The "Guns" Thread

[Americanadian]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good". I'll tell you what I'm looking at:

9mm pistol. I'm looking at a Glock 17 and/or a Gruber. Two handguns is my aspiration for some decent home defense.

I'm looking for a good rifle as well, preferably with a scope. Remington appears to be popular but I'm not a gun expert so any advice would be appreciated. 30/30 is likely a decent size for small to large animals I would hope. Something to rid the property of coyotes and wolves or the occasional large cat (Cougar) or bear.

And for those annoying pesky rodents, a .22 should suffice. :D

Thanks for any input. It is appreciated. :thumbsup:

[Scumbag]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good". I'll tell you what I'm looking at:

9mm pistol. I'm looking at a Glock 17 and/or a Gruber. Two handguns is my aspiration for some decent home defense.

I'm looking for a good rifle as well, preferably with a scope. Remington appears to be popular but I'm not a gun expert so any advice would be appreciated. 30/30 is likely a decent size for small to large animals I would hope. Something to rid the property of coyotes and wolves or the occasional large cat (Cougar) or bear.

And for those annoying pesky rodents, a .22 should suffice. :D

Thanks for any input. It is appreciated. :thumbsup:

I hope you don't live near a zoo!

If you live on acreage big enough to support large carnivores and you don't already own a gun, I would suggest you either join a gun club and learn how to handle a gun before you buy one or get the hell out of there...You are in way over your head.

[Bill]

Pretty much everybody should start with a .22 rifle. The actual model doesn't matter all that much, but I like the ruger 10/22. It's common, works well, spare magazines are easily purchased. The ammo is cheap and reliable, and modern ammo will last for many years. It's a multipurpose gun, perfectly suited to emergency food hunting and defense. Light kick, so a woman can use it comfortably, unlike any other kind of gun.

Handguns are a complicated topic. Everything depends on your household. Are their kids? Do you plan to teach your partner to use it for personal defense? Where and how are you going to keep it?

Personally, I'd suggest a .22 handgun at first. A .22 rifle and handgun is a good combination for emergencies.

Typically, I would say a handgun is the last gun you should buy, after mastering long guns.

[Im a Bad Girl]

Pretty much everybody should start with a .22 rifle. The actual model doesn't matter all that much, but I like the ruger 10/22. It's common, works well, spare magazines are easily purchased. The ammo is cheap and reliable, and modern ammo will last for many years. It's a multipurpose gun, perfectly suited to emergency food hunting and defense. Light kick, so a woman can use it comfortably, unlike any other kind of gun.

Handguns are a complicated topic. Everything depends on your household. Are their kids? Do you plan to teach your partner to use it for personal defense? Where and how are you going to keep it?

Personally, I'd suggest a .22 handgun at first. A .22 rifle and handgun is a good combination for emergencies.

Typically, I would say a handgun is the last gun you should buy, after mastering long guns.

I agree. Too many children are accidently hurt or worse killed from handguns that aren't locked up and ammo stored away.

http://www.vpc.org/ On average, 45 children and teens are shot every day in America.

An additional 13,846 children and teens were seriously injured by firearms in the United States or more than 37 every day.

If you have children please reconsider the hand guns.

[Americanadian]

I hope you don't live near a zoo!

If you live on acreage big enough to support large carnivores and you don't already own a gun, I would suggest you either join a gun club and learn how to handle a gun before you buy one or get the hell out of there...You are in way over your head.


I was in the military briefly so guns are not a foreign object by any means. A .22 was the largest gun that anyone in my family ever used so other than military service, I have never shot anything larger than a .22

I live on 500+ acres. It's time to buy a few guns.

[Americanadian]

Pretty much everybody should start with a .22 rifle. The actual model doesn't matter all that much, but I like the ruger 10/22. It's common, works well, spare magazines are easily purchased. The ammo is cheap and reliable, and modern ammo will last for many years. It's a multipurpose gun, perfectly suited to emergency food hunting and defense. Light kick, so a woman can use it comfortably, unlike any other kind of gun.

Handguns are a complicated topic. Everything depends on your household. Are their kids? Do you plan to teach your partner to use it for personal defense? Where and how are you going to keep it?

Personally, I'd suggest a .22 handgun at first. A .22 rifle and handgun is a good combination for emergencies.

Typically, I would say a handgun is the last gun you should buy, after mastering long guns.


Handguns would only be locked up and stored in a place unbeknownst to any children. I guess many people are not careful enough with their firearms.

[Bill]

One important factor for choosing a handgun is who else will be using it, and how would it characteristically be used.

If a woman is going to be using it at times, or if it is to be carried or occassionally put in a vehicle for self defense, a lighter pistol, typically a .380 or, again, a .22, might be the best choice.

I'm not personally a big fan of the .40 caliber cartridge. It shoots fine, but, I'm always aware of some possible future emergency situation, and .40 caliber ammo is going to be harder to get than 9mm.

