oods of tears as climate change 'hard man' breaks down at summit

[hdmarketing]

He is known as the "hard man" of climate-change negotiation.

But after 12 exhausting days of trying to reach a worldwide agreement on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it was suddenly all too much for Yvo de Boer.

As the 200-nation Bali conference wrangled over a minor procedural matter, the Dutch diplomat in charge of the talks burst into tears and had to be led away by colleagues.

Moments earlier, Mr de Boer had been warning delegates that failure to reach an agreement on global warming could "plunge the world into conflict".

Officials from China, which feels Western countries should do more to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, accused UN negotiators of ignoring conference protocol.

Mr de Boer, distinctively dressed in a floral shirt, stepped up to the microphone to defend his staff - only to find that the words would no longer come.

As his unfinished sentences trailed away, he broke down and walked off the platform to supportive applause.

"He wasn't just wiping his eyes, he was in floods of tears," said one observer.

"Three colleagues - one of them a woman - formed a protective group around him and escorted him out of the hall. It was all very dramatic."


So the sumit was a total flop and they got NOTHING done.

The only thing they agreed on is to meet again at a later time.
Just thing, they actually did more damage to good old Mother Earth that 20,000 cars will do in a whole year by traveling there, and they did absolutly nothing.:lmao2:

[disrupter]

He still has a soul.

This would be unfamiliar to hdmarketing.

Mr. de Boer hasn't sold it out for avarice.

Thank you Mr. de Boer, for your exhaustive effort,
you are a credit to humanity.

[mwillman]

Well at least they talked and will continue to.

thats more then Bush has done in 7 years.

[Bill]

You just have never read much science, hd. You should try reading some.

Where I was raised, we were taught it was wrong to take joy in the pain of others. Kind of a chick thing, really.

Take note, blue observers - the three main republican tactics - whineing, gloating, and scorn. No substance, all girly emotion.

[Bill]

I haven't been following that conference. I wonder what they did get done, if anything.

It's an incredibly difficult problem. It might be interesting to discuss it.

I just read a striking TIME magazine article about the role forests play in controlling greenhouse gases, and how deforestation adds as much as 20% of the human-caused co2 to the atmosphere. But deforestation and the value of forests hasn't been addressed much in the climate talks.

They say the food shortage this year - price of grain has doubled worldwide - is due to the second year of poor harvests caused by climate changes. I just saw a long BBC World news video about that.

[disrupter]

The food price rise is also being driven by ethanol.
A bloated government giveaway to big agricultural concerns.

Completely non-green. It takes all kinds of fuel, petroleum fertilizers & umpteen gallons of water to raise a fussy food crop like corn.

The technology is not here yet, using some fast growing cellulose crop.
This corn ethanol is just a government flimflam feel good,
& it is bad for people here & abroad, artificially driving up food prices.

[Cat slave]

Our co2 would have been greatly reduced just cutting off all the hot air
coming from that conference. But whatever! Let it run its course.

[Bill]

That's ridiculous catslave. And you shouldn't be ridiculous, you're better than that.

In the first place, it is of course not scientifically true.

In the second place, it's petulant and petty.

If you would simply read the science of climate change, you'd also end up realizing that you've chosen the wrong side, and that your children will blame you for choosing your immediate personal lifestyle over the future of the planet.

Just read what the scientists are saying.

[mwillman]

If we could harvest 10% of the tidal power just around california we could power the whole state and have enough left over to create hydrogen fuel cells for all the cars in the state.

There are petavolts worth of harvestable reusable enviromentally friendly energy sources on this planet and in the solar system. We should have spent some of the 3 trillion we spent on Iraq perfecting the technology needed to use those resources rather then just going to war so we can use gas for a few more years.

The sooner we start investing in a solution the sooner we will have one. Delaying it for the profit of dinosaurs(the oil companies) helps none but a few heartless families.

[hdmarketing]

He still has a soul.

This would be unfamiliar to hdmarketing.

Mr. de Boer hasn't sold it out for avarice.

Thank you Mr. de Boer, for your exhaustive effort,
you are a credit to humanity.

He is a fucking cry baby that didn't get one damn thing done.
SO he broke down like the little wussy shit he is.

