Obama Vs McCain? Obama Vs Romney? Crazy! [Archive] - DC Junkies Political Message Board

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Bill

01-27-2008, 12:06 AM

Wouldn't it just be nuts if Obama did win the nomination?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/26/sc.primary/index.html

Story Highlights
NEW: Blowout win for Obama in South Carolina

Clinton finishes ahead of Edwards, CNN projects

47 percent decided on vote at least a month ago, exit polls indicate

Edwards: "I feel good about how things are moving right now"

I've read Edwards has enough delegates that whoever he gives his delegates to is likley to be the nominee.

It's a nutty race to contemplate. Obama vs warhawk McCain or mormon CEO Romney.

Probably Romney, because the republican leaders hate mccain, they are writing tons of hit articles.

Obama Vs Romney. Tough one to call, considering this whole electoral college bullshit.

Moby

01-27-2008, 01:40 AM

McCain is gaining some traction. Romney has flipped on so many issues that independents that lean to the right can't trust him. Only those that will blindly vote for The Party will support him. That may be enough to win on Super Tuesday.

However, McCain just got the governor of Florida to back him. I think the entire party is trying to make Florida the new battle ground state. I think they need McCain to now win the in order to make it a lock for Jeb in 2012 or 2016.

Moby

01-27-2008, 01:42 AM

Smurf-Herder

01-27-2008, 01:52 PM

Hillary still has the best set of plans but people hate her because she's a "her" and not a "him". America is ready to support a black man if they can avoid supporting a woman.

It's sad but it's true.

I still think Hillary will get the nomination and the republicans will come out in record numbers to show their hate for women leaders.

Everybody just hates Hillary - personally.

Her being a woman is not an issue; at least with me.

I never had a problem with Merkel, Thatcher, Kirkpatrick; or any other woman being in a position of power. It's Hillary herself that's the problem.

Little Red Dog

01-27-2008, 04:13 PM

Everybody just hates Hillary - personally.

Her being a woman is not an issue; at least with me.

I never had a problem with Merkel, Thatcher, Kirkpatrick; or any other woman being in a position of power. It's Hillary herself that's the problem.

I keep hearing that, again and again. But when I ask for specifics, people either:

- can't give any, or

- they enumerate disagreeable qualities that could equally apply to just about any politician you care to name. And to me, some of the things they say they dislike the most seem to be assets.

For example, she is called "cold and calculating". In the times we face, I fail to see how that is a bad thing. Is America saying they want a leader who is ruled by their emotions, who makes decisions based on "gut feelings"? (We already have one of those, remember? And look what that's done for us.)

She is accused of having "no emotions". Why? Because she doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve? Because she isn't able to access the passionate language of high rhetoric? The people who make this accusation aren't going home with her at night. They aren't the ones who see Hillary at home, behind closed doors. Some people find it easy to let their feelings show. And some don't. That doesn't make one kind of person better than others. It only makes one kind of person easier to read. I suggest that the ability to keep your personal feelings private is an asset in a world leader.

She's also accused of being mean and temperamental. By the same people who accuse her of having "no emotions". The two conditions are mutually exclusive. Once again, revealing the illogic of the arguments advanced against her personal character.

Yes, she's a nerd. Yes, she's a policy wonk. Yes, she can be awfully dull to listen to. But the fact is that people seem to care more about their personal perceptions of a woman they have never exchanged two words with in person. Instead of debating her position on the issues. ANd I think that says more - to their detriment - about the American voter - than it does about Hillary Clinton.

I'm truly not plugging Hillary here at the expense of the other candidates. But the degree to which people have made her a wishing well for the dark side - a place down which they hurl their meanest thoughts and invectives - seem to me out of all proportion to the person.

Even last night, when she lost in SC, the anti-Hillary pundits used up their on-air time talking about Hillary - instead of the winner, Obama. This is par for the course.

Time and time again, I hear people say the same thing: "I just don't like her." To which I reply, "So what?"