I think .40 is a fashion statement, more than anything else.

If a gun might be used by a woman or young people for self defense, a revolver has to be considered. They are so reliable and simple to load and use that even an inexperienced and paniced person can get them to work - and that definitely is not true for automatics.

The problem with a revolver is that to store them safely, you either need a locked box (to stiore them loaded) or you need to store them unloaded, and take the extra seconds to load it chamber by chamber.

But, you have to balance that with the reliability and simplicity of use. If you hand a terrified woman a revolver, and tell her to point it and pull the trigger, it will work first time, every time.

[Americanadian]

One important factor for choosing a handgun is who else will be using it, and how would it characteristically be used.

If a woman is going to be using it at times, or if it is to be carried or occassionally put in a vehicle for self defense, a lighter pistol, typically a .380 or, again, a .22, might be the best choice.

I'm not personally a big fan of the .40 caliber cartridge. It shoots fine, but, I'm always aware of some possible future emergency situation, and .40 caliber ammo is going to be harder to get than 9mm.

I think .40 is a fashion statement, more than anything else.

If a gun might be used by a woman or young people for self defense, a revolver has to be considered. They are so reliable and simple to load and use that even an inexperienced and paniced person can get them to work - and that definitely is not true for automatics.

The problem with a revolver is that to store them safely, you either need a locked box (to stiore them loaded) or you need to store them unloaded, and take the extra seconds to load it chamber by chamber.

But, you have to balance that with the reliability and simplicity of use. If you hand a terrified woman a revolver, and tell her to point it and pull the trigger, it will work first time, every time.

Good advice Bill, thanks.

I am leaning towards a 9mm for myself. Ruger or Glock look pretty cool. Many law enforcement agencies use Glock. One can purchase some pretty nifty smaller handguns as well which a woman can store in their purse if they chose.

Using a revolver for simplicity is another good point. Easy to load etc. Have you ever used a .357 Magnum or something like it? They would be pretty heavy I would guess.

[hdmarketing]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good". I'll tell you what I'm looking at:
OK AC, rather than get into a bickering contest with you i am going to try to help you out here.

9mm pistol. I'm looking at a Glock 17 and/or a Gruber. Two handguns is my aspiration for some decent home defense.
The subject of "semi auto vs revolver" has been a topic in many arguments.
Personally, I rather prefer the good old revolver for home defense.
The semi auto requires far too much maintenance, and if you don't keep it very clean it will "stove up" (misfire on you).

A revolver on the other hand is a much more rugged gun, you can practically leave it out in the yard in the hose and it's still going to hammer out the round.

Home Defense - Revolver Every time.

38 is a good caliber, but I personally use a Taurus 357.
I load my own ammo and I use a hot 158 grain semi jacketed hollow point.
A lot of people will tell you that's overkill, but I figure if a punk is in my house and I draw a gun, I aim to kill that person, and it's only going to take me one shot to do it.
Personally I would go no lower than a 38 cal for home defense.

Smith and Wesson makes an awesome little 357 Snub Nose that great for Conceal Carry (that's what I carry).

Just remember one thing, you need to look for something that is going to fit YOU.

I'm looking for a good rifle as well, preferably with a scope. Remington appears to be popular but I'm not a gun expert so any advice would be appreciated. 30/30 is likely a decent size for small to large animals I would hope. Something to rid the property of coyotes and wolves or the occasional large cat (Cougar) or bear.
As a hunter I have several rifles.
Depending on what I am hunting will depict which rifle I pack.
Big Game like Elk, I have a 50cal. This affords me long range, but I only get one shot.

Bear, 7 mm or .300 magnum.

Deer, .308 and .30-06.

.30-30 may be perfect for your back pasture, but it might not offer the reach you need for a Montana mulie hunt. It's more for closer range rather than long range.

.22 is the perfect rifle for plucking off Coyote

Scopes come in all shapes and sizes, just remember, cheaper in not always better.

You are far better off spending some money on descent equipment, rather thatn picking up cheap junk.



for those annoying pesky rodents, a .22 should suffice. :D

Thanks for any input. It is appreciated. :thumbsup:

Rabbits are fun with a .22 as well a coyote's.

Take some time, look around, don't just jump into the first thing you see.

I also recommend you get into some kind of class.
Local CCW classes are good, and stop by a range and talk to some people there.
Don't be afraid of not knowing, people are really good about helping others become educated on the subject.

[hdmarketing]

Pretty much everybody should start with a .22 rifle. The actual model doesn't matter all that much, but I like the ruger 10/22. It's common, works well, spare magazines are easily purchased. The ammo is cheap and reliable, and modern ammo will last for many years. It's a multipurpose gun, perfectly suited to emergency food hunting and defense. Light kick, so a woman can use it comfortably, unlike any other kind of gun.

That's good advice Bill. A .22 is a great gun to tinker around the farm with too.

