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radioguy
04-15-2008, 05:51 PM
The Rich and Their Taxes
By Steven Malanga

One of the most persistent themes in this presidential campaign is that the rich are not only getting richer, but that they are also not paying their fair share of taxes, mostly because of tax cuts that favor the wealthy. We hear this not only from the Democratic candidates, but from the media, and even from some of the rich themselves.

Last week, for instance, the Economic Scene column in The New York Times informed us that our tax code has become more favorable to high income workers--the big winners in the last boom, the column added--and asked rhetorically, “That doesn’t make sense, does it?” Meanwhile, Sen. Hillary Clinton has decried “reckless tax cuts for the rich,” which she says are adding to the middle class tax burden. Then of course there’s high financier Warren Buffett, who declared last year that taxes were too low on the wealthy. To prove it he’d done a survey in his own office and found that his tax rate was below that of many of his employees.


Reading all of this after having filed your taxes, you probably imagine that the rich are doing a nifty job of avoiding theirs, and that it’s an overburdened middle class that is mostly supporting America’s government—from the war in Iraq to our many domestic programs. And you’d be wrong. As Internal Revenue Service data demonstrate, the rich are getting wealthier, but they are also paying a steadily increasing share of the federal tax burden. Over 25 years, in fact, the percentage of the federal income tax bill paid by the wealthiest Americans has doubled, even as it has shrunk for all others. We are rapidly becoming a society in which a very few pay the greatest part of the cost of government, and everyone else enjoys the benefits. And many people, from our Democratic presidential candidates to members of Congress, want to make it even more so.

To consider how the landscape has changed, it’s worth looking at taxes paid by various income groups over time, via data crunched by the IRS. In 1980, with Jimmy Carter still as president, the top 1 percent of filers, those who reported an adjusted growth income of $80,580 or more, paid 19 percent of all federal income taxes. That was actually less than the total tax share of people collectively in the 11th to 25th percentiles, that is, middle income taxpayers making roughly between $24,000 and $35,000 (in 1980 dollars), and also less than the total share of those earning between $13,000 and $24,000, who represented the 26th to 50th percentiles.

A decade later, despite tax cuts in the 1980s that many critics claimed benefited the rich, our top 1 percent of filers were paying more of the total--25 percent of the country’s tax bill—than anyone else. The portion of taxes paid by the top filers continue to grow throughout the 1990s and into the new century, pausing only for recessions, which are generally periods in which the share of taxes paid by the rich falls because their incomes tend to decline the most. By 2005, the most recent year data are available, our top 1 percent of filers were paying nearly 40 percent of the federal income tax bill, while those in the 2nd to 5th percentile paid another 20 percent. Every other group saw its share of the tax bill decline, sometimes substantially. Those taxpayers in the 26th to 50th percentile (that is, with an adjusted gross income roughly between $31,000 and $62,000) paid 11 percent of all federal income taxes, down from 20 percent back in 1980, while those in the 11th to 25th percentiles (earning between $62,000 and $104,000 today), paid 16 percent of the federal tax bill, down from 24 percent in 1980.

How can all of this be true if, to hear Warren Buffett tell his story, it’s so easy for the rich to minimize their taxes? Buffett’s claim, based on comparing his tax rate to those of people who worked for him, got plenty of publicity, and probably invoked in many people the memory of Leona Helmsley’s infamous line, “only the little people pay taxes.” Buffett’s low tax rate, some people conjectured, was a result of the fact that he earned mostly dividend and capital gains income, and those are now taxed largely at a 15 percent rate.

But Buffett is an exception—one of the super rich. By contrast, most of the wealthy in America today garner their income principally from wages, and thus not only pay more in taxes, but pay taxes at a higher real rate than everyone else—Warren Buffett aside. While taxpayers in every bracket do what they can to minimize their taxes, in 2005, the top 1 percent of filers paid 23 percent of their adjusted gross income in income taxes. Those earning between $62,000 and $104,000--certainly part of the middle class that Hillary Clinton says is bearing a bigger burden because of tax cuts for the wealthy--paid an average tax rate of 9 percent. The tax rate of those with incomes between $31,000 and $62,000 was under 7 percent, or less than one third of the tax rate of the rich.

Of course, this is only the federal income tax. We have other taxes in America, including payroll taxes and even corporate taxes—which individuals pay indirectly through taxes on businesses in which we own shares. The Congressional Budget Office, a nonpartisan entity like the IRS, figures all of those into its calculations of tax rates that Americans pay and concludes that the richest 1 percent pay an even higher real tax rate than the IRS figures—31 percent of income.

Yes, these stats do tell us that some people are doing very well in America, including presumably many people who were middle or low-income workers sometime during the past 25 years and have now vaulted into the top 1 percent of earners. But the data also tell us that much of the hyperventilating in our public discussions about the rich not paying a fair share of taxes is disconnected from reality.

Still, given how skewed the discussion has become, it seems almost certain that with a Democratic victory in the presidential race come November, we will see taxes—and the overall share of taxes paid--rise for the wealthy. Are there any dangers in a society where a fleetingly few earners pay such a big share of taxes, and where some folks’ notion of fairness means taxing these few ever more? We might consider that question by looking at states with their own progressive state income taxes.

Last week, for instance, a labor union-supported policy group released a study noting that Connecticut now has the largest gap between the rich and the poor in the nation. The local pages of the New York Times dutifully reported on this study and asked, what could be done as a remedy? Raise taxes, the advocates urged, heedless of the fact that in Connecticut the top 5 percent of the state’s taxpayers already bear the bulk of the state’s income tax burden. The situation is much the same in neighboring New Jersey and in New York where, for instance, the top income bracket represents just 0.4 percent of taxpayers, but they pay one-third of the state’s income tax.

Is there a consequence to this? Well, for one thing, it’s practically compulsory when talking about the state government in each of these three places to use the adjective “dysfunctional.” All three states have seen governors resign in disgrace within the past several years. All three states are rife with corruption, pork barrel spending and government inefficiencies. Hardly a day goes by that the newspapers don’t reveal yet another outrage of waste, or mismanagement or thievery.

Yet little changes in the government of these states, much to the amazement of outsiders, who often wonder why voters continue to stand for it. The answer, I tell them, is that a very small percentage of voters are paying for this waste, mismanagement and bloat. The rest pay so little that they don’t really care, or they benefit from bloated government, either through jobs in the oversized public sectors, or as users of services.

This is what you get when the few support the many--the direction the federal government is now heading. You get Connecticut, New York or (God help us) New Jersey.

Link (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/04/the_rich_and_their_taxes.html)

bigfootzx
04-15-2008, 06:25 PM
The rich have access to shrewd tax advisors and lawyers who know all the tricks to reduce their liability too. I have a living trust, virtually no taxes paid unless I withdraw funds and bullet proof from lawsuits, Buffett has one too Move the assets under a tax shelter and save more money. The majority of the middle class and poor do not understand how such asset schemes can benefit them but there are plenty of self help books so people can diy. But the majority do not run their own companies nor do they have hundreds of tangible assets as the rich have, but all citizens do need to shelter assets.

The writer is correct in assuming the majority do benefit from bloated govt and taxes. If nothing else, at least the federal and state roads are in good condition and that's a tax benefit. As is law enforcement and national defense.

The Fed could bump up the upper tax rates by 3% and it would not change anyones lifestyle significantly. One trick of politicians is to raise taxes and offer new tax deductions to offset the increase. The SUV tax rebate is a prime example that began while Clinton was president. The rebate benefited businesses and the self-employed. But did they tell the whole world, no, the details trickled down over the years following, but the rich knew asap. Seems like that law was repealed in 2004.

Maybe if the govt had less tax money coming in they'd spend it more wisely, nope, we have to many idiots circling the pork barrel on both sides of the isle.

The good thing about taxing the rich is today there are more of them too tax.

Moby
04-15-2008, 08:06 PM
most of the wealthy in America today garner their income principally from wages, and thus not only pay more in taxes, but pay taxes at a higher real rate than everyone else—Warren Buffett aside.
It appears that Steven Malanga doesn't think very highly of your intellect and it appears that you believe any one's opinions as long as they support your belief.

Most companies today offer a lot of ways to pay that avoid wage earnings. From 1988 to 2000 well over 1/2 of my compensation came in forms that bypassed wage earnings. For a number of years 75% of it came from other sources.

