Public Education In America

[Moby]

I thought the following was worthy of its own thread. You make some good points.

Of course quality is important in education. To be honest with you though, I'm not sure what can be done for America to improve in that area. I believe that what is being taught in public schools for the most part are the things necessary for a good education.

What I'm not sure about, is what's holding things back. Is it the quality of teachers? Is it the students? If I had to take a guess based on what I've seen and what I believe, I would say one of the biggest factors holding things back is probably discipline. In todays society, kids are empowered because they know that teachers are extremely limited on what they can do or say, and lets face it... If kids know they can screw off, many of them will.

I think a lot has to do with the fact that most kids have both parents working, and when they get home from school, there isn't a parent there to make them study. Understand Moby, I'm just spit-balling here.

I will tell you one thing I truly do believe in. A dress code. I believe all schools should require students to wear uniforms. What students wear is probably the biggest distraction in public schools. The clothes kids wear can cause a lot of trouble. What I mean is, it is a form of self imposed segregation. The jocks wear this, the stoner's wear that, the geeks wear something else and if you don't dress the part, you are excluded and sometimes ridiculed. I wore a school uniform at a school I attended in 4th and 5th grade, and I hated it. But I realize today, that those uniforms made everyone the same to each other and there were very few conflicts. Who we were outside of the classroom was never introduced, so it took away that distraction, so everyone got along much better and worked together well.

Anyway, what's your take on education?

[Moby]

You are correct about the lack of time kids spend studying. When compared to other countries that have higher levels of education one of the big differences is the amount of home work.

The uniform issue is interesting and I would ten to agree that cloths have become a huge issue. Now we'd need public funds to pay for those uniforms. In many parts of the country people can't afford to buy extra clothes so providing a few uniforms for each kid would be needed.

I also think that we need to beef up on science and math. When I was in high school the Catholic school kids didn't get any science and very little math. I'm told that hasn't changed much and I think the issue of religion in schools needs to stay far away from the kids and teachers.

[Moby]

What do you think about incentives in the education system? We're chomping at the bit for more H1B visas to get more math and science skills into our work force but we're doing nothing in our education system to grow for the future.

I'd love to see some tax credits for kids that get A's in tough math and science courses and maybe even a better deal for college funding if they graduate with a Masters in a science or math field.

I know that's a lot of government involvement but if it pushes our resources in the right direction then isn't it worth it?

[Krome]

We had to wear hideous brown blazers to school. I hated it. Then someone pointed out that having a school uniform gave kids a sense of 'belonging' all together. It also stopped kids being laughed at for not wearing the latest fashionable clothes as everyone looked equally stupid.

Best part was that we we all taught skills that we could use to fall back on if we were ever out of work; plumbing, secretarial skills, accounting etc.

I remember we did a school exchange with an American school. The American kids were the same age as us but I would say they were easily 3 years behind and had zero knowledge of anything outside of America. Their communication skills were the poorest I have ever seen and none of them had even a basic understanding of any other languages apart from English.

I didnt go over to America in the exchange but friends of mine that did said the American schools were easy with virtually no structured learning.

[radioguy]

Thanks for the compliment Moby.

As for the uniforms, they wouldn't have to be anything special, they just have to look the same. If parents can afford to buy regular clothes for their kids, they can buy them a few pairs of pants and a few shirts.

As for science, I'm all for them teaching as much of it as they can to the kids. However, I disagree about religion. They should teach kids the fundamentals, you know the various customs and beliefs. I think it is essential for understanding, especially when you consider we live in a country where 80% of the people have a believe in God. I also think that when they teach the theory of evolution, they should also have a chapter explaining how the various religions believe we came to be.

I'm not advocating prayer or having an actual subject dedicated to religion at all. In fact, I was thinking more along the lines of say, during a social studies class discussing various aspects of religion a few days in a school year. In other words, two or three hours a year. Like maybe having a small chapter on it, as a way to help further a better understanding of where so many in our culture are coming from. Also as it applies to history, since so much of America's history was steered by, and laws derived from, the religious beliefs of the first settlers and our founding fathers.

