VERY interesting article on personal economics, how to survive the coming depression

[Bill]

Since I got my house long ago, the housing stuff doesn't apply to me.

But I thought this was one of the most interesting article's I read on how to deal with the next few years.

I recommend going to the link and reading the whole thing - you won't regret the time, and the ideas may help someone you know.

I don't agree with it all, but I'm thinking about it all.

Here's some sample snippets:

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/140497

How to survive the Great Depression of 2008 - 2009

Plan for your bankruptcy- Don’t go nuts on your credit cards, but use them up if you cannot pay them. Do not go bankrupt until the month your house is going to foreclosure sale. This will give you an additional three months. Even more if you can work something out with the attorney to delay the proceedings. That is at least 3 more months of living free. Watch excessive spening on cards or huge items going back 12 months before bankruptcy. Hide your cash.

This is especially important if you lost your job. The bank will not go under if you do not pay them, but your family will starve if you feel honor bound to pay the crooks, I mean lenders and credit card companies, til you are really broke and destitute.

Learn how to send cease and desist orders to creditors you are going to bankrupt so they leave you alone.

Realize you are talking about surviving here. You need your car and a roof over your head. You need money to live and eat for you and your family. Don’t worry about breaking the hearts of the crooks that made this mess or the credit card companies (read: loan sharks.) Worry about you.

Feel bad, like you are using the system? These scumbags have received 100s of billions of dollars of our taxpayers money for being crooks. And the CEOs made millions more. So, F#ck em, burn em back. Worry about you and your family not some billionaire. They borrowed the money to lend to you. They got it at 0.25% interest (that is a quarter point) and sold it to you on some screwed up plan that is going up to 8% or more. They will (and are) being bailed out by our loving congress and the lender still made tons on the interest they earned from you over a few years.

After your bankruptcy move into a nice rental and relax. You should have little or no debt. If you still have your job you may be on a small repayment plan, but you will be fine.

Predictions for the next 12 months –

-Home prices will flip around but continue down. Drastic drop when the Dem president takes over in January (you will almost think it was timed).

- After the Dems take the whitehouse the supports trying to hold up the economy will finally buckle. It's not personal, its politics. Perfect planning to ensure a Republican ticket win in 2012. Look for 2009 to be a bad year financially. Gotta love top level political strategy.

-Prices on condos will drop and be close to 2002/3 levels on their way down to 2001 levels. Many small condo complexes will be bought as apartments or most likely timeshares.

-Home prices will fall and keep falling, then stagnate for at least 4 years. Bargain hunting time (in about 2 years). Loans will suck as 7% will be the new ‘good fixed rate.’ But your total debt will be a few hundred thousand less if you buy during the stagnate period.

-A whole bunch of fake baloney will happen on capitol hill regarding the lending industry but nothing will happen, other than your taxpayer money making sure the lenders did not lose a penny.

-All those bankrupt sub prime lenders? Wow, hey, they all started new companies. Wow, amazing how that worked out. Look for that beginning next year.

-Wall street and major news outlets will continue to talk about ‘downturns’ and other things to make you feel rosey. That is mostly to suck the money out of those people who can still be gullible enough to fall for it. Remember who they work for. It ain't you.

- Gold, silver, and Oil will bankrupt many as it drops to the floor, bringing dumb investors to their knees. Oh yea, oil is gonna go to two hundred you say. Hey, it is your money, go ahead and gamble it like a moron. It will start dropping back down on its way to 34 bucks a barrel by year's end (it will eventually get to 34, not at years end, but heading towards it on its way down.) As for gold and silver, if you buy it now you are really stupid.

Don’t believe any of this? Look me up next year. You did not believe me in 2004/2005 either.



- Iraq - Now that the 'nuclear peace' is over, things are going back to the way they were (and have always been) pre- 1945. Big countries make puppets of little countries. Iraq no longer exists. Many dictators want it for different reasons. Saudis want a buffer state, or part of one, to make sure Iran is not their next door neighbor. Syria and the other little countries want a spot at the table and part of the spoils. Iran wants a piece of the action and will be part of the political process (read: puppet) in Iraq. America will not leave Iraq, America will have a small 'American Iraq' in there somewhere. Iraq as a country on the world stage is over. And it will be a long time before it will really be one again, if ever. The question is, which country will it be a part of in 2020? Or will it be split into other countries? No matter which it is, the war in Iraq is over Iraq and nothing else. Greedy dictators are wringing their hands with excitement over owning something new.

