Cops: 3rd-graders aimed to hurt teacher

[SirMoby]

What was most chilling about this is that I was watching the news and immediately after this report, they spoke about the Hamas puppet show that has a kid stabbing President Bush.

Do you see any similarities?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_re_us/children_s_plot_12

By RUSS BYNUM, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 13 minutes ago

WAYCROSS, Ga. - A group of third-graders plotted to attack their teacher, bringing a broken steak knife, handcuffs, duct tape and other items for the job and assigning children tasks including covering the windows and cleaning up afterward, police said Tuesday.

The plot by as many as nine boys and girls at Center Elementary School in south Georgia was a serious threat, Waycross Police Chief Tony Tanner said.

"We did not hear anybody say they intended to kill her, but could they have accidentally killed her? Absolutely," Tanner said. "We feel like if they weren't interrupted, there would have been an attempt. Would they have been successful? We don't know."

The children, ages 8 and 9, were apparently mad at the teacher because she had scolded one of them for standing on a chair, Tanner said. A prosecutor said they are too young to be charged with a crime under Georgia law.

School officials alerted police Friday after a pupil tipped off a teacher that a girl had brought a weapon to school, Tanner said.

Police seized a broken steak knife, handcuffs, duct tape, electrical and transparent tape, ribbons and a crystal paperweight from the students, who apparently intended to use them against the teacher, Tanner said.

Nine children have been given discipline up to and including long-term suspension, said Theresa Martin, spokeswoman for the Ware County school system. She would not be more specific but said none of the children had been back to school since the case came to light.

The purported target is a veteran educator who teaches third-grade students with learning disabilities including attention deficit disorder, delayed development and hyperactivity, friends and parents said.

The scheme involved a division of roles, Tanner said. One child's job was to cover windows so no one could see outside, he said. Another was supposed to clean up after the attack.

"We're not sure at this point in the investigation how many of the students actually knew the intent was to hurt the teacher," Tanner said.

The parents of the students have cooperated with investigators, who aren't allowed to question the children without their parents' or guardians' consent, he said. Authorities have withheld the children's names.

Police expected to forward the results of their investigation to prosecutors, Tanner said.

Children in Georgia can't be charged with a crime unless they are at least 13, District Attorney Rick Currie said.

Martin told The Florida Times-Union of Jacksonville, Fla., that administrators would follow school system policy and state law in disciplining the students.

"From what I understand, they were considered pretty good kids," Martin said. "But we have to take this seriously, whether they were serious or not about carrying this through, and that's what we did."

Four mothers of other third-grade students at Center Elementary called for the immediate expulsion of the suspected plotters.

Stacy Carter and Deana Hiott both cited school system policy stating that any student who brings "anything reasonably considered to be a weapon" is to be expelled for at least the remainder of the school year.

"We don't want our children around them," Carter told the Times-Union. "The one with the knife could have stabbed my child or someone else's child at lunch or out on the playground."

"This is an isolated incident, an aberration. ... We have good kids," Center Principal Angie Coleman told the newspaper.

[Jesse Hemingway]

Evildoers :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Independent Harry]

You want to get an insight on this, read a book called The Indigo Children. It talks about the new type of kids that are being born, and its in my mind the major reason why the school system is failing. The school system worked for the past generation of kids. But these new kids (myself being one of the first of them) don't respond to the same type of learning techniques. It's also the reason why ridillin and other ADD and ADHD drugs are on the rise.

[Cat slave]

Interesting. I think there is more to it than that though. Violence in the entertainment sector, desensitization to blood and death, blurring of lines
between entertainment and reality and the teachers unions havent helped.
The union requires nothing but support and dues from the teachers and we
have systems full of lazy, unqualified people with no need to account for their
lack luster performances. Add to that the "feel good" shift in society in that it
is more important to feel good about yourself than to actually take and pass
a test that reflects success in learning subjects....after all, if you make a
good grade then you are responsible for making mediocre students feel.....
uncomfortable! So acheivers are drug down to make everyone ...comfortable.
It became unacceptable to have discipline in schools and that was a mistake.

[Cat slave]

With kids, a little fear is a good thing!

[Independent Harry]

Interesting. I think there is more to it than that though. Violence in the entertainment sector, desensitization to blood and death, blurring of lines
between entertainment and reality and the teachers unions havent helped.
The union requires nothing but support and dues from the teachers and we
have systems full of lazy, unqualified people with no need to account for their
lack luster performances. Add to that the "feel good" shift in society in that it
is more important to feel good about yourself than to actually take and pass
a test that reflects success in learning subjects....after all, if you make a
good grade then you are responsible for making mediocre students feel.....
uncomfortable! So acheivers are drug down to make everyone ...comfortable.
It became unacceptable to have discipline in schools and that was a mistake

For the shift in kids mentality, its not about a feel good system. The kids being born these days, have a higher level of awareness and an innate sense of who they are at an early age. Which means they dont respond to the threat based system we have. They are more like adults in their thought process, and memorization and just sitting in a classroom boars the hell out of them. A new teaching technique where they get to design a majority of their own curiculum is needed.

[Independent Harry]

With kids, a little fear is a good thing!

no its not, not with these kids. These kids will see through any attempt at fear based manipulations and they will rebel against you. You need to be up front with them and explain to them the reasons for doing things. Parenting techniques of old will not work and will cause the same type of behavior outlined in this article.