[Krome]

I totally agree with teaching kids about religion. We had to learn the basics of all of them so that we understood why people did things ie religious holidays. It totally breaks down racial hatred.

[radioguy]

What do you think about incentives in the education system? We're chomping at the bit for more H1B visas to get more math and science skills into our work force but we're doing nothing in our education system to grow for the future.

I'd love to see some tax credits for kids that get A's in tough math and science courses and maybe even a better deal for college funding if they graduate with a Masters in a science or math field.

I know that's a lot of government involvement but if it pushes our resources in the right direction then isn't it worth it?

I'm all for student incentives, but to what extent and how they should be applied, is something I just don't know. The tax credits idea doesn't sound too bad, but like I said, I really haven't given this matter any in depth analysis, so I'm not sure what might or might not work.

I do however believe that kids should have more vocational classed available to them in high school, covering a wider spectrum of fields. We have too many college kids taking classes to be something, only to discover a year or two down the line that they aren't cut out for it, wasn't what they thought it would be, or just discovered something better.

I mean that's what an education is all about isn't it... To give you the knowledge and know how necessary to be able to function and survive as a working adult in American society. It's all about putting bread on the table and clothes on your back, and I think more vocational classed in high school would go a long way in that area.

[Jesse Hemingway]

If education is not important to the parents then it will not be important to the child end of story. The students are not the teachers children, if education is not a priority at home then why would it become at the publicly funded day care.

I can guaranty that even in the worst school in America I mean the last school on the list if the parents have education as their child’s top priority that child will be successful with learning.
Do you really think teachers want to teach idiots? No, but if the parents do not care why should the teacher the parents should have used birth control.

Now we start understand what the true effect of dumbing down our country has it called the Wal-mart republican syndrome. A properly educated child or citizen would understand immediately that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 so it just goes to show you that rancid political system (both parties) require the idiots. An example a person on this site posted a thread “Which is more important , the Flag or the Constitution? ( 1 2) Frankg” .

Again I rest my case.:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Independent Harry]

You are correct about the lack of time kids spend studying. When compared to other countries that have higher levels of education one of the big differences is the amount of home work.

The uniform issue is interesting and I would ten to agree that cloths have become a huge issue. Now we'd need public funds to pay for those uniforms. In many parts of the country people can't afford to buy extra clothes so providing a few uniforms for each kid would be needed.

I also think that we need to beef up on science and math. When I was in high school the Catholic school kids didn't get any science and very little math. I'm told that hasn't changed much and I think the issue of religion in schools needs to stay far away from the kids and teachers.

I disagree, I went to a catholic school, (It was a Xaverian Brothers school) and the math and science we took was almost college level. I remember switching from private to public school. I had learned all the things halfway through my junior year, that we had just started in the 2nd half of my junior year in the public school.

Same thing with the grade school I went to. It was a catholic school and they prepared me for St Johns High. By getting into math and sciences.

The biggest issue today, in schools, is 1. the teachers innability to do anything, but also, in some schools, you lay a hand on a kid, he'll come back the next day and shoot you. So there's also a factor where the teachers are afraid of these kids.
2. The biggest thing is the parents. Many of the problem schools are predominately areas where there is only one parent. Dad or mom took off, no where to be found. The influences they have are the tv, music and their buddies. The only way I can think of to help that cycle, is for schools to start instilling values and ethics in every kid at a young age. Basic right and wrong reasoning and deduction. Success skills and life skills, like how to balance a checkbook, or what you need to qualify for a loan, or how you can start a business, or how to dress for success. All of those things, if they did that every year from grade 1 or even kindergarden. I think we would see a huge change in kids attitudes.

[Independent Harry]

Thanks for the compliment Moby.

As for the uniforms, they wouldn't have to be anything special, they just have to look the same. If parents can afford to buy regular clothes for their kids, they can buy them a few pairs of pants and a few shirts.

As for science, I'm all for them teaching as much of it as they can to the kids. However, I disagree about religion. They should teach kids the fundamentals, you know the various customs and beliefs. I think it is essential for understanding, especially when you consider we live in a country where 80% of the people have a believe in God. I also think that when they teach the theory of evolution, they should also have a chapter explaining how the various religions believe we came to be.

I'm not advocating prayer or having an actual subject dedicated to religion at all. In fact, I was thinking more along the lines of say, during a social studies class discussing various aspects of religion a few days in a school year. In other words, two or three hours a year. Like maybe having a small chapter on it, as a way to help further a better understanding of where so many in our culture are coming from. Also as it applies to history, since so much of America's history was steered by, and laws derived from, the religious beliefs of the first settlers and our founding fathers.

every once in a while you say something intelligent grim, we know its in there, just have to get past that programming :)

[Independent Harry]

Thanks for the compliment Moby.

As for the uniforms, they wouldn't have to be anything special, they just have to look the same. If parents can afford to buy regular clothes for their kids, they can buy them a few pairs of pants and a few shirts.

As for science, I'm all for them teaching as much of it as they can to the kids. However, I disagree about religion. They should teach kids the fundamentals, you know the various customs and beliefs. I think it is essential for understanding, especially when you consider we live in a country where 80% of the people have a believe in God. I also think that when they teach the theory of evolution, they should also have a chapter explaining how the various religions believe we came to be.

I'm not advocating prayer or having an actual subject dedicated to religion at all. In fact, I was thinking more along the lines of say, during a social studies class discussing various aspects of religion a few days in a school year. In other words, two or three hours a year. Like maybe having a small chapter on it, as a way to help further a better understanding of where so many in our culture are coming from. Also as it applies to history, since so much of America's history was steered by, and laws derived from, the religious beliefs of the first settlers and our founding fathers.

exactly, in my catholic schools I was taught about every religion. We spent time and creationist theories not just from the bible but from them all. I learned to be tolerant of other people's lives and beliefs, but most of all, I learned that there are many beliefs and you can't center on yours as the only one.

That was a great learning experience and shaped how I view the world today, you hit hte nail on the head with that one RG.

[Independent Harry]

There's one other thing I think that needs to change with schooling and this is important.

There should be two mandatory classes for students Basic math, ethics and values. From there, students should be allowed, with guidance of course, to create their own cirriuclums. Research and study on their own. Be creative, a childs life is not structure, it is everything at once, jumping from subject to subject, from topic to topic, learning about one thing being amazed by it and then running to the next thing to learn about. If you watch children, they have endless questions. We should not put them in a structured enviroment for at least the first 5 or 6 years. Let them design what htey want to learn about, let them research. They should be allowed to use their imagination and also be more involved in the creative arts. If a child just wants to learn about insects and dinosaurs and become an expert on that, let them. They will have to learn history as a biproduct of that. They will have to learn science as a bi-product of that, they will have to learn biology as a bi-product of that, and they will have to learn english, to read and evaluate as a bi-product of that. It would make learning more engaging and it would improve retention rates for kids, because now they learn what is interesting and they become engaged in it. And they learn all these sciences and math and history and english as a bi-prouduct of that.

[Moby]

I think religion is a slippery slope. Most people in America claim to believe in The Bible but don't follow the teachings in it. I would guess that maybe 10% of the nation has a belief structure strong enough to not work on Sunday and follow other basic teachings.

If the religion is taught in a way that says "Christians believe God created ..." instead of just "God created ..." then it can be OK. It also has to follow with most Americans only believe a little about any religion.

There's a great deal of prejudice and hate towards Muslims because people aren't educated in that religion and only know what they've been told by the Neocon mouthpieces so teaching the truth wouldn't hurt.

[Islam Rocks!]