Handguns are a complicated topic. Everything depends on your household. Are their kids? Do you plan to teach your partner to use it for personal defense? Where and how are you going to keep it?
I grew up around Guns, and so did all my kids.

The Most important thing is Education, Education and more Education.
All of my kids, like me were shooting guns at very early ages.
It's the curious kid that gets into trouble with guns.

I taught my wife to shoot with my Taurus 357. It has a ported barrel and custom pack Meyers.

Then I got her the smaller .38 cal

Personally, I'd suggest a .22 handgun at first. A .22 rifle and handgun is a good combination for emergencies.
But will pretty much stop nothing except small critters.
Don't get me wrong, a .22 in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing can be just as deadly as any large caliber gun, but I would NEVER suggest it for home defense.
Just not enough stopping power.


Typically, I would say a handgun is the last gun you should buy, after mastering long guns.
Why do you say that?
A Hand gun is a far better gun for home defense.
Especially at night.
Plus you can move around in a dark house much better with a hand gun than any rifle.
Also much better for corners too.
It all depends on the situation.

I keep a Mossberg 500A Cruiser 12 Gauge Shot Gun by my bed.
If I can’t get out of bed and arm myself with my hand gun, then that AA Buck will stop anyone in my room, but for roaming in the home looking for someone, Hand Gun man.

[hdmarketing]

Handguns would only be locked up and stored in a place unbeknownst to any children. I guess many people are not careful enough with their firearms.

AC, this is the WRONG attitude man!

That's the worst thing you can do.

You need to educate your kids on guns, not hide it from them.

This is the big problem today.

Kids just don't know any better...

[hdmarketing]

One important factor for choosing a handgun is who else will be using it, and how would it characteristically be used.

If a woman is going to be using it at times, or if it is to be carried or occasionally put in a vehicle for self defense, a lighter pistol, typically a .380 or, again, a .22, might be the best choice.

I'm not personally a big fan of the .40 caliber cartridge. It shoots fine, but, I'm always aware of some possible future emergency situation, and .40 caliber ammo is going to be harder to get than 9mm.

I think .40 is a fashion statement, more than anything else.

If a gun might be used by a woman or young people for self defense, a revolver has to be considered. They are so reliable and simple to load and use that even an inexperienced and panicked person can get them to work - and that definitely is not true for automatics.

The problem with a revolver is that to store them safely, you either need a locked box (to stiore them loaded) or you need to store them unloaded, and take the extra seconds to load it chamber by chamber.

But, you have to balance that with the reliability and simplicity of use. If you hand a terrified woman a revolver, and tell her to point it and pull the trigger, it will work first time, every time.

Bill, the .22 is not always the best choice.

I agree that the .40 cal is for most people a status symbol.

I don't even own a .40 Cal, but I do have a shit load of other guns.

The .22 and .25 are known as "Piss Me Off Guns".

You are more than likely going to piss someone off if you shoot them with a .22, unless you know what your doing.
I saw a guy get hammered with a .22 4 times, and he still walked over and called 911.

For Defense, a .22 just isn't enough!
It's great for plucking off rabbits and coyotes, but that's about it.
I totally dis agree with hiding guns, what the hell good is an unloaded gun, or one locked up so you can’t get to it for defense?

Once again I say, EDUCATE your kids

[Bill]

Why do you say that?
A Hand gun is a far better gun for home defense.


I say that because I believe in training to handle guns.

I'm not a modern urban gun nut, I'm an old fashioned gun handler.

I don't go creeping thru a dark house with a pistol in my hand looking for a burglar to shoot. My wife knows not to do that either.

I see guns as tools, not as toys to ease the fears of frightened men.

Since I see them as tools, I follow the training for gun handling laid out by gun experts.

And that training says, start with long guns, learn safe gun handling, then move to pistols, which are more likely to be misused and cause accidental deaths and injuries.

[hdmarketing]

I say that because I believe in training to handle guns.

I'm not a modern urban gun nut; I'm an old fashioned gun handler.

I don't go creeping thru a dark house with a pistol in my hand looking for a burglar to shoot. My wife knows not to do that either.

I see guns as tools, not as toys to ease the fears of frightened men.

Since I see them as tools, I follow the training for gun handling laid out by gun experts.

And that training says, start with long guns, learn safe gun handling, then move to pistols, which are more likely to be misused and cause accidental deaths and injuries.

and like I said "Educate, Educate, Educate!
I am not a right wing gun nut, and I do know a little about home defense.
If you really want to take a good class you should go to Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute!
Here is the link.
http://www.ayoob.com/

Here is his schedule:
http://www.ayoob.com/LFIschedule.html

I have been to more than one, and have learned quite a bit.
This stuff is not for the faint at heart, it's very advanced Self Defense Training.
In fact to even get in you need at least one or more of the following:

A letter of reference from a local official, i.e., Chief of Police, Sheriff, District Attorney, Judge.

A letter from a practicing attorney stating that I have no police record or history of institutionalization mental health care.

