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indago
11-13-2011, 09:11 AM
Barrie Barber wrote for The Saginaw News 11 November 2011:
Sen. Roger N. Kahn, R-Saginaw Township, rolled out the legislation to have children in grades K-12 recite the pledge daily in their classrooms, part of a series of pro-American legislative measures the lawmaker has backed. ...The Republican-dominated state Senate passed legislation Thursday in a 31-5 vote that would require students to recite the pledge

article (http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2011/11/say_the_pledge_of_allegiance_i.html)

The legislation now moves to the House. I sent this in an Email to our area Representative:

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When little kids are out on the playground, playing on the swings and Jungle Jim, and the slide, they line up to get a turn to go down the slide. First, Josie goes up the ladder, the other kids watching, and when she sits down on top, and wriggles forward to begin her trip down the slide, Jimmy begins his ascent up the ladder for his turn down the slide. This is the way the teacher showed them so that they will all get their turn on the slide. They know that it's not fair for someone to "butt in" the line out of turn, ahead of someone else. They shout: "Hey, no fair". That's just the way they do it. It's the way they all learned that this is the way it's done. And when the teacher blows the whistle, they know that recess is over, and that it is time to go back into the classroom. The teacher said she doesn't want everyone trying to get in the door at the same time, so they have to line up to get in the door. That's the way it's done. Early in the mornings, the teacher says its time to all stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. They all know what to do. They all stand together, and put their hand over their heart, and follow along with the teacher. Little Troy knows all the words now, and can say all of them, one right after the other without stumbling. Some still look over at others to see if they are doing it right, smiling self-consciously, but they are doing it all together, happy with their joint efforts with their classmates. They don't know exactly what they are saying, or why. They do it because it is a class project that the teacher showed them, and they are happy to participate, contributing their voice to the whole.

As they grow older, they move from the smaller grades to high school, and when it is time to say the pledge of allegiance, they know the words, and what to do. I still remember the words: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America; and to the Republic for which it stands; One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

It was all so simple back when we were kids. We just got up from the chair, and stood up and put our hand over our heart and said the words. Many still say the words without thinking. All around are up on their feet saying the words. It is much like a favorite hymn in church, or The Lord's Prayer.

There are many in this country who don't know The Lord's Prayer. They have learned differently about a God, and recite their own words that they have learned as a child. Their religious beliefs are quite different from those of the majority in this country. Some say that the minority must adapt to the ways of the majority. In Ireland, the Catholics and Protestants are still at war with each other. In the Middle East, the Muslims and Jews are at war with each other. Religious Intolerance has been a bane of many societies, and continues. So what's the answer??? TOLERANCE!!! Nobody is just like somebody else. We all differ. What is accomplished by getting mad at somebody because he is different? And because another is different, are we going to make him change to conform to our views? How are we going to do that?

At sporting events, and patriotic gatherings, people rise up at the announcement of the pledge of allegiance, and recite, by rote, the familiar incantations. Some have examined into the history of this country, and religions, and see things differently than most. I have studied our history, and realize that this country was not founded on the principles of subservience to a king, such subservience being rejected in the flight from Britain to the shores of America. The terms "sovereign", and "subject" were rejected in our society, in favor of the hierarchical arrangement as delineated in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, which shows that the people retain all of the powers not granted to a State, or the States creation, the United States. We rejected the notion: "Hail to the King." Why should we now embrace: "Hail to the United States"?

The term "allegiance" is described in the Webster Dictionary: "The tie or obligation of a subject to his sovereign or government; the duty of fidelity to a king, government, or state."

Considering the term allegiance, and the hierarchical relationship between the people, the State, and the federal government, as recorded in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, the pledge of allegiance to the flag, and to the United States, should be abolished. All who work for government should be required, every morning, to pledge their allegiance to the people whom they serve; and to reaffirm their oath to uphold the Constitution. This would be a daily reminder of their status, and their servile position. It is predictable that their attitude would change.
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tutonic
11-13-2011, 09:22 AM
Compulsory pledges are torture, an insidious form of enhanced interrogation technique. Garbage in-garbage out.

You will feel a sense of community, offer fealty and acknowledge subservience to your country and deity, damn you! Say it, say it !, you 10 year old!" "Say it over and over, internalize it." "OK, have you said it 10,000 times?" "Good, here is a gun."

Fulltimer
11-13-2011, 10:15 AM
It is an instruction in subordination, the unquestioned acceptance of authority that we apparently wish to instill in our children at an early age.

In Texas all schoolchildren are required to daily stand and swear to allegiance to the national flag and then to the state flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

And then:

Honor the Texas flag;
I pledge allegiance to thee,
Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.

So which is it that the young child is being compelled to swear his allegiance to?

Down in Texas the sponsor of the bill that forces the Texas children to recite the pledge, Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth, said in support of the legislation:
" the habits we form as children are crucial to moral and political development. If you want children to love country and state, teach them to honor their flags."

So the goal is to make the next generation accept the decrees handed down from the Federal and State governments without question because they learned patriotism just as they learned the multiplication tables---by rote.



.

