Chavez Threatening War with Columbia

[Smurf-Herder]

In a nutshell, Chavez is an ally of Ecuador and supports the FARC insurgency. Columbia went into Ecuador after a guerilla leader; after a cross border raid by FARC into Ecuador. So Chavez closed their embassy in Bogota, sent 10 tank battalions to the border and put his air force on alert. And apparently Ecuador is also massing troops on their border with Columbia, a US ally.

Chavez Warns of War With Colombia
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3-gy-m2ViT4af14BjcC-rOHaWrgD8V5H5TG1

[disrupter]

They are ready to join the US in propagating expensive, wasteful & unnecessary wars.

Too bad for the people's of all their nations.
Too bad for the citizens of the US.

[Bill]

Uh oh, the price of cocaine will be going up.

That'll piss off some americans.

This is your basic side effect of the US preemption policy. If it's good enough for america, it's good enough for the rest of the world.

and we've lost much of our persuasive power with south america during republican rule.

[Smurf-Herder]

Uh oh, the price of cocaine will be going up.

That'll piss off some americans.

This is your basic side effect of the US preemption policy. If it's good enough for america, it's good enough for the rest of the world.

and we've lost much of our persuasive power with south america during republican rule.

Yeah, just blame the US.

S.O.P.
(Standard Operating Procedure)

[Smurf-Herder]

Maybe for once, just once, somebody could actually blame the people actually supporting and giving assistance to the terrorist group responsible for the violence.

Venezuela's charades
http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080207/EDITORIAL/793658298/1013

The State Department and every European government designated the FARC, a rebel army in Colombia, a foreign terrorist organization. Yet last month Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez praised the FARC as a "real army... an insurgent force with a political project." Mr. Chavez was cheered repeatedly by the Venezuelan congress when he insisted that the FARC must be "acknowledged" and called upon foreign governments to cease referring to the FARC as terrorists.

The FARC terrorist group has been fighting the democratic government of Colombia for more than 40 years. Founded as the armed wing of the Colombian Communist Party, this 16,000-strong terrorist force recruits children and funds its activities with billions of dollars from the cocaine trade. Its explicit objective is to take Colombia by force — it has kidnapped, extorted and executed thousands of innocent civilians, bombed buildings, assassinated hundreds of political leaders, and, with two other local terrorist organizations, have turned Colombia into one of the most violent and dangerous countries in the world. All in all, FARC has caused the deaths of more than 100,000 people.

Mr. Chavez has long sympathized with some of the world's most prolific human rights violators — from his proclaimed "brotherhood" with Saddam Hussein and kind words for the Taliban, to the close economic and political ties he sustains with the leaders of Iran and Cuba. Much of this is international demagoguery to promote himself as the world's leading anti-American. But the support Mr. Chavez and his government provide the FARC terrorists, support he has denied for nine years, is the clearest example of why he is a threat to human rights in the region.

The documentable ties between Venezuela and the FARC date back to August of 1999 — just months into the Chavez presidency. Leaked letters signed by Ramon Rodriguez, a Chavez aide, revealed that the government had offered fuel, money and other support to the FARC. Mr. Chavez also ordered another henchman, Ignacio Arcaya (who later became Venezuelan ambassador in Washington) to give cash gifts to the FARC. Messrs. Arcaya, Rodriguez and Chavez denied the allegations despite eyewitnesses to the conversations.

More evidence surfaced over the years tying Mr. Chavez and his government to the FARC. In one instance, the Colombian army seized hundreds of Venezuelan rifles in the hands of the FARC. Nothing came of it. On another occasion, Mr. Chavez included a FARC terrorist as a personal bodyguard on a state visit to Colombia. Despite photos and a local outcry in Colombia, the rest of the world blithely ignored the incident. Meanwhile, FARC leaders were routinely welcomed in Venezuela and treated as heads of state. Prominent FARC leader Olga Marin, for example, spoke on the floor of Venezuela's National Assembly, praising Mr. Chavez as a hero of the rebel movement.

Things got more complicated for the Venezuelan government when, on Dec. 14, 2004, Ricardo Granda, widely known as the FARC's "foreign secretary," was arrested on the Colombian border. One of the most senior, well-connected and highly skilled political strategists in the FARC's history, Granda had been living in Venezuela's capital enjoying Venezuelan citizenship and even participating in a government-sponsored networking conference attended by Mr. Chavez. The capture of Granda had consequences: the military officer in charge of Venezuela's anti-terrorism unit, Humberto Quintero, was arrested, horrifically tortured and now sits in a maximum security prison for the charge of "treason." Still, Venezuela kept denying its support of the FARC

[Bill]

Yeah, just blame the US.

S.O.P.
(Standard Operating Procedure)

I'm not blaming the US, I'm just saying that we can hardly hold other countries to a moral standard that we didn't follow.

People will be saying "The US did it, so can we" for decades to come. That's just the price we pay.

I'm saying that there isn't much we can do about it, except sell Columbia more weapons.

We need venzualan oil more than we need columbian drugs like cocaine and coffee.

Altho damn, I'll miss the coffee.

Altho if you can persuade Bush to attack Venezuala, go for it.

I'd love to see it. And arguably it's inevitable. So why not just do it.

[Bill]

Maybe for once, just once, somebody could actually blame the people actually supporting and giving assistance to the terrorist group responsible for the violence.



When we do it, that's patriotism.

when the other guy does it, that's 'axis of evil'.

We've been funding right wing paramilitaries in central and south america for decades.

[Smurf-Herder]

When we do it, that's patriotism.

when the other guy does it, that's 'axis of evil'.

We've been funding right wing paramilitaries in central and south america for decades.

How much of that have we been doing since the end of the Cold war? Particularly the last 10 years or so.

If we still are, I don't support it.

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm not blaming the US, I'm just saying that we can hardly hold other countries to a moral standard that we didn't follow.

People will be saying "The US did it, so can we" for decades to come. That's just the price we pay.

I'm saying that there isn't much we can do about it, except sell Columbia more weapons.

We need venzualan oil more than we need columbian drugs like cocaine and coffee.

Altho damn, I'll miss the coffee.

Altho if you can persuade Bush to attack Venezuala, go for it.

I'd love to see it. And arguably it's inevitable. So why not just do it.

Chavez has repeatedly talked of wanting a "unified" South America. IMO, that's what he's trying for in supporting these groups. If he goes to war and it turns into a full scale invasion, instead of border skirmishes, then it could have very well been his plan in the first place. He's been arming up with some of the newest Russian equipment.

And, IF he tries a full-scale invasion, I'd have no problem supporting Columbia with strikes on advancing Venezuelan forces, if they request military assistance from us. They are afterall a US ally.

[Smurf-Herder]

SHIT!

I just thought of something.

Fat Bastard is doing this to raise oil prices even further. To turn it into another money-maker.

Watch the price of crude this week.

[Smurf-Herder]

I always loved this picture of Chavez, btw.

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/02/04/20060814122109990006

Just something about him giving Fidel "that thing" for his birthday makes me laugh my ass off. :winkwink:

[Smurf-Herder]

Funny thing about all this.

I can't find anything about Columbia doing anything in reaction, whatsoever. And I've been Googling it off and on all day. Just a single story about them killing a FARC commander and calling the President of Ecuador to inform him of it.

A single story mentioning that a National Security spokesman for Bush calling Chavez's statements and actions "perplexing and odd", when asked for a comment. But absolutely nothing about Chavez being warned or anything.

It's like nobody cares.

[disrupter]

Columbia bombed on Ecuadorian soil.

Um, this is a problem.

There is a POTENTIAL question about harboring antagonistic elements, but to bomb on foreign soil without permission, with no impending catastrophe?
No. Absolutely No.

That is like the melodramatic scenario of a President getting what is supposedly called actionable intelligence [a complete misnomer] about terrorist elements on Pakistani soil & bombing them without at least communicating with the Pakistanis? Again No.

Unless you are under imminent threat this is bullshit.
Unless they are assembling a nuclear warhead there [which is in most cases absurd], which you are quite certain is targeting your nation this is not acceptable.

Between faulty intelligence & sovereign soil, this is almost without exception an absolute no no.

[Smurf-Herder]

Columbia bombed on Ecuadorian soil.

Um, this is a problem.

There is a POTENTIAL question about harboring antagonistic elements, but to bomb on foreign soil without permission, with no impending catastrophe?
No. Absolutely No.

That is like the melodramatic scenario of a President getting what is supposedly called actionable intelligence [a complete misnomer] about terrorist elements on Pakistani soil & bombing them without at least communicating with the Pakistanis? Again No.

Unless you are under imminent threat this is bullshit.
Unless they are assembling a nuclear warhead there [which is in most cases absurd], which you are quite certain is targeting your nation this is not acceptable.

Between faulty intelligence & sovereign soil, this is almost without exception an absolute no no.

Columbia says they bombed a camp on their side of the border, then were fired at from the Ecuadorian side. They went after the 17 people firing at them, then immediately returned; and the Columbian President called the Ecuadorian President to aplogize and explain. Ecuador refuse to accept their apology and called Chavez. Chavez then jumped on it a blew it totally out of proportion; to use for propaganda internally and possibly to try and drive oil prices up.

They insist that neither of the two bombs dropped from the single plane landed on Ecuadorian soil and only a small group of troops crossed the border for a very short period of time.

[disrupter]

Details are always sketchy in these kind of situations.

But we have had more than enough disrespecting of sovereign borders without justifiable cause.

Smurfy: 'Chavez blew it out of proportion'
Um, you think invading non-threat nation halfway round the globe based on lies & trumped up intelligence for WMDs that didn't exist is 'blowing it out of proportion'?

This from a supporter of 'Bring It On' Bush bluster?

Your twisted double standards stink to high hades.

They are mofo bitch fucking expensive to boot, in US lives, Iraqi lives, infrastructure, American respect & recent estimates of
3 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Your support for Fascism Americana is beginning to show.
You got a confederate &/or swastika flag hanging in your garage too?