Violence has always been a part of society. Its nothing new.

[SirMoby]

While we could discuss the issues with our educational system, I think what's interesting is that kids here in America wanted to hurt and possibly kill an authority figure and we look in disgust as Hamas is teaching children the same thing that our kids are already thinking about.

It's the way that we feel about the puppet show and our own kids that's of concern to me.

[David Alexander]

I read about this a couple of days ago. It’s very disturbing, to say the least. What’s even more disturbing is that they may be too young to be sent to a juvenile detention center.

If they can’t lock these little boogers up, how can we expect they won’t do it again?

[bigfootzx]

And they said whipping kids was not the right way to discipline them, well the people who changed the laws should be whipped now. All they suceeded in was making it a crime so everyone could be prosecuted, bad abusive teachers, nannies, parents etc....... as well as prosecuting a parent who uses a light to moderate force. Yet the majority of kids who were whipped knew they had limitations and they grew up normal.

Today we have a percentage of snot nosed degenerates who look down on the world and they think they have no limitations. Teaching kids what is right and wrong has its limitations, knowing there are consequences for bad actions will reinforce the notion that kids do have limitations. All we need is a system of reporting discipline actions.

Instead we have kids today who know they can call a lawyer as quickly as they can get respect by calling DFCT's. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
Give'm a murderous video game and they'll learn how to take you out!!!!
Screw the law, the law that protects kids was designed by whiney passives who used child abusers as a yard stick to say all discipline is wrong.

The law was more about controlling all people and yes it protect kids from abusive parents, teachers, etc...... but we all know it takes time to know what goes on behind closed doors. I've read an FBI report a while back that suggests the lack of discipline may have lead to child killers, college shootings we've experienced in recent years. The same kind of people who said spanking is wrong also think the Harry Potter books and selling products with sugar in them at school fund raiser bake sales is just wrong. It's more about controling us and manipulation of the school system.

Spank that ass and get some respect, just don't over do it!!!

[Smurf-Herder]

You want to get an insight on this, read a book called The Indigo Children. It talks about the new type of kids that are being born, and its in my mind the major reason why the school system is failing. The school system worked for the past generation of kids. But these new kids (myself being one of the first of them) don't respond to the same type of learning techniques. It's also the reason why ridillin and other ADD and ADHD drugs are on the rise.

Indigo Children?

I found them on a few weird sites.

In relation to Crystalline Children, Indigo Children, Star Kids .... and Alien genetic manipulation. They're supposed to be the next step, in tune with higher energies.

[David Alexander]

And they said whipping kids was not the right way to discipline them, well the people who changed the laws should be whipped now. All they suceeded in was making it a crime so everyone could be prosecuted, bad abusive teachers, nannies, parents etc....... as well as prosecuting a parent who uses a light to moderate force. Yet the majority of kids who were whipped knew they had limitations and they grew up normal.

Today we have a percentage of snot nosed degenerates who look down on the world and they think they have no limitations. Teaching kids what is right and wrong has its limitations, knowing there are consequences for bad actions will reinforce the notion that kids do have limitations. All we need is a system of reporting discipline actions.

Instead we have kids today who know they can call a lawyer as quickly as they can get respect by calling DFCT's. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
Give'm a murderous video game and they'll learn how to take you out!!!!
Screw the law, the law that protects kids was designed by whiney passives who used child abusers as a yard stick to say all discipline is wrong.

The law was more about controlling all people and yes it protect kids from abusive parents, teachers, etc...... but we all know it takes time to know what goes on behind closed doors. I've read an FBI report a while back that suggests the lack of discipline may have lead to child killers, college shootings we've experienced in recent years. The same kind of people who said spanking is wrong also think the Harry Potter books and selling products with sugar in them at school fund raiser bake sales is just wrong. It's more about controling us and manipulation of the school system.

Spank that ass and get some respect, just don't over do it!!!

I think Ted Bundy was spanked as a kid...:thumbsup:

[bigfootzx]

I think Ted Bundy was spanked as a kid...:thumbsup:

At least Bundy grew up before he started killing. Today killers are a lot
younger. And they expect to be treated as minors. The problems with kids like these would be killers cannot be solved with pills. They need a lot of therapy and counciling and their parents need it too. Many problem kids will grow up and become educated and they will still have issues with authority. As will the majority who will become whiners at the work place.

There are corporate studies that show today's graduates expect to be rewarded for showing up on time, for finishing assignments and for meeting deadline. They expect entitlements for doing what other generations did and other generations felt a true sense of accomplishment by simply doing what is expected. The reward was a paycheck, bonus and eventually a promotion.
Today some companies pass out stuffed dolls to younger workers.

Today supervisors have to act like a Nanny and reward the brat, those kids are the first to be fired too thankfully!!! Kids are way off track and the wacko liberals and some moderates think we should give graduates a little gift just for doing what they are already paid for, fuck that! Work or you will be replaced with someone who is more intelligent, confident and capable of making decisins without expecting a reward.

[Cat slave]

no its not, not with these kids. These kids will see through any attempt at fear based manipulations and they will rebel against you. You need to be up front with them and explain to them the reasons for doing things. Parenting techniques of old will not work and will cause the same type of behavior outlined in this article.

Violence has always been a part of society. Its nothing new.