I think religion is a slippery slope. Most people in America claim to believe in The Bible but don't follow the teachings in it. I would guess that maybe 10% of the nation has a belief structure strong enough to not work on Sunday and follow other basic teachings.

If the religion is taught in a way that says "Christians believe God created ..." instead of just "God created ..." then it can be OK. It also has to follow with most Americans only believe a little about any religion.

There's a great deal of prejudice and hate towards Muslims because people aren't educated in that religion and only know what they've been told by the Neocon mouthpieces so teaching the truth wouldn't hurt.
Good post SirMoby

You are right in that education resolves alot of issues and misunderstandings people have about each other.

[Jesse Hemingway]

I.Q. TEST; can you start a D-9 Caterpillar with a 9 volt battery with a cold engine and it’s 10 below zero and no diesel? If your government said you can wouldn’t any reasonable person say show me.


Our government relies on unintelligent citizens to get away with their corruption, here is an example 9/11 was an I.Q. test held on America. A greater amount of energy was released when the WTC collapsed then was stored by potential energy in the structure and the jet fuel on the planes.

The potential energy stored in the structures is weight and distance from the ground a total function of gravity along with a vertical vector function.
The energy in jet fuel is related to combustion it increases only when applying more pressure or oxygen to maximizes it’s potential (that is also addtional energy), at one atmosphere of pressure and in ambient environment then the lowest value of potential energy is released from jet fuel.

The I.Q. test begins when we all witnessed a greater release of energy then what was stored by those to sources. The only way to pass the I.Q. test is to say prove it show me how on September 11, 2001 in New York City the most basic laws of physical science was violated.

Very simple question many people have asked yet no answers that is the real I.Q. test.There is only one simple question prove your math please. The popular mechanics article only attempts to answer the potential energy released by structural failure caused by heat which may have caused a collapse and would have only accounted for the vaule of potential stored in the structure and the jet fuel.

Example: If I climbed 10 foot ladder with a bowling ball the potential energy is my mechanical energy used to climb the ladder that is now stored in the bowling ball once I drop the ball that stored energy is released as the ball falls to the ground end of stored energy. Now if I throw the ball horizontally I have to add additional mechanical energy to make the ball travel away from me. So let’s say I use value of 10 to represent the energy to get the ball to the top of the ladder once I drop it that value of 10 is released. If I throw the bowling ball I have to add additional energy in the form on mechanical energy the farther I throw it the more mechanical energy I have to add.

When I watch this video below then I have calculate where did the additional energy come from to pulverize the concrete, to send massive pieces of steel and concrete on a horizontal trajectory many hundreds of yards out from the buildings, and the many thousands of pound of pulverized particles in the opposite direction upward that is what most people would like answered show us your math.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=911+Eyewitness+-+VO+ST+FR

[Cat slave]

I think the antiquated method of public schooling should be drug screaming into
the 21st century. Why are we still doing it the way it was done since settler
times??

Why are we pouring tax money into the coffers of the teachers unions which
are just short of organized crime perps? Why not see that every kid has a laptop,
internet access only to educational sites where a lesser number of teachers
"teach" from testing centers where the kids have to come in periodically to
see that they are absorbing the lessons sent through cyberspace. Look at
the money that would be saved. No buses
to haul the kids out of their
neighborhoods, much fewer buildings since there would not be the need for
hauling kids in for x number of hours a day, no bus upkeep, no bus drivers
(maybe a few to haul in the kids for their visits to the regional testing centers),
less cost for insurance and benefits, no need for police presents in schools
to break up fights, no more school shootings, no places for kids to come together and get into devilment.

A teacher would cry "but what about socialization"? Well, there are neighbor
hoods, siblings, churches, community center activities, sports and on and on.

Why are we not changing with the times? Why are we being blackmailed with
the ever present cry of "need more money for education"? Well, my idea is
to streamline the process and cut the cost.

[Cat slave]

Oh, and with regard to "religion" my theory would see that it was in the hands
of the parents.....or not!