Better start more of your shrill screaming about 'war on terrorism' & hope the NSA comes up with another bogus attack to fool the American public, again.

[Moby]

This is worth watching. I think it's going to be a few days before we start getting the real scoop on the cause.

Chavez and the oil boy want more conflict as not only does that boost demand but it also boosts costs from speculation. Every time that Bush, Chavez or Ahmadinejad talk about conflict the price of oil inches up.

I don't see a big conflict taking place although it would be interesting.

[Frankg]

IT IS NOW OFFICIAL-- HUGO CHAVEZ SUPPORTS TERRORISM!
It was already well known that Hugo Chavez had been supporting the Marxist FARC terrorists (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/177yckaw.asp)...
But, today's news was explosive!

Together for FARC...
http://bp2.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R8x5hD1kAZI/AAAAAAAALwg/Wm-F75HcQwA/s400/chavez+correa.JPG (http://bp2.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R8x5hD1kAZI/AAAAAAAALwg/Wm-F75HcQwA/s1600-h/chavez+correa.JPG)
Captured FARC documents revealed today that both (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/03/tensions-rise-captured-documents-link.html) Ecuadorean president Rafael Correa (right) and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez are in bed with the Marxist FARC terrorists of Colombia.

No wonder Hugo Chavez was so upset about the death of Raul Reyes this weekend after his group was ambushed by Colombian soldiers.
Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN03460146) reported:

Colombia's police commander said on Monday documents found at the camp of a top rebel commander killed in a raid showed evidence Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez had made $300 million payments to FARC guerrillas.

Gen. Oscar Naranjo earlier said computers found in the camp of FARC commander Raul Reyes had revealed documents showing ties between the rebel leader and a representative of the government of Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa.

The news of the death of Raul Reyes was jolting.
The news of the captured documents that Reyes was carrying is explosive.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R8x8Cj1kAaI/AAAAAAAALwo/QO6Edz51oOs/s320/raul+reyes.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R8x8Cj1kAaI/AAAAAAAALwo/QO6Edz51oOs/s1600-h/raul+reyes.jpg)
Police officers stand around the body of Luis Edgar Devia, known as Raul Reyes, a senior commander of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, FARC, inside the plane that transported his body from southern Colombia to Bogota, Saturday, March 1, 2008. (AP (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/03/chavez-warns-of-war-with-colombia-after.html))

Financial ties between Chavez and FARC go back to 1992.
The International Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/03/america/LA-GEN-Colombia-Chavez-FARC.php) reported:

Colombia's police chief said Monday that documents recovered from a slain rebel leader's computer reveal financial ties between Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Colombia's largest guerrilla group, including a recent message that mentions US$300 million in Venezuelan support for the rebels.

The official, Gen. Oscar Naranjo, didn't say if there was any indication in the Feb. 14 message that Venezuela actually delivered this money to the rebels.

Another document found in the laptop belonging to slain rebel leader Raul Reyes suggests financial ties between Chavez and the rebels dating back to 1992, Naranjo said. At the time, Chavez was jailed in Venezuela for leading a coup attempt, and was plotting the comeback that eventually led to his election as president in 1998.

"A note recovered from Raul Reyes speaks of how grateful Chavez was for the 100 million pesos (about US$150,000 at the time) that the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, delivered to Chavez when he was in prison," said Naranjo told a news conference.

JWF (http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-look-whos-funding-farc.html) reported more on this very bad news for Hugo.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/

[disrupter]

Frankg & George Bush support terrorism,
because they are terrorists.

[Smurf-Herder]

Frankg & George Bush support terrorism,
because they are terrorists.

How can you post such eloquent thought-provoking statements "sometimes", yet most of the time you sound like a paranoid ignorant 10 year old?

Are there two people using your account?

A personality disorder (Cybil)?

Or some really freaky drugs?

[disrupter]

I don't have to fan the flames of terrorism to validate my political positions.

You on the other hand,

are addicted.

Without that false notion your entire world view & self validation for existence is exposed as completely empty & hollow.

You are kind of like a mind disease.

[Smurf-Herder]

I don't have to fan the flames of terrorism to validate my political positions.

You on the other hand,

are addicted.

Without that false notion your entire world view & self validation for existence is exposed as completely empty & hollow.

You are kind of like a mind disease.

What false notion is that?

[disrupter]

That there is some vast capable league of terrorists out there.

You might want to look at the 911 video at the pentagon,

OOPS, no plane.

you've been duped dork wad.

But then you feel very comfortable being a patsy,
in fact it fits your addiction for reckless aggression which you have to aim at someone.

Evolution's little mindless pawn.

[Smurf-Herder]

How quick things change.

COLOMBIA: Crisis Ends With Hugs, Handshakes and Applause
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41514

CARACAS, Mar 7 (IPS) - Hugs and handshakes between the presidents of Colombia, Ecuador, Nicaragua and Venezuela put an end to a week-long political and diplomatic crisis that threatened to escalate into a regional conflict.

Ortega (remember him?) in Nicaragua was jumping in near the end.

Reminds me of an agreement between "bosses" in The Godfather.