[Smurf-Herder]

Oil heading to $34 a barrel by the end of this year? What would make that happen so fast?

Wait a minute here. How could there be a depression if oil goes down that low? Wouldn't lower fuel, transportation and production costs bring different business sectors back to normal; and bring prices of everything back down?

BTW, if you bought Gold in 2004, you'd have doubled your investment this year.

[Bill]

Yeah, I had that same reaction - altho I know he's not the only person that thinks that, since I've been studying oil for many many years, I happen to think he's entirely wrong on that.

But, it would be nice. I wouldn't mind being wrong, and being able to live out my golden years on cheap oil.

The gold and silver thing is a bit more complex - I think it's possible it will go down, but, that much?

If it does go down that much, I'll buy as much as I can. I won't buy it now, because there is too much of a chance of a drop - during which I plan to snap some up.

I also thought it was silly that he was using the word depression, but his advice premises that the individual still has a job to afford rent. A misuse of terms - he's describing behavior in a recession.

[Smurf-Herder]

Yeah, I had that same reaction - altho I know he's not the only person that thinks that, since I've been studying oil for many many years, I happen to think he's entirely wrong on that.

But, it would be nice. I wouldn't mind being wrong, and being able to live out my golden years on cheap oil.

The gold and silver thing is a bit more complex - I think it's possible it will go down, but, that much?

If it does go down that much, I'll buy as much as I can. I won't buy it now, because there is too much of a chance of a drop - during which I plan to snap some up.

I also thought it was silly that he was using the word depression, but his advice premises that the individual still has a job to afford rent. A misuse of terms - he's describing behavior in a recession.

I could see oil coming down a bit, if supply was dramatically increased. But considering a lot involves speculators, anything could happen. And the trend is up, with increasing worry about the security of the middle east region.

The Gold price could be artificially high, with some countries like Russia having started hoarding it a while back. Similar to the Hunt Brothers in the early 80s with Silver. The thing about Gold is, it has it's own "real" value, as opposed to paper notes. If money becomes worthless (if things get that bad), a commodity like Gold can still leave you the ability to survive.

I do believe there is a chance we could experience a depression. But I don't see it happening for only a year or two, if it does. Especially nowadays, when everything is so interconnected. If the US goes into a true depression, I feel the influence of it will have a global impact.

Although, that could be the plan of the powers that be. To establish a New Order, through the back door.

[Cat slave]

But of course.

[Moby]

with increasing worry about the security of the middle east region.
That's exactly why all the sabre rattling over there. Every time the administration calls Iran evil the price goes up. Every time Ahmadinejad talks about nukes the price goes up. Bush and Ahmadinejad have been pushing the price of oil up for years now.

Although, that could be the plan of the powers that be. To establish a New Order, through the back door.
So you have been the white papers from Bush's handlers (The PNAC).

[disrupter]

Cynicism is as dumb as blind optimism,

Reality NEVER makes it that easy for you.

You have to sift through a mountain of chaos, hoping to find a few delicate threads to follow.

I am sure bits & pieces of his ideas may work, but probably only if very carefully done. If you research it carefully enough to do it correctly i suppose you could easily rationalize that you 'earned' it.

We have to create a 3D world from 2D blueprints.
Not sure how that gets done, but that is the mission.
Probably gonna be messy.
No 'guarantees'.

[kres24GT]

I'd arm yourself to teeth, when the bottom falls out of this thing it's going to be bad.

[bigfootzx]

Hoffman's right, oil prices are artifically manipulated today just ask Dick Cheney and his Halliburton buddies who love to trade oil contracts into infinity. We'll never see $34 a barrel but we will see investigations into speculators and false research aimed at keeping the bubble going.

[Bill]

These were some of the statements that I thought might accurately describe the near future.

And was very relevant to the life of the average american.



-Home prices will flip around but continue down. Drastic drop when the Dem president takes over in January (you will almost think it was timed).

- After the Dems take the whitehouse the supports trying to hold up the economy will finally buckle. It's not personal, its politics. Perfect planning to ensure a Republican ticket win in 2012. Look for 2009 to be a bad year financially. Gotta love top level political strategy.

-Home prices will fall and keep falling, then stagnate for at least 4 years. Bargain hunting time (in about 2 years). Loans will suck as 7% will be the new ‘good fixed rate.’ But your total debt will be a few hundred thousand less if you buy during the stagnate period.

-A whole bunch of fake baloney will happen on capitol hill regarding the lending industry but nothing will happen, other than your taxpayer money making sure the lenders did not lose a penny.

-All those bankrupt sub prime lenders? Wow, hey, they all started new companies. Wow, amazing how that worked out. Look for that beginning next year.

-Wall street and major news outlets will continue to talk about ‘downturns’ and other things to make you feel rosey. That is mostly to suck the money out of those people who can still be gullible enough to fall for it. Remember who they work for. It ain't you.

[thatguywho]

Home prices have continued down.

Dems did take the whitehouse.

The economy is buckling.

Condos are collapsing

2009 is looking to be a really bad year indeed.

a whole buch of fake baloney did happen on the hill and the lenders did get all the money and that was all that happened.

Wallstreet is still saying 'rallies on the way' and 'we are probably at the bottom', 2009 will be tough but the bulls are out...

Oil was 33.87 a barrel on dec 19th, the end of the january contracts.
Oil jumped up to 49 and is now right around 34 a barrel as the feb contracts end.


so far so good. Here is a link to some other things that came true

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/173348


Now that 9 months have gone by, what do you think now?

[ROdger Right]

When i was in grade school or something i learned to ask for a cup of water then pour ketchup into it so youll have soup for the day.

[Dale escondido]

When i was in grade school or something i learned to ask for a cup of water then pour ketchup into it so youll have soup for the day.

They ate rats and called them" hoover rats "during the first depression.
We dont have them in california, hope we dont starve.
I have a neighbor who has a dog that wont shut up, Wonder what......:lmao2:

[Cat slave]

OK, what if one is debt free and has savings still in an IRA....what is everyone
doing about that???? Liquidate/sell at a loss or hang on and hope it comes
back in our lifetime!!!! WHAT...already!!!

[Dale escondido]

OK, what if one is debt free and has savings still in an IRA....what is everyone
doing about that???? Liquidate/sell at a loss or hang on and hope it comes
back in our lifetime!!!! WHAT...already!!!

Thats hard for anyone to answer.
Me I am 50% gold and silver now.
Not sure of anything but my plan is to be able to get by for two years of turbulance.
The value of a home doesnt matter if you can afford it.
If youy cant afford to live somewhere that difference, but dont worry about value otherwise.
Income will possibly be a problem for many and thats what i would look at covering.
Heat, food etc.
If hyper-inflation shows up it will effect what you dont have, not what you do.

[Dale escondido]

Sorry I missed the point you were asking. Cat

For me iras are saving accounts only and dont belong in markets so I didnt get it.
As far as recouping or not ,market can go either way

[disrupter]

I am already a dumpster diver,

i am way ahead of this game. lol

The American economy is mostly a service & financial fraud economy,
that is why oil price fluctuations have very little impact.

[Cat slave]

Sorry I missed the point you were asking. Cat

For me iras are saving accounts only and dont belong in markets so I didnt get it.
As far as recouping or not ,market can go either way


Well, thanks for sharing your ideas. Our house is paid for, all vehicles and
we have no credit card debt. We live in the country and can grow stuff,
learn to eat "game", ugh, burn wood, purify water from the nearby lake,
etc. But, as most everyone else, weve dropped about half in our investment
account. All gains have been lost and we are into "our own" money. I dont
know whether to bail, take the tax bite, put in a bank...I really have distrust
of them anymore.....or take it, convert it to coins, all silver, bury it or what?

LOL....I know how redneck that must sound but hey, I think the whole
thing is going to blow up....figuratively of course, or maybe not, who knows
anymore.

If BO starts that preaching about raising capital gains again, its a done deal.
Jerk it, take the bite and dig our heels in for the crash.

[Cat slave]

IMO, liquidity should be the key word here. We are well diversified but Im
thinking that means diddly squat in this climate and how can we believe anything guaranteed by a fed that cant walk and chew gum at the same time?
And is in the back pockets of gawd only knows who and its not American interests. Thats all I know for sure anymore.:disbelief:

[Mr, gone]

The american dollar does not have a drop of liquid left in it anymore. The fractional reserve sytem has turned this once rain forest of wealth in to a desert.

[Cat slave]

OK, would coins be of any value????? Instead of paper monopoly money?

[Dale escondido]

OK, would coins be of any value????? Instead of paper monopoly money?

I think some.
I kept cash for bills for a few years, not sure if the metals I bought are that smart but where should I put it?
There are high premiums on gold and silver, forget palladium its ridiculous.
The paper speculators control many times the amount of metals in existence, so physicial gold and silvers have become somewhat of a problem to aquire without large premiums.
I wont buy from the 6-8 weeks delivery sources so I probably pay the most.
I believe you are in the best posistion of all from the explanation of your sit.
I lived rural kansas for years and hunting could be rough source of food if there was much competition, so I would barter with coins.
I am stuck in san diego by my business and all this equiptment I paid for and with no value right now.
There are european groups buying up us interests now if you are willing to sell 20 cents on the dollar:mad:

[Cat slave]

I think some.
I kept cash for bills for a few years, not sure if the metals I bought are that smart but where should I put it?
There are high premiums on gold and silver, forget palladium its ridiculous.
The paper speculators control many times the amount of metals in existence, so physicial gold and silvers have become somewhat of a problem to aquire without large premiums.
I wont buy from the 6-8 weeks delivery sources so I probably pay the most.
I believe you are in the best posistion of all from the explanation of your sit.
I lived rural kansas for years and hunting could be rough source of food if there was much competition, so I would barter with coins.
I am stuck in san diego by my business and all this equiptment I paid for and with no value right now.
There are european groups buying up us interests now if you are willing to sell 20 cents on the dollar:mad:

Im thinking more with each passing day this is the time to squirrel away
a stash of coins. I can see paper money being worthless but coins have
to be worth something even in the worst circumstances.

People like you who have invested in precious metals may be the survivors.
Ive never really understood the gold thing past it retaining some worth which
if no bodys got any $$, who would buy it? You see I am dreadfully challenged
in the financial world!!!!

Bartering could well be the only way to survive what I think we face.
A lot of it goes on up in here anyway. One hand washes the other,
trade talents and projects and survive. LOL....hey, moonshine could
become valuable:D

This is a really scary time to be in business....I hope yours survives.
I look for this to go really bad really soon.

"Buying up interest"? Like debt, investments or what? Id be more than
happy to see my $$ go up in smoke before Id sell it for nothing but pennies.

[Dale escondido]

Buying up?
I can only speak of personal experience on this as usually this is under the radar stuff.
There is an industry magazine call the converter for my trade, european investors thru brokers are making offers on US factorys of certain size.
Before the economy got weak the offers were inflated.
My friend who had six car washes was offered 200% of their value by an arab investment group a few years ago. He first turned them down but when he lost his house in the fires out here he decided to relocate so accepted.

[Mr, gone]

Cat slave,

Only coins that were pressed before 1963 are solid copper or silver. The worthless crap they make know is either nickel or aluminum, with a very thin plating on them.:D

[Cat slave]

Wonder why that doesnt come as a surprise???

[Cat slave]

Buying up?
I can only speak of personal experience on this as usually this is under the radar stuff.
There is an industry magazine call the converter for my trade, european investors thru brokers are making offers on US factorys of certain size.
Before the economy got weak the offers were inflated.
My friend who had six car washes was offered 200% of their value by an arab investment group a few years ago. He first turned them down but when he lost his house in the fires out here he decided to relocate so accepted.


Thats grim!

[disrupter]

pennies are worth more than a penny's worth of copper,

although it IS illegal to melt them down.

Hmmm, the poor man's ready access to the commodities market?
no brokers, no exorbitant storage fees.

Damn! this sounds kind of good, lol.

The one problem might be [the low] density of value.

[Dale escondido]

pennies are worth more than a penny's worth of copper,

although it IS illegal to melt them down.

Hmmm, the poor man's ready access to the commodities market?
no brokers, no exorbitant storage fees.

Damn! this sounds kind of good, lol.

The one problem might be [the low] density of value.

Yeah I know, I have heard it cost more than a penny to make them.
But the new pennies are just clad.

[disrupter]

Copper clad steel?

[fast.cash]

Last week saw the worldwide rout of the financial markets and squarely placed the current bear market among the worst in history.

Here is RON PAUL on the global financial crisis, the potential for economic depression and where we're headed. One of the few in Washington whose position on sound economics and the dangers of the Federal Reserve system have been remarkably consistent for decades. Since this is a website about direct response advertising and marketing and NOT economics or investing, it's interesting to note the FLOOD of searches by a rightfully nervous public.

Coincidentally, today, I entered my first protracted message board discussion (in years) about the present economic mess. If you can't get passionate and incredibly proactive about this potential, worldwide, economic catastrophe, then about what can you?
Understand, I hope we can steer the ship through this perilous sea to safe harbor, but it may be wise to start considering your 'PLAN B.'

My 'flame war' started by questioning the fundamental guarantee of the F.D.I.C. (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) of protecting depositors up to $100,000 at F.D.I.C institutions.

[Binky]

I'd arm yourself to teeth, when the bottom falls out of this thing it's going to be bad.

That is most certainly a grand idea. If we actually end up in the middle of a depression, (and it's looking like we will), it isn't going to be pretty, for sure.

[Cat slave]

Hey Binky! Hope alls well with you.
Where ya been?

[Dale escondido]

Those of us who have lived in small town america know that in an environment where people struggle daily,it brings out the best and worst in people.
I have now decided to buy back a property I had in kansas and invite family and close friends who need help to live there with us.
We will get by but the safety in numbers will be comforting.
My wife put in a quarter acre garden our first year and it was insane.
We gave food away constantly and canned till we had no more storage.
Although today at work there was a sign of some improvement with sales and maybe everything will get better.

[Hog Trash]

Those of us who have lived in small town america know that in an environment where people struggle daily,it brings out the best and worst in people.
I have now decided to buy back a property I had in kansas and invite family and close friends who need help to live there with us.
We will get by but the safety in numbers will be comforting.
My wife put in a quarter acre garden our first year and it was insane.
We gave food away constantly and canned till we had no more storage.
Although today at work there was a sign of some improvement with sales and maybe everything will get better.There's also lots of cattle roaming around Kansas and salt mines there too. Not a very woodsy state though, but dried cow chips are good fuel and don't forget a tornado shelter. :thumbsup:

[Dale escondido]

There's also lots of cattle roaming around Kansas and salt mines there too. Not a very woodsy state though, but dried cow chips are good fuel and don't forget a tornado shelter. :thumbsup:
In seven years I never saw a tornado.
We chased them when we heard they were close , but no score:lmao2:
Southeast corner where we will be has turkey deer and catfish.
Although I have NEVER been able to shoot a deer. Even when they are in my sights.
And yes buying a cow is easy there.

[Cat slave]

I know that I may have to become a carnivore again and theres no chance
of starving around here with the wildlife, cattle, goats, maybe someone needs
to get some chickens.....I could spring for that!

We are very rural....rather remote by some standards and there is so much
fire power around me, I dont have anything to worry about regarding security.
I think we are in a good place to be when this all falls down.

[Cat slave]

Those of us who have lived in small town america know that in an environment where people struggle daily,it brings out the best and worst in people.
I have now decided to buy back a property I had in kansas and invite family and close friends who need help to live there with us.
We will get by but the safety in numbers will be comforting.
My wife put in a quarter acre garden our first year and it was insane.
We gave food away constantly and canned till we had no more storage.
Although today at work there was a sign of some improvement with sales and maybe everything will get better.

Things are totally different in small town America. There is a very real
community and people help one another. I never imagined such a difference
from one part of the state to a hundred miles away....night and day difference.

Dale, I think youre right on about buying that property and forming your
own commune. Youre right, safety in numbers.....and in fire power!!!!

[Mr, gone]

Guess who will have the best chance of living the same quality of life if a great depression (no matter how great)hits?

The fucking Amish!!!:lmao2: These folks got it over a century ago when to stop complicating and polluting up their suroundings.

[Cat slave]

Hey, they really will!! Or will they?

Have you seen those commercials for Amish made mantles with heaters in them.
Funny how the commercial doesnt show men carving away with hand tools
and where do they get the heaters? Probably not from the back forty!
The end shows a couple of the heaters on the back of a horse drawn wagon
to imply, well, you know what they intend to imply....and hey, what about
the actual commercial? No low tech there. Alas, they too have been
contaminated by technology and power tools to say the least.:D

[Mr, gone]

That's all just marketing bullshit. The core lifestyle of these people has still remained the same. The Amish don't even use those things! Wood burning stoves are still their only source of heating (no electricity).

They may make the 'cabinets' only for those heaters and recieve monetary compensation for them. Though I'm confident that they only use this small amount of money to maybe buy building supplies, or some new hand tools. An industial company makes the heaters that go inside those wood cabinets.

[jobs home]

Tough-minded socioeconomic forecasts that, while in the alarmist tradition of Ravi Batra, Harry Browne, Adrian Day, etc, afford genuinely thoughtful perspectives on an arguably uncertain future. This time around, Davidson (founder of the National Taxpayers Union) and Rees-Mogg (ex-editor of the London Times) largely eschew the pitches for their investment advisory services that marred their Blood In The Streets (1987), sticking instead to what they call megapolitical analysis. Using this big-picture approach, the authors predict a deflationary depression for the global village by the turn of the century, if not sooner. Among other bleak outcomes, their epoch-spanning audit projects that the US will soon go the way of post-WW II Great Britain, with Japan tumbling after in relatively short order. The cold war was hot in economic terms, they point out, meaning its windup promises to create substantive dislocations in domestic as well as offshore markets. At a minimum, for example, Davidson and Rees-Mogg anticipate an end to de facto subsidies for the dollar. Concurrently, they assert, a secular trend to disorder has been gathering momentum throughout the world. At the local level, they predict, this drift could make New York like "a Gotham City without Batman." In the meantime, the welfare state is at grave risk as overextended industrial powers find themselves unable to replenish depleted financial resources with a real-estate crash in full force. Indeed, the authors insist that elected officials will probably deem it imperative to reduce the "unsustainable burdens of transfer payments...." The bottom line is chaotic and lawless during which those who can will flee metropolitan centers for exurban areas where they can live in peace and prosperity. A conjectural scenario that's as closely reasoned as it is deeply disturbing. (Kirkus Reviews) --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

[Binky]

I could see oil coming down a bit, if supply was dramatically increased. But considering a lot involves speculators, anything could happen. And the trend is up, with increasing worry about the security of the middle east region.

The Gold price could be artificially high, with some countries like Russia having started hoarding it a while back. Similar to the Hunt Brothers in the early 80s with Silver. The thing about Gold is, it has it's own "real" value, as opposed to paper notes. If money becomes worthless (if things get that bad), a commodity like Gold can still leave you the ability to survive.

I do believe there is a chance we could experience a depression. But I don't see it happening for only a year or two, if it does. Especially nowadays, when everything is so interconnected. If the US goes into a true depression, I feel the influence of it will have a global impact.

Although, that could be the plan of the powers that be. To establish a New Order, through the back door.


Ahh, there's the rub. To establish a New World Order. And bringing on a depression that may end up lasting several years, rather than one or two, has been the agenda of the powers that be for a long time. It all comes down to control. It's a game with them. They create certain events in order to manipulate everything. Including people. By the year 2020 there is absolutely no telling where the world will be at by then.

With the world connected globally, it's like a string of mountain climbers going up the side of a massive mountain. When the climber at the top looses his footing and falls, he is going to take all others connected under him right along for the ride down. Weee!

One thing for sure, it's been a wild ride so far and will prob'ly get crazier. Hold on to your britches!

[jobmaster]

Hi

I know that I may have to become a carnivore again and theres no chance
of starving around here with the wildlife, cattle, goats, maybe someone needs
to get some chickens.....I could spring for that and i thank u....


Staffing service (http://www.staffingpower.com)

Seo master (http://www.sentersoftech.com)http://sentersoftech.com/senter/happy.gif

[shae marks]

photo

Ya'll. it's called the business cycle. Make hay while the sunshines and be the ant, not the grasshopper. Shame they don't teach this in school anymore, and most parents do not practice it themselves.

Yes, it hurts. Our office has laid off 30% of staff. No one enjoys that. But it is our system and IT works for you if you not how to work IT. I won't launch into praise of Reaganism, but that was the lesson. Millions of us bounced off the bottoms of the 80s to join the middle class. My mom and dad were on free butter and cheese in 1982. I left the Rust Belt with $20 dollars and have worked my a** off everyday since. It hasn't been easy, but my family and I are firmly in the middle class and determined to stay there - have earned everything we have.

Make hay while the sunshines and don't let your debts exceed your ability to pay them back. Economics 101 people.

[mwillman]

People have been predicting Armageddon for 5000 years.
This nation will survive the economic and military problems we are facing.

If you want to spend you time running around in fear that the sky is falling that's your business but I don't recommend you waste to much time on it.
You could be using that time to actually make some money.

[Cat slave]

Hi

I know that I may have to become a carnivore again and theres no chance
of starving around here with the wildlife, cattle, goats, maybe someone needs
to get some chickens.....I could spring for that and i thank u....


Staffing service (http://www.staffingpower.com)

Seo master (http://www.sentersoftech.com)http://sentersoftech.com/senter/happy.gif

Hey...didnt I say that?????