Personally, I don't know a single person in my six degrees of separation who has been on such close personal terms with a President that they had him over to their homes for dinner. They don't exchange Christmas cards. They don't know each other's birthdays. They don't meet for coffee, they don't have a beer, they don't spend time just hanging out. But somehow, with Hillary, it seems to be important that she meet this kind of criteria.

Come on, America, grow up. Not everyone needs to be your BFF.

Smurf-Herder

01-27-2008, 04:21 PM

Then you need to check out Hillary's career, before and after Bill became President.

Lowering it to the level of just playing the sex card is idiotic.

Little Red Dog

01-27-2008, 04:29 PM

I have. And I don't see her as a whole lot different than many other politicians.

I do see someone who has consistently been committed to some pet causes, like national healthcare. Since this is something I agree with her on, I don't have a problem with that.

I agree that lowering it to the level of playing the sex card is idiotic. However people just don't seem to be able to advance a viable argument against her based on real, tangible evidence.

Dude, I'm not saying Hillary doesn't have flaws. Everybody has flaws. But the level of hatred directed at this woman is out of all proportion to reality.

Moby

01-27-2008, 04:36 PM

Everybody just hates Hillary - personally.

Her being a woman is not an issue; at least with me.

I never had a problem with Merkel, Thatcher, Kirkpatrick; or any other woman being in a position of power. It's Hillary herself that's the problem.
None of the women mentioned above were running for the most powerful position in the world or in your country. Almost every one that dislikes Hillary eventually ends up calling her pushy, a bitch, over bearing or basically thinks that they admired in Newt Gingrich, a man.

Bill

01-27-2008, 04:43 PM

What's strange to contmplate is that this personal hatred of Clinton, generated by the right wing think tankls and media, is going to be such a huge factor if/when she gets the nomination.

Moby

01-27-2008, 05:09 PM

What's strange to contmplate is that this personal hatred of Clinton, generated by the right wing think tankls and media, is going to be such a huge factor if/when she gets the nomination.
It's the hate that will get them off the couch to vote.

2000 - Hate for people having sex
2002 - Hate and fear for dark bearded men in caves
2004 - The same as above
2006 - Hate for gays and illegal immigrants

2008 - Hate for women = Hillary

Little Red Dog

01-27-2008, 05:18 PM

Unfortunately, you might be right.

Bill

01-27-2008, 05:49 PM

It's the hate that will get them off the couch to vote.

Which is a big reason that I was supporting Edwards.

I know that the corporations control both parties, so I blame the american people for being so foolish as to end up picking a woman and a black man as teh top candidates.

Either a woman or a black man will serve nicely to get the republicans off the couch.

I wonder if they lose, will the dem leadership get tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail? One can only hope.

Smurf-Herder

01-27-2008, 06:03 PM

Little Red Dog

01-27-2008, 10:15 PM

Didn't miss a thing.

It seems impossible for you to believe that there are people out here who actually agree with much of Hillary's platform. Let me assure you: it is so.

I understand your dilemma, however. In much the same way, it was extremely difficult for me to fathom how George W. Bush could have been elected for a 1st, much less a 2nd term - especially if you had reviewed his record as governor of TX.

Cat slave

01-28-2008, 11:24 AM

Moby

01-28-2008, 11:53 AM

BTW, you better research her idea of what national healthcare involves. It's pretty totalitarian. At least the proposals during her husband's first term were.
She's revamped her plan and there's nothing totalitarian about it.

In fact, her plan is very similar to the plan that the Republicans are supporting. It's basically the same as Willard Romney's plan that he pushed for in Mass.

Take a look at what Hillary's plan, compare it to the one the republicans supported in Mass and then talk about it.

This is another shining example of how if "The Party" does it then it's good. If it didn't come "The Party" then it's bad.

Moby

01-28-2008, 11:55 AM

McCain is NO conservative. And Im crossing over next Tues and vote as a
dem for Obama. Im much less afraid of him than Hitlary or McCain.
And Bush is a conservative? Now he even calls it "Migration" instead of illegal immigration. :)

Huge spending increases
Creating a huge government
Playing nation builder
Government funded jobs

Outside of abortion, gays and science where is Bush a conservative?

kres24GT

01-28-2008, 12:54 PM

What's strange to contmplate is that this personal hatred of Clinton, generated by the right wing think tankls and media, is going to be such a huge factor if/when she gets the nomination.