Proof of occupation in the law enforcement field.

A concealed carry permit or federal firearms license.

Massad isn't a typical (as you say) Nut case.
In fact he has a Bachelor of Science in Business, 1970 New Hampshire College, Cum Laude.

From his web site:
International Director of Police Firearms Training, Defensive Tactics Institute, 1980-82
Special Instructor, Chapman Academy, 1981-88
Assistant Professor teaching weapons and Chemical Agents, Advanced Police Training Program of New Hampshire 1974-77
Special Instructor, NH Institute of Karate
Feature lecturer, Missouri Police Shooting State Championships and Seminar, 1983-88
International Instructor Staff, PR-24 police baton training program
National Chairman, committee on police firearms training, American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET), 1987-present
Co-instructor (with former world combat pistol champion Ray Chapman) of Advanced Officer Survival Seminars conducted nationwide through Police Marksman Association
Lecturer and coordinator, first state ASLET seminar (New Hampshire, 1988)
Guest lecture experience includes Second Chance Officer Survival Seminar 1980-85
Smith & Wesson Academy Instructors’ update
Metro-Dade Police Academy (use of deadly force, unarmed combat and arrest tactics, officer survival)
Ordnance Expo., Los Angeles 1983-84
New England SWAT Seminar
ASLET NATIONAL SEMINARS (knife/counterknife; plainclothes/off-duty encounter management; forensic aspects of gunshot/knife/bludgeon wounds)
Regional International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Seminars, New York (ammunition selection) and Switzerland (dynamics of violent encounters)
McGill Univ. School of Medicine, Royal Victoria teaching hospital (wound dynamics, knife and gunshot), 1988
International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors (aftermath management in police shootings), National Conference, 1988
Lecturer, National Tactical Invitational, Gunsite Training Center, 1995
In addition, has intensively researched the training of numerous police agencies including, but not limited to:

NYPD Firearms and Tactics Unit
NYPD Emergency Services Unit
NYPD Armed Robbery Stakeout Unit
LAPD Firearms Traning Unit
Metro-Dade Police Firearms/SWAT Training Unit
Illinois State Police Ordinance Section
NH State Police SWAT
Ohio State Peace OFficer Training Academy
Arizona Highway Patrol Firearms Training
Kentucky State Police Firearms and Special Reaction Team Training
London, England Metropolitan Poice Firearms Training and Special Services Unit

I think Bill, the man knows what he is doing.

I take offence to you calling me a gun toting nut case.
I have quite a bit of knowledge about Home Defense and have extensive training as well.

I have dedicated my life to survival, and Self Defense as well as guns and ammo.

I am telling you from experience as well as knowledge, that a hand gun is far better for self defense than any rifle or long gun.

Most burglaries are going to occur in the dark hours when lights are off and people are sleeping or on vacation.
The worst thing you can do is jump up and turn on the light switch, you are only making yourself an easy target.

It's not about sneaking around the house in the dark with a gun, it's about getting the upper hand on the perpetrator.

It's not about being scared or paranoid, it's about being prepared and knowing how to react in a bad situation.

Keeping calm and knowing how to react is the difference between being alive or making yourself an easy target.

From what I am reading Bill, it seems that you really don't know much about home defense.

By the way, if you are using a .22 Cal as a means of home defense, you are only looking to get yourself into more trouble than you would care to think about.

A .22 Cal simply does not have enough stopping power, plain and simple!

You should never use anything less than a .38 Cal because in doing so, you are only putting yourself in a bad situation.
Think about it Bill, why do you see Police enter a robbery scene with pistols and not the Mossberg 500 A Cruiser they have on the dash?
That 12 Gauge you see in a cop car is used to disburse crowds. That’s why that gun has earned the nick name of “Scatter Gun”.
That’s what it is, a scatter gun. It makes people scatter.

Think about it Bill!

[Bill]

Did you read his first post?

He didn't say, "What's the optimum gun for home defense?". he didn't say, "I have to leave my wife at home alone in a bad neighborhood, what gun should I get her?".

Both of which wouild have gotten different responses from me.

He said, "I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good".".

Then he mentions pistols, because this is america, and the TV says PISTOLS!.

But, I took his statement at it's face value. He says he's clueless - so, I started the way I was taught every person should be started, with long guns.

The first gun my dad put in my hands was a .22 rifle. The same kind of gun was put into my hands by every formal gun handling teacher I've ever had.

The first gun anyone should own, is a .22 rifle. I say that and I stand by it %100, and nothing you can say is going to change my mind.

For the same reason that I open the action of every gun I'm handed - always assume the gun is loaded until you personally check and see otherwise - I didn't assume he wanted anything other than what he said.

You're acting like an ass - exactly the type of braggart gun person I hate to be around. I'll bet you point guns around like they are unloaded, too, and point guns at things you don't intend to kill.

