The Problem in Iraq is all these BAWLing Hippies

[Bill]

Whattya think, are we losing the war in iraq because of the hippies? Somehow the hippies are emboldening the terrorists and keeping those iraqis from embracing democracy?

I believe this woman wants us to nuke Iraq, then Iran and NK.

Now that would be unbelievably good television.

America won't win another war until the 1960s flower children are pushing up petunias.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/editorial/15986574.htm

"Must we surrender our country to our enemies because our weapons are too terrible to use?

Whose life is more important: the 12-year-old Iraqi firing an Uzi or a soldier from Kentucky?

Which is more sacred: a mosque hiding a weapons cache or a plane of tourists?

Do we want a military strong enough to protect our homeland? Are we willing to pay the price of survival?

It's crucial that we come to terms with war questions because we will have war with Iran and North Korea. It will come down to their children or ours, their soldiers or ours, their countries or ours."

Read the article to learn what BAWL means...

[Betty Blowtorch]

Just more silly scapegoating.

We woulda won in Vietnam,
and we'd be winning in Iraq,
if it wasn't for them damn hippies?

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4628/jonlovitzgangsterbw5.jpg
Yeah, yeah, dat's da ticket!
Blame da hippies.

And while we're at it, let's blame da gays.
Yeah, yeah! We're losing in Iraq cuz of
them damn pansies.

Let's not blame Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld
or the Pentagon or the CIA or the Neocons
or the religious right...

They didn't have anything to do with it.

[Moby]

"For example, consider their continued belief that America's armed forces are neo-Nazi stormtroopers who delight in burning babies to further the aims of imperialistic corporations."

This is the first time I've heard any say that anyone delights in burning babies or the phrase neo-Nazi stormtroppers. I think she's hearing the same voices that Bush has been hearing the last few years.

[exarmyranger]

I have a question for Betty,on second thought i'll not ask it.Not because I seem to dismiss her opinion's as foolish{because I do}...Truth is I forgot the question...

[Betty Blowtorch]

Getting Alzheimer's? It's been going around lately.

[exarmyranger]

Could be Betty...or just an acute case of C.R.S.{can't remember shit}

[exarmyranger]

G-nite kid's,sweet dream's...

[Linkster]

Well - tried to post earlier but I guess I lost the post - this lady is a whacko thats been whining about just about anything free thinking humans come up with - but then I guess that explains why in the last 10 years shes managed to get herself kicked out of teaching from at least 2 Jr comm.colleges and is working on a third - I thought when she left Calif and Florida she would figure it out - but I guess not

[Kinky Jones]

Well - tried to post earlier but I guess I lost the post - this lady is a whacko thats been whining about just about anything free thinking humans come up with - but then I guess that explains why in the last 10 years shes managed to get herself kicked out of teaching from at least 2 Jr comm.colleges and is working on a third - I thought when she left Calif and Florida she would figure it out - but I guess not

as long as there are people that will listen and buy into what she says she will spew her garbage as much as she can :(

and the 12 yo kid question just shows that American idealogy and patriotism are the most dangerous things in our country right now, and people seem to forget that WE invaded THEIR country, look where patriotism got Germany back in the day... if the US was invaded and people did not take up arms against our invaders they would be cowards, but the people of Iraq are labeled as terrorists and seen as bugs and their lives do not mean a thing.... outta sight outta mind... the pro-war peeps seem to think that only military age Iraqui men are the ones dying over there, they have their blinders on to the mass destruction we have done to that country

[Jesse Hemingway]

Time out I thought cheney,bush, and the neocons already had their Iraq vicory party back in June 2003 so how can you blame the Hippies? These dumb asses would still be in viet nam now, the only good thing is that Mc Cain would still be a POW and we would not have to hear his bull shit.

[stefan segal]

Jesse: These dumb ass would still be in viet nam now the only good thing is that Mc Cain would still be a POW and we would not have to hear his bull shit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This just busted me out...I just love it....I thought for some crazy reason I was the only one seeing a snake when looking at mccain. :)

Stefan

[stefan segal]

Bill, I was at a ranch for ten days, and only now had time to read your link:
================================================== ========
America won't win another war until the 1960s flower children are pushing up petunias.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...l/15986574.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's no wonder we get into these pissing contests...I had no conception of the right-wing garbage out there in repugland...garbage which obviously fills your mind.