LOL.....had many teenagers there Harry??? Talk is nothing to them and they
will look right into your eyes and lie like a dog. Talk??? LOL????:lmao2:

[Cat slave]

At least Bundy grew up before he started killing. Today killers are a lot
younger. And they expect to be treated as minors. The problems with kids like these would be killers cannot be solved with pills. They need a lot of therapy and counciling and their parents need it too. Many problem kids will grow up and become educated and they will still have issues with authority. As will the majority who will become whiners at the work place.

There are corporate studies that show today's graduates expect to be rewarded for showing up on time, for finishing assignments and for meeting deadline. They expect entitlements for doing what other generations did and other generations felt a true sense of accomplishment by simply doing what is expected. The reward was a paycheck, bonus and eventually a promotion.
Today some companies pass out stuffed dolls to younger workers.

Today supervisors have to act like a Nanny and reward the brat, those kids are the first to be fired too thankfully!!! Kids are way off track and the wacko liberals and some moderates think we should give graduates a little gift just for doing what they are already paid for, fuck that! Work or you will be replaced with someone who is more intelligent, confident and capable of making decisins without expecting a reward.


Yeah, I was spanked and it got my attention and I didnt wind up killing people. Neither did any of my spanked friends....sometimes the tried and
true ways work better than a theory.

[SirMoby]

Kids are way off track and the wacko liberals and some moderates think we should give graduates a little gift just for doing what they are already paid for, fuck that! Work or you will be replaced with someone who is more intelligent, confident and capable of making decisins without expecting a reward.
Or become part of the right political party, go to Liberty University and end up getting a cushy job with the administration.

[bigfootzx]

Or become part of the right political party, go to Liberty University and end up getting a cushy job with the administration.
After I logged off, I thought about right wing wackos who would fit the criteria too.

[bigfootzx]

LOL.....had many teenagers there Harry??? Talk is nothing to them and they
will look right into your eyes and lie like a dog. Talk??? LOL????:lmao2:

Explaining to kids why what they did is wrong will only amplify their desire to push the envelope. Harry must think all those "No Fear" signs in teenage car windshields really means something. Today the reason old school parenting techniques do not work is because they use passive/submissive methods that teach the kid to be agreeable and they learn something from the event. But they also learn mom and dad ain't got the balls to take them on head to head, and the kids become new age rebels .........without a clue.

[SirMoby]

LOL.....had many teenagers there Harry??? Talk is nothing to them and they
will look right into your eyes and lie like a dog. Talk??? LOL????:lmao2:
Weren't these third graders? 8 and 9 years old.

Not all teenagers are the same. That would be like saying all older women are the same.

[Independent Harry]

LOL.....had many teenagers there Harry??? Talk is nothing to them and they
will look right into your eyes and lie like a dog. Talk??? LOL????:lmao2:

Did I say teenagers, I'm talkinga bout the majority of children being born today.

really, you've never looked your teenager in the face and lied like a dog, i doubt it. One should not throw stones in a glass house. Cynical about your children means raising cynical children there.

[Independent Harry]

Explaining to kids why what they did is wrong will only amplify their desire to push the envelope. Harry must think all those "No Fear" signs in teenage car windshields really means something. Today the reason old school parenting techniques do not work is because they use passive/submissive methods that teach the kid to be agreeable and they learn something from the event. But they also learn mom and dad ain't got the balls to take them on head to head, and the kids become new age rebels .........without a clue.

Yes thats it, you;re absolutely right, i mean there hasn't been violence for thousands of years until now, and teenagers haven't thought they were invincible until recently you moron.

The reason old school parenting techniques don't work is because the kids today are being born with a greater understanding of who they are, and an innate purpose in life. If you treat them like kids, the will turn on you. Treat them like adults, explain to them the difference between right and wrong, come up with a system of punishment that is agreed upon by all parties, and you would see amazing results.

[disrupter]

this was published on April 1st,

you know, April Fool's day.

Does that leave anyone else questioning it?

[bigfootzx]

Yes thats it, you;re absolutely right, i mean there hasn't been violence for thousands of years until now, and teenagers haven't thought they were invincible until recently you moron.

The reason old school parenting techniques don't work is because the kids today are being born with a greater understanding of who they are, and an innate purpose in life. If you treat them like kids, the will turn on you. Treat them like adults, explain to them the difference between right and wrong, come up with a system of punishment that is agreed upon by all parties, and you would see amazing results.

Moron, I agree you are a moron, you're always going to the left or right, so what's this rant of yours got to do with world history, nothing!! Parent today have not improved upon bonding with kids anymore than previous generations.

Treat them like kids and they will turn on you, treat like adults and what, they expect what?? They resent you for lack of disciplining them, they lose respect for their parents because they now they did something wrong and the discipline is don't do that little johnny, now be good, okay!! yea right mom, gimme gimme gimme ! Kids will take you for granted !

Amazing results with this new age crap is all theory, the results are nearly identical. We see a small increase in kids going to college and an increase in drop outs too. Lower the testing standards and make them think they are smarter than they really are, wow, lets program the next generation too, we need more dummies to replace the current crop of politicians with more narcasistic punks from todays graduates.

Saying todays kids have a greater understanding of who they are is equivelent to saying all older people were born with a closed mind, total nonsense liberal mumbo jumbo, nothing more. Innate purpose in life, what a hoot and their purpose is what, American Idol, the iPod or video games, todays kids have more distractions and more money being thown at them to keep the system going.