It's funny that so many Bush homers hate her so much. Also funny is that so many Bush haters are going to vote for her. She is basically an exact copy of Bush. Big government, lots of spending, helping corporate buddies with tax dollars, pandering to the poor, forget about the middle class, not to mention a fan of nation building. She may raise taxes to cover her bill is the only major difference.

If you vote for Bush in 00 and 04 no reason not to vote for Hillary.

Smurf-Herder

01-28-2008, 01:10 PM

She's revamped her plan and there's nothing totalitarian about it.

In fact, her plan is very similar to the plan that the Republicans are supporting. It's basically the same as Willard Romney's plan that he pushed for in Mass.

Take a look at what Hillary's plan, compare it to the one the republicans supported in Mass and then talk about it.

This is another shining example of how if "The Party" does it then it's good. If it didn't come "The Party" then it's bad.

Looks like it may have a 4 billion dollar deficit in 5 years.

Cost of Massachusetts Health Insurance Mandate to Rise 85% -- $400 Mil -- in '09; CA Mandate Proposal Certain to Face Similar Increases
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/cost-of-massachusetts-health-insurance-mandate-to-rise-85--,263173.shtml

Smurf-Herder

01-28-2008, 01:13 PM

It's funny that so many Bush homers hate her so much. Also funny is that so many Bush haters are going to vote for her. She is basically an exact copy of Bush. Big government, lots of spending, helping corporate buddies with tax dollars, pandering to the poor, forget about the middle class, not to mention a fan of nation building. She may raise taxes to cover her bill is the only major difference.

If you vote for Bush in 00 and 04 no reason not to vote for Hillary.

You're clueless about Hillary, apparently. She's not another Bush by any means. She's a marxist at heart. Maybe people would see that if she allowed her college papers to be released.

Moby

01-28-2008, 02:16 PM

You're clueless about Hillary, apparently. She's not another Bush by any means. She's a marxist at heart. Maybe people would see that if she allowed her college papers to be released.
Actually her economy and government would be more conservative then Bush's plans.

Take a look right now.

- The government has created roughly 25% of all the jobs created since Bush took office.
- Earmarks increased 1,000% under Bush.
- Spending increased at twice the rate of Bill Clinton's term in office
- Borrowing has taken over conservative fiscal responsibility
- The President has pushed for his buddies to take political office (Brown, Wolfy ...)
- The President has pushed for a single party system

Now what has Hillary done to support your statement about her being a Marxist?

kres24GT

01-28-2008, 02:24 PM

You're clueless about Hillary, apparently. She's not another Bush by any means. She's a marxist at heart. Maybe people would see that if she allowed her college papers to be released.

Both are statist, they want the government to control every aspect of our lives. Their goal is a totalitarian government. They may differ here or there on the details, but in reality their goal is the same.

mwillman

01-28-2008, 03:12 PM

kres24GT

01-28-2008, 04:11 PM

You guys can be such drama queens.

None of the candidates wants a totalitarian government.
All this nihilistic whinning does nothing except give you an excuse to not live up to your own selfish lifes.

They don't? They sure have a funny way of showing it. Sorry but both parties are unties in creating a totalitarian state and it is coming. They may disagree on some of the detail but they definitely agree the government should control pretty much everything.

Bill

01-28-2008, 05:28 PM

If you vote for Bush in 00 and 04 no reason not to vote for Hillary.

Ain't that the freekin truth!

Smurf-Herder

01-28-2008, 06:54 PM

Actually her economy and government would be more conservative then Bush's plans.

Take a look right now.

- The government has created roughly 25% of all the jobs created since Bush took office.
- Earmarks increased 1,000% under Bush.
- Spending increased at twice the rate of Bill Clinton's term in office
- Borrowing has taken over conservative fiscal responsibility
- The President has pushed for his buddies to take political office (Brown, Wolfy ...)
- The President has pushed for a single party system

Now what has Hillary done to support your statement about her being a Marxist?