Aside from the old saw nonsense slamming Hippies...of which, as a thinking person ready to take responsibility for those heinous criminal acts "my" government commits in my name, (such as the escallating war on Chavez...this hemisphere's last and most vibrant democracy.), I count myself
a proud member; the thrust of this artical is to whine about not being able to attack third-world soverign nations and their populations, without criticism.

You guys want applause for the efforts you expend in becoming proficient killers.

Protecting the homeland.

That has a familiar ring to it.

Pre-emptive strikes against our ambivilant enemies...just to give them direction for their misdirected anger at having their homes implode on their wives and children.

What's to criticize? I mean what sort of pinko, commie, faggot bastard, would object to protecting our wives and daughters from the onslaught of those towel-headed rapists overrunning our borders?


On another note: I just spent some time going through synomyns for hippies, and was shocked by the names for hippies listed in about four compilations.

Names characterizing personality types having nothing to do with the Flower Child.

The list gave the impression that flowerpower was political...and granted there were many like SNICK who were...but they had nothing to do with hippies, except by misguided newspapers who used the term interchangably.

Judging from the outside aolways produces a differet picture form that of those living it.

There was less than nothing political in the flowerchild's credo...we shitcaned every institution existant...all we wanted was to be left alone to "do our own thing".

Not so sayth the thesaurus...so I guess I can't be overly critical of your point of view...as you obviously have no first hand experience of hippie life or credo...(and would most probably misinterpret what you saw, if you did.)

I guess the best I can do in your case (and you are a case study in cult behavior...aka...the military mind, is to remind you to judge your own actions by what is considered xtian credo, and stop pushing off your responsibily for your acts upon some canned government brainwashings...like "fuck for chastity" or "kill for peace"...take your own actions and those whom you support, as your own personal responsibility.

If that last was too convoluted for you to make sense of, then an easir version would look like this:

Killing = killing, and putting lipstick on that pig, doesn't allow the dead guy to go home to his family.

If you pulled the trigger, then that = you pulled the trigger = the dead guy doesn't go home to his family.

kill for jesus...kill for butchco...kill for oil...kill for kicks...kill for peace...all = the dead guy doesn't go home to his kids...and you pulled the trigger (or induced some teenager to do it for you)

As Blowtorch noted...blaming hippies really boldly delineates how lame your position feels to you, yourself, blaming liberals (another bullshit label for those people who experience a sense of humanity) for the military's failure to kill enough "bigmouths" fast enough.

What a sick world you guys have made for the rest of us.

Have you any notion the amount of work and money we have to expend cleaning up the mess of our country and the world you sick people with your gunship diplomacy have wrought upon us all?

I guess not...otherwise you would keep your mouth shut in shame, making only those noises that tend to pass yourself off as civilized.

Stefan

[Lolli]

OK, you so-called "hippies", her words not mine. How do you feel we should respond to not only the World Trade Center attacks but the threats that are now being brought to our doorstep?

I'm truly curious. I believe the solution is somewhere in the middle. We can't nuke everyone and we can't love them into liking us either.

I see action from a conservative way-of-thought, but all I hear from a liberal thought system is criticism of the conservative action.

Pretend for a moment you were in power pre-911. What would you have done, and remember you do not have the ability to know some of the things that you do now know.

:o

[Little Red Dog]

OK, you so-called "hippies", her words not mine. How do you feel we should respond to not only the World Trade Center attacks but the threats that are now being brought to our doorstep?...

Pretend for a moment you were in power pre-911. What would you have done, and remember you do not have the ability to know some of the things that you do now know.

:o

For a start, we should have gone after, and apprehended the people who attacked us on September 11, 2001. And they weren't Iraquis.

[Lolli]

Who and how?

:o

[Little Red Dog]

Are you for real? Where the heck have you been living?

[Lolli]

I'm asking a question is all. I would like to know who you would "go after" and how you would "go after".

...and remember this is "pre-911"

:o

[Moby]

OK, you so-called "hippies", her words not mine. How do you feel we should respond to not only the World Trade Center attacks but the threats that are now being brought to our doorstep?

I'm truly curious. I believe the solution is somewhere in the middle. We can't nuke everyone and we can't love them into liking us either.

