I Had An Epiphany !

[Smurf-Herder]

....... that's why I haven't been posting a lot lately.

During the past couple weeks it came to me ......

We are all "lab rats" - the whole human race, from the beginning.

And the experiment is nearing a pre-set termination point.

[disrupter]

Did you get that from 'A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe'?

(or maybe 'Restaurant at the End of the Universe')

I am sure GW Bush is from the 'B' ark, full of worthless people.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

LOL, Well. Thanks for sharing that.


:winkwink:

[Independent Harry]

....... that's why I haven't been posting a lot lately.

During the past couple weeks it came to me ......

We are all "lab rats" - the whole human race, from the beginning.

And the experiment is nearing a pre-set termination point.

lol, so whose running the experiment?

[Islam Rocks!]

You been dipping into the cat nip again SH ?

[Smurf-Herder]

We're The Sims ... for a higher level

[disrupter]

We are the lab rats, but no one is running an experiment.

Pretty sure we are on our own.

[Bill]

Yeah, I totally get that.

Me too, on multiple levels.

Such is life.

Fortunately for us, we'll almost certainly be safely dead before the experiment reaches it's intermediate conclusion.

[Moby]

Actually we're nothing more then a bunch of amino acids that have formed to create genes. These genes are actually what control every aspect of life on Earth.

To think that someone created us is just being arrogant. If anyone could create life they'd do a better job of it.

[Bill]

Well, SM, we're the ones doing the experiment.

We're doing it to ourselves.

[Cat slave]

....... that's why I haven't been posting a lot lately.

During the past couple weeks it came to me ......

We are all "lab rats" - the whole human race, from the beginning.

And the experiment is nearing a pre-set termination point.

Oh great. What a note to start a new year on!:disbelief:

[disrupter]

Epiphany?

sure it wasn't a blood clot?

Anyone seen Stephanie Weir on MAD TV playing the little old lady in the rest home who keeps having little spastic strokes, & then says you didn't get me that time lord? Outrageously funny.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Epiphany?

sure it wasn't a blood clot?

Anyone seen Stephanie Weir on MAD TV playing the little old lady in the rest home who keeps having little spastic strokes, & then says you didn't get me that time lord? Outrageously funny.


No I haven't but it sounds hysterical.


Lady Mod

[Smurf-Herder]

Actually we're nothing more then a bunch of amino acids that have formed to create genes. These genes are actually what control every aspect of life on Earth.

To think that someone created us is just being arrogant. If anyone could create life they'd do a better job of it.

We are apparently the result of the experiment being interfered with; and not created from scratch.

[disrupter]

We are the products of a bumbling god? oops!

[Smurf-Herder]

Oh great. What a note to start a new year on!:disbelief:

You're the one who started me thinking ... about everything I've ever read.

I posed the hypothesis of: What if everything were true, to one extent or another? How would it all fit together, without different things cancelling others out? An all-inclusive theory.

[Smurf-Herder]

We are the products of a bumbling god? oops!

Poachers and others.

[Smurf-Herder]

We are the products of a bumbling god? oops!

Think multidimensional, not spiritual.

Technically, they're the same thing.

[disrupter]

The polyplastic theory of reality where it is constructed of a multitude of chunks of reality that have all sorts of stray off shoots that don't reconcile with one another.

Where time is probably discontinuous in actually and only continuous in our perception of it.

I have actually wondered about that. The apparent coherence of history would seem counter to it though, but if you take histories apparent coherence as only an illusion of our particular perspective it might be feasible.

Like each instant has infinite [convoluted?] transcepts extending from it.

If you have enough dimensions almost anything is possible.

[disrupter]

In a sense it might be only our minds that sort of demand 'reconciling'.
Like a kind of rationalization that reasonably well fits the small dimensional surface of a higher dimensional manifold or even discontinuous curves/manifolds.

Sort of like alternate realities bleeding into this one.

[disrupter]

maybe a better analogy is the clutter theory of reality where you just have a string of random things with no real coherence between them other than a sequential intersection with them.

like a junk pile. only we run across it linearly through time.

[Smurf-Herder]

http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000106.html

Other minds may have wondered the same things .... between 8 and 12 billion years before us, theoretically.

Think of the possibilities.

[Smurf-Herder]

The polyplastic theory of reality where it is constructed of a multitude of chunks of reality that have all sorts of stray off shoots that don't reconcile with one another.

Where time is probably discontinuous in actually and only continuous in our perception of it.

I have actually wondered about that. The apparent coherence of history would seem counter to it though, but if you take histories apparent coherence as only an illusion of our particular perspective it might be feasible.

