calling by opponents of the Papacy. Frederick Barbarossa published missives that called the Papacy the Whore of Babylon, and the Pope the Antichrist, during the course of his protracted quarrel with Pope Alexander III. Dante equated the corruption and simony in the office of the Papacy with the Whore of Babylon in Canto 19 of his Inferno:

Di voi pastor s'accorse il Vangelista,
quando colei che siede sopra l'acque
puttaneggiar coi regi a lui fu vista. . .
("Shepherds like you the Evangelist had in mind when he saw the one that sits upon the waters committing fornication with the kings.")

When the Florentine religious reformer Girolamo Savonarola also called the Papacy the Whore of Babylon, he meant something closer to the Reformers' usage; these claims, however, were based chiefly on social and political disagreements with Roman Catholic policy, or, at their strongest, accuse the Papacy of moral corruption. The Protestant reformers, in contrast, seriously considered the Papacy to be at least potentially the apocalyptic figure mentioned in Bible prophecy, and included the claim in Bible commentaries as well as polemics. They meant something more than to accuse the Roman Catholic Church of political or moral corruption; they claimed that, as a church, it taught a Satanic counterfeit plan of salvation, one that would lead its faithful to Hell rather than to Heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon

Moby
05-04-2008, 01:02 PM
I said that they were different and I very clearly posted the differences.

My point is that the white republican hate mongering preachers have always been given a pass. If you can find some examples of Glen Beck, Fox News or Rush being outraged by the white preachers then we might have something to talk about.

Otherwise, just accept the obvious.

disrupter
05-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Wright 'sounds' like a potential threat to white tyranny,
these guys are just irrational white tyrannists.

There are none so blind as those who don't WANT to see the truth.

If only we could sugar coat the truth the way the lies get sugar coated . . . ?

Sugar coated feces,
the favorite food of the right wing wackos.

Smurf-Herder
05-06-2008, 07:36 PM
I said that they were different and I very clearly posted the differences.

My point is that the white republican hate mongering preachers have always been given a pass. If you can find some examples of Glen Beck, Fox News or Rush being outraged by the white preachers then we might have something to talk about.

Otherwise, just accept the obvious.

So the Protestant Reformation was the work of hate mongers?

BTW, some black churches would be included in that group.