I see action from a conservative way-of-thought, but all I hear from a liberal thought system is criticism of the conservative action.

Pretend for a moment you were in power pre-911. What would you have done, and remember you do not have the ability to know some of the things that you do now know.

:o
You mean if I was President?

In August of 2001 when I was taking the longest vacation of any first term President in the history of our great nation I would have at least read the terror threat reports coming from other countries.

In reality being the first year of my Presidency I don't think I would have taken any vacation so I would have been in The White House when those reports came in.

[Lolli]

ok, then what would you have done?

The towers have been hit.

Now what?

[Little Red Dog]

Lolli - Let's establish a baseline here: Who hit the Twin Towers on 9/11?

I'm asking a question is all. I would like to know who you would "go after" and how you would "go after".

...and remember this is "pre-911"

:o

If it's pre-9/11, then the towers have not been hit, and an act of war has not occurred. Are you suggesting that we should have gone to war over something that didn't occur?

[Lolli]

that's part of my question...

you said you would apprehend those responsible....all I got was....they were not Iraqi

so establish it for me.

Who would you apprehend?

:o

[Little Red Dog]

You have to be a troll. Because this is a ridiculous line of inquiry. If you don't know - at this stage of the game - who carried out the attacks on 9/11, there's nothing I can do for you.

Let us assume that you have been locked up in some mental asylum for the last 6 years, without access to media of any sort. The last place you should be looking for information is a forum board. You're clearly computer literate. Google "9/11 attacks" and make yourself a nice big cup of some soothing drink.

Just don't waste our time by asking stupid questions.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

The ONLY Hippie I know at the moment from that generation is Radioguy.

http://dcjunkies.com/customavatars/avatar439_2.gif :D

Granted he does a lot of bawling and squawling about how unfair he's being treated here but he's been all for death and destruction of countries who had nothing to do with 9/11.


:confused:

[Moby]

ok, then what would you have done?

The towers have been hit.

Now what?
I would have sent the National Guard to NY and made sure that they had more equipment then they needed. The extra equipment could have saved a lot of lives for the NY workers that had sub par equipment.

I would have asked OBL's family business partners to stick around Washington for a few more days instead of sending them off so quickly without answering questions.

I would have pressured Saudi Arabia on why all the money and most of the terrorists came from the country of our close allies.

I would have invaded Afghanistan and built a small US base there.

I would NEVER give into OBL's demands and pull the troops from Saudi Arabia.

I would have responded to The King Of Jordan about talking to Saddam and would have paid him off to go into exile. Then I would have put another puppet government in place in Iran but I would hold the rains tighter and keep a closer watch. I mean we put Saddam in power so we couldn't put another one in there without war?

I would continue to fight in Afghanistan until all or at least most of the poppies were gone. Since this Al-qaeda's main source of income and it's increased by vast amounts since we invaded it would weaken them instead of making them stronger.

Some where along the lines I would have offered $100 Billion of tax credits for the purchase of new hybrid vehicles. By creating a strong hybrid market in the USA we would cut our need for oil and push technology which is always a strong point in US history when we're not preoccupied by cheap labor.

I never would have pulled funding for investigating businesses hiring illegal aliens. In fact, I would have increased funding. Eliminating the demand for illegals would make it less valuable for them to come across our borders making them more secure.

I would ensure that we never run more then 5% to 10% spending deficit. Perhaps in 2002 i would have gone to the 35% that we did as an emergency but I see no need to keep doing that for 8 years.

I'm sure there are other things.

[Moby]

ok, then what would you have done?

The towers have been hit.

Now what?
What would you have done?

[Lolli]

hmmmm, name calling now and all I was asking was your opinion

I just wanted to know who and what you would do.

...again all I get is told how a president screwed up and no solutions as to how it could have been done differently

*shrug*

Of course I've seen the info that is around, and I don't necessarily think what the president chose to do was the way to handle it, but again, I would like to know what the "other side" would have done.

Thought a forum would be a place to ask a question and not just get preached too again.

sorry for that

:o

[Lolli]

Sir Moby

I don't know what I would have done.

What are the options?

I know how a conservative president or should I say, this conservative president would and did handle it.

...yet I guess I was just asking for some insight on a better way.....?