[Bill]

I've shot pretty much every type of gun a civilian can legally shoot, in all kinds of conditions.

If I shoot a clip of .22 hollowpoints into your center of mass, you aren't going to threatening me or anyone else.

And a woman or a young person can easily handle a .22 under conditions of stress and panic, when the kick and roar of a heavier gun will frighten them and make them drop the gun or miss.

Besides, the whole point of a gun for home defense isn't to kill, it's to frighten off, it's to keep from having to kill.

You're full of shit, talking big shit and living in a demented fantasy world. You're like this idiot, who I hope spends the rest of his life in jail.

http://www.ksat.com/news/15160457/detail.html

[hdmarketing]

Did you read his first post?

He didn't say, "What's the optimum gun for home defense?". he didn't say, "I have to leave my wife at home alone in a bad neighborhood, what gun should I get her?".

Both of which would have gotten different responses from me.

He said, "I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good".".

Then he mentions pistols, because this is America, and the TV says PISTOLS!.

But, I took his statement at it's face value. He says he's clueless - so, I started the way I was taught every person should be started, with long guns.

The first gun my dad put in my hands was a .22 rifle. The same kind of gun was put into my hands by every formal gun handling teacher I've ever had.

The first gun anyone should own, is a .22 rifle. I say that and I stand by it %100, and nothing you can say is going to change my mind.

For the same reason that I open the action of every gun I'm handed - always assume the gun is loaded until you personally check and see otherwise - I didn't assume he wanted anything other than what he said.

And this is all fine Bill, I have nothing to argue with you on this matter, but it's when you start in on how the .22 cal is the answer to every gun solution, that's when I say you are wrong.

I have nothing against suggesting a .22 for a first gun, but then I also made some suggestions "LIKE HE ASKED"!

Then he said
9mm pistol. I'm looking at a Glock 17 and/or a Gruber. Two handguns is my aspiration for some decent home defense.
I gave him MY OPINION on home defense.

Then He said
I'm looking for a good rifle as well, preferably with a scope. Remington appears to be popular but I'm not a gun expert so any advice would be appreciated. 30/30 is likely a decent size for small to large animals I would hope. Something to rid the property of coyotes and wolves or the occasional large cat (Cougar) or bear.
To which I offered MY suggestions for those situations!
Different situations call for a different caliber gun.
I offered MY suggestions based on many years of experience Bill.

Then Bill he said THIS:
Thanks for any input. It is appreciated.
To which I added MY input!

You're acting like an ass
NO YOU are acting like an ass. I only offered input on the subject which by the way is very good input.
Unlike YOU want to believe, I do know what the hell I am talking about here.

exactly the type of braggart gun person I hate to be around.
Why, because I know about guns and self defense?
So I am a braggart?
I only offered input based on knowledge from first hand experience.

I'll bet you point guns around like they are unloaded, too, and point guns at things you don't intend to kill.

NO you are wrong, Always handle a gun as if it is loaded, that's the very first basic thing anyone with half a brain should teach even the very basic people.

I am not as bad of a person as you may want to think Bill.
I do know what I am talking about.

I only put in my two cents worth.

.22 Cal is a fun gun, and I still say it just does NOT have enough stopping power.

[hdmarketing]

I've shot pretty much every type of gun a civilian can legally shoot, in all kinds of conditions.

You are a Braggart Bill!

If I shoot a clip of .22 hollowpoints into your center of mass, you aren't going to threatening me or anyone else.
You are correct, and I didn't say a .22 can't kill, in factg I did say that in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing a .22 is just as deadly ad any other gun, didn't I say that Bill?

Ummm, ohhh yes I sure did right here:
http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=36760&postcount=10
I said: Don't get me wrong, a .22 in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing can be just as deadly as any large caliber gun, but I would NEVER suggest it for home defense.

And a woman or a young person can easily handle a .22 under conditions of stress and panic, when the kick and roar of a heavier gun will frighten them and make them drop the gun or miss.
Don't speak as an authority on peoples reactions Bill.
I know plenty of women that can pack the punch of a heavy caliber gun.
My wife actually perfers my .357 over her .38

Not all women are afraid of heavy cal guns Bill.
I will lay odds tha Lady Mod can handle a gun pretty well, and I don't think she would be afraid or panic either.

Just some food for thought, not all women are fragile.


Besides, the whole point of a gun for home defense isn't to kill, it's to frighten off, it's to keep from having to kill.

WRONG!
If you are going to aim a gun at a person, ou had damn well be ready to pull that trigger Bill.
I don't know if he/she is packing a gun, and if I shoot a warning shot, then they come out with a concieled gun and pop one off at me, then I end up dead?
I don't think so.
Who ever is in my house is an imidiate threat, now if that person turns and runs, then the threat is over and he is free to go, but as long as that person is coming in my direction or facing me, then that person is a threat, and it becomes my life against his. Guess what, I will do al I can to ensure it's not going to be me.