Here are some articles on Hillary:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/29731.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/hillarys_oedipal_problem.html

http://www.rense.com/general6/stanley122400.htm

http://www.usasurvival.org/ck061903.shtml

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp

http://media.www.nicsentinel.com/media/storage/paper1128/news/2007/10/15/Opinion/Hillary.The.New.Face.Of.Communism-3030935.shtml

Moby

01-29-2008, 01:49 AM

Here are some articles on Hillary:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/29731.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/hillarys_oedipal_problem.html

http://www.rense.com/general6/stanley122400.htm

http://www.usasurvival.org/ck061903.shtml

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp

http://media.www.nicsentinel.com/media/storage/paper1128/news/2007/10/15/Opinion/Hillary.The.New.Face.Of.Communism-3030935.shtml
Because you can't come up with a single point and a decent article you want me to read all those articles and suddenly see the light?

Can you support your claims or not?

Smurf-Herder

01-29-2008, 07:21 PM

Because you can't come up with a single point and a decent article you want me to read all those articles and suddenly see the light?

Can you support your claims or not?

Fuck the bitch. I don't care.

Everything about her perspective on government has been out there for years. I'm not responsible for your ignorance.

Smurf-Herder

01-29-2008, 08:02 PM

McCain is NO conservative. And Im crossing over next Tues and vote as a
dem for Obama. Im much less afraid of him than Hitlary or McCain.

I've been thinking about that for a while now. Obama hasn't been in DC for decades, getting corrupted with all the others. He may still be idealistic enough to be a good man in office. Although, it bothered me to see Kennedy so much behind him now. I'm hoping he's just sticking it to the Clintons, and Obama isn't looking up to him ......... the fucking drunken bastard.

I dread a McCain presidency.

He has the potential to be the Republican Slick Willy - although not as slick.

You're right. John McCain is no Conservative.

KrisW

01-31-2008, 03:09 PM

I've read Edwards has enough delegates that whoever he gives his delegates to is likley to be the nominee.

Then you read wrong...escpecially since only 5% of the delegates have been determined and Edwards is now out of the race.

KrisW

01-31-2008, 03:13 PM

I dread a McCain presidency.

He has the potential to be the Republican Slick Willy - although not as slick.

NO, that would be Slick MITTY (aka Mitt Romney)

The candidate who has shown he changes positions with the polls and calls misquoting a fellow candidate "a contrast ad" when HE does it, but "dirty tricks" when it is done to him.

NICKHILL80

01-31-2008, 03:44 PM

Thats why I can't understand why people can't see through the puppetry of some of these candidates. Going and back and fourth one way or another depending what media prints out, the opinion from the people or other nominees.
Though McCain is ok I like him as person or I should say I can deal with his feel good attitude, but Hes riding a high horse and hes going to keep that smile going and fists pumping for as long as people do the same. Romney reminds me of a little wax figure that you can bend twist turn in any direction you want. Hillary not so much, but the I want to get in the ring with you and battle just shows where we stand today in the political divide and problems we have in our government. Making everything a personal issue. I'm over it

Obama '08 say what you want, up and coming leader of the people. Bring us together all for one. "YES WE CAN"

Bill

01-31-2008, 07:46 PM

Then you read wrong...escpecially since only 5% of the delegates have been determined and Edwards is now out of the race.

Apparently so.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Edwards_delegates.html

Moby

02-01-2008, 01:05 AM

Obama '08 say what you want, up and coming leader of the people. Bring us together all for one. "YES WE CAN"
The most likable thing about Obama is that he seems open to listen instead of just mindlessly doing what the party tells him.

Bill

02-01-2008, 02:44 AM

What is Obama's platform anyway?

I was thinking about this earlier today, and realized I couldn't say what he actually promises to do if elected.

Little Red Dog

02-01-2008, 09:21 PM

ummm...yeah.. some of us have noticed that.

He sure do talk purty though.