:o

[Moby]

I know how a conservative president or should I say, this conservative president would and did handle it.
George W. is not a conservative. He's a neocon. While he's not an actual member of The PNAC the VP is, most of his advisers are and even family members that helped put him in power are.

Dubya is very liberal on economic issues and very fascist on loyalty issues. There isn't much room for democracy or conservatives values outside of his claims about religion.

[Lolli]

Awesome Sir Moby!

sorry, I missed your initial reply.

I really think we need to take their power away, which means attacking them by not being so reliant on their oil.

I'm not sure I buy all the "global warming" hype, but I do believe that this gives them enormous power, yet this will take too long as well.

I do also believe that we need to question Saudi Arabia in their part somehow in this, yet how do we do this without threatening our oil supply?

Like it or not, they have the power right now in this area.

:o

[Lolli]

George W. is not a conservative. He's a neocon. While he's not an actual member of The PNAC the VP is, most of his advisers are and even family members that helped put him in power are.

Dubya is very liberal on economic issues and very fascist on loyalty issues. There isn't much room for democracy or conservatives values outside of his claims about religion.


So do you believe he is a puppet or do you believe he is a true neocon and don't you find it odd that he can be sooooo liberal on economics and soooo fascist on loyalty issues?

...just find it contradictory in so many ways

:o

[Little Red Dog]

hmmmm, name calling now and all I was asking was your opinion

I just wanted to know who and what you would do.

...again all I get is told how a president screwed up and no solutions as to how it could have been done differently

*shrug*

Of course I've seen the info that is around, and I don't necessarily think what the president chose to do was the way to handle it, but again, I would like to know what the "other side" would have done.

Thought a forum would be a place to ask a question and not just get preached too again.

sorry for that

:o

I did not call you any names. You made a series of posts phrased in such a way as to suggest that you were not familiar with the events of 9/11. It is difficult for me to believe that someone who has been moving about in ordinary society could be so uninformed of even the most basic version of those events.

Additionally, you asked what we should have done pre-911, without any knowledge of what transpired on that day. Again, a ridiculous hypothesis. You are asking people to lay out a series of actions in response to an event that did not occur, and which they have no knowledge can, and will happen. If you can't see the absurdbity of that, you will not fare well here.

Also please review my responses to you. Nowhere do you see me address "how a president screwed up and no solutions as to how it could have been done differently".

If you have a position on the matter, state it, and take the discussion from there. Asking questions like "Who would you have gone after post 9/11?" is just begging for a response like "Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy."

[Lolli]

pardon me, Little Red, yet you called me a troll and said that I belonged in an asylum.

Nevertheless, in my initial post, I stated that I wanted to hear what someone else might have done if they were in the president's shoes on 9-11.

I too believe he made a bad decision. Yet as I have stated again and again. What were the alternative solutions?

You were there in that classroom of little children, or as you stated you would have been in the whitehouse...ok, you "Little Red Dog" are standing in the whitehouse and you are told...."Two planes just hit the twin towers"

You stated you would "apprehend those responsible" I asked who...there are many veiws on who we should hold responsible. Who does "Little Red Dog" hold responsible? I also asked how...How would "Little Red Dog" apprehend these people?

...and furthermore...I'm not a troll...I'm just having a bad hair day *smile*

:o

[Little Red Dog]

I opined that you must be a troll based on the circular method of your posts. That is typical troll behavior: ask a question that cannot be answered in any logical way.

And the only possible reason I could think of for you to not be familar with the events of 9/11, would be for you to have been sequestered in an institution. I did not say you belonged there.

As for: "You were there in that classroom of little children, or as you stated you would have been in the whitehouse...ok, you "Little Red Dog" are standing in the whitehouse and you are told...."Two planes just hit the twin towers"

None of those are things I posted.

And for: You stated you would "apprehend those responsible" I asked who...there are many veiws on who we should hold responsible. Who does "Little Red Dog" hold responsible? I also asked how...How would "Little Red Dog" apprehend these people?

Perhaps if you had prefaced your question with "there are many views on who to hold responsible" you might have received a different response. It seems you think we should have been able to somehow intuit your full train of thought.