Like each instant has infinite [convoluted?] transcepts extending from it.

If you have enough dimensions almost anything is possible.

Hey, here's something to ponder:

What are Dark Matter and Dark Energy, exactly?

And the Universe is mostly comprised of both, with the visible universe only accounting for a single-digit precentage ... with more dark matter converting to dark energy as time goes by.

We can't answer even that, yet. Nothing we have can even see it, yet we know it's there; distorting the things that we can see. The dark matter and energy are what keep the universe from collapsing.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000106.html

Other minds may have wondered the same things .... between 8 and 12 billion years before us, theoretically.

Think of the possibilities.


Well, I was wondering where my blue friend had disappeared to. How have you been?


Lady Mod

[Bill]

http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000106.html

Other minds may have wondered the same things .... between 8 and 12 billion years before us, theoretically.

Think of the possibilities.

I'm rather impressed.

I can't say I expected a mention of the fermi paradox and the 'great silence' here, of all places.

[Smurf-Herder]

Well, I was wondering where my blue friend had disappeared to. How have you been?


Lady Mod

Actually, trying to avoid the news. I can't stand to hear any more election coverage. I've just been trying to stay mellow.

Otherwise, still recovering from Christmas.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Actually, trying to avoid the news. I can't stand to hear any more election coverage. I've just been trying to stay mellow.

Otherwise, still recovering from Christmas.

LOL, STILL recovering from Christmas? I can relate a little I guess. I was up all night Christmas night, my daughter went into labor and gave birth to a little girl the next day.

It wasn't exactly in the plans. :D

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm rather impressed.

I can't say I expected a mention of the fermi paradox and the 'great silence' here, of all places.

If we're talking about this now, what would we be doing in 10 billion years, being more evolved, as well?

Mars three hours away on 'hyperdrive' starships
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=373501&in_page_id=1770

"Burkhard Heim postulated a multidimensional world in which the forces of gravity and electromagnetism are coupled together. Last year, a paper drawing on the concept won the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' Future Flight prize. It envisaged an engine that could not only defeat gravity but propel a space craft through multidimensional hyperspace at unbelievable speed."

"Heim added two new "sub-space" dimensions on to Einstein's three dimensions of space and one of time. In his six-dimensional universe, Heim claimed it should be possible to convert electromagnetic energy into gravity and back again. "

"Together they turned the theoretical framework into a proposal for an experimental test which was submitted to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.

Droscher suggests that a spacecraft fitted with the drive could be propelled into a region where the laws of physics are changed. Nature's constants may be altered, and even the speed of light could be several times faster."

I think in a few billion years, we'd pretty much understand everything in the Universe; and how it all works.

This stuff is pretty cool:

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2739585

"Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.

The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.

Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years."

(Kind of sounds like super cavitation in water ... only in space-time)

[Smurf-Herder]

LOL, STILL recovering from Christmas? I can relate a little I guess. I was up all night Christmas night, my daughter went into labor and gave birth to a little girl the next day.

It wasn't exactly in the plans. :D

Congrats!

Think of her as a special present.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Congrats!

Think of her as a special present.

Thanks, I do. Granddaughter number 3 and grandchild number 4. I'm not even 50 yet! LOL.

She's pretty cute though. And yes, I'm prejudice. LOL.



LM

[Bill]

If we're talking about this now, what would we be doing in 10 billion years, being more evolved, as well?

So, are you going to go all transhumanist on us, SH?

next thing you know, you'll be starting to talk about immortality and singularities. ;-}

It is way better to be thinking about this stuff than politics.

Way more enjoyable, anyway.

That's one of the reasons I spend so much time soaking in science news.

[Smurf-Herder]

So, are you going to go all transhumanist on us, SH?

next thing you know, you'll be starting to talk about immortality and singularities. ;-}

It is way better to be thinking about this stuff than politics.

Way more enjoyable, anyway.

That's one of the reasons I spend so much time soaking in science news.

No, I won't go that far.

I'm just saying, everything seems to point to an interaction between Man and something else, beyond our full comprehension; starting in the distant past.

[Bill]

No, I won't go that far.

I'm just saying, everything seems to point to an interaction between Man and something else, beyond our full comprehension; starting in the distant past.

No it doesn't.

What are you using as evidence?

[disrupter]

Well of course we are merely a midpoint in an extended line of genetic development that is organismically reproducible, unless of course we go extinct.

if we do something else may arise with greatly developed mentality.

I wonder about [as your linked article mentions] becoming a 'cyber' or other type species that lives in a largely synthesized realm with little interaction with exo-reality. Our minds sort of do that, although a lot of what they do is extend our distance [insulate us] from exo-reality. We still seem to retain the ability to effect that exo-reality.

