China Jails Civil Rights Advocate

[disrupter]

China is arming genocide in Sudan,
They are killing people & the culture of Tibet,
Now this.

Bush will never make any kind of stand or statement against them,
after all he is a torturing war criminal with his own outlaw gulag at Gitmo.

China jails vocal civil activist
A Chinese court has jailed a prominent civil rights activist who dedicated himself to chronicling the plight of other dissidents, a move critics say was to muzzle dissent before the 2008 Olympic Games.

Hu Jia, an outspoken campaigner, was sentenced on Thursday to three years and six months in jail.

He was convicted of "incitement to subvert state power" in a one-day trial last month.

The sentencing comes less than two weeks after another government critic, Yang Chunlin, was jailed five years on similar charges.

The verdict against Hu, 34, also comes amid international pressure over the Chinese government's handling of a crackdown on more than three weeks of unrest in Tibet.

The ruling drew criticisms from the international community and human rights groups who said China has regularly used the subversion of state power charge as a tool to silence critics.

'Scapegoat'

Rights groups said Beijing officials were using Hu, one of China's most active rights activists, as a scapegoat in a campaign to silence dissent ahead of the world's biggest sporting event.

His wife, Zeng Jinyan, 24, who recently gave birth to their first child and herself a prominent rights activist, said the verdict was the culmination of four years of harassment by authorities.

"He's been under surveillance, been kidnapped. He's been put under house arrest and now they have sentenced him to three and a half years.

"This is irrational and unfair," she said outside the courthouse, breaking down in tears.

'Innocent'

Hu's mother, who did not want to give her name, said her son was innocent of subversion.

"The evidence they had was six articles posted on the internet. I cannot figure out how this is inciting subversion of the government," she said.

"Hu Jia will never regret what he did. I am very proud of what my son has done. He was found guilty of speaking his mind."

Li Fangping, the activist's lawyer, said the verdict was unjust and described the sentence as "unacceptable".

"The evidence was publishing articles in and outside of China and accepting interviews with the foreign press," Li said outside the court, adding that he would advise Hu to file an appeal.

US 'dismayed'

In an immediate response, the US said the charge against Hu was "specious" and called on China to improve its record on human rights ahead of the Beijing Games in August.

Susan Stevenson, the embassy spokeswoman in Beijing, said the US was "dismayed" by the verdict.

"In this Olympic year, we urge China to seize the opportunity to put its best face forward and take steps to improve its record on human rights and religious freedom," she told the AFP news agency.

The European Unionalso criticised the verdict and called for Hu's immediate release.

Speaking to AFP, William Fingleton, the bloc's spokesman in Beijing, said Hu should never have gone on trial.

"We said very clearly before the trial that he should not have been detained in the first place and that he should be released, and this remains our position."http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1B5F4035-6692-4504-86BC-29E59DFDDBDA.htm

Bush & China,
different shades of totalitarianism.

[kres24GT]

Your intolerance for other cultures is disgusting.

[Democratic Socialist]

The United States government has a golden opportunity to crack down on this totalitarian regime, but will they embrace it? Of course not. We can not only boycott the Olympics, but we may be able to convince corporate sponsors to bail out, as well. But again, it won’t happen. George W. Bush doesn’t have the balls to make such decisions.

[Moby]

China owns more then 10% of the USA debt. They received $trillions of US dollars since Bush took office. If they allowed their currency to float to 150% of the US dollar (where it should be) then the USA would have hyper inflation. If China starts dumping US bonds then the USD would drop even farther and faster then it has been.

We can't even boycott the Olympics as we sold our country to China just to make the inflation numbers good for a few years.

In 2000 we had some leverage with China. Today, China has the leverage with us.

[kres24GT]

China owns more then 10% of the USA debt. They received $trillions of US dollars since Bush took office. If they allowed their currency to float to 150% of the US dollar (where it should be) then the USA would have hyper inflation. If China starts dumping US bonds then the USD would drop even farther and faster then it has been.