I hold Osama bin Laden responsible. To the best of our knowledge, he in on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. We gave Afghanistan only the most cursory pass, and moved on to Iraq. Osama bin Laden (who is regarded as a hero to many in the al Quaeda movement) has not been caught. Instead, we are bogged down in a country that did not attack us, never threatened to do so, and had no connection with the attack on us.

I call that taking your eye off the ball.

What would I have done differently? Finished the job properly in Afghanistan, for a start. And I certainly would not have invaded Iraq without concrete provocation.

[Lolli]

Ah, my bad then Little Red Dog, perhaps if you had said "you must be trolling" I would have understood better as well.

Also, yes I could have prefaced my question more clearly. I apologize. I thought in just asking a question the way I did it was clear that I was inquiring as to your opinion.

I would like to ask something more and this is your opinion. Do you feel if President Clinton had taken OBL into custody when he was offered, the World Trade Centers would still be standing?

:o

[Little Red Dog]

Clinton was not offered bin Laden directly. The Sudanese government offered to arrest him and turn him over to the Saudis. (It is assumed that the Sudanese, being predominantly a Muslim country, did not want to be directly responsible for handing over a Muslim to Americans, and were hoping to pass that off on to the Saudis.)

However, the Saudis wouldn't take the bait. So there was nothing the Clinton adminstration could do, except ask for bin Laden to be deported, and hope he turned up somewhere where they could arrest him. In the meantime, they tried to freeze bin Laden's assets, since he was largely self-funded at the time.

Additionally, the Clinton administration did carry out air strikes against several known al Quaeda camps. There have been further allegations that they refused to bomb a location where they knew OBL was in residence. That was the hunting camp of a Saudi prince (remember, the Saudis are supposed to be our allies), and an air strike would have killed everyone in the camp. From a diplomatic perspective, that is not a move Clinton could make.

I don't know if capturing bin Laden at that stage of the game would have prevented 9/11, or merely delayed it. I have no idea how well developed their plans were at that stage, or if bin Laden had a successor ready to take his place should something happen to him.

In any case, I supported going after bin Laden in Afghanistan (known to be harboring him). I did not, and do not, support the war in Iraq. For the purposes of finding and bringing to justice those who attacked us on 9/11, we are in the wrong country.

I don't believe OBL will be caught - at least, not by Bush. And I blame Bush less for not anticipating 9/11, than I blame him for his response to it.

[stefan segal]

Osama bin Laden stated unequivically, that he applauded the strike, but had no knowlege or participation in it.

I thouroughy believe this statement, as Osama, a former CIA operative, had proved unpredictable in his reactions and eho would approach him with the 9/11 operations...his part would be to provide the cover story. It would be likely that Osama make the black opps public...to trash the CIA while experiencing no cost to himself.

Those planes without the demolition charges, are only a great publicity stunt. There is no possible means for the energy delivered to create the energy experienced.

In fact, Osama would have profited more by having the fires be put out and the whole world quaking in fear rather than mourning and real vitriolic rage at him. So I would bet that had Osama known of the plot to demolish the buildings (evidence of financial crimes) and blame/credit him he would have gone public before 9/11 occurred.

If you think I'm certifiable, then take five minutes to watch the vidieo I just posted on 'gov. use of nuclear weapons on 9/11...it has to do with what the bush family was doing on and days before 9/11...it might surprise you.

Stefan

[Bill]

You guys are wasting your time, whoever this is is a dingbat and a whiner.

Whoever this is has never had an original thought. They couldn't do basic research if their life depended on it.

Whine whine whine. Parrot parrot parrot. That's all that will ever happen.

I suppose it's good practice, if a non-dingbat non-whiner ever comes along.

Like that's possible. I've given up hope.

[Americanadian]

Getting Alzheimer's? It's been going around lately.

The best thing about Alzheimer's is that you meet new friends every day. :D

[Americanadian]

OK, you so-called "hippies", her words not mine. How do you feel we should respond to not only the World Trade Center attacks but the threats that are now being brought to our doorstep?

I'm truly curious. I believe the solution is somewhere in the middle. We can't nuke everyone and we can't love them into liking us either.

I see action from a conservative way-of-thought, but all I hear from a liberal thought system is criticism of the conservative action.

Pretend for a moment you were in power pre-911. What would you have done, and remember you do not have the ability to know some of the things that you do now know.

:o

If you believe that Osama was responsible for 9/11, do you also believe it to be a result of 20th century American hegemony? Surely America cannot meddle in the affairs of so many foreign sovereign nations without suffering 'blowback' of some manner? Yet, we feign ignorance when violence and bloodshed, returns to our soil an hundred fold. Where is the honesty in America? Why is it so difficult to embrace the truth about American Foreign Policy in the 20th century being the catalyst and reason for 9/11 IF one believes the "official story"?

Indeed, it appears as though many refuse to acknowledge that observation in addition to abnegating any possible bureaucracy involvement. It would be pretty delusional to believe that people attacked America for absolutely no motivation at all other than some of the famous peddled lines such as; "they hate us for our freedoms", (etc, etc, to ad nauseam). Can people really be so abysmally stupid to believe that some terrorists attacked for absolutely no reason whatsoever?

There is and was motivation to inflict carnage on America. The United States has wilfully supported a country which has ignored International Law and Human Rights of civilians in its neighboring countries. By use of its veto at the UN, America has endorsed Israel's murderous rampage of innocent civilians, whilst labelling them as "terrorists" to excuse their subtle obfuscated ethnic cleansing campaign. As long as America supports Zionist Israel, expect to see more violence and bloodshed levied against us in turn up close and personal. If we continue to elect politicians whom kowtow to such depravity, we may as well walk around with targets affixed to our apparel. That is reality.

[Americanadian]

You guys are wasting your time, whoever this is is a dingbat and a whiner.

Whoever this is has never had an original thought. They couldn't do basic research if their life depended on it.

Whine whine whine. Parrot parrot parrot. That's all that will ever happen.

I suppose it's good practice, if a non-dingbat non-whiner ever comes along.

Like that's possible. I've given up hope.


Read the following lyrics. I believe it accurately depicts the dependency of a Right Winger on the system of propaganda and lies enacted for the gullible and obsequious. Great words for minions such as RG to consider, especially at the end when the minion is betrayed by those whom they remain dependent upon.


Sad But True
Metallica


Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who takes you there
Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who cares
They
They betray
I'm your only true friend now
They
They'll betray
I'm forever there

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true

You
You're my mask
You're my cover, my shelter
You
You're my mask
You're the one who's blamed
Do
Do my work
Do my dirty work, scapegoat
Do
Do my deeds
For you're the one who's shamed

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true

Hate
I'm your hate
I'm your hate when you want love
Pay
Pay the price
Pay, for nothing's fair

Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who took you there
Hey
I'm your life
And I no longer care

I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Sad but true

I'm your truth, telling lies
I'm your reasoned alibis
I'm inside open your eyes
I'm you

Sad But True
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1iskyNSbS7k

[Jesse Hemingway]

OK, you so-called "hippies", her words not mine. How do you feel we should respond to not only the World Trade Center attacks but the threats that are now being brought to our doorstep?

I'm truly curious. I believe the solution is somewhere in the middle. We can't nuke everyone and we can't love them into liking us either.

I see action from a conservative way-of-thought, but all I hear from a liberal thought system is criticism of the conservative action.

Pretend for a moment you were in power pre-911. What would you have done, and remember you do not have the ability to know some of the things that you do now know.

:o

Could you have stopped 9/11?

By: Jesse Hemingway

4/21/2006

http://www.joplinindependent.com/display_article.php/jesse-h1159649228


I would like to ask the question; was the American Intelligence agencies a sleep at the wheel during the first 9 ¼ months in 2001. I will lay out key intelligence indicators during that time frame to see if you as an unskilled annalist see the glaring red flags with in the realm of the terrorist underworld environment. Richard Clark was attempting to raise the awareness to the Bush administration as early as January 24, 2001.

“On January 24, 2001 I requested in writing an urgent meeting of the NSC Principals committee to address the al Qida threat. That meeting took place on September 4, 2001. It was preceded by a number of Deputies Committee meetings, beginning in April. Those meetings considered proposals to step up activity against al Qida, including military assistance to anti-Taliban Afghan factions.

In June and July, intelligence indicated an increased likelihood of a major al Qida attack against US targets, probably in Saudi Arabia or Israel. In response, the interagency Counter-terrorism Security Group agreed upon a series of steps including a series of warning notices that an attack could take place in the US. Notices were sent to federal agencies (Immigration, Customs, Coast Guard, FAA, FBI, DOD, and State), state and local police, airlines, and airports.