I catch the point that there may be organisms, species, civilizations that are incomprehensible to us, but i might go one step further.
What if there are certain gradients, textures, contexts of the universe [polyverse] that if we were/are able to discern create weird, completely alternate, but still self-cohenent paradigms/perspectives.

If you have any familiarity with P~=NP? [algorithms of polynomial time or non-polynomial time] virtually all non-polynomial algorithms have a polynomial translation into any other non-polynomial algorithm.

Like an idea for a nut & bolt wafts across the Universe or beyond, but when it intersects a particular mind it becomes a math algorithm or the idea for an internal combustion engine, etc. Or it could translate into a poem or novella & melody or some political or economic paradigm or idea. So that a content rich wave may be translatable into many different things depending on our dimensional interface [translation of it].
If true it might imply that any [quasi] coherent artifact was re-implementable in many, many forms, of course that maybe already sort of happens as scientists consume art & visa versa. Like some strange extradimensional dialogue. Math, science, art, literature, technology all creating new more variable relationships with one another.
What might be stranger is that which is coherent from one frame of reference is incoherent from another.

I think quantum computation implies it is taking a particular projection onto our space-time of some higher dimensional structure/organization. From innumerable possible outcomes. It is able to select out precisely the one in question, ignoring all the rest.

Further it could be contextual to the Uni or Polyverse. that a page of coherent text could have some algorithm applied to it & come up with some seemingly different narrative that had no relation to the original other than they were both coherent from each viewpoint. Maybe even something like numerology, or perhaps stranger like looking at the formations of the dark splotches of graphic characters & the void space/configurations between them. Do we read the structures or the voids the structures create? Do we categorize types of structures or types of voids & read only those specified domains & there relationships with one another?
how exactly do we parse everything? could we do it differently & would we arrive somewhere else?

Like what we see as matter is from some other point of view energy & our energy might be their matter, or space is matter or time becomes substance & matter becomes time. I think it might all depend on just how dimensionally unlimited the rotation of frame of reference is. I think the 3 classic translations in geometry are slide, rotate & scale.

It might be odd if they are ever able to take gravity wave readings that the begin to pick up data indicating extra-universal organization or order. We may find there are whole realms of existence & structures thereof between Universes that are reconcilable as such to us.

I guess what we individually tend to look for is some sustainable, lasting, only slowly changing enriched environment that supports us with minimal maintenance or expense.
I think these are ideas about which i can & have been more impassioned, but it seems kind of perfunctory when i am outlining & posting them now. I am not sure if that comes through in the posting or not.
Intellectually i think they remain valid.

[Smurf-Herder]

No it doesn't.

What are you using as evidence?

Virtually all Mankind's legends, myths and religions about the origin of human civilization involve getting a jump-start, from higher beings. Stories passed down from the beginning in different cultures, although embellished by the writers at the time, seem to have the same underlying principle.

In some cases they were gods, in others they were overseers who violated a prime directive; and in others they had the ability to make people see and remember what they wanted them to. The Sumarians believed they came down when man was less self-aware and altered us; even naming the specific star they came from. And had the ability to manipulate people's minds. In books not canonized in the Bible, they were the Watchers who committed the original sin, of teaching humans things they weren't supposed to know. I believe the Adam and Eve story in Genesis is just symbolic of what really happened.

Kind of a combination of Erich Von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" and Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End".

[Smurf-Herder]

Well of course we are merely a midpoint in an extended line of genetic development that is organismically reproducible, unless of course we go extinct.

if we do something else may arise with greatly developed mentality.

I wonder about [as your linked article mentions] becoming a 'cyber' or other type species that lives in a largely synthesized realm with little interaction with exo-reality. Our minds sort of do that, although a lot of what they do is extend our distance [insulate us] from exo-reality. We still seem to retain the ability to effect that exo-reality.

I catch the point that there may be organisms, species, civilizations that are incomprehensible to us, but i might go one step further.
What if there are certain gradients, textures, contexts of the universe [polyverse] that if we were/are able to discern create weird, completely alternate, but still self-cohenent paradigms/perspectives.

If you have any familiarity with P~=NP? [algorithms of polynomial time or non-polynomial time] virtually all non-polynomial algorithms have a polynomial translation into any other non-polynomial algorithm.