We can't even boycott the Olympics as we sold our country to China just to make the inflation numbers good for a few years.

In 2000 we had some leverage with China. Today, China has the leverage with us.


Big government has its costs. The people want big government, but don't want to pay for it. Not hard to see why people have favored this approach. Economic ignorance is one of the mot important tools of the politcians.

[disrupter]

kres, "Your intolerance for other cultures is disgusting"

That is a facetious comment i take it?

Or do you see rape-totalitarianism as a 'culture'?

[kres24GT]

kres, "Your intolerance for other cultures is disgusting"

That is a facetious comment i take it?

Or do you see rape-totalitarianism as a 'culture'?


You yourself favor a totalitarian fascist state.

[disrupter]

I am a totalitarian fascist only on those issues upon which our survival as a species & planet depend.

Beyond that a well informed democracy calls the shots.

Personally on other issues i am a clean market capitalist.

Transparency is essential.

Markets & industries that operate reasonably clean & honestly can do so without regulations,
Those that fail get increasing regulation until they manage to meet some reasonable minimal bar.

[kres24GT]

I am a totalitarian fascist only on those issues upon which our survival as a species & planet depend.

Beyond that a well informed democracy calls the shots.

Personally on other issues i am a clean market capitalist.

Transparency is essential.

Markets & industries that operate reasonably clean & honestly can do so without regulations,
Those that fail get increasing regulation until they manage to meet some reasonable minimal bar.


Because you are right and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. Others beleive the same as you. Once you open the door for your beliefs to be forced on me via government, you leave it open for others to force their beliefs on you.

[disrupter]

When my beliefs are based in evidentiary facts does that not give them more credence than baseless [sheer faith] beliefs? Especially when i did not come to them until After observation & scrutiny of facts?

I am expected to act suicidally because of your inability to digest facts?

evidence should be a prisoner of faith?
and evidence should be murdered & buried whenever it offends faith?

What are the bases of your positions?

[kres24GT]

When my beliefs are based in evidentiary facts does that not give them more credence than baseless [sheer faith] beliefs? Especially when i did not come to them until After observation & scrutiny of facts?

I am expected to act suicidally because of your inability to digest facts?

evidence should be a prisoner of faith?
and evidence should be murdered & buried whenever it offends faith?

What are the bases of your positions?


If you beleive this you are more fascist than you realize. I don't want people telling me how to live my life, I don't want them telling me I should be relieved of my freedom for the good of others. Once you open that door, anyone can make an argument.

Black people commit a lot of crimes, put all black people in jail. The poor breeding so fast is going to cause welfare programs (including SS and Medicare/Medicaid) to become insolvent, force them to have abortions. Gay sex is more likely to spread disease, make gay sex illegal. When the game is "waht's best for everyone" there is no limit to the power and authority government can assume.

Anybody can come up with any nonsense and pass laws that relieve people of their freedom in the name of a better society.

You want to do this, but only when you agree with it. If you disagree with it, it's evil fascism, but if you do agree with it, it's a great thing.


You are more than happy to relieve people of their rights, their freedom, and force your beleifs upon them, stop being so critical of others who want to do the same.

[bigfootzx]

Hu Jia should consider himself lucky, lucky in that he will be free in less than four years. Labor activisits are still in prison from Tiananmen Square protests. That was 1989!! Hu Jia will return to the streets and Hu will have a stronger voice than today. I'd like to read his material, so far China has blocked access. It will be found, there are groups that copy chinese web posts as they are found, so long as its done offshore, the communist machine cannot shut it down.

[disrupter]

If things are fine granularly [specific to individuals] applied for society's thoughtful, fairly applied interests i don't have a big problem with them.

Should [non-self defensive] murderers be locked up or addressed in any way,
or do you truly believe in anarchy?

I bet you support jailing thieves & robbers,
isn't that a fascist imposition of societies norm on people just exercising their free will?

How is mob rule any less fascist? Lynching outlaws,
and maybe while we are at it a few ethnic minorities, or women who we have decided are 'impure' or have 'dishonored' their men in some obscure way?