You're full of shit, talking big shit and living in a demented fantasy world. You're like this idiot, who I hope spends the rest of his life in jail.

http://www.ksat.com/news/15160457/detail.html

No I am living in a very real world full of sick people that want to take advantage of poor helpless people like you that don't have a fucking clue.
I live in a world where punk kids 13 and 14 years old are taking guns to schools and killing people.

I live in a world where Home Invasions are becoming a thing of the norm.

The world I live in Bill is the real world where kids kill each other because another one passed by on his turf.

I live in a world that I will protect myself, and if it comes down to some bastard coming into my home to do me or my wife harm, then that person is as good as dead!

Don’t you even come off telling me I live in a fantasy world, and I don’t know what I am talking about.
Collage students freaking out and shooting up schools just look at VA Tech.
We need to arm ourselves so we can defend ourselves against these sick minded people.

[Bill]

Well, I havn't read whatever you just wrote, but I do want to apologize for saying you're full of shit.

You're looking at this differently than I am, and just repeating the standard guns and ammo mantra that self-defense gun owners always say - "Stopping power", "Shock Power", "Put him down".

I happen to think the way you are looking at it is a distortion of reality, but I get it, you want a gun to kill the crazed gay serial killer bursting into your house with a machete and a nose full of crank.

I want a gun that my wife can safely use to scare off a burglar. And a gun to put a hurt dog or deer out of it's misery, if I have to. And a gun to shoot a rabbit with if there's a collapse emergency. A multipurpose gun that is a characteristic man's tool.

Two years ago, for example, some people hit a deer on the road near my house, crushed it's pelvis, leaving it flopping around in pain and panic. A .357 or a 9mm would have been a bad choice for dealing with that problem. Loud, scary, the neighbors would have been alarmed and so would the police. I could have used a .22 pistol, but there were 5 or 6 people, two carloads, standing around - a long gun is safer and more certain in a situation like that. So I got the ruger 10/22, slipped in the mag loaded with hollow points, and killed the deer with the first shot, the second was just to be sure.

Since I don't live a lifestyle that attracts a lot of cranked up serial killers, thinking of guns as tools works for me. Maybe it's the living in the country thing again - I just don't consider an armed intruder that I need a heavy slug to stop a likely enough possibility to make a big pistol what I would buy if I could only buy one pistol.

Anyway, sorry for the gratuitius insult.

[hdmarketing]

Well, I havn't read whatever you just wrote, but I do want to apologize for saying you're full of shit.
OK and I as well apologize for saying the same to you.

You're looking at this differently than I am, and just repeating the standard guns and ammo mantra that self-defense gun owners always say - "Stopping power", "Shock Power", "Put him down".
NO I am stating the obvious based on years of personal experience and proper training.

I happen to think the way you are looking at it is a distortion of reality, but I get it, you want a gun to kill the crazed gay serial killer bursting into your house with a machete and a nose full of crank.
No I am looking a the very real world, and I am only stating that I would rather be safe than sorry.

I want a gun that my wife can safely use to scare off a burglar.
And I want a gun that is going to guarentee that I am not going to be the statistic.
Also as I stated, there are plenty of women that can handle the larger cal guns.

In fact my .357 has "a Ported Barrel" which reduces the recoil drastically.
Again In fact, it probably doesn't have much more recoil than your .22 does!

Also my M-1911 .38 Semi Auto weighs in at 38 ounces.
Now Bill compare this to some of the Higher Standard target pistols manufactured in a variety of models in .22 Short and .22 Long Rifle that are tweaked for use in competition coming in at 46 Ounces (EMPTY).

You tell me which weighs more.

Also the .38 Cal is a rather small gun, with once again not more recoil than a .22 but plenty of stopping power.

Just putting out the facts there Bill.
When you compare a .38 to a .22 you will find not much difference other than the .38 is more than likely going to save you or your wife’s life much more often than a .22 will do.


And a gun to put a hurt dog or deer out of it's misery, if I have to. And a gun to shoot a rabbit with if there's a collapse emergency. A multipurpose gun that is a characteristic man's tool.

Two years ago, for example, some people hit a deer on the road near my house, crushed it's pelvis, leaving it flopping around in pain and panic. A .357 or a 9mm would have been a bad choice for dealing with that problem. Loud, scary, the neighbors would have been alarmed and so would the police. I could have used a .22 pistol, but there were 5 or 6 people, two carloads, standing around - a long gun is safer and more certain in a situation like that. So I got the ruger 10/22, slipped in the mag loaded with hollow points, and killed the deer with the first shot, the second was just to be sure.
Granted.
You are 100% correct. That's the ideal use for a .22, not to mention I do use them when I am hunting small wildlife like coons, and rabbits, and coyotes and the like.

Bill I am not taking anything away from the use of a .22, I am simply stating that for Home Defense, it's the wrong choice.