Like an idea for a nut & bolt wafts across the Universe or beyond, but when it intersects a particular mind it becomes a math algorithm or the idea for an internal combustion engine, etc. Or it could translate into a poem or novella & melody or some political or economic paradigm or idea. So that a content rich wave may be translatable into many different things depending on our dimensional interface [translation of it].
If true it might imply that any [quasi] coherent artifact was re-implementable in many, many forms, of course that maybe already sort of happens as scientists consume art & visa versa. Like some strange extradimensional dialogue. Math, science, art, literature, technology all creating new more variable relationships with one another.
What might be stranger is that which is coherent from one frame of reference is incoherent from another.

I think quantum computation implies it is taking a particular projection onto our space-time of some higher dimensional structure/organization. From innumerable possible outcomes. It is able to select out precisely the one in question, ignoring all the rest.

Further it could be contextual to the Uni or Polyverse. that a page of coherent text could have some algorithm applied to it & come up with some seemingly different narrative that had no relation to the original other than they were both coherent from each viewpoint. Maybe even something like numerology, or perhaps stranger like looking at the formations of the dark splotches of graphic characters & the void space/configurations between them. Do we read the structures or the voids the structures create? Do we categorize types of structures or types of voids & read only those specified domains & there relationships with one another?
how exactly do we parse everything? could we do it differently & would we arrive somewhere else?

Like what we see as matter is from some other point of view energy & our energy might be their matter, or space is matter or time becomes substance & matter becomes time. I think it might all depend on just how dimensionally unlimited the rotation of frame of reference is. I think the 3 classic translations in geometry are slide, rotate & scale.

It might be odd if they are ever able to take gravity wave readings that the begin to pick up data indicating extra-universal organization or order. We may find there are whole realms of existence & structures thereof between Universes that are reconcilable as such to us.

I guess what we individually tend to look for is some sustainable, lasting, only slowly changing enriched environment that supports us with minimal maintenance or expense.
I think these are ideas about which i can & have been more impassioned, but it seems kind of perfunctory when i am outlining & posting them now. I am not sure if that comes through in the posting or not.
Intellectually i think they remain valid.

I think you have the concept down pretty well.

The basics of the theory I propose are:

1) We're probably not alone among the millions of galaxies out there, full of planets.

2) The Universe has existed nearly three times as long as Earth, with multiple generations of stars; so there are very likely races billions of years more advanced and evolved than us.

3) Take all our present science - physics, space exploration, anthropology, genetics, nanotechnology, etc. - and extrapolate that out a few billion years. They could have found Earth long before Man appeared; and thought it would make a great living laboratory.

4) Any interaction with early humans would have resulted in our thinking of them as gods, to one extent or another. Especially if that's what they wanted us to believe. And technically they would be gods, from our limited perspective.

[Bill]

yes, well, it would be a shame to ruin a danikenite theory.

and what is folklore for if not to base redemption stories on?

sorry, my mistake, I thought you were talking about another epiphany.

[Moby]

I think you have the concept down pretty well.

The basics of the theory I propose are:

1) We're probably not alone among the millions of galaxies out there, full of planets.

2) The Universe has existed nearly three times as long as Earth, with multiple generations of stars; so there are very likely races billions of years more advanced and evolved than us.

3) Take all our present science - physics, space exploration, anthropology, genetics, nanotechnology, etc. - and extrapolate that out a few billion years. They could have found Earth long before Man appeared; and thought it would make a great living laboratory.

4) Any interaction with early humans would have resulted in our thinking of them as gods, to one extent or another. Especially if that's what they wanted us to believe. And technically they would be gods, from our limited perspective.
I think when people don't believe in items 1-3 they're just being arrogant and ignorant. We're way too flawed to be God's chosen people and there's no way we are the smartest and most advance life in this universe.

Some how organic material got on this earth. It's very possible that it evolved here just like it had to have evolved else where. It could have been placed here by God or some other life form.

Humans were not placed here though. We evolved from animals as we have the same emotions, instincts and drives as our animal friends.

Maybe Xenu, the leader of the Galactic Federation placed us here and all of us are making fun of Tom Cruise when he's right. I can't say that I have any of the answers on this one.

Your item 4 is more believable then creationism but I think the jury is still out on rational thought :)

[radioguy]

As I have stated before, I'm not a Christian and this should prove it...

Do I believe we are the product of evolution, just as all other animal life on earth?
A: No

Do I believe we were created by "God" as it is stated in the bible?
A: No

Do I believe that the bible and Christianity (along with other forms of organized religion and their scriptures) are nothing but fabricated, man made "Shams", designed to control the masses?
A: No

Let me stop there and explain.

I do not believe we just happened to evolve out of the primordial ooze like every other animal on earth. I believe we were (for lack of a better term) brought here and are not native to this planet, just as we are not native to the bodies we now possess. Why were were brought here and by whom, is something we don't know... well at least consciously we don't. I don't believe we are just mere animals on this planet, but also spiritual beings. I believe that when we die, it isn't the end of our existence, but merely the end of this part of our existence. Who we are, where we come from, and where we are going is knowledge I believe we all possess deep down inside us, and won't be able to find until our lives here end.

When it comes to organized religion, even though my beliefs contradict what the bible, Koran, Torah, etc, say, I have highest regard and respect for those who embrace the many religions of the world, because I think they all are designed (for the most part) to help people understand that we are not just animals, and there is more to our existence than just our lives here. I believe that the bible for instance, is a set of stories (part fact and part fiction), that was put together in such a way, that would allow us comprehend that there is something else, and to prepare us for what is to take place after we die. It is my belief, that the moment we die, we have to accept and believe that there is more to our existence than the lives we lived on this planet, and let go of it. It's the only way we can continue.

Well, that's enough of that... you get the idea... There is one more important thing I would like to add to what I've already said...

The is one major difference between my beliefs and those who embrace the beliefs of an organized religion, that I need to point out. I have very specific beliefs about our origins and our destinies (which I don't care to share), just as various religions do, but my beliefs are not set in stone. I don't for a minute think that I, or anyone else for that matter has all the answers. I therefore, do not discount the existence of "God" as it is depicted in the Koran, Bible, Torah, etc... even though I don't believe there is. There very well could be a God that created us just as it is depicted in the Bible, and I am open to that possibility. You will never see me shooting down someones beliefs or arguing gods existence with anyone. I respect what others believe. I wouldn't ever try and change a persons beliefs, and even though there are some that may use their religion as a justification for committing evil, I still view religion conviction as a good thing and vital for for the survival of the human race.

The way I see it, our belief that our existence didn't begin with our birth, and doesn't end with our death, is what separates us from all other creatures on earth. Without that belief, we would be just another animal on this planet living by the laws of the jungle.

OK... Attack at will.

[Smurf-Herder]

I think when people don't believe in items 1-3 they're just being arrogant and ignorant. We're way too flawed to be God's chosen people and there's no way we are the smartest and most advance life in this universe.

Some how organic material got on this earth. It's very possible that it evolved here just like it had to have evolved else where. It could have been placed here by God or some other life form.

Humans were not placed here though. We evolved from animals as we have the same emotions, instincts and drives as our animal friends.

Maybe Xenu, the leader of the Galactic Federation placed us here and all of us are making fun of Tom Cruise when he's right. I can't say that I have any of the answers on this one.

Your item 4 is more believable then creationism but I think the jury is still out on rational thought :)

Concerning Scientology, I believe that some belief systems themselves have a designed purpose in the mix. The more I research various aspects of this, the weirder it gets.

Do a Google search on L. Ron Hubbard + Alestair Crowley + Jack Parsons + Lam. It doesn't get any stranger.

Two men participate in ritualistic majic, as students of the biggest occultist of the early 20th century; trying to summon a force that would change world history; and allegedly make contact with what looks like a little gray guy who's from another dimension. One guy goes on to found the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL). The other goes on to start a religion, where the followers' entire lives become dedicated to a years' long process of reprogramming their brains.

[Cat slave]

Wow! Ill have to go back and read the whole thread (been busy) but from
the posts on this one page I have to say Im with SH.

Also, if evolution being the sole basis of our presence on this planet why are
the animals we evolved from still here? Evolution is supposed to enable the
newer "model" to survive in a changing circumstance, right? If so the older
model would be long gone wouldnt it?

I totally believe Chariots of the Gods! Atlantis. Alien technology being the
root of the explosion of progress since Rozwell. I dont think humans have
had a landslide of knowledge all by ourselves in the last 50 years. Look
how long it took to develop electricity, machines etc. I dont buy it happening
with out outside influence.

[disrupter]

Isn't evolution a sort of natural distilling process?

Life, genetics is sort of a sponge of that process, but as the products become more refined the sponge itself must become more & more ephemeral.

In an odd sense evolution's distillations may be stretching to non-alive [or alive] technologies. Does it cease to be 'evolution' when it escapes, transcends, stretches to non-biological creations, products? Does biology have to be a part of an evolutionary distillation?

We tend to think of evolution as creating empowerment, but it probably creates the potential for empowerment. The use of power tends to push the users of it to a more base context.
But if we have the potential to be empowered are we negligent not to use it?
But to use power in an enlightened, sculpted manner we must first use information processing & most likely design before we take actions.

[Moby]

Also, if evolution being the sole basis of our presence on this planet why are the animals we evolved from still here? Evolution is supposed to enable the newer "model" to survive in a changing circumstance, right? If so the older model would be long gone wouldnt it?

That might be the case if only a single mutation occurred in a species but over the course of millions of years multiple mutations will occur. There's nothing in evolution that requires the original species to die off just because a mutated species survives.

There are times when an original species cannot survive while a mutated species can. This can easily occur because of climate change, food supply and other factors.

If it's getting colder and mutated monkeys have warmer fur then they'll survive. If some mutated monkeys have less fur then they'll either die or move to warmer climates. If they move to warmer climates then they've changed environments and will have new forces that can influence mutations.

Some original species will die off but many will continue to flourish.

[disrupter]

Essentially our ancestors were pretty much rodents,
i believe about the time of the dinosaurs?

Mice remain largely unchanged.

Crocodiles are mostly unchanged & existed during most of the dinosaur period.

Bacteria are the most robust of all the accidental creations.

We are very [hyper?] successful over a very short span of time. We could be gone in a geological instant. We, with global warming, may be the creators of our own demise. I will bet other species have been successful to extinction before too. We ARE wiping out virtually all the large fish of the ocean, & then we start moving down the food chain for smaller & smaller catch.

One almost wishes for an ecological dictatorial [dictatorial board?] to get all these things in hand, just so our species can survive reasonably.

[Bill]

Roughly the size of rodents, and filling much the same ecological niches, but not rodents, by definition.

Squirrel sized primates, insect eaters. Fascinating creatures.

About 65 million years ago.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/earlyprimates/first_primates.htm

[Smurf-Herder]

Wow! Ill have to go back and read the whole thread (been busy) but from
the posts on this one page I have to say Im with SH.

Also, if evolution being the sole basis of our presence on this planet why are
the animals we evolved from still here? Evolution is supposed to enable the
newer "model" to survive in a changing circumstance, right? If so the older
model would be long gone wouldnt it?

I totally believe Chariots of the Gods! Atlantis. Alien technology being the
root of the explosion of progress since Rozwell. I dont think humans have
had a landslide of knowledge all by ourselves in the last 50 years. Look
how long it took to develop electricity, machines etc. I dont buy it happening
with out outside influence.

The problem is, what are the cultural implications for the human race of being subtly manipulated according to an unknown agenda. Everything is not as simple as it appears to be. More UFO researchers are starting to think there's something more going on than meets the eye.

[Moby]

Bacteria are the most robust of all the accidental creations.

That's very true. The fewer cells in a life form, the more easily a mutation can bring a new long lasting life form.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Essentially our ancestors were pretty much rodents
You're only half right:

Democrats evolved from apes.
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1169/chimpuo2.jpg


Republicans mutated from...
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1439/ratcorneredjl8.jpg
RODENTS

[Smurf-Herder]

You're only half right:

Democrats evolved from apes.
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1169/chimpuo2.jpg


Republicans mutated from...
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1439/ratcorneredjl8.jpg
RODENTS

And what the hell does politics even have any business being in this thread?

[Cat slave]

I was wondering the same!

[Cat slave]

That might be the case if only a single mutation occurred in a species but over the course of millions of years multiple mutations will occur. There's nothing in evolution that requires the original species to die off just because a mutated species survives.

There are times when an original species cannot survive while a mutated species can. This can easily occur because of climate change, food supply and other factors.

If it's getting colder and mutated monkeys have warmer fur then they'll survive. If some mutated monkeys have less fur then they'll either die or move to warmer climates. If they move to warmer climates then they've changed environments and will have new forces that can influence mutations.

Some original species will die off but many will continue to flourish.

I thought evolutionary changes took place to enable species to survive but
I see that it is not that simple.

[Cat slave]

The problem is, what are the cultural implications for the human race of being subtly manipulated according to an unknown agenda. Everything is not as simple as it appears to be. More UFO researchers are starting to think there's something more going on than meets the eye.


Maybe thats why things seem to be like a train off its tracks!

[Smurf-Herder]

Maybe thats why things seem to be like a train off its tracks!

Have you ever played Civilization?

[disrupter]

You are thinking of intention.
The whole thing is passive,
very passive, brain-dead.
think 'lame' or very lame. that is why it takes billions of years to get to this point, along with incredible good luck of a reasonably agreeable environment over that vast stretch of time.

In a sense it is so thin, fragile & improbable it has its own kind of drama. compelling in a way. desperate, hopeless, yet somehow . . . something arises. Like an incredible, almost too long prelude to the first glimmers of symphony.

Mutations are accidents.
Accidents on very rare occasions are suited to be more advantageous [or less disadvantageous]. Life processes of that subgroup are better supported & they flourish in some particular ecological niche.

In a sense evolution is really the story of [changing] ecological niches. Organisms simply fill the voids the environment has or creates. Just as fluid or gas spreads/expands to fill a void. Those voids are also created by other organisms as well as the non-living environment.

It has to be a completely passive filter. We are what passed through the ever changing filter(s) of this biosphere's history.

We are so clench-minded.
[part of the reason i try to explain it, is so i can try to grasp it myself]
[the best way to learn a subject is to teach it,
now if i was only starting from an informed point of embarkation instead of mostly ignorance . . . . ]

We think of life as being so 'empowering', but that is only our lucky inheritance of billions of years. All that, for us individually may come down to 50 or 100 years.
Hell of a buildup, not much show.
So camp it up kids, play it for the back row,
a one
a two
ratsa tatsa, shooby dooby doo whap, a bobba loppa, bing, bang, boom.
& don't forget to smile! :D

We think knowledge is empowering,
what if it is only the empowerment to be destructive?
That constructiveness requires quiet, meditative observation?
We must root ourselves in the calm quiet serene stillness,
then when we act it is with a silence of mind.
listening for the last agitated molecule in our brain to settle to a state of rest & calm. Then we can listen for the power of the silence of the universe.

[Smurf-Herder]

You are thinking of intention.
The whole thing is passive,
very passive, brain-dead.
think 'lame' or very lame. that is why it takes billions of years to get to this point, along with incredible good luck of a reasonably agreeable environment over that vast stretch of time.

In a sense it is so thin, fragile & improbable it has its own kind of drama. compelling in a way. desperate, hopeless, yet somehow . . . something arises. Like an incredible, almost too long prelude to the first glimmers of symphony.

Mutations are accidents.
Accidents on very rare occasions are suited to be more advantageous [or less disadvantageous]. Life processes of that subgroup are better supported & they flourish in some particular ecological niche.

In a sense evolution is really the story of [changing] ecological niches. Organisms simply fill the voids the environment has or creates. Just as fluid or gas spreads/expands to fill a void. Those voids are also created by other organisms as well as the non-living environment.

It has to be a completely passive filter. We are what passed through the ever changing filter(s) of this biosphere's history.

We are so clench-minded.
[part of the reason i try to explain it, is so i can try to grasp it myself]
[the best way to learn a subject is to teach it,
now if i was only starting from an informed point of embarkation instead of mostly ignorance . . . . ]

We think of life as being so 'empowering', but that is only our lucky inheritance of billions of years. All that, for us individually may come down to 50 or 100 years.
Hell of a buildup, not much show.
So camp it up kids, play it for the back row,
a one
a two
ratsa tatsa, shooby dooby doo whap.
smile! :D

We think knowledge is empowering,
what if it is only the empowerment to be destructive?
That constructiveness requires quiet, meditative observation?
We must root ourselves in the calm quiet serene stillness,
then when we act it is with a silence of mind.
listening for the last agitated molecule in our brain to settle to a state of rest & calm. Then we can listen for the power of the silence of the universe.

It doesn't have to be billions of years for what I'm talking about. Mostly what's happened with our immediate prehistoric ancestors. It doesn't necessarily involve all evolution. And I don't believe it ever stopped; but only changed with our progress.

[disrupter]

You speak of external intervention?

We are predisposed to vanity [paranoia].
It helps to psychologically support us during our lives.
We subtly & often not-so-subtly edit the narratives of our lives to cast ourselves in a positive light, to keep us motivated.
Individually & collectively.

We aren't that grand,
We aren't that intelligent.
We seem to be more regularly wickedly clever, but measured, careful, thoughtful reasoning prior to action seems to elude us.

I think true progress means paring that narrative bias down close to non-existent.
If we don't do that, the overhead of our blind egos may doom us to self destruction.

[Betty Blowtorch]

And what the hell does politics even have
any business being in this thread?
What the hell is this thread
supposed to be about anyway?

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5713/shrugginggoofyeo0.jpg

You started off saying you had an epiphany that we're
all lab rats in an experiment, then you veered off into
dark matter, dark energy, hyperdrive spaceships and
evolution...

Naturally I assumed this was the Cheech and Chong
"Let's Get Stoned and Talk About Heavy Shit" thread.

What's wrong with adding some political perspective?
Do you deny the fact that Republicans are descended
from rats?
It's a cold, hard scientific fact, Bud. http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4862/avatarquentince3.jpg

[Smurf-Herder]

What the hell is this thread
supposed to be about anyway?

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5713/shrugginggoofyeo0.jpg

You started off saying you had an epiphany that we're
all lab rats in an experiment, then you veered off into
dark matter, dark energy, hyperdrive spaceships and
evolution...

Naturally I assumed this was the Cheech and Chong
"Let's Get Stoned and Talk About Heavy Shit" thread.

What's wrong with adding some political perspective?
Do you deny the fact that Republicans are descended
from rats?
It's a cold, hard scientific fact, Bud. http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4862/avatarquentince3.jpg

This is the heavy shit thread. And if I were stoned I wouldn't be here, bringing myself down arguing politics.

[disrupter]

Yeah, politics takes the ring out of my buzz, man.

Oh, wow, look at the pretty colors.

[Smurf-Herder]

You speak of external intervention?

We are predisposed to vanity [paranoia].
It helps to psychologically support us during our lives.
We subtly & often not-so-subtly edit the narratives of our lives to cast ourselves in a positive light, to keep us motivated.
Individually & collectively.

We aren't that grand,
We aren't that intelligent.
We seem to be more regularly wickedly clever, but measured, careful, thoughtful reasoning prior to action seems to elude us.

I think true progress means paring that narrative bias down close to non-existent.
If we don't do that, the overhead of our blind egos may doom us to self destruction.

That's part of my point. Our blind egos are preventing us from being open to something beyond ourselves; while at the same time trapping us in our different belief systems.

[Smurf-Herder]

Yeah, politics takes the ring out of my buzz, man.

Oh, wow, look at the pretty colors.

Pretty colors?

I don't think you're smokin' the same stuff.

[disrupter]

Our thinking so highly of what we are,
blinds us to what we might become & how we might become it.

[Smurf-Herder]

Our thinking so highly of what we are,
blinds us to what we might become & how we might become it.

Very true.

But I still think somebody's been fucking around with us for a long time, as well.

[Cat slave]

Have you ever played Civilization?

No, I havent...sounds over my head though.

[Smurf-Herder]

No, I havent...sounds over my head though.

Here kitty, kitty.

http://www.download-free-games.com/freeware_games/freeciv.htm :read:

....... you get to play God.

[disrupter]

Civilization is good,
Alpha Centauri is better.

You might try Tropico, a much more rubbery realistic control system.

I only have Civilization III, are there newer versions, are they better?

[Smurf-Herder]

Civilization is good,
Alpha Centauri is better.

You might try Tropico, a much more rubbery realistic control system.

I only have Civilization III, are there newer versions, are they better?


I had Civilization II a few years ago, but nothing since.

Civilization IV is out:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/

[disrupter]

Civ II is cute & a decent game
Civ III is beautiful to view, & decent to play up until about the middle ages, where it gets kind of flat.

Alpha Centauri is internally a better structured game.

[Smurf-Herder]

Civ II is cute & a decent game
Civ III is beautiful to view, & decent to play up until about the middle ages, where it gets kind of flat.

Alpha Centauri is internally a better structured game.

I build my own PCs. When my last one died, I cobbled together what I have now from parts lying around; and unfortunately the video won't support a lot of the newer games.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I had Civilization II a few years ago, but nothing since.

Civilization IV is out:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/

Two hours to download on a cable connection? WOW! I'll have to think about that. It looks like a fun game.


Maybe I'll have to download it tomorrow before I head for work. LOL.


Lady Mod

[Smurf-Herder]

Anyways, back to the main topic .........

......... "original evil" (as symbolized by quite a few belief systems) apparently seems to involve one group of "guardians" breaking some basic rule and exposing us to evolving a technology bound culture, instead of a more nature-based inner evolution.

[disrupter]

And this would not be evolution's way to self-cast ourselves in melodramatic vanity for optimized emotional engagement?

Evolution needs [has needed?] to keep us as emotional junkies.

Break the dependence.

don't follow your compulsions, follow your intellect.
When your intellect provides you with likely success, then you can hog wallow in your emotions to your heart's content.

[Cat slave]

Here kitty, kitty.

http://www.download-free-games.com/freeware_games/freeciv.htm :read:

....... you get to play God.

Well, I think it is over my head....Im not good at games though it looks interesting and playing god would work!!!:thumbsup: Do we get to zap
anyone? Just kidding.

[Smurf-Herder]

Well, I think it is over my head....Im not good at games though it looks interesting and playing god would work!!!:thumbsup: Do we get to zap
anyone? Just kidding.

I'm not sure if it was the original Civilization or another game, but you could do things like design environments, establish civilization parameters, cause earthquakes and watch the civilization try to recover, watch the carnage when one civilization discovers another, etc. Basically an interactive Sim game.