In retrospect, we know that there was information available to some in the FBI and CIA that al Qida operatives had entered the United States. That information was not shared with the senior FBI counter-terrorism official (Dale Watson) or with me, despite the heightened state of concern in the Counter-terrorism Security Group” (Ref 1: Richard Clark MSNBC)

The declassified document on April 10, 2004 indicated that in a “Presidential Daily Briefing
bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US August 6, 2001” (Ref 2 : Government PDB)

The preceding information was in the hands of the United States Government and I am sure a significant amount more concerning this threat. The following information was available without any security clearance in the public domain. You are now qualified to work for the Bush administration as an Honorary Halfwit Deputized Security Analyst (HHDSA) you would need to have a grasp of the underworld method of finance. This banking system is called “Hawala” the Hawala system that has roots in the Middle East and Asia and has been in existent longer than the United States of America.

“System is known as Hawala, and has been used for hundreds of years to move money across distance and around legal and financial barriers in South Asia and the Middle East. The word Hawala in Arabic is defined as a bill of exchange or a promissory note. In Egyptian Arabic, the closest translation would be maqassa (barter) of money between individuals, which was banned under former president Gamal Abdel- Nasser. Arab traders used the system on the Silk Road to avoid being robbed; millions of Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis, and others working abroad now use it to send money home to their families.” (Ref 3: Al-Ahram Weekly Online by: John Sfakianakis)

As HHDSA and understanding the seedy financial system of terrorist network and other questionable enterprises known as money laundering you need to understand what countries have lose national banking laws that creates a vacuum for all parties involved. It would become critical as an HHDSA to prioritize countries that welcome these transactions and to fix your eyes on undocumented transactions within these countries. Any HHDSA worth their salt would know when something should raise a red flag like any questionable business using the same Post Office Box like the following P.O. Box 3313 Dubai, UAE (Ref 4). This should have initiated a stake out on that P.O. Box to identify all partiers associated with it to create a case file.

As a HHDSA you need to be aware of how currency gets cleaned because this gives you clues when questionable sums of currency become converted. Precious metals are a vehicle that fits into the parameters of a method of laundering currency. You would want to stay on top of these markets for irrational movements to sound an alarm. This bring us to MAY 21, 2001 with in hours gold moves nearly 10% yet the other precious metals do not follow this momentary trend. (Ref 5) This is beyond a red flag warning this would be sirens and light blaring. Somebody or entity had purchased enough gold in such a short timeframe to push the price up nearly 10% in a very lackluster market is an indication something is going down.

“In May and June 2001 the State Bank of Pakistan was said to have turned to Hawala shops in Islamabad to buy dollars in order to support the local currency. Contrary to popular perception, Dubai is not the only Hawala centre in the world.” (Ref 3) “US has targeted an ancient, informal system of money transfers, that officials believe has funneled millions of dollars to Osama Bin Laden's Al-Qa'eda network using Dubai as a transfer point. It is also believed that, just as the US began bombing Afghanistan, Taliban and Al-Qa'eda operatives sent millions of dollars through this informal money system to Dubai, where the assets were converted into gold.” (Ref3: Al-Ahram Weekly Online by: John Sfakianakis)

There is a little lag time in a Hawala transaction but by June 24, 2001 Osama Bin Laden’s spiritual account was running over to the extent that it was common knowledge with in the Taliban shit was going to happen.
“The Taliban says it is keeping an eye on Osama Bin Laden and will not allow him to launch attacks on foreign targets. This was in response to an Arab news service reporting that Bin Laden had said there would be a major attack against Western targets in the next two weeks. While the Taliban is watching Bin Laden, they are apparently not doing anything to actually control his activities.” (Ref 6: Strategy Page)

These circumstances appear that a complete transaction had been entered into, a payment for some type of service to be performed a.k.a CONTRACT.
Any HHDSA knows that there is another critical component that is communications on August 25, 2001 the Taliban cut off internet communications. “The Taliban has banned the use of the Internet by anyone in the nation. The only exception will be a few Taliban officials who will monitor the net. This will be particularly hard on aid organizations, who use the net to help run their relief operations.” (Ref 7: Strategy Page) This would have made it simple to monitor the communications within a country by outside sources.