I recently had such a discussion with a doctor at a party. I'm not wealthy but many of these people are wealthy. She worked for a hospital and was only paid in salary. Her husband had his own practice and most of his income avoided wages. I then asked the restaurant owner and his lawyer wife, the CFO, the real estate developer, 2 other doctors and the 2 investors. They all started talking about how they avoided paying wages. It turns out that Lily was the only one to earn her compensation through wages. Just because you don't understand how these things work doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Believe the neoconservative media if you wish. That's your choice. But why be a pawn by spreading the false propaganda?

Why should so many people get a 25% tax when you got less then 1/2 of that?

LadyMod at scam.com
04-15-2008, 08:07 PM
It appears that Steven Malanga doesn't think very highly of your intellect and it appears that you believe any one's opinions as long as they support your belief.




Look at the signature. Grim believes in White Power. But he's not a racist.


:lmao2: :lmao2:

Moby
04-15-2008, 08:12 PM
Look at the signature. Grim believes in White Power. But he's not a racist.


:lmao2: :lmao2:
It sad because he really is smarter then this. He just allows himself to be manipulated so easily by this dribble.

radioguy
04-15-2008, 08:28 PM
Look at the signature. Grim believes in White Power. But he's not a racist.


:lmao2: :lmao2:

So you have decided to again start a flame war with me by falsely accusing me YET AGAIN of being a racist... Just to be clear, my signature says "Remember.. A vote for Ron Paul, is a vote for WHITE POWER!"

I guess I can't blame you Lady mod, because you know by doing this, I will get the boot and you will get liberal ammunity from our so called moderators.

Just so the moderators have things straight, she has just gone off topic to launch ANOTHER UNPROVOKED PERSONAL ATTACK on me. The ball is in your court Moby, Bill... You can either do your job and put a stop to this bullshit now, or you can again turn a blind eye and watch the shit hit the fan again... Your choice.

LadyMod at scam.com
04-15-2008, 08:32 PM
So you have decided to again start a flame war with me by falsely accusing me YET AGAIN of being a racist... Just to be clear, my signature says "Remember.. A vote for Ron Paul, is a vote for WHITE POWER!"

I guess I can't blame you Lady mod, because you know by doing this, I will get the boot and you will get liberal ammunity from our so called moderators.

Just so the moderators have things straight, she has just gone off topic to launch ANOTHER UNPROVOKED PERSONAL ATTACK on me. The ball is in your court Moby, Bill... You can either do your job and put a stop to this bullshit now, or you can again turn a blind eye and watch the shit hit the fan again... Your choice.


Who's flaming? I was repeating your own words. Which seemed warranted given you still hold on to that old signature line about White power and you posted 2 theads bashing a black candidate.


Grow up Cupcake. You are such a whiney ass.


LOL

LadyMod at scam.com
04-15-2008, 08:36 PM
It sad because he really is smarter then this. He just allows himself to be manipulated so easily by this dribble.


You were saying????



:D

LadyMod at scam.com
04-15-2008, 08:47 PM
Most companies today offer a lot of ways to pay that avoid wage earnings. From 1988 to 2000 well over 1/2 of my compensation came in forms that bypassed wage earnings. For a number of years 75% of it came from other sources.

Just because you don't understand how these things work doesn't mean that they don't exist.



This is true. And this year I'll be utilizing some of these ways as my job description has changed yet again and the money I stand to make from this new responsibility I've been offered I do not want being considered or paid as wages.

I'm exploring my options before I start my training.


Lady Mod

Bill
04-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Do not waste my fucking time with this shit radioguy.

That level of criticism isn't threatening, isn't repetitive (yet), isn't slanderous or illegal (yet).

If I didn't closely read your flaming sig, I would have thought you were a nazi myself - with "WHITE POWER" in big letters, the beginning of the sentence is tiny letters.

Was it lame and mis-aimed and irrelevant? yes. Have I noted that a pattern may be starting again? yes.

Put her on freekin ignore and save yourself some trouble, please.

Independent Harry
04-15-2008, 09:37 PM
lol, ahhh, hwo amazing it is to see grim back in the fold. We should create a radio guy thread, and he's only allowed to post opinion articles in that thread. So as not to clutter up the board with dumb shit.

Moby
04-15-2008, 11:09 PM
lol, ahhh, hwo amazing it is to see grim back in the fold. We should create a radio guy thread, and he's only allowed to post opinion articles in that thread. So as not to clutter up the board with dumb shit.
Please, let's not.