Today's parenting has different methods but the results are not impressive, you are talking out your ass again if you think todays kids are better prepared. Better prepared to kill, rape, rob and speed down the streets and they have parents who will say "little Johnny didn't know it was bad, we'll have a talk with him tonight, please remove the handcuffs, we promise he'll never do it again". I'll spare you the lawyers response, go read up on young killers and the FBI reports on todays kids.

Excusing such actions with talk is not working, in fact, today's kids have parents acting as enablers to excuse bad behavior so the FBI have it right, discipline with talk is failing. Never saw a kid with a gun in my school. blah blah blah harry you got it wrong, oh wait, you were raised on such enabling mumbo jumbo, so maybe you turned out all right, but what about these 3rd graders ? Easy to excuse parents today when you don't understand the problem.



http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=98030XXXXX

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r990421.htm
Less that 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school.
65% of school-associated violent deaths were students; 11% were teachers or other staff members; and 23% were community members who were killed on school property.
83% of school homicide or suicide victims were males.
28% of the fatal injuries happened inside the school building; 36% occurred outdoors on school property; and 35% occurred off campus.
The deaths included in this study occurred in 25 states across the country and happened in both primary and secondary schools and communities of all sizes.

We're talking about violent kids with a predisposition to violence, not the next class valadictorian, try to comprenhend the difference. Violent kids have histories that lead up to thier first crime. And a lot of non-violent kids will grow up to be as bad as the current crop of corporate and political leaders same as the last generation.

[Independent Harry]

Moron, I agree you are a moron, you're always going to the left or right, so what's this rant of yours got to do with world history, nothing!! Parent today have not improved upon bonding with kids anymore than previous generations.

Treat them like kids and they will turn on you, treat like adults and what, they expect what?? They resent you for lack of disciplining them, they lose respect for their parents because they now they did something wrong and the discipline is don't do that little johnny, now be good, okay!! yea right mom, gimme gimme gimme ! Kids will take you for granted !

That's your problem, you think treating them like adults is just letting them go their way. Adults face consequences for their actions. There are laws and rules and we know what those rules are. Parents change the laws and rules as they please, lie to their kids and don't set a good example. What you have is kids that don't respect hte parents because they are hipocrites. Which is the major problem with kids today.

Amazing results with this new age crap is all theory, the results are nearly identical. We see a small increase in kids going to college and an increase in drop outs too. Lower the testing standards and make them think they are smarter than they really are, wow, lets program the next generation too, we need more dummies to replace the current crop of politicians with more narcasistic punks from todays graduates.

I'm sorry, but lower testing scores are not the new age answer. The new age answer is to revamp the school system entirely. that is the government answer. The new age answer is to let kids learn, kids naturally love to learn and are curious. Let them design a course structure for themselves, let them learn about what interests them. When was the last time you used calculus? Do you even remember anything from history class. Now what do you rememember about the courses you loved to learn from? Quite a bit. You let kids do that, it will change the dynamic of learning completely.

Saying todays kids have a greater understanding of who they are is equivelent to saying all older people were born with a closed mind, total nonsense liberal mumbo jumbo, nothing more. Innate purpose in life, what a hoot and their purpose is what, American Idol, the iPod or video games, todays kids have more distractions and more money being thown at them to keep the system going.

Then you do not understand the concept of evolution. You have an issue with the programming that is being created by ADULTS? Then take it up with them, last i checked kids weren't creating these shows. The adults were. idiot.

Today's parenting has different methods but the results are not impressive, you are talking out your ass again if you think todays kids are better prepared. Better prepared to kill, rape, rob and speed down the streets and they have parents who will say "little Johnny didn't know it was bad, we'll have a talk with him tonight, please remove the handcuffs, we promise he'll never do it again". I'll spare you the lawyers response, go read up on young killers and the FBI reports on todays kids.

Explain to me how kids today are better or worse than kids from a generation or two generations ago. Its the same thing, I'm not talking about what people do today, I'm talking about a complete shift in the paradigm of parenting. I'm talking about holding kids responsible, but also, using methods that ensure a majority of people never get there.

Excusing such actions with talk is not working, in fact, today's kids have parents acting as enablers to excuse bad behavior so the FBI have it right, discipline with talk is failing. Never saw a kid with a gun in my school. blah blah blah harry you got it wrong, oh wait, you were raised on such enabling mumbo jumbo, so maybe you turned out all right, but what about these 3rd graders ? Easy to excuse parents today when you don't understand the problem.

d

http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=98030XXXXX

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r990421.htm
Less that 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school.
65% of school-associated violent deaths were students; 11% were teachers or other staff members; and 23% were community members who were killed on school property.
83% of school homicide or suicide victims were males.
28% of the fatal injuries happened inside the school building; 36% occurred outdoors on school property; and 35% occurred off campus.
The deaths included in this study occurred in 25 states across the country and happened in both primary and secondary schools and communities of all sizes.

We're talking about violent kids with a predisposition to violence, not the next class valadictorian, try to comprenhend the difference. Violent kids have histories that lead up to thier first crime. And a lot of non-violent kids will grow up to be as bad as the current crop of corporate and political leaders same as the last generation.

We are talking about kids that come from homes with a predisposition to violence. Kids do waht they see and are taught. So your saying that these kids are popping out of the womb with knives ready to slash the doctor huh. Yeah, that sounds like your fantasy.

The reason they grow up that way is because thats what they are taught. Or thats the method of protection they created for themselves. Again, I'm talking not about how kids are taught now, where you got that from I don't know. I'm talking about how these kids should be taught. My guess is you're far removed from any children and reality about what the world is like for them.

[Frankg]

If this happened in Gaza it would be on the back page, remember , 3rd graders who live in the Gaza strip , West Bank , Syria and Palestine already know how to to fire an AK-47, we need to start teaching our kids how to defend themselves against these future terrorists and we need to start now !!

[Independent Harry]

If this happened in Gaza it would be on the back page, remember , 3rd graders who live in the Gaza strip , West Bank , Syria and Palestine already know how to to fire an AK-47, we need to start teaching our kids how to defend themselves against these future terrorists and we need to start now !!

You really do have a 1 track mind huh frankie...

[bigfootzx]

We are talking about kids that come from homes with a predisposition to violence. Kids do waht they see and are taught. So your saying that these kids are popping out of the womb with knives ready to slash the doctor huh. Yeah, that sounds like your fantasy.

The reason they grow up that way is because thats what they are taught. Or thats the method of protection they created for themselves. Again, I'm talking not about how kids are taught now, where you got that from I don't know. I'm talking about how these kids should be taught. My guess is you're far removed from any children and reality about what the world is like for them.

You are obvioulsy younger than me (34) and too closed minded to understand the concept of education, keep on excusing the poorly run school systems designed to let dangerous kids slip thru the cracks while glad handing others with praise. Every problem kid has a history that starts at home and the behavior can be profiled afterthefact and it has shown time and time again that the lack of dicipline in homes and school as well as todays shoot'em culture of movies and video games is in fact the root cause of the downfall of dangerous kids.

You are totally clueless as to what kids need and you have no idea because you're so pig headed and hellbent on subversive cults that you've lost your grip on reality. In your world raising the sissy's and murderers can be done under the same roof with the same methods. Go teach in the Bronx, don't forget to wear a sheet of metal under your shirt!!

Kids with a predisposition to violence, now finally you attempt to narrow down and go back to topic, finally. Yet you still insist "If you treat them like kids, the will turn on you" If they turn on you, you must be firm and use something stronger than the Mr. Rogers Neighborhood approach that you insist upon..........weak and pathetic is how kids like this would see you.
Weak as koolaid in fact!!

"What you have is kids that don't respect hte parents because they are hipocrites. Which is the major problem with kids today"
Can you name a time in the history of the world when kids were not like this at some point?? No, again you deviate, waste of time.

"I'm sorry, but lower testing scores are not the new age answer. The new age answer is to revamp the school system entirely. that is the government answer. The new age answer is to let kids learn, kids naturally love to learn and are curious. Let them design a course structure for themselves, let them learn about what interests them."
They weakened test questions to incease the pass fail rate, this has been discusses in many states, anothe rband aid fix. At best kids may structure a few courses, but they still have to take the core learning courses, if they have abandoned that then we can expect more job outsourcing in the USA.
All kids are curious, but when were they not, you talk like today kids are better taught, yet kid violence is up and so are drop out rates, check the facts drop out rates are being discussed right now!!!

"Then you do not understand the concept of evolution. You have an issue with the programming that is being created by ADULTS? Then take it up with them, last i checked kids weren't creating these shows. The adults were. idiot."
Evolution todays kid criminals and rebels have devolved into less than my generation, the statistics prove me right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go read the FBI reports on violence in schools, it is very alarming!! If I can find it I'll post it here. You can't excuse bad kids and think talk is the best solution, lack of discipline has created more criminal youths than ever before!!

[Independent Harry]

You are obvioulsy younger than me (34) and too closed minded to understand the concept of education, keep on excusing the poorly run school systems designed to let dangerous kids slip thru the cracks while glad handing others with praise. Every problem kid has a history that starts at home and the behavior can be profiled afterthefact and it has shown time and time again that the lack of dicipline in homes and school as well as todays shoot'em culture of movies and video games is in fact the root cause of the downfall of dangerous kids.

You are totally clueless as to what kids need and you have no idea because you're so pig headed and hellbent on subversive cults that you've lost your grip on reality. In your world raising the sissy's and murderers can be done under the same roof with the same methods. Go teach in the Bronx, don't forget to wear a sheet of metal under your shirt!!

Kids with a predisposition to violence, now finally you attempt to narrow down and go back to topic, finally. Yet you still insist "If you treat them like kids, the will turn on you" If they turn on you, you must be firm and use something stronger than the Mr. Rogers Neighborhood approach that you insist upon..........weak and pathetic is how kids like this would see you.
Weak as koolaid in fact!!

"What you have is kids that don't respect hte parents because they are hipocrites. Which is the major problem with kids today"
Can you name a time in the history of the world when kids were not like this at some point?? No, again you deviate, waste of time.

"I'm sorry, but lower testing scores are not the new age answer. The new age answer is to revamp the school system entirely. that is the government answer. The new age answer is to let kids learn, kids naturally love to learn and are curious. Let them design a course structure for themselves, let them learn about what interests them."
They weakened test questions to incease the pass fail rate, this has been discusses in many states, anothe rband aid fix. At best kids may structure a few courses, but they still have to take the core learning courses, if they have abandoned that then we can expect more job outsourcing in the USA.
All kids are curious, but when were they not, you talk like today kids are better taught, yet kid violence is up and so are drop out rates, check the facts drop out rates are being discussed right now!!!