What we are talking about is degree, & the reason or purpose for the imposition upon peoples lives.

Males instinctively impose their wills/desires through violence & intimidation.
Society must counter balance this with at least some shared, civilizing values.

When it comes to the survival of the species it is foolish NOT to impose restrictions.
I have always supported China's birth rate restrictions.
I only wish the entire globe would self-impose this,
but people are animals driven by instinct & cultural traditions & fantasies rather than rational empirical thinkers who craft their happiness around & among existing conditions.

I like free speech,
I am hopeful it & the free thinking it engenders will assist & inform a society why has to conform to some norms,
but when the shit is hitting the fan, we may not have time for this.
Intelligent people will comprehend, & gently but firmly self impose a certain discipline,
anyone who can not manage that on their own will simply have to be coerced or forced into it.

Potential is great, but sometimes immediate circumstances require immediate, succinct actions.
Potential may have to wait for another day, provided we can last that long.

[kres24GT]

If things are fine granularly [specific to individuals] applied for society's thoughtful, fairly applied interests i don't have a big problem with them.

Should [non-self defensive] murderers be locked up or addressed in any way,
or do you truly believe in anarchy?

I bet you support jailing thieves & robbers,
isn't that a fascist imposition of societies norm on people just exercising their free will?

How is mob rule any less fascist? Lynching outlaws,
and maybe while we are at it a few ethnic minorities, or women who we have decided are 'impure' or have 'dishonored' their men in some obscure way?

What we are talking about is degree, & the reason or purpose for the imposition upon peoples lives.

Males instinctively impose their wills/desires through violence & intimidation.
Society must counter balance this with at least some shared, civilizing values.

When it comes to the survival of the species it is foolish NOT to impose restrictions.
I have always supported China's birth rate restrictions.
I only wish the entire globe would self-impose this,
but people are animals driven by instinct & cultural traditions & fantasies rather than rational empirical thinkers who craft their happiness around & among existing conditions.

I like free speech,
I am hopeful it & the free thinking it engenders will assist & inform a society why has to conform to some norms,
but when the shit is hitting the fan, we may not have time for this.
Intelligent people will comprehend, & gently but firmly self impose a certain discipline,
anyone who can not manage that on their own will simply have to be coerced or forced into it.

Potential is great, but sometimes immediate circumstances require immediate, succinct actions.
Potential may have to wait for another day, provided we can last that long.


More nonsense. One's free will can't rob someone else of theirs. Regardless of what my beleifs are, you favor high levels of fascism and only when you agree with it. You want to force everyone, via government, to believe as you.

[bigfootzx]

What we are talking about is degree, & the reason or purpose for the imposition upon peoples lives.

Males instinctively impose their wills/desires through violence & intimidation.
Society must counter balance this with at least some shared, civilizing values.



The Chinese want to control all aspects of citizens including free speech, the continue to live in the dark ages of thier barbaric culture, yet they hav emade advances that muslims have failed to achieve. Jailing a man like this is wrong regardless. The more they push people into prison the greater the revolt.

So you think men are the only violent and manipulative ones, the prisons are full of women who used force to kill, rape, rob and attack other humans too.
Women are active supporters of communist china, no doubt they have used violence against those who want democracy.

[Moby]

What's fascinating is that many people on this board would love be able to force people into prison for not thinking as they do. Frank has stated so very clearly and media often attacks people for having differing views.

We may call China barbaric but a large portion of our own nation feels the same way. We're not that far off and we should be careful.

[bigfootzx]

They'd have to build new prisons to house all the protesters and conspiracy therorists verbally attacking the govt if this country turned on people like China does.

[Moby]

They'd have to build new prisons to house all the protesters and conspiracy therorists verbally attacking the govt if this country turned on people like China does.
You haven't been paying attention have you? They say they're for quarantine but they sure look like prisons. They were built through no bid contracts and guess who got those contracts.

We're already the most imprisoned society in the world. We can handle more.