[hdmarketing]

I haven't been following that conference. I wonder what they did get done, if anything.

Bill the only thing out of 12 days they got done was they agreed to meet again at a later time.

That's it.

They didn't have the confrence in NY where the UN headquarters is located becuse it had been so cold in NY.

How can you push Global warming in a city that is in the middle of one of the coldest winters in recent years.

That's why they went to the warm tropics where it's hot, just below the equator.

They also did more damage that 20,000 cars would have in a year.

global warming.
WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.

[mwillman]

Do you have any proof for your suppositions HD or are you talking out your ass?

Were you at the planning meeting for the conference?

Were you at the conference?

Do you know anyone that was at the conference?

I suspect the answer to all of these is no and as such your statements are just a pack of lies used to continue your desire to stop any good from occuring in the world. God forbid they did accomplish something right becuase you dont believe in global warming.

[hdmarketing]

Do you have any proof for your suppositions HD or are you talking out your ass?

Were you at the planning meeting for the conference?

Were you at the conference?

Do you know anyone that was at the conference?

I suspect the answer to all of these is no and as such your statements are just a pack of lies used to continue your desire to stop any good from occuring in the world. God forbid they did accomplish something right becuase you dont believe in global warming.
DID YOU LOOK AT THE LINK I POSTED?

NO!

GO READ THE LINK YOU FUCK HEAD.

THEN SHUT YOU DAMN PIE HOLE!!!


SEEMS TO ME IF YOU ARE GOING TO DEBATE, YOU SHOULD AT LEAST FOLLOW WHAT YOU ARE DEBATING.

GO READ IT DIP SHIT.

[mwillman]

Again with the Caps lock.

Do you realize how stupid that makes you look to keep responding like a 14 year old girl with a glandular problem.

By the way what link? Is it in another thread?

So since you dont believe that global warming is occuring does that mean you support totally unregulated air polution or do you just support American Industrial Air polution.

[Independent Harry]

He is a fucking cry baby that didn't get one damn thing done.
SO he broke down like the little wussy shit he is.

Yes because i'm sure you;ve never become mentally exhausted and cried before...idiot..

[paulm]

They also did more damage that 20,000 cars would have in a year.

global warming.
WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.

Hi HD... good to see some other familiar names around here.

From what I know of air transportation (you could put it in a thimble *lol*) the jet engines in use currently are cleaner burning than their predecessors, more efficient & REAL stingy with fuel. Plus, polution generated to people transported ratio is, IMO anyway, much less than that from automobiles.

The Greenland ice sheet is melting. It is loosing more ice on an annual basis than it has in past years... and it is accelerating. In general polar ice is dwindling. Glacier Park (in Wyoming I think) will soon be re-named to 'Glacier-Less Park'. Something is causing it. Sure... global warming via greenhouse gasses may just be a crock, but helping reduce carbon dioxide emissions sure can't hurt.

I don't know why old boy decided to cry at the meeting... maybe he was frustrated or overwhelmed by the lack of a willingness to take responsibility... maybe he had a nervous breakdown... I don't know. I'm not even sure anything could come from the meeting(s).

[Jesse Hemingway]

DID YOU LOOK AT THE LINK I POSTED?

NO!

GO READ THE LINK YOU FUCK HEAD.

THEN SHUT YOU DAMN PIE HOLE!!!


SEEMS TO ME IF YOU ARE GOING TO DEBATE, YOU SHOULD AT LEAST FOLLOW WHAT YOU ARE DEBATING.

GO READ IT DIP SHIT.

The esteemed science community has responded it official cancel the global warming threat.

[disrupter]

There is energy everywhere.
the trick is condensing & distilling & storing it with easy access of use.

there is probably some fabulous theory that allows us with the gossamer channels of our mind to focus, command, control, direct infinite energies from all the nether realms about us.
We are gods, who just haven't learned the 'trick' of it.

Damn! more defective gods.

[hdmarketing]

Take note, blue observers - the three main republican tactics - whineing, gloating, and scorn. No substance, all girly emotion.

Well lets see there Bill:

Who has been doing all the whining about how Bush Stole The Elections for tha lase 7 years?

and the oil.

Well that would be the Democraps!

Who has been ranting about the claims that we are all going to die if we don't stop driving SUV's. (no substance)
That would be the Democraps.

Who has been going on about Girly Men (Gays).
That would be the Democrats.

Seems to me that your pionting ths blame our way seems to be pointing right back at your party.

:lmao2:

[hdmarketing]

The Greenland ice sheet is melting. It is loosing more ice on an annual basis than it has in past years... and it is accelerating. In general polar ice is dwindling. Glacier Park (in Wyoming I think) will soon be re-named to 'Glacier-Less Park'. Something is causing it. Sure... global warming via greenhouse gasses may just be a crock, but helping reduce carbon dioxide emissions sure can't hurt.

Hi Paul,

Reserch is now showing evidence that your statement is not correct.
In fact New Reserch is actually showing that it is growing!

Reference
Johannessen, O.M., Khvorostovsky, K., Miles, M.W. and Bobylev, L.P. 2005. Recent ice-sheet growth in the interior of Greenland. Sciencexpress /

Background
For years we have been bombarded with reports of melting and thinning of ice in the coastal areas of Greenland and the catastrophic consequences that climate alarmists have said will follow in the wake of the dramatic sea level rise they predict to result from the mountains of meltwater they say will be released to the surrounding ocean, together with their even further-fetched story of imminent thermohaline circulation shutdown induced by the impending huge freshwater discharge to the region of North Atlantic Deep Water formation. Little, however, has been written about changes that may be occurring in the much larger interior region of the island's famous ice sheet and what they might imply. Now, a new study rectifies that deficiency.

What was done
Johannessen et al. derived and analyzed "a continuous satellite-altimeter height record of Greenland Ice Sheet elevations by combining European Space Agency ERS-1 and ERS-2 data, in order to determine the spatial patterns of surface elevation changes over an 11-year period, 1992-2003."

What was learned
The researchers report that "below 1500 meters, the elevation-change rate is -2.0 ± 0.9 cm/year, in qualitative agreement with reported thinning in the ice-sheet margins," but that "an increase of 6.4 ± 0.2 cm/year is found in the vast interior areas above 1500 meters." Spatially averaged over the bulk of the ice sheet, the net result is a mean increase of 5.4 ± 0.2 cm/year, "or ~60 cm over 11 years, or ~54 cm when corrected for isostatic uplift."

What it means
In a world that has been said by many to have experienced a century of warming that is claimed to have been unprecedented over the past two millennia (Mann and Jones, 2003), the Greenland Ice Sheet continues to accumulate mass, even at the apex of the historical (but likely highly-inflated) temperature increase. This finding does not bode well for those who have cried "the ice sheet is shrinking" so vociferously and for so long a time.

Reference
Mann, M.E. and Jones, P.D. 2003. Global surface temperatures over the past two millennia. Geophysical Research Letters 30: 10.1029/2003GL017814.


Source:
Co2 Science (http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V8/N44/C1.jsp)

[Cat slave]

That's ridiculous catslave. And you shouldn't be ridiculous, you're better than that.

In the first place, it is of course not scientifically true.

In the second place, it's petulant and petty.

If you would simply read the science of climate change, you'd also end up realizing that you've chosen the wrong side, and that your children will blame you for choosing your immediate personal lifestyle over the future of the planet.

Just read what the scientists are saying.

Oh good grief Bill. Arent you old enough or paying attention decades ago when the same brilliant scientists or thier parental units were beating the
drum of gloom and doom that we were for sure heading into another ice
age??? Maybe Im older than you but I remember.

And I read what a lot of OTHER scientists are saying too who bear out
my theory on the matter but I would be looking at the bigger picture
whether any scientists said anything I agreed with or not.

Remember the hole in the ozone. We were all going to die of skin cancer
and all sorts of maladies because "we" were making the hole bigger! Well,
ok, hows that hole doing now? Its supposed to be there.

And I dont dispute that ice is melting but it is a natural cyclic occurrence.
Why do you think the people who settled Greenland name it that? Why
were people able to settle it and live there and abandoned it when the
climate got too harsh?? Probably because it wasnt ice then. You brought
up Greenland as an example.

Yes, it would be as good an idea as not to have clean air and water for
us and our offspring but there is an element that is ........shall I say...
inconvenient for your side to recognize? There are those who wish to
hobble progressive, thriving nations who are so evil they are responsible
for all the poverty and hunger and pestilence on the face of the earth
and to bring down these nations will make everyone equal and everything
just fine and dandy. Why is it successful industrialized nations are to be
hobbled and emerging "markets" given free rein???? Lets see now, we
have to cut back while China and India, the largest most prolific populations
rush headlong with gates to the hell of a changing climate wide open????

Gee could it possibly be that it would further entrench all the forces that
will prosper from globalization??? Politically and financially?? The elitists
of the world/globe, the giant corporations of the globe will have all us little
worker bees under their thumbs. Of course, they are so blinded by they
political and corporate greed that they dont see that the "emerging"
worker bees wont be able to buy their wares anywhere the current prices
let alone after inflation. There will be a tipping
point where they will no longer be able to prosper from our sweat and toil.

There is a lot more going on on this issue. Political and corporate.

[paulm]

Interesting article HD... thanks.

It would appear that, at this time anyway, we can agree to disagree... but that's ok.

However, can an effort to reduce CO2 emissions, done on a global basis, fail to produce a benefit to mankind and the environment in general?
You have illustrated that the debate is alive and well for/against Global Warming. I propose we simply remove the debate and focus on emissions for their own sake. Your views?

[Cat slave]

Bill the only thing out of 12 days they got done was they agreed to meet again at a later time.

That's it.

They didn't have the confrence in NY where the UN headquarters is located becuse it had been so cold in NY.

How can you push Global warming in a city that is in the middle of one of the coldest winters in recent years.

That's why they went to the warm tropics where it's hot, just below the equator.

They also did more damage that 20,000 cars would have in a year.

global warming.
WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.

ROTFL....I hadnt thought about that but youre right.:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:
But dont you remember...if its hot, its global warming, if its cold its global
warming.:lmao2:

[Cat slave]

I haven't been following that conference. I wonder what they did get done, if anything.

It's an incredibly difficult problem. It might be interesting to discuss it.

I just read a striking TIME magazine article about the role forests play in controlling greenhouse gases, and how deforestation adds as much as 20% of the human-caused co2 to the atmosphere. But deforestation and the value of forests hasn't been addressed much in the climate talks.

They say the food shortage this year - price of grain has doubled worldwide - is due to the second year of poor harvests caused by climate changes. I just saw a long BBC World news video about that.

Those are the issues that should be addressed. Trees use co2 while they
are alive but when burned they lose their carbon. It would be good to
be working on finding other things for the locals in the rain forests to
do and stop raping the rain forests where so many medicines come from.
So preserving forests would be more than a esthetic move.

And food shortages makes me think about the head long blind surge to
make ethanol which takes as much energy to produce than it lends to
the solving of alternative fuels.

And how smart is it to have a huge food crop become a source of fuel?
Pretty dumb if you ask me. Since it is used as human food and animal food,
it will drive up the costs of the crop while ethanol is taking as much to make
as it produces. One good case of corn blight, drought, or flood and our
food and fuel is devestated. How smart is that?

[Cat slave]

If we could harvest 10% of the tidal power just around california we could power the whole state and have enough left over to create hydrogen fuel cells for all the cars in the state.

There are petavolts worth of harvestable reusable enviromentally friendly energy sources on this planet and in the solar system. We should have spent some of the 3 trillion we spent on Iraq perfecting the technology needed to use those resources rather then just going to war so we can use gas for a few more years.

The sooner we start investing in a solution the sooner we will have one. Delaying it for the profit of dinosaurs(the oil companies) helps none but a few heartless families.

GASP! Agree!:thumbsup:

[Cat slave]

Hi HD... good to see some other familiar names around here.

From what I know of air transportation (you could put it in a thimble *lol*) the jet engines in use currently are cleaner burning than their predecessors, more efficient & REAL stingy with fuel. Plus, polution generated to people transported ratio is, IMO anyway, much less than that from automobiles.

The Greenland ice sheet is melting. It is loosing more ice on an annual basis than it has in past years... and it is accelerating. In general polar ice is dwindling. Glacier Park (in Wyoming I think) will soon be re-named to 'Glacier-Less Park'. Something is causing it. Sure... global warming via greenhouse gasses may just be a crock, but helping reduce carbon dioxide emissions sure can't hurt.

I don't know why old boy decided to cry at the meeting... maybe he was frustrated or overwhelmed by the lack of a willingness to take responsibility... maybe he had a nervous breakdown... I don't know. I'm not even sure anything could come from the meeting(s).

And the ice at the Antarctic is getting thicker. Sounds like things are
going along like they have for millions and millions of years.

[Cat slave]

Again with the Caps lock.

Do you realize how stupid that makes you look to keep responding like a 14 year old girl with a glandular problem.

By the way what link? Is it in another thread?

So since you dont believe that global warming is occuring does that mean you support totally unregulated air polution or do you just support American Industrial Air polution.

What, is Jesse a 14 yr old girl????? (cap locks and constant screaming):p

[Cat slave]

Well, this is 30 minuts longer than I meant to be at this keyboard. Gotta go.
Try to struggle along without my wit, brilliance and dripping sarcasm.:lmao2:
See, you have more fun when you dont take yourself too seriously all the time.
Later, maybe.

[paulm]

And the ice at the Antarctic is getting thicker. Sounds like things are
going along like they have for millions and millions of years.

HD and I have been talking about this very thing... sort of.


You have illustrated that the debate is alive and well for/against Global Warming. I propose we simply remove the debate and focus on emissions for their own sake. Your views?

This statement can apply to you as well.

[Jesse Hemingway]

What, is Jesse a 14 yr old girl????? (cap locks and constant screaming):p

No it just so funny that you right wingers have been wrong about everything the last seven years. Just keep acting like a bunch of fucking mindless imbeciles and keep your head buried deeper into the earth. The ostrich is the new GOP symbol no WMD's down here no global warming down here.:D :D :D

[psikeyhackr]

The irony is how James Burke predicted this back in 1989 in his TV special After the Warming.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6514270139930450081

The political part is 42 minutes in.

We are headed for a stupidity crash. Too many people can't comprehend obvious physics. Of course the 3rd world is going to resent being told what to do after the 1st world created the problem and then pretended it didn't exist for years. And plenty of morons are still in denial.

Of course we didn't know about Global Dimming in 1989.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2058273530743771382

That is the trouble with messing with complicated systems you don't understand. Chain reactions you don't know about until after they start.

psik

[disrupter]

The trouble is our very existence 'messes' with complex systems, such as the Universe itself.

Our very success stands likely to be our undoing, if not now then some time in a more distant future.

We will always fall short.
That is why we can never stop working, trying to get close.
We will Never be unemployed.

[Independent Harry]

Oh good grief Bill. Arent you old enough or paying attention decades ago when the same brilliant scientists or thier parental units were beating the
drum of gloom and doom that we were for sure heading into another ice
age??? Maybe Im older than you but I remember.

And I read what a lot of OTHER scientists are saying too who bear out
my theory on the matter but I would be looking at the bigger picture
whether any scientists said anything I agreed with or not.

Remember the hole in the ozone. We were all going to die of skin cancer
and all sorts of maladies because "we" were making the hole bigger! Well,
ok, hows that hole doing now? Its supposed to be there.

And I dont dispute that ice is melting but it is a natural cyclic occurrence.
Why do you think the people who settled Greenland name it that? Why
were people able to settle it and live there and abandoned it when the
climate got too harsh?? Probably because it wasnt ice then. You brought
up Greenland as an example.

Yes, it would be as good an idea as not to have clean air and water for
us and our offspring but there is an element that is ........shall I say...
inconvenient for your side to recognize? There are those who wish to
hobble progressive, thriving nations who are so evil they are responsible
for all the poverty and hunger and pestilence on the face of the earth
and to bring down these nations will make everyone equal and everything
just fine and dandy. Why is it successful industrialized nations are to be
hobbled and emerging "markets" given free rein???? Lets see now, we
have to cut back while China and India, the largest most prolific populations
rush headlong with gates to the hell of a changing climate wide open????

Gee could it possibly be that it would further entrench all the forces that
will prosper from globalization??? Politically and financially?? The elitists
of the world/globe, the giant corporations of the globe will have all us little
worker bees under their thumbs. Of course, they are so blinded by they
political and corporate greed that they dont see that the "emerging"
worker bees wont be able to buy their wares anywhere the current prices
let alone after inflation. There will be a tipping
point where they will no longer be able to prosper from our sweat and toil.

There is a lot more going on on this issue. Political and corporate.

Yeah that hole in the Ozone Catslave, they put policies into place that elminated ozone depleting chemicals in the products we use...which is why you haven't died of skin cancer yet...know wtf you are talking about before you speak, it makes you look unintelligent.

[disrupter]

Even scientists should be given some scrutiny.

Nobody is minding the store but ourselves.

If we could just stop all these Neo-shoplifters . . .

[hdmarketing]

Interesting article HD... thanks.

It would appear that, at this time anyway, we can agree to disagree... but that's ok.

However, can an effort to reduce CO2 emissions, done on a global basis, fail to produce a benefit to mankind and the environment in general?
You have illustrated that the debate is alive and well for/against Global Warming. I propose we simply remove the debate and focus on emissions for their own sake. Your views?

Paul,

I am NOT against working to conserve the Earth.
I am also NOT against alternitive energy.

I AM against Al Gore's bull shit line of Global Warming that's going to kill us all if we don't stop driving SUV's.

I'ts a crock of shit that is only being used for political gain.

You know, kind of like the crock of shit that comes out of disruptors mouth everytime he opens it.

[paulm]

Paul,

I am NOT against working to conserve the Earth.
I am also NOT against alternitive energy.

I AM against Al Gore's bull shit line of Global Warming that's going to kill us all if we don't stop driving SUV's.

I'ts a crock of shit that is only being used for political gain.

You know, kind of like the crock of shit that comes out of disruptors mouth everytime he opens it.

I gladly stand corrected... we have no disagreement. I'm not an alarmist nor did I think you thought of me as one. I may have come across in that manner though... Oops.
Al Gore strikes me as an opportunist. He took a hot topic (no pun intended) and ran with it to the tune of a Nobel prize, an Oscar and untold $$
We both seem to have a middle ground approach...

[Little Red Dog]

Al Gore strikes me as an opportunist. He took a hot topic (no pun intended) and ran with it to the tune of a Nobel prize, an Oscar and untold $$...

Correction, paulm. He was on this long before it was hot. Back when nobody was listening.

Al Gore was beating this drum back in the late '70s. He co-sponsored hearings on toxic emissions in 1978. He wrote an editorial to (I believe) the Washington Post in (I think) 1980 about climate change.

He pushed hard for the Kyoto Protocol in the '90s. In 1994, he was instrumental in launching the GLOBE (http://www.globe.gov/r/homepage) Program.

He's not a Johnny-Come-Lately to the environmental movement.

[mwillman]

Very true Little Red Dog.

Al gore made his name in the 70s by his support of the environment.

He would rather do what he can to help us protect the environment then become president.

[Cat slave]

Yeah that hole in the Ozone Catslave, they put policies into place that elminated ozone depleting chemicals in the products we use...which is why you haven't died of skin cancer yet...know wtf you are talking about before you speak, it makes you look unintelligent.

The "hole" expands and contracts...naturally. So, are you saying that the USA
stopped using freon in ACs, aerosol sprays and the ozone closed up? What
about the rest of the world? Did they do the same things or did we do it
all on our own?

[Cat slave]

As I recall it was fashionable in the 70s to be concerned with the environment,
the rain forests, endangered species and Gore sure didnt invent the concept.
While these things should be addressed and we should be responsible stewards
of the earth, it is being morphed into a political firestorm for power and financial
gain.

The 70s were the days post hippie movement when the more highly enlightened
and earth loving flower children of the 60s became adults more or less. Gore wasnt cool then and has never been on the fore front of anything until now.
He will soon fade from the limelight of the peace prize and fall back to the
mediocre world of has beens and continue having his personal car flown
about with him stomping all over the place with his carbon footprints that
rival any BigFoot while trying to eliminate everyone elses cars and living
standards.

We know him here in TN and thats why he couldnt carry his own state.
We knew about his honesty... or lack of it I should say. And what we
got in his place has left a lot to be desired so lets not even go there.