This has nothing to do with a Macho man attitude or who has the biggest gun.
It has everything to do with recommending (as was asked) the better choice for Home Defense.
I would rather a .38 or a .357
My wife is comfortable with both and so am I.

As far as a recommendation, I don't recommend anything smaller than a .38


Since I don't live a lifestyle that attracts a lot of cranked up serial killers, thinking of guns as tools works for me.
I don't either, but as we are talking about Home Defence, I am only stating the obvious.

Maybe it's the living in the country thing again - I just don't consider an armed intruder that I need a heavy slug to stop a likely enough possibility to make a big pistol what I would buy if I could only buy one pistol.
Bill, like I said a .38 isn't much larger than a .22, but it has plenty more stopping power.
Besides, no one said anything about only being able to buy one gun.
In fact I think he said he was looking to start a collection (more than one gun).

Anyway, sorry for the gratuitius insult.
Accepted, and I am sorry as well for my part as well.

[Binky]

Hey everyone,

I am looking to start a gun collection and I am essentially clueless on the subject concerning brands and what is considered "reliable" and "good". I'll tell you what I'm looking at:

9mm pistol. I'm looking at a Glock 17 and/or a Gruber. Two handguns is my aspiration for some decent home defense.

I'm looking for a good rifle as well, preferably with a scope. Remington appears to be popular but I'm not a gun expert so any advice would be appreciated. 30/30 is likely a decent size for small to large animals I would hope. Something to rid the property of coyotes and wolves or the occasional large cat (Cougar) or bear.

And for those annoying pesky rodents, a .22 should suffice. :D

Thanks for any input. It is appreciated. :thumbsup:


Well, I would think that since a .22 is a small caliber and used a lot for "plinking" or shooting very small game, I'd suggest you get something that will pack a wallup when it's fired. Since you are wanting to use it for home invasion and protecting yourself, it makes sense that you would want something larger. If you have a 300 lb. man coming at you trying to harm you do you really want to fire at him with something as small as a 22 cal when the situation calls for something that will put a good sized hole in him? If you fire at him with a larger weapon he won't be as apt to get up and come at you again. Once he's down then you can tie him up and call the cops.

But hey, that's just my thoughts on it.

[Hog Trash]

I agree.

I THINK MY GUN JUST WENT OFF!!!

[Scumbag]

I saw a guy get hammered with a .22 4 times, and he still walked over and called 911.

Maybe you should have just shot him in the head! :D

[Hog Trash]

Well, I'd suggest you get something that will pack a wallup when it's fired.

But hey, that's just my thoughts on it.
----------LMFAO....I think I love you Binky! :flowers:

[Hog Trash]

Maybe you should have just shot him in the head! :D

LMFAO......What was that thing you told me?

Oh yea..."Sarcasm is the lowest form of witt".

You truely are a scumbag, scumbag.

But you're so very good at it. :thumbsup:

[Binky]

----------LMFAO....I think I love you Binky! :flowers:


I don't know what was so funny about that. Are you making fun of me Hoggy?

Anyway, isn't that a line in a Beatles song? I think I love you, I think I love you. LOL I'm digressing! LOL!

[Scumbag]

LMFAO......What was that thing you told me?

Oh yea..."Sarcasm is the lowest form of witt".

You truely are a scumbag, scumbag.

But you're so very good at it. :thumbsup:
Takes one to know one! ;)

[hdmarketing]

Anyway, isn't that a line in a Beatles song? I think I love you, I think I love you. LOL I'm digressing! LOL!

Noooooo!

That was David Cassidy/The Partridge Family.

"I Think I Love You". It was September of 1970 when that song began climbing the charts and it peaked at Number 1 on the Billboard charts in December.

I still say a .38 is a great gun for a starter for home defence.

I perfer my .357 with 150 Grain Semi Jacketed Hollow Points.
As Larry The Cable Guy Would Say.

GIT R DONE:D

[Binky]

Noooooo!

That was David Cassidy/The Partridge Family.

"I Think I Love You". It was September of 1970 when that song began climbing the charts and it peaked at Number 1 on the Billboard charts in December.

I still say a .38 is a great gun for a starter for home defence.

I perfer my .357 with 150 Grain Semi Jacketed Hollow Points.
As Larry The Cable Guy Would Say.

GIT R DONE:D

Ok, I stand corrected. Since you mentioned it I can now see him singing it. The weapons you chose are the ones I was thinking of rather than a small .22.

[hdmarketing]

Ok, I stand corrected. Since you mentioned it I can now see him singing it. The weapons you chose are the ones I was thinking of rather than a small .22.

The .22 is a great "plinking" gun and ideal for jack rabbits etc...

I would NEVER recomend ANYONE using a .22 for home defence, you are just looking for more trouble then it's worth.

I have attended many classes on defence, and used to teach a CCW (Carry Concealed Weapons) course.

I posted a link someplace here about one of the best defence courses I have ever attended.

Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute holds regular classes around the country.
http://www.ayoob.com/

This guy is the Bad of the Bad, and he really knows his stuff.
I highly recomend him, but take heed, it's not for the faint of heart.

I am an old sap that has been around a few years. I am a very avid gun collector, I load all my own ammo and I play on the range as much as I can..
I am also a "Survivalist" with many shooting awards given to me during my Military Careear (you know the SOF type)
I have built a nice Real Estate Business and have all but retired from it all.

I don't get on this web site much anymore because I am spending a lot of time in the field doing the things I love.
Hunting, Fishing, Camping and Shooting.
Spending a lot of time in our Motorhome staying weeks at a time in parks now.

Why am I telling you all this?

Because with the knowledge I posess about firearms, I think I know a little about guns and defence, and I am sorry, but theese bleeding heart libs that have no frigging idea what the hell they are talking about trying to give advice that is more than likely going to get someone in trouble rather than sain and sound advice.

If you read the thread, you will know exactly what I am talking aoubt.

A Minimum of a .38 Cal for Home Defence, I use a .357, but I say nothing less than .38.

Regards,

[Dale escondido]

Handguns would only be locked up and stored in a place unbeknownst to any children. I guess many people are not careful enough with their firearms.
The safest way to have weapons in a home with children is to aclimate them to them.
I was raised around them and made my six year old shot 1000 round thru an h&r revolver. He knew their purpose ,he knew their dangers and was relatively bored with it eventually.
I have never found it necessary to shoot large game. Coyotes , wild dogs and cats are a different story.
I lived on the Kansas Missouri border. Dogs and coyotes had packed toghter and were intimidating the kids. Short of that never really had to shoot anything on the farm.

[Binky]

Noooooo!

That was David Cassidy/The Partridge Family.

"I Think I Love You". It was September of 1970 when that song began climbing the charts and it peaked at Number 1 on the Billboard charts in December.

I still say a .38 is a great gun for a starter for home defence.

I perfer my .357 with 150 Grain Semi Jacketed Hollow Points.
As Larry The Cable Guy Would Say.

GIT R DONE:D


Those are larger than a .22, so my guess is they would each "put a pint sized" hole in someone if need be. AND depending on where the impact was, they could very well separate a man from his head or balls, leaving a vacancy wide open. LOL!

I walked into Walmarts just before Christmas last year, armed with my trusty list of ammo that I wanted to purchase. When I told the man behind the counter what I was looking for, he looked at me as tho' he thought I had just flown in from planet WTF. I walked out the door with various sizes to my ownership and the knowledge that I had kicked that mans ass, judging by the look on his face. I stood tall as I walked away and my daughter and I had one hell of a good laugh over it. We did the "high five", and laughed our butts off all the way to the car. Guess he was in total shock that a woman would come into a mans world, knowing exactly what she was looking for and with a list, to boot, buy up a slew of them. HA! HA! What a high!

The price of the ammo was $150. The gas to go get them was a $1 to get to town. The look on his face.......priceless! I'm still laughing! I can't stand it!

I have to get over myself! LOL! But it sure was fun!

[hdmarketing]

Those are larger than a .22, so my guess is they would each "put a pint sized" hole in someone if need be. AND depending on where the impact was, they could very well separate a man from his head or balls, leaving a vacancy wide open. LOL!

That's the whole point. If I am going to use a gun, I damn sure aint gonna give THEM the upper hand.

I walked into Walmarts just before Christmas last year, armed with my trusty list of ammo that I wanted to purchase. When I told the man behind the counter what I was looking for, he looked at me as tho' he thought I had just flown in from planet WTF.

Again, that's why I don't play with stores, I learned long ago to load my own, and have been doing it since.
I get what I want, and I know what I am getting.

I walked out the door with various sizes to my ownership and the knowledge that I had kicked that mans ass, judging by the look on his face.
I do that sometimes just for fun, most of those people don't have a clue, lmao.

I stood tall as I walked away and my daughter and I had one hell of a good laugh over it. We did the "high five", and laughed our butts off all the way to the car.


I would have loved to see that:lmao2:

Guess he was in total shock that a woman would come into a mans world, knowing exactly what she was looking for and with a list, to boot, buy up a slew of them. HA! HA! What a high!
I totally love it. :thumbsup: I know plenty of women that know what they are doing, and I am totally for every one of them. Good for you.

I have to get over myself! LOL! But it sure was fun!
You don't have to get over yourself, you have every right!

[Binky]

That's the whole point. If I am going to use a gun, I damn sure aint gonna give THEM the upper hand.



Again, that's why I don't play with stores, I learned long ago to load my own, and have been doing it since.
I get what I want, and I know what I am getting.


I do that sometimes just for fun, most of those people don't have a clue, lmao.




I would have loved to see that:lmao2:


I totally love it. :thumbsup: I know plenty of women that know what they are doing, and I am totally for every one of them. Good for you.


You don't have to get over yourself, you have every right!


Yeah, it was a riot!