Moby
04-15-2008, 11:12 PM
RG, your signature says in large bold type, "White Power". In a time when the media can pull the phrase "The chickens have come to roost" while removing, "Last night on Fox News a man said" then you need to expect someone to pull out just the phrase that you have deliberately made stand out while ignoring the rest.

If you don't want people to make fun of your sig then change it.

radioguy
04-16-2008, 01:50 PM
Do not waste my fucking time with this shit radioguy.

That level of criticism isn't threatening, isn't repetitive (yet), isn't slanderous or illegal (yet).

If I didn't closely read your flaming sig, I would have thought you were a nazi myself - with "WHITE POWER" in big letters, the beginning of the sentence is tiny letters.

Was it lame and mis-aimed and irrelevant? yes. Have I noted that a pattern may be starting again? yes.

Put her on freekin ignore and save yourself some trouble, please.

Excuse the fuck out of me Bill, for attempting to maintain civility on this board.

I love how you jump on my ass for pointing out her attempt to start a flame war AGAIN, yet you said absolutely nothing to the person who posted the personal attack.

So let me understand you here... Starting shit is fine, but pointing out when someone is starting shit is a big NO NO.

Just a suggestion Bill... How about you put you hatred for conservatives aside and moderate this forum.

radioguy
04-16-2008, 01:51 PM
RG, your signature says in large bold type, "White Power". In a time when the media can pull the phrase "The chickens have come to roost" while removing, "Last night on Fox News a man said" then you need to expect someone to pull out just the phrase that you have deliberately made stand out while ignoring the rest.

If you don't want people to make fun of your sig then change it.

Screw you Moby.

I was called a racist because someone knowingly misread my signature.

Is that better..

LadyMod at scam.com
04-16-2008, 02:09 PM
Screw you Moby.

I was called a racist because someone knowingly misread my signature.

Is that better..


Oh no Cupcake. If I want to call you a racist I'll just call you one.

On the other hand, Ron Paul is no longer a candidate so your call to vote for him is a little outdated.

However, I'm sure he appreciates your support.


:lmao2:

Moby
04-16-2008, 04:22 PM
Screw you Moby.

I was called a racist because someone knowingly misread my signature.

Is that better..
Let's get back to the issue at hand.

Do you have any idea about how inaccurate the information is in the article that you posted?

Do you know why someone that's making a lot more money then you would possibly try to get you to agree that he should pay less taxes?

It's one thing to read and believe such false information. It's quite another to be used as a pawn and propagate it.

radioguy
04-17-2008, 10:44 PM
Let's get back to the issue at hand.

Do you have any idea about how inaccurate the information is in the article that you posted?

Do you know why someone that's making a lot more money then you would possibly try to get you to agree that he should pay less taxes?

It's one thing to read and believe such false information. It's quite another to be used as a pawn and propagate it.

Could you point out which information is false, and back that up with proof please Moby.

Moby
04-17-2008, 10:53 PM
Could you point out which information is false, and back that up with proof please Moby.
So an opinion peice posted at a blog must be correct because it supports your views. Even though, you're not one of those people that he's talking about but it must be true. Dude, you're the one that started the thread and it appears that you can NOT support your claim in any way.

Back it up or shut up.

You're being played the fool and now you want others to follow.

radioguy
04-17-2008, 10:57 PM
So an opinion peice posted at a blog must be correct because it supports your views. Even though, you're not one of those people that he's talking about but it must be true. Dude, you're the one that started the thread and it appears that you can NOT support your claim in any way.

Back it up or shut up.

You're being played the fool and now you want others to follow.

You are the one who stated that the information was false Moby... All I asked was that you point out the information in the article you were referring to. If you would do that, then we would have something to talk about. If you can't even do that, then there's nothing to comment on.

Moby
04-18-2008, 05:53 PM
You are the one who stated that the information was false Moby... All I asked was that you point out the information in the article you were referring to. If you would do that, then we would have something to talk about. If you can't even do that, then there's nothing to comment on.

It would be the information that I quoted in my very first response in the thread. Didn't you read it? Now you posted the article and you can NOT support the claims that are made in the article. Can you? Of course NOT! You are only a pawn.
most of the wealthy in America today garner their income principally from wages, and thus not only pay more in taxes, but pay taxes at a higher real rate than everyone else—Warren Buffett aside.