"Then you do not understand the concept of evolution. You have an issue with the programming that is being created by ADULTS? Then take it up with them, last i checked kids weren't creating these shows. The adults were. idiot."
Evolution todays kid criminals and rebels have devolved into less than my generation, the statistics prove me right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go read the FBI reports on violence in schools, it is very alarming!! If I can find it I'll post it here. You can't excuse bad kids and think talk is the best solution, lack of discipline has created more criminal youths than ever before!!

Who is excusing anyone? I never at one point said to excuse these kids. My point was the school system that we currently have won't work for these types of kids being born. It will get worse and worse because they don't learn the same way.

The violence has to do with parents, yes, and the violence has to do somewhat with what they see on tv, but its not much different than going to see a hanging in the 1800's, or going to see a beheading, or in the roman times, going off to see the Christians fight the lions. I would argue that is more damaging beacuse it is real blood and gore. You seem to think that violent imagery being glorified is something new. It's not.

Kids will learn the core classes in pursuit of what they are interested in. Like for instance, if a child wants to learn about structural engineering, he will have to learn about other things as well, like math and physics. Those core concepts will come with any subject they choose to learn about. Most people spend the majority of their time in schools learning thngs they will never need, never want to know, need to know, or care to know. We turn kids into mindless memorizing robots, learning informatino for the sake of passing a test. That is meaningless, if we turn learning into soemthing they create, learn about subjects they love and want to learn, it would be a different enviroment. Kids would want to come to school, and I guarantee their interest will branch out into things like History, it will not be forced. It will be voulantary. Which means, they will retain more of the information.

It's like when I was a kid, my parents read to me every knight, before I went to bed. I developed a love of reading, because it was something fun dand exciting we did together. It wasn't forced, you have to read this, you have to read that. I was reading at a much higher level than most kids by the time I started grade school. Since I could read, I could learn. I spent time sucking up any books I could find and understand. I had a natural love for learning, which ALL kids have. You tap into that love, and it can produce amazing results. You try to contain it, force it in standard directions, then you have problems.

[bigfootzx]

Who is excusing anyone? I never at one point said to excuse these kids. My point was the school system that we currently have won't work for these types of kids being born. It will get worse and worse because they don't learn the same way.

The violence has to do with parents, yes, and the violence has to do somewhat with what they see on tv, but its not much different than going to see a hanging in the 1800's, or going to see a beheading, or in the roman times, going off to see the Christians fight the lions. I would argue that is more damaging beacuse it is real blood and gore. You seem to think that violent imagery being glorified is something new. It's not.

Kids will learn the core classes in pursuit of what they are interested in. Like for instance, if a child wants to learn about structural engineering, he will have to learn about other things as well, like math and physics. Those core concepts will come with any subject they choose to learn about. Most people spend the majority of their time in schools learning thngs they will never need, never want to know, need to know, or care to know. We turn kids into mindless memorizing robots, learning informatino for the sake of passing a test. That is meaningless, if we turn learning into soemthing they create, learn about subjects they love and want to learn, it would be a different enviroment. Kids would want to come to school, and I guarantee their interest will branch out into things like History, it will not be forced. It will be voulantary. Which means, they will retain more of the information.

It's like when I was a kid, my parents read to me every knight, before I went to bed. I developed a love of reading, because it was something fun dand exciting we did together. It wasn't forced, you have to read this, you have to read that. I was reading at a much higher level than most kids by the time I started grade school. Since I could read, I could learn. I spent time sucking up any books I could find and understand. I had a natural love for learning, which ALL kids have. You tap into that love, and it can produce amazing results. You try to contain it, force it in standard directions, then you have problems.

I know violent imigary is not new, but it is realitvely new to the gaming industry. When I graduated college Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers were all the rage, in the last 12 years its kill a cop, stab a ho and the hitman is cool. Many problems are linked directly and indirectly to hollywood and video game companies, they even produce counter studies to debunk those who say the negative effects are harming kids. They use the same techniques the tabacco industry used.

All BS, its all about the money. Rebel geeks love to rage against society with the same crap hollywood sells, kids are the target. Some kids need a little physical reinforcement to remind them they have limitations. Earn a teaching degree and get a teaching job in south central LA or the Bronx. Or find some of those teachers online and ask them if a little dicipline would help? Some kids will not repsond to words once they realize parents and teachers do not have the upper hand. We'll see how this story plays out once the parents are profiled.

[Independent Harry]

I know violent imigary is not new, but it is realitvely new to the gaming industry. When I graduated college Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers were all the rage, in the last 12 years its kill a cop, stab a ho and the hitman is cool. Many problems are linked directly and indirectly to hollywood and video game companies, they even produce counter studies to debunk those who say the negative effects are harming kids. They use the same techniques the tabacco industry used.

All BS, its all about the money. Rebel geeks love to rage against society with the same crap hollywood sells, kids are the target. Some kids need a little physical reinforcement to remind them they have limitations. Earn a teaching degree and get a teaching job in south central LA or the Bronx. Or find some of those teachers online and ask them if a little dicipline would help? Some kids will not repsond to words once they realize parents and teachers do not have the upper hand. We'll see how this story plays out once the parents are profiled.

I agree there's a certain poitn where words becomes useless. But that point is when the parents have failed miserably and the child is into their teens and has not had any type of moral responsibility tied into their brain.

As for the violence, I dunno, it's a tough call. I don't kill people, or commit crimes, and I quite enjoyed Hitman.

[SirMoby]

If this happened in Gaza it would be on the back page, remember , 3rd graders who live in the Gaza strip , West Bank , Syria and Palestine already know how to to fire an AK-47, we need to start teaching our kids how to defend themselves against these future terrorists and we need to start now !!
Our military advantage is in technology Frank. It's not in the use of automatic weapons. It's in the use micro chips. In order for us to maintain our advantage we need to start producing more mathematicians and scientists.

Unfortunately far more are coming from China then the USA these days. I agree that we need to teach our kids to defend themselves. Let's improve our education so they can.

[Cat slave]

Explaining to kids why what they did is wrong will only amplify their desire to push the envelope. Harry must think all those "No Fear" signs in teenage car windshields really means something. Today the reason old school parenting techniques do not work is because they use passive/submissive methods that teach the kid to be agreeable and they learn something from the event. But they also learn mom and dad ain't got the balls to take them on head to head, and the kids become new age rebels .........without a clue.

Agree! According to the UN they have the right not to be punished for anything.

[Cat slave]

Weren't these third graders? 8 and 9 years old.

Not all teenagers are the same. That would be like saying all older women are the same.

Yeah, they were but when Ted Bundy entered the conversation it raised the
bar...IMO that is.

[bigfootzx]

It all depends on the kid and whether the parent can control them with talk. I've seen some testy attitudes from kids my friends have. People are always gonna be on different sides of how to discipline kids, today it appears the attitude and ego crap is getting out of hand with some kids.

Video games are entertainment for most but we've seen many crimes based on video games or at least that was the excuse afterward. All BS lawyer crap, the game didn't make them a killer, the gun did! There are plenty of studies that suggest some people are predisposed to violence.

I never played Hitman, looked kinda weird, rented the GhostRecon......fun to play! War games and adventure stuff mostly.

[Independent Harry]

Agree! According to the UN they have the right not to be punished for anything.

LOL, No Fear has been around since I was a kid. Do you know what it means? I mean honestly, its a slogan about attackign life with no fear. I love how people are so cynical about this stuff, when these are the exact same emotions and feelings they went through as kids...

[Independent Harry]

It all depends on the kid and whether the parent can control them with talk. I've seen some testy attitudes from kids my friends have. People are always gonna be on different sides of how to discipline kids, today it appears the attitude and ego crap is getting out of hand with some kids.

Video games are entertainment for most but we've seen many crimes based on video games or at least that was the excuse afterward. All BS lawyer crap, the game didn't make them a killer, the gun did! There are plenty of studies that suggest some people are predisposed to violence.

I never played Hitman, looked kinda weird, rented the GhostRecon......fun to play! War games and adventure stuff mostly.

And I would guarantee, the reason most of these kids today have such attitudes is because of the way parents deal with them. Most parents expect kids to honor their word, but a lot of parents feel ont he flip side, they don't have to honor their word to their children. They figure they're just children and they don't deserve the same respect we expect of them. That is the #1 problem I see with parenting today. Well, kids see that, and guess what, especially the kids being born today, they are going to rebel against that.

The other problem is the school system. THe majority of kids don't learn well in the enviroment we have. Learning something just to learn something is not important to them. I have seen studies that the average IQ of children and their abilties is going up.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ZUw7LGMPlPsJ:biggfishrants.blogspot .com/2006/04/rise-in-average-iq-scores-makes-kids.html+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SkjcVT-5v5EJ:www.mindpub.com/art413.htm+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us

So we know kids are getting smarter, but why are they doing worse at school. It's simple, the methods of teaching being used today, are not effective with these types of children. That's where the disconnect is. Think about it, you see kids being able to do things with computers by the time they are 4 and 5 the parents will NEVER be able to do. So there is a definate rise in intelligence. The disconnect is with the schooling system. It's not that the teachers don't care, they are tired of trying to teach informatino to kids who don't care to learn that way. Instead of figuring otua new way to teach these kids, the solution has been to drug them up or lower the mandatory scores. Amazing to me.

[Cat slave]

LOL, No Fear has been around since I was a kid. Do you know what it means? I mean honestly, its a slogan about attackign life with no fear. I love how people are so cynical about this stuff, when these are the exact same emotions and feelings they went through as kids...

No, I didnt know what it means. I raised two teenagers and I come from a
different viewpoint than you but I dont think attacking life condones violent
behavoir....but thats just an adult talking.

[Cat slave]

And I would guarantee, the reason most of these kids today have such attitudes is because of the way parents deal with them. Most parents expect kids to honor their word, but a lot of parents feel ont he flip side, they don't have to honor their word to their children. They figure they're just children and they don't deserve the same respect we expect of them. That is the #1 problem I see with parenting today. Well, kids see that, and guess what, especially the kids being born today, they are going to rebel against that.

The other problem is the school system. THe majority of kids don't learn well in the enviroment we have. Learning something just to learn something is not important to them. I have seen studies that the average IQ of children and their abilties is going up.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ZUw7LGMPlPsJ:biggfishrants.blogspot .com/2006/04/rise-in-average-iq-scores-makes-kids.html+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SkjcVT-5v5EJ:www.mindpub.com/art413.htm+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us

So we know kids are getting smarter, but why are they doing worse at school. It's simple, the methods of teaching being used today, are not effective with these types of children. That's where the disconnect is. Think about it, you see kids being able to do things with computers by the time they are 4 and 5 the parents will NEVER be able to do. So there is a definate rise in intelligence. The disconnect is with the schooling system. It's not that the teachers don't care, they are tired of trying to teach informatino to kids who don't care to learn that way. Instead of figuring otua new way to teach these kids, the solution has been to drug them up or lower the mandatory scores. Amazing to me.

Hmm.....would that account for the brilliance of Asian youth? The way they
excell at math and science? Are you saying they are dumber? Thats why
they apply themselves at their studies?

Its political correctness, teachers with no accountability, shredded communities and break down of homelife. So American kids get dumbed down
to avoid looking at the real problems.

And I think it is long past time to bring "education" into the 21st century.
Why do we still have school buildings all over the place to maintain, transportation costs to pay, teacher unions to be subject to? I think
lessons should be online....every kid have a laptop and say quarterly
go into assigned testing centers to make sure they are learning. The
laptops could be set up to allow only educational subject material, and
if the kid is getting "it" then allow them a video game as a reward. Just
a thought. Its time someone came up with something different. May not
be me but should be someone. Everything else has changed, why are we
still "doing" education like we did in Lil House on the Prairie?

[Independent Harry]

No, I didnt know what it means. I raised two teenagers and I come from a
different viewpoint than you but I dont think attacking life condones violent
behavoir....but thats just an adult talking.

LOL again, with the same type of stupidity. No one said attacking life condones violent behavior. And no fear stickers do not create violent behavior. Households and parental influence are mostly to blame for that, as well as a childs outside situations.

No fear is simply a means of expressing, saying this is how I approach life. Again, you are generalizing, and what you are saying is that kids who have no fear stickers are more prone to violence. Just because you don't approve, doesn't mean you're right.

[Independent Harry]

Hmm.....would that account for the brilliance of Asian youth? The way they
excell at math and science? Are you saying they are dumber? Thats why
they apply themselves at their studies?

Its political correctness, teachers with no accountability, shredded communities and break down of homelife. So American kids get dumbed down
to avoid looking at the real problems.

And I think it is long past time to bring "education" into the 21st century.
Why do we still have school buildings all over the place to maintain, transportation costs to pay, teacher unions to be subject to? I think
lessons should be online....every kid have a laptop and say quarterly
go into assigned testing centers to make sure they are learning. The
laptops could be set up to allow only educational subject material, and
if the kid is getting "it" then allow them a video game as a reward. Just
a thought. Its time someone came up with something different. May not
be me but should be someone. Everything else has changed, why are we
still "doing" education like we did in Lil House on the Prairie?

You're right about education, as far as the Asian students, Asian tradition is obey your parents, or get your ass kicked. As the asian kids go through another generation or two, that will filter out. In fact, we are already seeing it. It has everything to do with the threat of death. But as more asians are born the way kids are being born now, that will stop workign as well.

[bigfootzx]

LOL, No Fear has been around since I was a kid. Do you know what it means? I mean honestly, its a slogan about attackign life with no fear. I love how people are so cynical about this stuff, when these are the exact same emotions and feelings they went through as kids...

It's also a name brand for clothing and gear. Biker stuff.
Nofear.com

[bigfootzx]

And I would guarantee, the reason most of these kids today have such attitudes is because of the way parents deal with them. Most parents expect kids to honor their word, but a lot of parents feel ont he flip side, they don't have to honor their word to their children. They figure they're just children and they don't deserve the same respect we expect of them. That is the #1 problem I see with parenting today. Well, kids see that, and guess what, especially the kids being born today, they are going to rebel against that.

The other problem is the school system. THe majority of kids don't learn well in the enviroment we have. Learning something just to learn something is not important to them. I have seen studies that the average IQ of children and their abilties is going up.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ZUw7LGMPlPsJ:biggfishrants.blogspot .com/2006/04/rise-in-average-iq-scores-makes-kids.html+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SkjcVT-5v5EJ:www.mindpub.com/art413.htm+average+IQ+of+children+today&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us

So we know kids are getting smarter, but why are they doing worse at school. It's simple, the methods of teaching being used today, are not effective with these types of children. That's where the disconnect is. Think about it, you see kids being able to do things with computers by the time they are 4 and 5 the parents will NEVER be able to do. So there is a definate rise in intelligence. The disconnect is with the schooling system. It's not that the teachers don't care, they are tired of trying to teach informatino to kids who don't care to learn that way. Instead of figuring otua new way to teach these kids, the solution has been to drug them up or lower the mandatory scores. Amazing to me.

Do you live where you went to school ? I still do and 15 people I went to school with, some older some younger are teaching. Only 6 or 7 are truly qualified and smart enough to do the job. The others were average or below average in school and they don't impress me as teachers. One is 38 years old and a he's principle at a grades 1 thru 5, he's been a teacher for 7 years and I don't consider him qualified to teach, his previous job...... a jailer at the county jail, go figure.

This is common nationwide no doubt, some are in it for money and 20 years early retirement option. We have a broken system and older teaching methods, schools are behind the times. Kids in India live in grass huts, earn a degree, go to college and come here and kick ass on the job.