In my opinion there was enough unclassified information available to know that Osama Bin Laden was preparing to strike the United States. Integrate the classified information that the United States Government had with the unclassified information concerning Osama Bin Laden we have a total breakdown in national security.

I do not have the ability to determine who had pushed up the price of gold on May 21, 2001 yet it is an indication somebody was buying a considerable amount of gold to push the price up in that manner. That spike in the gold market happened very fast and a month later Osama Bin Laden made it common knowledge that an attack was going to happen.

Now you have to look and evaluate this information and come to a conclusion and compare it to the version the United States Government has been telling you. In retrospect we all understand exactly how incompetent the Bush administration really is and waiting one week before 9/11 to have the “principle meeting” (Ref:1) is a serious crime of mismanagement, ignorance is not a defense in court, or our national security.

“Between the Taliban taking over Kabul in September 1996 and the Group of Eight (G-8) summit in the summer of 2001, neither the administration of president Bill Clinton nor that of his successor, President George W Bush, ever designated Afghanistan as a terrorist or even a rogue state: the Taliban were wined and dined as long as they played the Pipelineistan game in Central Asia (see Pipelineistan revisited, December 24-25, 2003). Unocal - which had put the CentGas Pipeline Consortium in place - hired Henry Kissinger as a consultant. Unocal also hired two very well-connected Afghans: Zalmay Khalilzad, a Pashtun with a PhD from the University of Chicago and former Paul Wolfowitz aide, and Hamid Karzai, a Pashtun from Kandahar. In 1996, both Khalilzad and Karzai were ultra-pro-Taliban. Karzai is now Afghanistan's US-backed ruler. Khalilzad also made splendid career moves: Bush-appointed National Security Council member (working under Condoleezza Rice), "special envoy" to Afghanistan (only nine days after the Karzai government was sworn in), and current US ambassador.

The Taliban didn't want to play ball: every time, they wanted more money and more investments for the roads and the infrastructure of their ravaged country - until an exasperated Washington decided to finish them off. This was discussed in Geneva in May 2001, at the G8 summit in Genoa in July 2001, and finally at a Berlin hotel, also that July, a meeting involving US, Russian, German and Pakistani officials. Asia Times Online later learned in Islamabad that the US plan was to strike against the Taliban from bases in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan before October 2001. Then the terrorist attacks of September 11 happened, providing Washington the perfect excuse to go it alone”.
(Ref.11)


References
1.) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4595173/
2.) http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html
3.) http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/580/ec1.htm
4.) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=P.O.+Box+3313,Dubai,UAE&spell=1
5.) http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/goldyear_new2.cgi
6.) http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/afghan/articles/20010624.aspx
7.) http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/afghan/articles/20010825.aspx
8.) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm
9.) http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-150
10.) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1997%2F12%2F14 %2Fwtal14.html
11.) http://www.counterpunch.org/tomenron.html
12.) http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FE18Aa03.html

[Jesse Hemingway]

pardon me, Little Red, yet you called me a troll and said that I belonged in an asylum.

Nevertheless, in my initial post, I stated that I wanted to hear what someone else might have done if they were in the president's shoes on 9-11.

I too believe he made a bad decision. Yet as I have stated again and again. What were the alternative solutions?

You were there in that classroom of little children, or as you stated you would have been in the whitehouse...ok, you "Little Red Dog" are standing in the whitehouse and you are told...."Two planes just hit the twin towers"

You stated you would "apprehend those responsible" I asked who...there are many veiws on who we should hold responsible. Who does "Little Red Dog" hold responsible? I also asked how...How would "Little Red Dog" apprehend these people?

...and furthermore...I'm not a troll...I'm just having a bad hair day *smile*

:o


It would have NEVER happend on my watch!!!!!

[Jesse Hemingway]

Kind of funny how bad bush really screwed up yet the only thing this administration has done successfully is preyed on its citizens by scaring them and brain washing them.

Let’s go to the next level and think of why everything bush has done is weaken the United States and the alleged terrorist walk the world free and all the bush ass kissers can only praise him for keeping them safe.

When an airplane flies into a building the building should burn up not BLOW UP.

Now you cowards should all say a prayer, about how safe daddy bush is keeping you cowardly fools isn’t that where we started at. :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: