Gates: 'US will succeed where NAZIs, Stalinists & Hitler failed.'?

[disrupter]

Did Sec of Defense Gates REALLY say this:
[Gates] said, "[some countries] may believe our resolve has been corroded by the challenges we face at home and abroad. This would be a grave misconception."

Nazi Germany, imperial Japan, Fascist Italy and the former Soviet Union all made that miscalculation, Gates said. "All paid the price. All are on the ash heap of history."http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071208/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gates_iran;_ylt=Ah21BHmtQqv3y_QTuGC1rd2s0NUE

So i guess the conclusion he implies is the US will succeed where, Other Fascist Police states failed, because we have superior resolve?

Wow, that is ominous.

His proposition is that we, the US, are/is [will be] the successful police state where others made the miscalculation of inferior resolve.

[mwillman]

I really dont think that is what he meant.

He was naming past enemies of the US that questioned our resolve to show what happens to them.

Of course I dont agree with much of his own support for the present regime but he is not stupid enough to accually admit he supports war criminals.

[disrupter]

Perhaps, but that is what he said.

Comparing ourselves to fascist states, we will not make that same miscalculation of diminishment of resolve.

[Islam Rocks!]

Simple.

He was just saying that fascist states have challenged the United States in the past and have lost big time.

[disrupter]

He is comparing the US to fascist states & telling why we won't make their miscalculations with insufficient resolve. We don't want to end up on the Ash heap of history too.

I didn't say it, i am just telling you what he said.

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure you can Spin it that way.

But do you really thing he was comming out in public and comparing America to Nazi Germany and other fascist states.

Get a grip!

[disrupter]

No of course not.
At least i am pretty sure he wouldn't be THAT brazen, would he?
But those are the words, in a proper interpretation.

Is the Universe telling us something via a Freudian slip?

[paulm]

You can spin it any way you like disrupter... you posted the article and I read it. Given the context of the article you posted and cited the quote from he is listing past U.S. 'enemies' and what happened to them as a result of underestimating our resolve as a nation. To interpret it as you have is ridiculous.

You're reaching.

[moonman]

Me thinks disrputer infers what Mr. Gates did not imply.

[paulm]

Me thinks disrputer infers what Mr. Gates did not imply.

You mean he's reading stuff into it that isn't there?? :disbelief: ??

[moonman]

You mean he's reading stuff into it that isn't there?? :disbelief: ??

Yup, but don't take my word fer it.

Main Entry: in·fer
Pronunciation: \in-ˈfər\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): in·ferred; in·fer·ring
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French inferer, from Latin inferre, literally, to carry or bring into, from in- + ferre to carry — more at bear
Date: 1528
transitive verb
1: to derive as a conclusion from facts or premises <we see smoke and infer fire — L. A. White> — compare imply

imply

Main Entry: im·ply
Pronunciation: \im-ˈplī\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): im·plied; im·ply·ing
Etymology: Middle English emplien, from Anglo-French emplier to entangle — more at employ
Date: 14th century
1obsolete : enfold, entwine
2: to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement <rights imply obligations>
3: to contain potentially
4: to express indirectly <his silence implied consent>
synonyms see suggest

Oh shit, I copied and pasted from Meriam-Webster and forgot the link. Damn I could get two minutes in the sinbin for that. Here ya go;

http://www.m-w.com/

[disrupter]

Where is the great ominous Fascist state Gates is making an inference to?

When i read it the first time, the only ominous aggressive state that comes to mind is the United States. Currently the direction of the United States is IN THE FASCIST DIRECTION.

Deny that?

The only nation invading other nations currently is the UNITED STATES.

If he is alluding to something he best do it much more scrupulously than this.

The finger he points just comes right back to himself & his nation's actions.

Where is the big fucking threat on the planet?

IT IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

[paulm]

Ahh, but this thread is not about that now is it. It is about a mis-interpreted quote. You made the statement and you linked to the initial article and you took the quote out of context. You would have done better to not have posted the link to the article... it proved to be your undoing. This is not about one nation's aggression or not. It is about your posting a quote and misrepresenting it's meaning.
If you want to post threads alleging U.S. aggression, by all means, knock yourself out. However, the least you can do is look at other threads on the topic and follow their lead by selecting something a little more substantial. :lmao2:

[disrupter]

But he is making some kind of trumped up rhetoric about some mysterious aggressive fascist state out there.

WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?

This can only come round to bite this bonehead on his own US backside.

ENOUGH WITH THE GARBAGE RHETORIC, OK?

Let's talk in real, rational & coherent terms.
Not in some unbased inflammatory hyperbole.

Who is the one who is really reaching, me or Gates?

Gates.

[Islam Rocks!]

It is You in this instance that is reaching disrupter.

[disrupter]

Please tell me the big threatening Fascist state to which Gates is referring?

waiting on that answer . . .

[Islam Rocks!]

Please tell me the big threatening Fascist state to which Gates is referring?

waiting on that answer . . .Don't you get it?

Your chasing the wrong rabbit!!!

Give it up...................

[disrupter]

Baseless inflammatory rhetoric is not the 'wrong' rabbit.

It is at the heart of the distractive nature of our culture(s).

REPEATING, where is the big threatening Fascist state, anywhere but in the minds of fools that is.

Starve foolishness, & intelligence may have a chance.

[paulm]

Please tell me the big threatening Fascist state to which Gates is referring?

waiting on that answer . . .

Let's see... who could he have been talking about...


...Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday in Belgium that the U.S. would not relent in pushing for new penalties against Iran, a position endorsed by NATO and other European allies. Russia ignored such talk.

Or...


"Everywhere you turn, it is the policy of Iran to foment instability and chaos, no matter the strategic value or cost in the blood of innocents — Christians, Jews and Muslims alike," Gates said in his address at the event organized by the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.

"There can be little doubt that their destabilizing foreign policies are a threat to the interests of the United States, to the interests of every country in the Middle East, and to the interests of all countries within the range of the ballistic missiles Iran is developing," he said.


Or...


Speaking to a divided group of national leaders and security officials, Gates said Gulf countries must pressure Iran to come clean about its nuclear activities. He said Iran delivers arms to terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, continues to develop long-range missiles that could carry weapons of mass destruction, and supports Hezbollah, Hamas and other militant organizations.


Or...


In his speech, Gates appealed to Persian Gulf nations to support penalties designed to force Iran to suspend its uranium enrichment. Those nations, he said, also should demand that Iran "openly affirm that it does not intend to develop nuclear weapons in the future."

All cited from the article you linked to located at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071208/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gates_iran;_ylt=Ah21BHmtQqv3y_QTuGC1rd2s0NUE

sarcasm=ON
Yep... looks pretty clear Gates was talking about the U.S....
sarcasm=OFF

Now, I'm not making any statement on the accuracy or lack thereof of any other information contained in my quotes. The only thing I have been saying and that you have continiously missed is that Gates was not talking about the U.S. as a fascist state... You were. You simply made a poor choice of supporting documentation.

Let it go... Start over with another thread.

[disrupter]

What is the [paranoid?] Gates so fucking afraid of?

is there some secret alien NAZI cult that i am unaware of?

Area 51 or something?

Get fucking real.

[disrupter]

Hey Gates,
act like a fucking adult
& talk like one.

not like some scared, penis challenged school boy.

[moonman]

disrupter, if you want put forward that America flirts with fascism during this 2nd Gilded Age, I agree. What yer posting here is that, IYO Gates admits it. I respectfully disagree.

[disrupter]

No, i misinterpreted it initially. I think for perfectly rational reasons.

It is bizarre, inflammatory rhetoric, that while he wanted to aim it at Iran is on the bald face of it absurd.

He is trying to fabricate a dark, evil, sinister villain where in fact there is no evidence of that. When will people get sharp & spot this crap, right as it exits the pike?

Iran isn't invading anyone. Iran is a mix of religious fascism with democracy.
What it imposes on its citizens it imposes on NO ONE else.

Isn't it amazing what we will let slip past as supposed coherent speech?
I find that down right troubling,
especially when it is either intentionally or unintentionally the tool of distraction & creation of problems that don't [yet] exist.

The only even vaguely applicable thing i could come up with is China? Where the Taiwan issue is there & China might still be seen as a sort of halfway fascist state. Is he talking about Russia? Russians for whatever understandable reasons generally DO democratically support Putin, as much as we might argue or object.

Where is the big looming, aggressive threat he is implying?

Nowhere.

We are the ONLY major aggressors in sight.

He is fabricating an illusion where in fact there is virtually no substance.

I am sorry but that is simply NOT acceptable for people who are even pretending to be sane adults.

He is being irresponsible & i am calling him on it.
Maybe it is a 'short' thing.
He is in a position of power & he has to operate beyond personal ego shortcomings or delusional frames of reference.

If he is in fact a nut job he must be removed from power.

[Moby]

Obvious it was a mis-statement but that does happen even to the best speakers on occasion. I am fascinated by his mention of Italy though. They were never a real threat to the USA.

There is no doubt that the administration supporters would desire a more fascists regime then a totally free country. That's why all the talk about having one religion, declaring people as terrorists to the state if they fight for liberty against the government and so on.


The statement combined with the supporters ideals is very interesting.