Mr, gone
11-13-2011, 10:21 AM
"I mistrust all systematizers and avoid them. The will to a system is a lack of integrity." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Udo Dirkschneider
11-13-2011, 11:10 AM
You're not going to find many patriots here, voluntarily or otherwise.

serum114
11-13-2011, 11:36 AM
The pledge has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with nationalism. Pledges are for serfs and children.


Q2BfqDUPL1I

Bill Cosby
11-13-2011, 01:20 PM
The pledge has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with nationalism. Pledges are for serfs and children.


Q2BfqDUPL1I

Ding Ding!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hawkeye2j
11-13-2011, 02:30 PM
Only the weak minded make pledges. Not to mention the fact the pledge of allegiance is a lie. This nation does not strive for justice for all. It strives for justice for the rich.

Mr, gone
11-13-2011, 07:42 PM
Only the weak minded make pledges. Not to mention the fact the pledge of allegiance is a lie. This nation does not strive for justice for all. It strives for justice for the rich.

This nation no longer stands for a republic either. Sad...:(

mrmeangenes
11-14-2011, 12:03 AM
Ho------------------------kay !

When we've finished trashing the Pledge, let's move on to the Bill of Rights; get rid of all that archaic verbiage. Then we can start on the Constitution : make it more responsive to the needs of our fashionably oriented Elite...

serum114
11-14-2011, 12:23 AM
http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm

Telos
11-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Ho------------------------kay !

When we've finished trashing the Pledge, let's move on to the Bill of Rights; get rid of all that archaic verbiage. Then we can start on the Constitution : make it more responsive to the needs of our fashionably oriented Elite...


The pledge needs to be dumped, plain and simple. The better choice would be to start the young ones studying the Bill of Rights, preparing them to be citizens, not consumers for the Republican utopia for wage slaves....

Bill Cosby
11-14-2011, 12:30 AM
Only the weak minded make pledges. Not to mention the fact the pledge of allegiance is a lie. This nation does not strive for justice for all. It strives for justice for the rich.


SOUR GRAPES- if you were a 1%er you wouldn't say that :mad:



:o

Hawkeye2j
11-14-2011, 12:35 AM
SOUR GRAPES- if you were a 1%er you wouldn't say that :mad:



:o
:lmao2: :lmao2:

Mr, gone
11-14-2011, 06:14 AM
The government clown and the passive sheep which feed off it's tainted tit.:D

3172

Moby
11-14-2011, 03:30 PM
If the GOP was interested in following the Constitution and protecting our freedoms, than why do they want Americans to take a Socialist Pledge the defies the will of our Constitution's creators?

indago
11-16-2011, 08:24 AM
It is an instruction in subordination, the unquestioned acceptance of authority that we apparently wish to instill in our children at an early age. ...So the goal is to make the next generation accept the decrees handed down from the Federal and State governments without question

Especially since government was the enabler of our RACE TO THE BOTTOM:

Senate Free Trade (http://indagoworld.blogspot.com/2010/05/free-trade-senate.html)

House Free Trade (http://indagoworld.blogspot.com/2010/05/free-trade-house.html)


Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, (Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999–2001). It repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933, removing barriers in the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies that prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and an insurance company.

article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm–Leach–Bliley_Act)

Repeal Glass/Steagall 1 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00354)

Repeal Glass/Steagall 2 (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll570.xml)

http://lerevdr.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

"Sieg Heil"

indago
11-20-2011, 05:35 PM
"One Nation, under God"

"under God": added during the era of the McCarthy hearings.

Now, why would we want to be continually reminded of the McCarthy hearings with the "under God" designation in a pledge of allegiance? That period was a dastardly stain on our history. It should be removed from the pledge. Actually, the whole pledge of allegiance should be eliminated.

ksec
11-20-2011, 05:37 PM
Republicans wasting time with fluff legislation and ignoring their promises to create jobs.

Do nothing GOP ..same as it ever was.

Darmosiel
11-20-2011, 06:30 PM
Only the weak minded make pledges. Not to mention the fact the pledge of allegiance is a lie. This nation does not strive for justice for all. It strives for justice for the rich.

I pledged to the flag when I was little but my child's mind believed it stood for something. The flag is a symbol which is supposed to stand for liberty and justice for all. I don't believe it does any more. Hopefully, one day it will again.

Bill Cosby
11-20-2011, 07:51 PM
I pledged to the flag when I was little but my child's mind believed it stood for something. The flag is a symbol which is supposed to stand for liberty and justice for all. I don't believe it does any more. Hopefully, one day it will again.

When I was in school everyone had to do it, recite the words totally not knowing nor caring what they meant...........

serum114
11-20-2011, 08:08 PM
When I was in school everyone had to do it, recite the words totally not knowing nor caring what they meant...........

My experience was a bit different in my kindergarten class there was a Hispanic boy that wasn't a citizen the teacher pointed out he wasn't as good as the rest of us and made him stand in the corner every morning during flag pledge. None of us new what we were doing at that time, we just repeated the words. By the time we got to fourth grade a friend and I were saying it double speed and we ended up getting pulled into the back room and were ruffed up a bit for disrespecting the flag, the country, or maybe Nixon who knows fascists will be fascists. :lmao2: :lmao2: